Can someone explain this to me because it has me baffled!!

Beat Liverpool 4-2 in extra time in the League Cup but lo and behold the changing scores bug comes into play and I apparently lose 4-2 (yes, it's the updated patch!)

Anyway rather than quite throw the disc out of the window in my mind I put it down as a floodlight failure, that kind of makes me more comfortable at playing the fixture again after reloading.

Now the same team I put out as does Liverpool and i replicate my substitutions at the same time of the match, yet I have played two matches (yes reloaded twice) and have lost twice. Everything is as identical as it could be, except for my centre backs parting like the Red Sea as Steven Gerard runs unopposed (despite Scott Parker man marking him) twice to score two sitters!!

Now defending, closing down, man marking bugs aside how does the ME work out who wins? How can I win the first time but not the next two despite everything being the same?

I just cannot work it out............

If you’re having a good run, too good for the AI, you will eventually lose one whatever you do at some point (used to manage OM, had 1.5 season without defeat (and without reloading when losing) in the league and finally lost one 4 or 5 -0 (can’t remember) against an awful side just before a CL match. Couldn’t be more pi.. off as my players had a 4.0 or 4.5 during that game using the usual tactic, no new instructions nor player. Cope with or reload the game as long as you lose. The AI is probably told to “help” your team lose one from time to time just to keep a small amount of interest to the game.

This is actually probably the one part of the game that i can appreciate, no two games are ever the same IRL and as is "usually" the case with FM(although i have seen exceptions)

The way i see it is that the first game in which you won 4-2 when the game was calculated you may have been given a large "luck" boost(for instance, god knows how it works?) this will be a one off like Burnley beating Utd it wont happen very often.

I feel your frustration of course and would replay the game in this instance until i was satisfied with the end result.

How are you doing with the Hammers BTW? i cannot get away with playing as West Ham and have given up trying(at least for now)

The AI is probably told to “help” your team lose one from time to time just to keep a small amount of interest to the game.

It's told to do nothing of the sort. Why does this hypothesis keep regenerating?

Unless you coded the ME engine I doubt you really know how it truly works either.

This is actually probably the one part of the game that i can appreciate, no two games are ever the same IRL and as is "usually" the case with FM(although i have seen exceptions)

The way i see it is that the first game in which you won 4-2 when the game was calculated you may have been given a large "luck" boost(for instance, god knows how it works?) this will be a one off like Burnley beating Utd it wont happen very often.

I feel your frustration of course and would replay the game in this instance until i was satisfied with the end result.

How are you doing with the Hammers BTW? i cannot get away with playing as West Ham and have given up trying(at least for now)

Not too well. Tried my old tactics,, rubbish, tried new tactics,,, rubbish... tried a new 4-4-2 and beat Man Utd, then thought I was getting somewhere by beating Liverpool but that poxy bug ruined that!!

Just played that game yet again and lost 2-0. Had Gerrard on man marking, tight marking, show onto wrong foot and close down. He blasts one in from distance "with his good foot" after 3 minutes and lands another 10 minutes later, again with his good foot!!!

There really is no point whasoever in instructing your players to do anything in this game....

Not too well. Tried my old tactics,, rubbish, tried new tactics,,, rubbish... tried a new 4-4-2 and beat Man Utd, then thought I was getting somewhere by beating Liverpool but that poxy bug ruined that!!

Just played that game yet again and lost 2-0. Had Gerrard on man marking, tight marking, show onto wrong foot and close down. He blasts one in from distance "with his good foot" after 3 minutes and lands another 10 minutes later, again with his good foot!!!

There really is no point whasoever in instructing your players to do anything in this game....

Thats how i feel mate utter waste of time.

The tactical side of the game is beyond me and from the impression i get i'm one of many.

Ive never understood this at all. The match engine is surely just a mathmatical forumla, and if all the variables are the same then there shouldnt be any change in the way the game pans out. That is of course there is some sort of random generator applied for specific events, which then implies our tactics, nor our actual dont really have the ultimate control over the outcome of the match, and that we merely succumb to whatever random event is thrown at us. Intriguing either way.

Ive never understood this at all. The match engine is surely just a mathmatical forumla, and if all the variables are the same then there shouldnt be any change in the way the game pans out. That is of course there is some sort of random generator applied for specific events, which then implies our tactics, nor our actual dont really have the ultimate control over the outcome of the match, and that we merely succumb to whatever random event is thrown at us. Intriguing either way.

Exactly... It's not like I played Liverpool one week and then again the next, I can imagine things like confidence, form, determination, weather etc all come into play. This has been the same match reloaded with "everything" the same but I won the first and got beat the next three all with different scorelines.

It's like religion. If you don't understand something, make up an explanation yourself and tell everyone about it

There's also a lot of random factors in the ME. Sounds like you got the rub of the green first time round.

But since you won the first, I'd do exactly the same and reload until I won. Have you tried holidaying to get past the game? Just go a day hols and reload til you get the result right.

Ooooops wrong thread

Elmo, I'd hazard a guess that the formula for how a match plays out is chaotic: a slight variation early on could completely change the course of the game. (And there are endless such variations: bear in mind that both you and the AI manager can use touchline shouts.)

Elmo, I'd hazard a guess that the formula for how a match plays out is chaotic: a slight variation early on could completely change the course of the game. (And there are endless such variations: bear in mind that both you and the AI manager can use touchline shouts.)

All this sounds very plausible. However, its a mathmatically based system, and whilst i cant see the coding directly, mathematical systems can always be traced back to an end point. Even if its chaotic, something will depend on what has previously happened, so it would possible to trace it all back the beginning of a match. From that point everything would fan out, and the all the possible variables would create a map. Taking this into consideration, it can be said that if the starting conditions are the same, then the mathematical formula should follow the same pathway each and every time, as one variable has to lead on to another. It must also be remembered that the AI reacts to certain things, so if the game was following the same pathway of the formula then the AI should follow the same pattern of reactions (shouts, tactical changes etc). Therefore the outcome should be the same.

But sometimes it isnt, which bears the question of whether the match engine incorporates totally random events essentially via a virtual dice roll, in which case tactics and player selection can said to be a waste of time.

But sometimes it isnt, which bears the question of whether the match engine incorporates totally random events essentially via a virtual dice roll, in which case tactics and player selection can said to be a waste of time.

But surely that's the whole point of FM - it's a simulation of real life that can't be predicted using mathematical models. Without real life variables some element of randomness has to be introduced or the game would be inflexible. Every real life manager has to deal with events that they can't predict, even if they pick the same team every week and prepare in exactly the same way.

Right? But the mere fact its a computer code automatically makes it a more rigid environment than the real world. What happens is dictated by what is coded. And if something isnt coded then it doesnt happen :/

What would your answer to my question be then - if virtual dice rolls are used to enter a random event into a match, how can our tactics and player selection really have the ultimate influence on our final result?

The match engine uses a different seed each time you reload or make a change.

Unless the same seed is selected, the game will playout in a different way each time. (This doesn't mean your choice of tactics/players are pointless, just that the 'random events' in the match vary)

OK thanks for the insight

There are many events dictated by random number generators. In fact, I would guess all events. The 'randomness' is skewed by thousands of parameters, such as skill, mental drive, weather, etc. Tactics is only one aspect of the real game of soccer, and it is only one aspect of Football Manager.

If a real-life manager gets his tactics perfect against more talented opposition, he still only has a slight chance of winning.

To the OP: Your original victory is stunning and rare, you deserve congratulations. Well done. What sucks here is not the difficulty to replicate victory, that is realistic. What sucks is the original bug which handed your hard-fought win to the wrong freaking team!!