Realism can be unrealisitic too then i guess?

We keep seeing topics flying up about the AI cheating when the opposition team wins with less chances made and too many penalties being given and scored.

Now i'll admit i only noticed this and made the in-game connections because I was interested in the match but...

3 penalties in the Man Utd v Portsmouth match today. All scored. Broken match engine.

Northwich Vics beaten 3-1 by Lincoln who had less shots over the entire game. Unrealistic according to the stats. Victoria Stadium needs patching quick...

And a famous historical example...

Liverpool coming back from 3-0 against AC Milan in a certain Champions League final. Cheating AI forcing a result. AC should reload and try again!

...of course bugs exist; clubs releasing their older players when they're still good is an obvious one, but to blame any dramatic or unlikely outcomes as a fault with the game is just crazy.

For me, FM2010 has been the most challenging and responsive one yet and i'm loving it. I actually have to keep an eye on the match and my tactics instead of making up one all conquering formation with settings.

My main issue with the game is the regens....I have just started 10th season and the lack of good players is now becoming a major problem as theres simply not enough to go around. The big teams in the league are forced to spend a lot of money on 32 year olds that were already in the game.

Theres only about 5-6 regens on the whole game which don't have some part of the stats totally messed up. Wingers with 5 crossing, defenders with 15 finishing and 9 out of 10 strikers having less than 6 off the ball.....I understand you can train them, but these are just examples.....as a lot of players have some good stats then a ton of poor ones which ruin the player.

I have decided to start a new game just incase my save is quite ' unlucky '

It's one of my only issues with the game, because its not very realistic as i cant see the standard of the game dropping so much in the next 10 years.

We keep seeing topics flying up about the AI cheating when the opposition team wins with less chances made and too many penalties being given and scored.

Now i'll admit i only noticed this and made the in-game connections because I was interested in the match but...

3 penalties in the Man Utd v Portsmouth match today. All scored. Broken match engine.

Northwich Vics beaten 3-1 by Lincoln who had less shots over the entire game. Unrealistic according to the stats. Victoria Stadium needs patching quick...

And a famous historical example...

Liverpool coming back from 3-0 against AC Milan in a certain Champions League final. Cheating AI forcing a result. AC should reload and try again!

...of course bugs exist; clubs releasing their older players when they're still good is an obvious one, but to blame any dramatic or unlikely outcomes as a fault with the game is just crazy.

For me, FM2010 has been the most challenging and responsive one yet and i'm loving it. I actually have to keep an eye on the match and my tactics instead of making up one all conquering formation with settings.

How many times has that happend to Man Utd over the whole season?

How many times has that happend in a champions league match?

I think people are having issues with this every other game over a long period which is why they are posting to find out if it is a bug or not. That's my understanding anyway.

Yeah, these matches stand out because they are rare in real life (or rare enough anyway). The reason people are so frustrated is because these games happen to them far too often.

Penalties are scored most of the time, and it is kind of rare to see a keeper save in real life, the problem most people have with it as far as I can see, and one that I have noticed too, is that your keeper never dives to make an attempt to save it. The only time he does save it is if the player hits it straight down the middle at him. Yet the number of times I have seen the AI keeper dive is frustrating, when I see mine just standing there as the ball flies in.

Yes, freak results happen now and again, it's a fact of life, and while most people would find it frustrating to get them, I am sure most of them are reasonable people who could accept it if it happened, as long as it wasn't happening all the time. Which it seems to be.

I have had games where I managed 20 shots at the opposition goalkeeper, and not a single goal was scored. Yet the opposition had 3 shots and scored every single one of them. I ended up losing the matches 3-0. This is frustrating, but now and again I'm sure I could handle it, but not every other game.

Yes, it's challenging, and it's good to be challenging, but I don't want to be changing the way I am playing every few months because the AI has "figured me out". If I still have better players, I should still win most games. Teams in real life play the same way most of the time. Look at Bolton! I don't think they have changed since they got in the Premier League. Chelsea are playing the diamond now, do you think they'll still be playing the same way in 12 months? more than likely...why? because it works...opponents don't just "figure out" your tactic, and suddenly turn you from a good team to a bad one. Fergie has played the same systems at Man Utd for years, and they still win trophies every season.

If I have the best team, that should count a large part towards how likely I am to get the result, and yet it seems that opponent tactics are playing an all too important role in deciding the outcome of matches. Against top clubs is probably fair enough, but against "weaker" sides, it becomes insane.

Think that's everything Maybe I missed something, but it's too late to read back and check now.

Yes, it's challenging, and it's good to be challenging, but I don't want to be changing the way I am playing every few months because the AI has "figured me out". If I still have better players, I should still win most games. Teams in real life play the same way most of the time. Look at Bolton! I don't think they have changed since they got in the Premier League. Chelsea are playing the diamond now, do you think they'll still be playing the same way in 12 months? more than likely...why? because it works...opponents don't just "figure out" your tactic, and suddenly turn you from a good team to a bad one. Fergie has played the same systems at Man Utd for years, and they still win trophies every season.

If I have the best team, that should count a large part towards how likely I am to get the result, and yet it seems that opponent tactics are playing an all too important role in deciding the outcome of matches. Against top clubs is probably fair enough, but against "weaker" sides, it becomes insane.

Think that's everything Maybe I missed something, but it's too late to read back and check now.

I agree with that and I've posted to this extent before. Of course if you are Man Utd or Chelsea and you don't know what you are doing at all, you should have a chance of getting relegated even, but people with even competent football knowledge should at least be able to get them into the Europa League at the worst, and I think it's frustrating those people who are casual players with a good knowledge of how to manage.

I must admit, this problem isn't as bad as in previous versions. I have got better this year, so it's not an ultimate comparison, but I've finished 3rd and 6th with Aberdeen (predicted 4th and 5th), and am currently top of League 1 with Leeds by two points. I'm not micro-managing, but I've set up individual training schedules. I don't really tweak the tactics too much, so I think the difficulty level is good this year.

Bear in mind that I've only won about 3 things in 10 years of playing FM (one Premiership, one FA Cup and a Copa America), and this is the first game ever where I've really felt that the challenge is realistic.

On past versions, for example, I finished 5th then got sacked while in 17th at Newcastle, I managed Werder Bremen into the relegation zone, and have struggled with other big teams. I think a little bit more effort (as I have put in this year) will get you to the point of performing at roughly the level you should be. To win a lot of things, you have to be very good, as it should be.

Tottenham 9-1 against Wigan, that would be considered a bug by a player who witnessed that in FM.

Everyone has correctly pointed out the OP's fallacy, but I have to disagree with those who say that the game is too difficult. If anything it is a little on the easy side.

Once I have settled on a preferred formation for my team I never change it, and it doesn't ever seem to get figured out by the opposition. I have heard a lot of people claim that this happens for the last few versions of FM, but I have never experienced it myself so I remain sceptical.

The dominate-but-lose problem which afflicted FM08 and FM09 so badly seems to have been rectified in the current version. When my teams dominate on FM10 they almost always win so if this is not the case for other people then maybe it is down to your players. I dominated and lost two or three games early in the 2013 season so I changed my captain to a player with a higher determination attribute and never looked back.

@woody2goody

I used to be awful at FM (or CM as it was then) as well. What helped me to improve was managing a really bad team in the Russian First Division which forced me to look for any possible advantage I could get rather than just buying better players than my opponents and then being perplexed when my team got thrashed. Prior to that the only thing I'd won in years of playing was the Argentine Premier Division opening stage with River Plate. I followed it up by finishing last in the closing stage!

Holy bloody hell?! Some who can talk some sense:

Read this: Damn Unrealistic Results!

My main issue with the game is the regens....I have just started 10th season and the lack of good players is now becoming a major problem as theres simply not enough to go around. The big teams in the league are forced to spend a lot of money on 32 year olds that were already in the game.

Theres only about 5-6 regens on the whole game which don't have some part of the stats totally messed up. Wingers with 5 crossing, defenders with 15 finishing and 9 out of 10 strikers having less than 6 off the ball.....I understand you can train them, but these are just examples.....as a lot of players have some good stats then a ton of poor ones which ruin the player.

I have decided to start a new game just incase my save is quite ' unlucky '

It's one of my only issues with the game, because its not very realistic as i cant see the standard of the game dropping so much in the next 10 years.

You're not looking hard enough. Wonderkids pop up way too often in my game, 19 and 20 year olds popping up in Algeria and Argentina. Clubs buying lots of 17 and 18 year old regens. Worst thing is though my scouts never find them when they first show up, always maybe a year after.

I don't think it's completely unrealistic to have players trained in the wrong way at the beginning, that's why you have to mold them to your liking. Young players often have stats that are different from how they should be because of natural reward and punishment contingencies while they are playing at school or youth level where they are encouraged to play with more freedom to develop a repetoire of skills.

Penalties are scored most of the time, and it is kind of rare to see a keeper save in real life, the problem most people have with it as far as I can see, and one that I have noticed too, is that your keeper never dives to make an attempt to save it. The only time he does save it is if the player hits it straight down the middle at him. Yet the number of times I have seen the AI keeper dive is frustrating, when I see mine just standing there as the ball flies in.

This is not a ME problem; this is an animation problem and has absolutely no influence on whether the PK is successful. Its just poorly rendered in the animated playback. How can people be mad at the game when they really dont understand what is going on?

Everyone has correctly pointed out the OP's fallacy, but I have to disagree with those who say that the game is too difficult. If anything it is a little on the easy side.

Where was he fallacious?

Yeah, these matches stand out because they are rare in real life (or rare enough anyway). The reason people are so frustrated is because these games happen to them far too often.

Penalties are scored most of the time, and it is kind of rare to see a keeper save in real life, the problem most people have with it as far as I can see, and one that I have noticed too, is that your keeper never dives to make an attempt to save it. The only time he does save it is if the player hits it straight down the middle at him. Yet the number of times I have seen the AI keeper dive is frustrating, when I see mine just standing there as the ball flies in.

Yes, freak results happen now and again, it's a fact of life, and while most people would find it frustrating to get them, I am sure most of them are reasonable people who could accept it if it happened, as long as it wasn't happening all the time. Which it seems to be.

I have had games where I managed 20 shots at the opposition goalkeeper, and not a single goal was scored. Yet the opposition had 3 shots and scored every single one of them. I ended up losing the matches 3-0. This is frustrating, but now and again I'm sure I could handle it, but not every other game.

Yes, it's challenging, and it's good to be challenging, but I don't want to be changing the way I am playing every few months because the AI has "figured me out". If I still have better players, I should still win most games. Teams in real life play the same way most of the time. Look at Bolton! I don't think they have changed since they got in the Premier League. Chelsea are playing the diamond now, do you think they'll still be playing the same way in 12 months? more than likely...why? because it works...opponents don't just "figure out" your tactic, and suddenly turn you from a good team to a bad one. Fergie has played the same systems at Man Utd for years, and they still win trophies every season.

If I have the best team, that should count a large part towards how likely I am to get the result, and yet it seems that opponent tactics are playing an all too important role in deciding the outcome of matches. Against top clubs is probably fair enough, but against "weaker" sides, it becomes insane.

Think that's everything Maybe I missed something, but it's too late to read back and check now.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I've gone through three tactics myself, and it's getting annoying to find new ones that work just as well as the old ones DID. This is over four years though, I guess somewhat realism for a mid league club (West Ham).

We need a consistent tactic; but, equally, we need to sign players who fit the unique roles of that tactic. Unlike the days of moving the sliders, the new tactic wizard allows for unique roles (like deep playing playmaker or poacher for example) and our players have to fit those roles. If you sign a bunch of random high CA/PA guys, it wont cut it in this version.

We need a consistent tactic; but, equally, we need to sign players who fit the unique roles of that tactic. Unlike the days of moving the sliders, the new tactic wizard allows for unique roles (like deep playing playmaker or poacher for example) and our players have to fit those roles. If you sign a bunch of random high CA/PA guys, it wont cut it in this version.

It must be a bug then.

*safety wink*

We keep seeing topics flying up about the AI cheating when the opposition team wins with less chances made and too many penalties being given and scored.

The AI accused me of cheating after this match

The AI accused me of cheating after this match

I would be fuming if I was Chelsea though.

But at least it shows it happens from both sides.

I don't think it's the fact you get these 'wrong' or 'weird' results, such as dominating but losing 1-0 to a 30 yard screamer, but more just the amount of times it happens. Personally I could accept losing 1-0 but dominating every now and then, every team has a game like that over a season, but if it started happening every other game (as some people seem to be claiming) then I would be a little concerned. Having said that, it's nothing a good tactic wont fix

yesterday in premier league man utd beat portsmouth 4-1 (3 penalties were given). so if u see 2-3 penalties being given in FM (in one game) it's not really unrealistic.

Dominate/Lose is really frustrating. The point is that it can happen 3-4 times a season IRL or maybe 5-6 max but in the game it happens every third game. It annoys me a lot.

I cannot believe how many comebacks from 2 and 3 goals behind I've seen in my game and i've only reached the end of November. It's crazy, really really crazy.

My main issue with the game is the regens....I have just started 10th season and the lack of good players is now becoming a major problem as theres simply not enough to go around. The big teams in the league are forced to spend a lot of money on 32 year olds that were already in the game.

Theres only about 5-6 regens on the whole game which don't have some part of the stats totally messed up. Wingers with 5 crossing, defenders with 15 finishing and 9 out of 10 strikers having less than 6 off the ball.....I understand you can train them, but these are just examples.....as a lot of players have some good stats then a ton of poor ones which ruin the player.

I have decided to start a new game just incase my save is quite ' unlucky '

It's one of my only issues with the game, because its not very realistic as i cant see the standard of the game dropping so much in the next 10 years.

You're not looking hard enough. Wonderkids pop up way too often in my game, 19 and 20 year olds popping up in Algeria and Argentina. Clubs buying lots of 17 and 18 year old regens. Worst thing is though my scouts never find them when they first show up, always maybe a year after.

I don't think it's completely unrealistic to have players trained in the wrong way at the beginning, that's why you have to mold them to your liking. Young players often have stats that are different from how they should be because of natural reward and punishment contingencies while they are playing at school or youth level where they are encouraged to play with more freedom to develop a repetoire of skills.

I'm going into my 8th season. There are nowhere near enough good youngsters to help fill up the top teams and leagues around Europe. Like the first post here says they tend to have an attribute problem (eg.Strikers with very low composure, midfielders that can't pass, defenders that can't head).

Where was he fallacious?

His claim that there isn't a penalty bug because sometimes penalties are scored in real life is a fallacious argument. The problem with penalties in FM10 is that they're scored too often, not that they're scored at all.

We keep seeing topics flying up about the AI cheating when the opposition team wins with less chances made and too many penalties being given and scored.

Now i'll admit i only noticed this and made the in-game connections because I was interested in the match but...

3 penalties in the Man Utd v Portsmouth match today. All scored. Broken match engine.

Northwich Vics beaten 3-1 by Lincoln who had less shots over the entire game. Unrealistic according to the stats. Victoria Stadium needs patching quick...

And a famous historical example...

Liverpool coming back from 3-0 against AC Milan in a certain Champions League final. Cheating AI forcing a result. AC should reload and try again!

...of course bugs exist; clubs releasing their older players when they're still good is an obvious one, but to blame any dramatic or unlikely outcomes as a fault with the game is just crazy.

For me, FM2010 has been the most challenging and responsive one yet and i'm loving it. I actually have to keep an eye on the match and my tactics instead of making up one all conquering formation with settings.

You mentioned three cases in a great span of time, when it's happening in FM every single week. So, please, be honest when trying to "sell" something, because your sample it's too small to make any kind of reasoning.

This is not a ME problem; this is an animation problem and has absolutely no influence on whether the PK is successful. Its just poorly rendered in the animated playback. How can people be mad at the game when they really dont understand what is going on?

Then why is it that every penalty that is hit down the center at the goalkeeper is saved?

If this is an animation problem, then surely many of these penalties will be scored?

This is not an animation problem. The AI keeper will dive fairly often. In penalty shootouts, the keepers will dive every other penalty, and others not. If this is an animation problem, the keepers would NEVER dive, and sometimes the penalties that are hit either side would bounce out off mid-air, and we would see people complaining about it.

While I agree that the 3D could only be a representation of what is happening rather than what is "actually" happening, they need to solve this. As far as I know it is a problem that has existed for a few years. It was certainly there during FM08.

Holy bloody hell?! Some who can talk some sense:

Read this: Damn Unrealistic Results!

That thread is fantastic.

His claim that there isn't a penalty bug because sometimes penalties are scored in real life is a fallacious argument. The problem with penalties in FM10 is that they're scored too often, not that they're scored at all.

I see no one providing any statistical evidence that this is the case. Its all about what people feel to be wrong.

Then why is it that every penalty that is hit down the center at the goalkeeper is saved?

If this is an animation problem, then surely many of these penalties will be scored?

This is not an animation problem. The AI keeper will dive fairly often. In penalty shootouts, the keepers will dive every other penalty, and others not. If this is an animation problem, the keepers would NEVER dive, and sometimes the penalties that are hit either side would bounce out off mid-air, and we would see people complaining about it.

While I agree that the 3D could only be a representation of what is happening rather than what is "actually" happening, they need to solve this. As far as I know it is a problem that has existed for a few years. It was certainly there during FM08.

It is an animation problem in that the result of a PK is decided in the ME using an algorithm. What, where or how a GK dive has absolutely no part in the real resolution of the attempt. It just needs to be rendered more realistically in the playback.

@Bababui

I admit that I haven't gathered statistical evidence, but it seems so obvious that I'd be amazed if I've just imagined it. I have never seen more than one penalty missed in a single shoot out in FM10. That is surely wrong.

That wasn't really my point though. I merely commenting on that fact that the OP's "refutation" was a fallacious argument.

I have to say that I don't think there's too much wrong with most results.

You hear the complaints about the AI making comebacks, in real life at the moment, see West Ham's current form.

Also, whoever heard of a team succumbing to seven draws in a row, most of which involving being pegged back at the end? Oh... Man City...

Stuff like this happens all the time in football. The problem is, due to that being played out in real life, when you have it in game with the passage of time bringing match upon match to you in one session, it just seems a lot more concentrated.

@Bababui

I admit that I haven't gathered statistical evidence, but it seems so obvious that I'd be amazed if I've just imagined it. I have never seen more than one penalty missed in a single shoot out in FM10. That is surely wrong.

Looking back at some of my results (its Leigh Genesis so not the same quality as top flight football) it does seem that the PK success rate is much higher in shootouts. Guys that suck in ratings and in matches are Ballack in shootouts.