Football Manager Past Its Peak?

Was FM08 the real peak of the Football Manager series? Can S.I ever bring such an awesome edition along again? Or has 3D overshadowed everything that can be and was good about Football Manager?

I didnt buy FM2009 and I didnt buy FM2010 and I wont be buying FM2011 unless there are some serious changes to this database point and click game. Basically as long as the 3D match engine is around, My wallet wont be.

Of course some will say but the 3D view is just a wrapper around an already great Match Engine. I laugh at these points because if you cannot see with your own eyes how this 3D nonsense has compromised the match engine code, well I dont think you should be an armchair manager to begin with.

I will stick with FM08 for the foreseeable future, the greatest FM game around. I will leave the new buggy and flawed editions to the rest of you.

Football Manager has become about Quantity not Quality. Its bored me now.

Thanks for that, i'll pass your message on to the head of Sega and we'll get the game discontiuned.

It could be for the best. As it stands the idea of a major change seems to be 'Lets mess about with the user interface so it all looks new and confuses everyone" and it just aint good enough anymore.

Why are we being lead down a path where you have to rebuy the game every year when there could be yearly updates. Every year feels like an add-on pack and thats what it should be, for far less money too.

This could possibly be the best version of FM ever, so I disagree. High scoring strikers aside I think it excellent and there is still far more room for improvement with player interaction.

FM08 was definitely not the peak of FM series. I would say either 07 (at the time of the release) and 10 were the peaks.

Was FM08 the real peak of the Football Manager series? Can S.I ever bring such an awesome edition along again? Or has 3D overshadowed everything that can be and was good about Football Manager?

I didnt buy FM2009 and I didnt buy FM2010 and I wont be buying FM2011 unless there are some serious changes to this database point and click game. Basically as long as the 3D match engine is around, My wallet wont be.

Of course some will say but the 3D view is just a wrapper around an already great Match Engine. I laugh at these points because if you cannot see with your own eyes how this 3D nonsense has compromised the match engine code, well I dont think you should be an armchair manager to begin with.

I will stick with FM08 for the foreseeable future, the greatest FM game around. I will leave the new buggy and flawed editions to the rest of you.

Football Manager has become about Quantity not Quality. Its bored me now.

There are so many things wrong with this post! So many things.

Let's just take this step by step:

I will stick with FM08 for the foreseeable future, the greatest FM game around. I will leave the new buggy and flawed editions to the rest of you.

You may never have noticed this, but Football Manager 2008 was one of the most bug riddled version in recent times. I had great fun on it, but the game had some serious problems. I mean... Serious problems. Just look up the threads from that time. Back then people were going on about the buggy as [removed] FM 2008 and how FM 2007 was the way to be.

Of course some will say but the 3D view is just a wrapper around an already great Match Engine. I laugh at these points because if you cannot see with your own eyes how this 3D nonsense has compromised the match engine code, well I dont think you should be an armchair manager to begin with.

What the fail?!

Seriously, are people really that thick on here that they can't understand simple English. How on earth has it "compromised the match engine code"? It is seriously, a wrapper. It's the same damn engine, just with a newer way of viewing it. Then again, it's always the way around here. Something changes, so some random twits (a vast minority usually) come up with strange ideas on how anything they think is wrong (for whatever reason) must be because of the big glaring new feature. Bugger it, if you could write the drivel in the first post I doubt you'll understand anything more I have to say on this matter.

I didnt buy FM2009 and I didnt buy FM2010 and I wont be buying FM2011 unless there are some serious changes to this database point and click game. Basically as long as the 3D match engine is around, My wallet wont be.

This is honestly the best part of it all!

Not only are you arguing that what was considered by many as one of the worse Football Managers of recent times was "the best", but you also say that you haven't played the last two! What the hell is that? Who are you to complain if you haven't played them?! What the hell?!

Then you cap it all off by saying that it's the 3D match engine that's the problem? What the hell?! It's changed nothing, don't you get it? NOTHING! What do you think it's actually changed?

If FM is past its peak, then it wasn't FM08, it was FM07.

Having 3D in may have lead to minor problems with the ME code (time spent coding things to show up in 3D) but it won't have had major ones, as animations etc. are done by other people.

If you havn't bought the games how can you judge. Seriously you should at least give games a go before you judge them, instead of judging a book by it's front cover.

He may well have tried the demo. Is it fair to judge a book by the first half?

Also I think that FM10 is just as good as the best FM before 07 if not as good.

It could possibly be the best after another 4 or 5 patches no doubt. But this 'Ship it now, Patch it later' isnt good enough either. When I buy a retail game I dont expect to have to have the internet to be able to play it. If SI want to just distribute it online only, then fair enough, it would be logical to assume all their customers had the internet then.

Will SI send out a patch CD in the post free of charge for all those who bought the retail FM2010? Why should I have to get an internet connection to be able to get my game fixed?

If FM is past its peak, then it wasn't FM08, it was FM07.

Having 3D in may have lead to minor problems with the ME code (time spent coding things to show up in 3D) but it won't have had major ones, as animations etc. are done by other people.

This.

It could be for the best. As it stands the idea of a major change seems to be 'Lets mess about with the user interface so it all looks new and confuses everyone" and it just aint good enough anymore.

You slate them for not making a 'major change' but when they do (3D ME) - you shun it.

It could be for the best. As it stands the idea of a major change seems to be 'Lets mess about with the user interface so it all looks new and confuses everyone" and it just aint good enough anymore.

Why are we being lead down a path where you have to rebuy the game every year when there could be yearly updates. Every year feels like an add-on pack and thats what it should be, for far less money too.

...again, what?!

Mess about with the user interface? You mean, the new interface?

What's wrong with it, it's better than the old ones!

If it confuses you I suggest you get some serious help!

He may well have tried the demo. Is it fair to judge a book by the first half?

Well if he tried the demo then he missed out on patches and probably didn't get time long enough. I never like any game when I first play it because I don't like change. I get used to it within a week though and grow to love it. You don't play a demo and spend a few hours/days on it.

If you havn't bought the games how can you judge. Seriously you should at least give games a go before you judge them, instead of judging a book by it's front cover.

I played the Demo's, Didnt float my boat. And patches are a sad excuse. I shouldnt have to patch a game to be able to play it properly.

And to the guy who insists its the same exact match engine, Explain how does Manager Orders during a match work then? You might wanna do a spot of name calling, but its pot calling the kettle black. You clearly have no idea what you talk about.

It could possibly be the best after another 4 or 5 patches no doubt. But this 'Ship it now, Patch it later' isnt good enough either. When I buy a retail game I dont expect to have to have the internet to be able to play it. If SI want to just distribute it online, then fair enough, it would be logical to assume all their customers had the internet then.

Will SI send out a patch CD in the post free of charge for all those who bought the retail FM2010? Why should I have to get an internet connection to be able to get my game fixed?

As you're posting on this forum right now, I'll assume you have the internet...

Anyhow, in truth I think the unpatched FM 2010 is better than the fully patched FM 2008 was.

I played the Demo's, Didnt float my boat. And patches are a sad excuse. I shouldnt have to patch a game to be able to play it properly.

And to the guy who insists its the same exact match engine, Explain how does Manager Orders during a match work then? You might wanna do a spot of name calling, but its pot calling the kettle black. You clearly have no idea what you talk about.

What?

What are you talking about, that's the most confusing thing I've read today...

Wait, you mean the shouts and such? They're a new addition with no link to the 3D match view. That's a change to the engine mate, and completely independant of the 3D view.

As you're posting on this forum right now, I'll assume you have the internet...

Anyhow, in truth I think the unpatched FM 2010 is better than the fully patched FM 2008 was.

Yes I am posting on the forums now, and yes I do have an internet connection. But as always you miss the point, Why should I have to download a patch 3 times a year, every single year. Whatever happened to workmanship and quality control? Did those departments get the axe during the recession?

Every game developer in the world does this now, Release an unfinished game six months early because hey we can patch it.

How about you make a damn game that is broken to begin with. Goes back to my argument that SI should take a year off and spend that extra time making FM2012 as great and as bug free as possible. After years and years of patching, its got to be clear more testing time is needed by now.

That's a change to the engine mate, and completely independant of the 3D view.

Thats exactly what I am saying, Its a Match Engine CHANGE thus the match engine cannot possibley be exactly the same as previous editions.

Did I miss something?

FM08 is the only version I sold after a few months to go back to the previous version, so I'd say it was quite far from the peak of the series. FM10 with better regens would be the best game SI have ever made. As it is, I'll go with 07 when fully patched.

Football Manager Past Its Peak?

I disagree. Even if I thought 08 or 07 were better than 10; why would it be past its peak? They can never make a better game than 08? Ever?

Thats exactly what I am saying, Its a Match Engine CHANGE thus the match engine cannot possibley be exactly the same as previous editions.

Did I miss something?

The change wasn't made due to 3D though. It's progression which would probably have happened with 3D or without it.

Yes I am posting on the forums now, and yes I do have an internet connection. But as always you miss the point, Why should I have to download a patch 3 times a year, every single year. Whatever happened to workmanship and quality control? Did those departments get the axe during the recession?

Every game developer in the world does this now, Release an unfinished game six months early because hey we can patch it.

How about you make a damn game that is broken to begin with. Goes back to my argument that SI should take a year off and spend that extra time making FM2012 as great and as bug free as possible. After years and years of patching, its got to be clear more testing time is needed by now.

Well, there are a couple issues here. The company pretty much has to release the game once a year at the right time. They also have to make improvements which is something you are calling for. Every change leads to potential bugs and as such everything they improve could cause problems.

It's a lot harder than you'd think to iron these all out, especially in a game like football manager. Especially with the small and rarer bugs. Compare the number of people testing the game to the number that will play it, there will ultimately be issues that aren't spotted. In truth I've played all the football manager games in recent times from the start and I haven't once had my game ruined because of something that has been patched. Really, you have to think about the numbers here. The game is far from unplayable (as in the older ones, especially FM 2008) without the patches, but that doesn't mean that there aren't going to be issues.

It seriously just seems like you've come here to pick a fight and are therefore making the most rediculous claims you can.

The fact you're hailing FM 2008 does give that away slightly.

In my pecking order over the last few years:

FM 2007

FM 2010

FM 2009

...

FM 2008

Thats exactly what I am saying, Its a Match Engine CHANGE thus the match engine cannot possibley be exactly the same as previous editions.

Did I miss something?

...the part where you were complaining about the 3D view and not the shouts originally..?

FM might be past its peak, but the future belongs to FM Live. Seriously.

I disagree. Even if I thought 08 or 07 were better than 10; why would it be past its peak. They can never make a better game than 08? Ever?

The change wasn't made due to 3D though. It's progression which would probably have happened with 3D or without it.

Shouting Orders and 3D Match Engines are gimmicks that just degrade whats under the bonnet, How many times have we been here before? It seriously compromises the parameters that the game is required to use.

3D Match Engines with Football Manager games have always been a very flawed affair, and its the same here. Just look at some of the goals scored nowadays, seriously WTF.

Of course some will say but the 3D view is just a wrapper around an already great Match Engine. I laugh at these points because if you cannot see with your own eyes how this 3D nonsense has compromised the match engine code, well I dont think you should be an armchair manager to begin with.

spot on

Shouting Orders and 3D Match Engines are gimmicks that just degrade whats under the bonnet, How many times have we been here before? It seriously compromises the parameters that the game is required to use.

3D Match Engines with Football Manager games have always been a very flawed affair, and its the same here. Just look at some of the goals scored nowadays, seriously WTF.

What?!

You really are one of those people that finds something that slightly annoys them. Then decides it must be because of something new and different. Then comes up with some strange demented reason why...

Seriously this is the biggest load of drivel I've seen on here in a while!

Shouting Orders and 3D Match Engines are gimmicks

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Shouts are a more than helpful addition this year. The 3D engine is not to everyone's taste, but I don't really see why not. 3D > 2D.

Shouting Orders and 3D Match Engines are gimmicks that just degrade whats under the bonnet, How many times have we been here before? It seriously compromises the parameters that the game is required to use.

shouting oreders are nothing more than slider changes. what's your point here, I really don't understand?

Just look at some of the goals scored nowadays, seriously WTF.

what do you meen?

Simple really, if you hate 2009 and 2010 then fair enough go play 2008. It does not affect you playing 2008, and 2008 was riddled with errors.

What?!

You really are one of those people that finds something that slightly annoys them. Then decides it must be because of something new and different. Then comes up with some strange demented reason why...

Seriously this is the biggest load of drivel I've seen on here in a while!

Are you some guy who just blindly wants to believe that 3D is working? When there is numerous evidence to suggest otherwise?

Simple really, if you hate 2009 and 2010 then fair enough go play 2008. It does not affect you playing 2008, and 2008 was riddled with errors.

What errors is 2008 riddles with?

Was FM08 the real peak of the Football Manager series? Can S.I ever bring such an awesome edition along again? Or has 3D overshadowed everything that can be and was good about Football Manager?

I didnt buy FM2009 and I didnt buy FM2010 and I wont be buying FM2011 unless there are some serious changes to this database point and click game. Basically as long as the 3D match engine is around, My wallet wont be.

Of course some will say but the 3D view is just a wrapper around an already great Match Engine. I laugh at these points because if you cannot see with your own eyes how this 3D nonsense has compromised the match engine code, well I dont think you should be an armchair manager to begin with.

I will stick with FM08 for the foreseeable future, the greatest FM game around. I will leave the new buggy and flawed editions to the rest of you.

Football Manager has become about Quantity not Quality. Its bored me now.

if your going to leave us and think the game is rubbish without even trying it just go instead of making a thread about it

if your going to leave us and think the game is rubbish without even trying it just go instead of making a thread about it

Who said I didnt try it?

Are you some guy who just blindly wants to believe that 3D is working? When there is numerous evidence to suggest otherwise?

I'll ignore how terribly that is worded for now...

Well I am Some Guy!

What evidence mate, still haven't seen it myself apparently.

Are you some guy who just blindly wants to believe that 3D is working? When there is numerous evidence to suggest otherwise?

Your numerous evidence of never owning a game with the 3D view.

Jog on mate.

Who said I didnt try it?

Didn't try the full version.

I'm fairly sure that the numerous season I've played on FM 2009 and FM 2010 should give me a better idea of what is broken and what isn't with the game than your half arsed attempt on a demo.

Its all completely subjective. I was at the FML mod day last week and had a similar discussion around 'best versions' most were adamant this is the best game they've ever done. However obviously people have their previous favourites (CM01/02 being the biggest of those)

Someone was even adamant their favourite was CM4 (Arguably the most buggiest version they've ever released) None of the bugs in this current version are game breaking (in my opinion) which are directly caused by the game. Frankly I haven't noticed any major issues at all.

I'll ignore how terribly that is worded for now...

Well I am Some Guy!

What evidence mate, still haven't seen it myself apparently.

Didn't try the full version.

I'm fairly sure that the numerous season I've played on FM 2009 and FM 2010 should give me a better idea of what is broken and what isn't with the game than your half arsed attempt on a demo.

Well I did play FM09 quite a bit, but that one was seriously flawed. The Match Engine took ages to load too. You cant tell me nothing about FM09. Just cause I didnt buy that one doesnt mean I didnt play it.

As for FM2010, there is enough evidence around these forums to suggest fundemental issues have not been dealt with. The match engine being one of them. Sure it loads quicker and smoother now, but the damage as already been done.

Next your gonna try telling me that player interaction is not linked with player personality. Dont make me laugh mate.

Have you ever thought it was issues with your side (computer)?

I'll assure you that when FM08 was released the forum was full of threads about issues. Its all the same with new games, there always will be flaws that some can be fixed and some cannot be fixed.

Well I did play FM09 quite a bit, but that one was seriously flawed. The Match Engine took ages to load too. You cant tell me nothing about FM09. Just cause I didnt buy that one doesnt mean I didnt play it.

As for FM2010, there is enough evidence around these forums to suggest fundemental issues have not been dealt with. The match engine being one of them. Sure it loads quicker and smoother now, but the damage as already been done.

Next your gonna try telling me that player interaction is not linked with player personality. Dont make me laugh mate.

Are you admitting to illegally playing the game now? Or are you admitting to playing an unfinished FM09 demo not even in the final build of the game?

FM08 was possibly the worst version of the game imo. Close run thing between that and FM06.

http://tinyurl.com/kupth6

I played the Demo's, Didnt float my boat. And patches are a sad excuse. I shouldnt have to patch a game to be able to play it properly.

And to the guy who insists its the same exact match engine, Explain how does Manager Orders during a match work then? You might wanna do a spot of name calling, but its pot calling the kettle black. You clearly have no idea what you talk about.

Shouts are just ways of saving time. Instead of adjusting two or three sliders, you only need one shout.

The fact you're hailing FM 2008 does give that away slightly.

In my pecking order over the last few years:

FM 2007

FM 2010

FM 2009

...

FM 2008

I roughly agree with that. In general, FM10's ME is better than 09, but the big bugs are more frequent. Defenders letting the ball deflect in off their ankles from corners, terrible goalkeepers, the like.

Shouting Orders and 3D Match Engines are gimmicks that just degrade whats under the bonnet, How many times have we been here before? It seriously compromises the parameters that the game is required to use.

3D Match Engines with Football Manager games have always been a very flawed affair, and its the same here. Just look at some of the goals scored nowadays, seriously WTF.

The 3D ME does not cause these goals, complicated changes to the code have.

In order for the game to become more realistic, I think PaulC and his team had to try some things that would take a lot of experimentation to get right. They haven't perfected those things yet, but when they do, the ME will be as good as, if not better, than FM07's.

Its all completely subjective. I was at the FML mod day last week and had a similar discussion around 'best versions' most were adamant this is the best game they've ever done. However obviously people have their previous favourites (CM01/02 being the biggest of those)

Someone was even adamant their favourite was CM4 (Arguably the most buggiest version they've ever released) None of the bugs in this current version are game breaking (in my opinion) which are directly caused by the game. Frankly I haven't noticed any major issues at all.

I think that's a pretty good summary.

Are you admitting to illegally playing the game now? Or are you admitting to playing an unfinished FM09 demo not even in the final build of the game?

Are you making ill informed presumptions there? Although technically the act of borrowing and lending from a friend is illegal. Apparently, Thou shall not share is the corporate way forward.

Well I did play FM09 quite a bit, but that one was seriously flawed. The Match Engine took ages to load too. You cant tell me nothing about FM09. Just cause I didnt buy that one doesnt mean I didnt play it.

As for FM2010, there is enough evidence around these forums to suggest fundemental issues have not been dealt with. The match engine being one of them. Sure it loads quicker and smoother now, but the damage as already been done.

Next your gonna try telling me that player interaction is not linked with player personality. Dont make me laugh mate.

So how did you play it?

Piracy?

FM 2009 was far better from the start than FM 2008.

What evidence?

Give us something, this is just becoming a farce now!

Its all completely subjective. I was at the FML mod day last week and had a similar discussion around 'best versions' most were adamant this is the best game they've ever done. However obviously people have their previous favourites (CM01/02 being the biggest of those)

Someone was even adamant their favourite was CM4 (Arguably the most buggiest version they've ever released) None of the bugs in this current version are game breaking (in my opinion) which are directly caused by the game. Frankly I haven't noticed any major issues at all.

Sums it up perfectly for me.

So how did you play it?

Piracy?

FM 2009 was far better from the start than FM 2008.

What evidence?

Give us something, this is just becoming a farce now!

I played it on my PC. How did you play it?

Lending is not actually piracy, although as I say technically it infirnges upon IP. Same applies to your DVD films, its illegal to lend them to your brother.

You talk of evidence yet fail to give any when you claim FM09 is better than FM08. Give some reasons why. Is it the absurd press conferences that do it for you? Or maybe the absurd moments of goalkeeping captured your eye, Or was it that weird looking 3D match engine that really floated your boat?

Im curious.

FM probably won't peak for another 15 - 20 years when they are finally able to get so much done to such a high standard, that the game we play now will be barely recognisable.

I thought only one was allowed to be installed on one machine?

FM08 is the best? And I thought that it's one of the worst FM ever(FM09 is the worst IMO)...

Sorry, but dont use any digital devices that have OS on it if you dont like patches..