My two cents re FM08

Right, this is supposed to be some kind of my general critique of FM08, a complaint but not a rant. I know I'm not the first person to try that and I know that my opinion is just one of very many out there, but after having played the game for 15 years and just missing out on two versions during that time, I somehow feel that I represent many others who might feel the same way. On top of that I'm working in the business by now and consider myself to have somewhat of an idea about football. So I hope that someone from SI reads this and that it matters to him. If things don't change, I'll be out of this.

FM08 is in my opinion the best so far in many ways. Still, it is the version of the game that lost me.

Okay, I have turned 30 in the meantime, so I would be disappointed if I was still as enthusiastic about video games as I was in my teens, but FM07 always got me back to my laptop and I still really long for having fun with FM. Just FM08 manages to bore me after 30 minutes every time and I turn off the computer again, so it must be version and not me.

I believe that there are 3 main reasons why I just don't care to play the game anymore.

1. The transfer market

It seems a lot of people have been complaining about this already. Players are too expensive. It's a pain to be promoted to EPL, have 18m Euros to spend and to not manage to get more than 2 players for that money who are better than the current squad. Same thing on every level. An average of 70 transfers of 10m+ each summer. Just too much and too many. This also makes it pointless to hope for big offers for own players as you always have to spend the whole money on a replacement that is as good as the player sold. Big source of frustration for me.

2. Realism

The realism of the game is what always attracted me to it. And fm08 is by far the most realistic version ever. Everything feels so realistic and in general I really like that. At the same time that turns out to be a problem for me too. It takes to much time to play the game properly now. If you don't sift through the opponent's squad carefully in every game and if you don't tailor your tactic to them, you are not very likely to be all that successful. In order to have success now you have to play the game very slowly, slower than ever before. Too slow for me - and the additional time necessary is not spent on things which are fun, it's just fumbling around. I have to choose between a harder game and less fun. Parallelly all the features from the earlier versions, like mind games and such, are still there but hardly used and of no effect. The game seems to get a bit too big.

3. Information

To me the separation between an in-box and the newspaper is a big problem. Theoretically there is more information available than ever before. But the paper is spammed by match result messages and the important information gets lost. Hardly ever now I notice anything going on but for coincidence when an intersting message catches my eye among those press comments on matches I don't care about. Consequently I the game world feels way emptier. I don't notice transfer rumor, or transfers even. Every opponent's line-up is a big surprise to me. Even in fm07 I could still always tell you the most important players of every team in my league and the latest transfers even many years into the game. Now this, what has been a particular strength of the game, is lost. The game world hardly exists anymore. Even worse in my network game with two pals, which is the only one I'm still playing. I'm getting less information about them than ever before, not even their press comments on matches (which in my own division are of no interest to me). And no information on international transfers. Totti moves to Real? Unnoticed. Opponent's player with the best AvR? Best scorer? Irrelevant. All I need to know is their attributes to fight them on the tactics screen.

Actually I think that this is the most important issue of all the one's I mentioned. I feel that I lost connection with everything that's going on around my club.

Sadly enough, the improvements of fm08 at the same time keep me from going back to 07. After being spoiled from the strengths of 08, 07 is no more fun as well.

Again, this is just my very humble opinion of me as a single user, but having spent more time with CM and FM than I should ever admit a another person, this really matters to me big time. In my perception the game is heading the wrong direction and I would be immensely sad if in two years from now my connection to it would be nothing more but a memory.

Thanks for reading. Cheers.

Right, this is supposed to be some kind of my general critique of FM08, a complaint but not a rant. I know I'm not the first person to try that and I know that my opinion is just one of very many out there, but after having played the game for 15 years and just missing out on two versions during that time, I somehow feel that I represent many others who might feel the same way. On top of that I'm working in the business by now and consider myself to have somewhat of an idea about football. So I hope that someone from SI reads this and that it matters to him. If things don't change, I'll be out of this.

FM08 is in my opinion the best so far in many ways. Still, it is the version of the game that lost me.

Okay, I have turned 30 in the meantime, so I would be disappointed if I was still as enthusiastic about video games as I was in my teens, but FM07 always got me back to my laptop and I still really long for having fun with FM. Just FM08 manages to bore me after 30 minutes every time and I turn off the computer again, so it must be version and not me.

I believe that there are 3 main reasons why I just don't care to play the game anymore.

1. The transfer market

It seems a lot of people have been complaining about this already. Players are too expensive. It's a pain to be promoted to EPL, have 18m Euros to spend and to not manage to get more than 2 players for that money who are better than the current squad. Same thing on every level. An average of 70 transfers of 10m+ each summer. Just too much and too many. This also makes it pointless to hope for big offers for own players as you always have to spend the whole money on a replacement that is as good as the player sold. Big source of frustration for me.

2. Realism

The realism of the game is what always attracted me to it. And fm08 is by far the most realistic version ever. Everything feels so realistic and in general I really like that. At the same time that turns out to be a problem for me too. It takes to much time to play the game properly now. If you don't sift through the opponent's squad carefully in every game and if you don't tailor your tactic to them, you are not very likely to be all that successful. In order to have success now you have to play the game very slowly, slower than ever before. Too slow for me - and the additional time necessary is not spent on things which are fun, it's just fumbling around. I have to choose between a harder game and less fun. Parallelly all the features from the earlier versions, like mind games and such, are still there but hardly used and of no effect. The game seems to get a bit too big.

3. Information

To me the separation between an in-box and the newspaper is a big problem. Theoretically there is more information available than ever before. But the paper is spammed by match result messages and the important information gets lost. Hardly ever now I notice anything going on but for coincidence when an intersting message catches my eye among those press comments on matches I don't care about. Consequently I the game world feels way emptier. I don't notice transfer rumor, or transfers even. Every opponent's line-up is a big surprise to me. Even in fm07 I could still always tell you the most important players of every team in my league and the latest transfers even many years into the game. Now this, what has been a particular strength of the game, is lost. The game world hardly exists anymore. Even worse in my network game with two pals, which is the only one I'm still playing. I'm getting less information about them than ever before, not even their press comments on matches (which in my own division are of no interest to me). And no information on international transfers. Totti moves to Real? Unnoticed. Opponent's player with the best AvR? Best scorer? Irrelevant. All I need to know is their attributes to fight them on the tactics screen.

Actually I think that this is the most important issue of all the one's I mentioned. I feel that I lost connection with everything that's going on around my club.

Sadly enough, the improvements of fm08 at the same time keep me from going back to 07. After being spoiled from the strengths of 08, 07 is no more fun as well.

Again, this is just my very humble opinion of me as a single user, but having spent more time with CM and FM than I should ever admit a another person, this really matters to me big time. In my perception the game is heading the wrong direction and I would be immensely sad if in two years from now my connection to it would be nothing more but a memory.

Thanks for reading. Cheers.

I'm one who usually argues with those slamming the game, so it's refreshing to read a well-thought-out post that picks up on genuine faults.

I agree 100% with this. I still love the game and can work around most of the issues, but the niggles ARE annoying and I'm sure SI can improve them with some time spent on the detail.

And you missed off the constant, repetitive press questions about the same players on your shortlist and about players returning to the club seven years after he left, which is somewhat annoying if not game-wrecking.

Ive been drawing comparisons to PES for a while now, but this just shows it again. FM has improved too much to make the early versions playable, ywt there are so many faults with the new version that it just isnt as fun. I end up starting new games all the time as I get bored with my current game due to the faults jayahr mentioned. The same happened with PES, and I ended up selling PES 2008. I hope FM09 fixes all the major problems or I could end up not playing FM anymore, and that would be a loss.

I don't know how anyone could say this game is heading int the wrong direction. I find that playing the older versions is depressing because some of the small little features they have out in the game have added so much to it.

The game ha become very deep and maybe too dep for some peoples likes, but there is no doubt that it is the premier football simulation and will continue to lead the way.

Yeah, I agree its the Premier football sim, but is it the premier sim like PES is? The competition on both fronts is terrible, and although Im sure the develpoers put in their best effort, not having a close rival can make it difficult to make the game perfect

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Okay, I have turned 30 in the meantime, so I would be disappointed if I was still as enthusiastic about video games </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think age matters when it comes to playing FM. I'm 40 and have been playing since CM Italia and still look forward to a new edition of the game.

I find myself agreeing with everything you have said.

Firstly the transfer market. This is something that really needs a complete overhaul. I've found myself in this game having to bring in 1 or 2 players each season. I can understand if you are at the top of a big league and you want to bring in players yes you will be paying big money to bring in something better. However playing as a mid table team as I have been I'm still not getting anything for my money. You look at the current transfer market and what players go for and the game does not reflect this at all.

Onto the realism. The tactics as you said having to keep changing to suit the opponent. When I first started I really struggled but the more I played the better I understood the tactical element in this game. In past versions I would create on tactic stick with it and almost never change it unless I had to mid game for injuries or a red card. I've actually enjoyed the challenge in this version but found once you understand it, it became in a way quiet easy. I've managed to win the league with a very average team just by using the tactics to suit their strengths. This was using a team you would never see win the league and probably struggle to make top 7 in real life. Finally you mentioned the mind games. I've found with these and the media comments I've done better just ignoring them and just choosing no comment every time than I did when I actually chose a comment. I found making a positive comment half my team performed badly, a negative comment that half now perform well. I make no comment the whole team were great.

Lastly onto the information. I found myself not noticing the transfers as well. I found myself having to go onto the transfer screen to see what was actually happening. You would expect to see the big transfers straight away without having to look for them.

I've found with this version for the first time struggling to enjoy myself and get a long game going. It took me till just last month to get a game going for more than a season or 2. The only other time I did this was when it first came out. I found once I got that game going within in 4 seasons I was on top of the EPL and getting to the latter stages or winning the champions league with ease. Other versions I found difficult to put down but this version I can. When I get the urge to start a new game I find it all too easy to walk away from. I'm no longer sucked in by the game as I once was.

Thanks for the input, guys.

As far as the transfer market is concerned, I'm sure that this will be tweaked further anyway as always. Just this time an improvement might be a bit more important than it has been at other times.

The negotiation should get some more of a give and take thing and the amounts due for not listed players need an overhaul. On the other hand the money seems to be there in the game and it would be unrealistic if that didn't lead to higher prices. I would not be astonished if we saw that during the next years irl, but this would be EPL and not the other countries as well. Maybe already increasing the values (while making them more volatile) would already improve things. Then one would at least not have such a strong feeling to overspend while still paying the same fees.

Many of the things I addressed could probably be changed with just cosmetic changes. These cosmetic flaws however add up to something substancial for me as it is today.

I would so much like to get the transfer news and awards as news item I have to click through again. That would already help. And have some more interaction between club. Maybe a few media stories about things are going elsewhere, tactical criticism, a bit more transfer and manager rumours and the like. It would not take major changes to have a living game world again.

And don't get me wrong. I am one of those guys who want a realistic game. This is why I always preferred CM/FM over any other management sim. Just this time I feel things have been taken a tad to far.

I agree, apart from what you say about transfers. Yes it is infuriating, but I think it is a reflection of real life today that players are too expensive and often clubs who win promotion from the chamionship go straight back down due to the gulf in quality.

Just look how much sunderland spent last season and where they ended up. It costs a lot of money to compete and survive in the premiership nowadays

Being bored at work I just happened to re-read this old post of mine and now I feel like giving this a last bump to say thank you to SI

I don't dare to believe that my post was responsible for the improvements made is the areas I complained about but still reading my complaint and seeing how these areas have been improved have made happy to believe that SI listen to their fanbase in an exemplary way

FM09 got me back to addiction.

The transfer market has been addressed properly and is vastly improved. Negotiations now are true negotiations. Some flaws are left, but it feels way better.

The second issue has been addressed by many other users in the meantime as well and is still a problem. But I feel this has been logged now properly and we can expect something to happen here for FM10.

The information issue has been solved perfectly. The transfer rumours screen, the '!' on the division news page and the automatic forwarding to that page add up to a serious improvement in that area! I still would like to get more information on takeovers in my and other divisions or on big international transfers or sackings, but now I have a better idea of what is going on around me again.

Now, the next needed steps forward imho are dealing with the second issue and improving/bringing back something which I would like to call the immersion feeling. This was perfect in the old CMs.

I miss the manager points system, though I don't expect it to come back as SI must have taken it out on purpose for some reasons. Then the favourred and diskliked personnel area could be improved - just think of how hard it is to get on the club favourred personnel list.

Also working on the reputation side could do wonders. Now it is a bit too vague. A 'national' reputation can mean you won't get a L1 job or that you are seriously considered for an EPL job. We need some more information here on where we stand.

I miss the old manager ranking. Why can't this be brought back? It was a nice touch to see where you are and added a lot of reward when you saw yourself climbing up the ranks It's even nicer in network games with other human which I like to play. Pleeeeaaase, SI...

Also the ideas mentioned in here http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=108489 would work a treat to improve the immersion feeling. If all those little issues about relations, reputations and media which now can lead to the feeling that it isn't completely 'right' yet would go, we would be back at the old immersion level and nothing would stop FM anymore from achieving world domination and ruining the promising real life carreers of young people who play the game a tad too much.

Please feel free to close this if no discussion on my new points emerges (smiley) (Down with the restriction to 4 emoticons!)