Opening a can of worms - new patch

This is going to be flamed for sure by all of those lovers that will tell me to be patient as the game has just come out. However I couldnt give a monkeys nuts!

As always there are issues with the released game, even after the first initial patch.

now I don’t need to go into detail regarding the current issues/bugs in the game as I am sure we all know what they are by now.

The sticking point that really peeves me off is that some of these issue/bugs are glaringly obvious. How can I pick them up in 3 hours of playing, however hundreds of testers cannot pick them up in days/weeks/months of testing?!

That said, I can only start to think how much effort must be put into a game of this size......Huge. And commendations for everyone that helped produce it. Im not trying to be an idiot, I am looking at it from a logical perspective.

The one and only reason I created this thread is to find out EXACTLY (or roughly) when we can expect the new patch to come out. After the huge number of Football Manager10 games sold and reaching the number one position in the game charts worldwide, you now have an obligation to let the paying customer know when their product will be fixed.

Dont get me wrong, the game IS still playable. However Its like buying a car that is meant to go 140 mph and finding out it only reaches 100 mph. Then to be told by the dealer, well it still works doesnt it?! And im not going to tell you when I can fix your car so it reaches the full speed. It will be when I decide I will tell you.

Pants!!!

The only other choice I have is to wait until Dec/Jan to buy the next version, instead of purchasing it on its release date so I can buy a finished copy complete with all bugs fixed. Imagine if everyone did that! That would really bug the game developers. But then, they wouldnt have their real beta testers would they?!

This thread should be an indication of all those people who at the very least want to find out when the next patch will be reaching us so we can enjoy this game in its full glory.

Please respond and show that you feel the same......I know there are lots of you out there!

I read on the thread patch policy before disappearing was that the patch would be released sometime in December.

it could be at the beginning of the month or around Christmas, that is not sure. If the policy I read is still the same.

I read on the thread patch policy before disappearing was that the patch would be released sometime in December.

it could be at the beginning of the month or around Christmas, that is not sure. If the policy I read is still the same.

If that is the case why the hell isnt a sticky?? This is rather important and I havent seen what your describing anywhere.

There is no way they should stick to this policy.

There are too many irritants in the game. If the major flaws have been ironed out I'm hoping the next patch comes before xmas.

I know the game will be great but not in its current state.

I heard as soon as the January transfers are over

There is no way they should stick to this policy.

There are too many irritants in the game. If the major flaws have been ironed out I'm hoping the next patch comes before xmas.

I know the game will be great but not in its current state.

I know the game will be great, probably the best yet. But I am fed up with getting excited about the new Football Manager release for months to find out yet again, I need to wait a couple of months before it is the finished article.

I heard as soon as the January transfers are over

I hope not........Otherwise I will not be buying this game next year and will simply edit it to keep the transfers up to date.

There is no way they should stick to this policy.

There are too many irritants in the game. If the major flaws have been ironed out I'm hoping the next patch comes before xmas.

I know the game will be great but not in its current state.

This is something I definitely agree with (although in fairness, it has to be said that fixes that don't involve code have been made available early to help people with the memory leak problem delay the crash). 09 still has issues within it (graphical bugs etc etc) and despite the bug forums remaining open for it, let's be honest and say that they only seem to serve to help narrow down bugs for the latest release as the chances of a patch for 09 being released now are zero.

Have bought FM10. Sadly however it has the same graphical bug on my system which FM09 suffered with and one which was reported consistently for several months prior to FM10 being released. There's no point me reporting bugs for FM10 because I'll just get told 'your drivers are out of date', which is true - but then that's because the game is unplayable with the latest drivers for my card.

*sigh*

Sorry, I needed to vent. Hopefully by the time of patch 3, FM10 may be worth me starting a new career game for and SI and ATI will have had a chat about why drivers post-February 2009 for some cards and on some systems cause graphical errors . But I'm increasingly leaning towards the view that this game really isn't worth picking up every season and should be bought every third season or so with fingers crossed that a major 'enhancement' hasn't been included with all the associated glitches and bugs.

We will definitely let you know when it's ready - don't worry.

As it stands, it's being worked on and the "finish" date isn't something we're sure of.

Can someone tell me who will be fixed ? Gona fix what *** unrealistic side,when players ability ignores tactic,everythink on this version now are looking how good you are in tactics,but i think players play the game,not tactics.

But I'm increasingly leaning towards the view that this game really isn't worth picking up every season and should be bought every third season or so with fingers crossed that a major 'enhancement' hasn't been included with all the associated glitches and bugs.

I agree with you here... I dont suffer from the graphical problems you mention but the game just isnt worth the asking price at release date just for us users (guinea pigs) to point out all the bugs.

Maybe a reduced cost for purchasing this game at release date, and a full cost for those who purchase the game once they have been fixed.

We will definitely let you know when it's ready - don't worry.

As it stands, it's being worked on and the "finish" date isn't something we're sure of.

Nice to see a firendly face on this thread!

An indication of when Matt??

Can someone tell me who will be fixed ? Gona fix what f**cking unrealistic side,when players ability ignores tactic,everythink on this version now are looking how good you are in tactics,but i think players play the game,not tactics.

How i can be happy,if my team plays rubish,in CH where i been promoted in first season,now im last in 22 matches i have W2 D4 L16 nice yeah? its my tactics? its my morale? so someone can say me how to play good,in my team plays good players Nwanko Kanu,Michael Owen,James O'Shea,Defoe but i can't score,i can't win everythink is bad.my team is **** ? i'm too stupid for this game,i don't think in real so much affects tactics.

How i can be happy,if my team plays rubish,in CH where i been promoted in first season,now im last in 22 matches i have W2 D4 L16 nice yeah? its my tactics? its my morale? so someone can say me how to play good,in my team plays good players Nwanko Kanu,Michael Owen,James O'Shea,Defoe but i can't score,i can't win everythink is bad.my team is **** ? i'm too stupid for this game,i don't think in real so much affects tactics.

Xirtama - please keep on topic. This isnt a bugs issue that you are experiencing.

The sticking point that really peeves me off is that some of these issue/bugs are glaringly obvious. How can I pick them up in 3 hours of playing, however hundreds of testers cannot pick them up in days/weeks/months of testing?!

I have read on these forums before that most of the remaining bugs have probably been spotted by the testers, but are unable to be fixed before the game has been released due to the inflexibility of the release date. Not just with FM, but many games overall

It isn't realistic,its bug/glich i don't know how to call that.So someone can give me experience,how to play well read what TTF from which anything new i can't learn?

It isn't realistic,its bug/glich i don't know how to call that.So someone can give me experience,how to play well read what TTF from which anything new i can't learn?

As Gypsy_Roots said, it's not a bug if you are unsuccessful, so stop blaming problems in the game for your failures, because there are many more important bugs to be sorted within the game.

Matt, you are always so nice ..(maybe because you are part of the marketing department...)

Could you say at least if the right year for the patch is 2009?

Cheers

Nice to see a firendly face on this thread!

An indication of when Matt??

I can't give an indication of when because I don't honestly know. Various changes have been made and need to be tested - and some are still being worked on.

If I say "December 1st" and something happens in the release candidate in test and it's delayed a week - do you feel better, or worse? I think I know.

Which is why SI always indicate when they have confidence they can deliver. Same thing this time - please bear with us.

I've stopped playing till the next patch as they say its better to start a new game with every patch so why play then restart when i've got Assassin's Creed 2 and Batman to finish, but for FM 11, I won't get it till the 2nd or 3rd patch so that the game is mostly complete and ready to go. I want SI to take their time, get the game as good as it can be and then I can throw myself into it more when the games drought starts around March-April time

one majour bug and instability im suprised didnt get lookd at is the super free scoring strikers that score 30 goals in 40 games yet in real life has never managed more than 5 a season in over 30 games.. even strikers with 10 for finishing score 15 goals a season from 30 yards is that a bug or somthing footballers from lower leagues do these days

I just cant understand how the glaringly obvious were not fixed before release.Can si honestly say they didnt notice the attrocious pass backs in testing?Not to mention i get upwards of 10 sending offs a season just from players going for headers and 'tripping' players!Even on easy tackling they continue to do it.These issues along with the awful wing play and some instructions that seen to do nothing make the game unplayable for me.

It is odd how the blazing obvious bugs or issues don't get seen earlier by the testers, but they have a hard job and no doubt have people yelling at them to get a move on, great games take time, but I guess Eidos don't care about the quality of the game just the quantity that are sold and only the gamers suffer right, so thats okay isn't it? Isn't it? Look at GTA, several years between games, they find most of the bugs, and they are all brilliant, GTA4 had its knockers for its realism and repetitive gameplay, but if you give programmers time, they will make something fantastic which will have players coming back for more, so Eidos, give SI time to finish so we don't need patches and don't need to moan about our beloved FM.

one majour bug and instability im suprised didnt get lookd at is the super free scoring strikers that score 30 goals in 40 games yet in real life has never managed more than 5 a season in over 30 games.. even strikers with 10 for finishing score 15 goals a season from 30 yards is that a bug or somthing footballers from lower leagues do these days

This is the one bug I really hate, every thing else i can live with, example Ngog has scored 15 goals in 18 games!! haha that would never happen.

I agree with you here... I dont suffer from the graphical problems you mention but the game just isnt worth the asking price at release date just for us users (guinea pigs) to point out all the bugs.

Maybe a reduced cost for purchasing this game at release date, and a full cost for those who purchase the game once they have been fixed.

Please don't get me wrong - I've bought almost every version since the CM days (although it took me a while to register for the new forums ). I expect games to have bugs upon release - hopefully none too major. But the simple fact is that the current seasonal full release with new enhancements and a limit on SI's ability to patch things before the next release is just making me grow disillusioned with the series. By the time I've got into my career game started after patch 3 (when hopefully the major bugs have been squashed), the new version of the game is out.

It's a tough one - if I stop buying, will this force SI to reconsider their policy on releasing the game every season with just two main patches and a 'tidy-up' patch before the next new release? It didn't with EA which follows an even more brutal cycle of release/patch if the game crashes for too many people/release. And won't it just be hurting the makers of the best football game available and reduce the funds they have available to actually make improvements?

Personally, I'd be quite happy to pay full price for the odd season where nothing major is introduced and the development time is spent ironing out the creases in the game and refining existing problematic areas of the game (eg press conferences and their repetitive nature, ensuring documentation is accurate and complete for the game etc.). Maybe I'm just an old fart who isn't impressed by shiny new bells and whistles when deciding what game to buy, and so represent just a small segment of the market SI is aiming for and so my whining on this forum serves only to reduce my own frustrations with the game sufficiently for me to head back to playing before the next time a bug, glitch or error makes me grumpy again.

It is odd how the blazing obvious bugs or issues don't get seen earlier by the testers, but they have a hard job and no doubt have people yelling at them to get a move on, great games take time, but I guess Eidos don't care about the quality of the game just the quantity that are sold and only the gamers suffer right, so thats okay isn't it? Isn't it? Look at GTA, several years between games, they find most of the bugs, and they are all brilliant, GTA4 had its knockers for its realism and repetitive gameplay, but if you give programmers time, they will make something fantastic which will have players coming back for more, so Eidos, give SI time to finish so we don't need patches and don't need to moan about our beloved FM.

Eidos?? You really are a flashback. The game is published by Sega now. And honestly there is very little wrong with it. Every single PC game is released and then patched so why oh why must people moan about it. Like SI and Sega are the only ones that do it and it has come as a massive shock to you all.

Eidos?? You really are a flashback. The game is published by Sega now. And honestly there is very little wrong with it. Every single PC game is released and then patched so why oh why must people moan about it. Like SI and Sega are the only ones that do it and it has come as a massive shock to you all.

You are exactly the reason why Sega dont pay enough attention to their finished product. Accepting that 'this is the way it is, and dont moan about it' doesnt help anything in the long run.

We moan because we get sooo excited about waiting for the new release of the game we love, however upon starting it we find the same struggle to play it to its full potential.

Accept these deficiencies, that is your choice. Others feel a game with major obvious bugs/issues is unacceptable when paying the full cost for a supposed finished product.

You are exactly the reason why Sega dont pay enough attention to their finished product. Accepting that 'this is the way it is, and dont moan about it' doesnt help help anything in the long run.

We moan because we get sooo excited about waiting for the new release of the game we love, however upon starting it we find the same struggle to play it to its full potential.

Accept these deficiencies, that is your choice. Others feel a game with major obvious bugs/issues is unacceptable when paying the full cost for a supposed finished product.

The whole industry has always done it and always will so whats the point in moaning. I should also point out that the game isn't broken either, mine works fine.

I also think its unfair to blame it all on me

I can't give an indication of when because I don't honestly know. Various changes have been made and need to be tested - and some are still being worked on.

If I say "December 1st" and something happens in the release candidate in test and it's delayed a week - do you feel better, or worse? I think I know.

Which is why SI always indicate when they have confidence they can deliver. Same thing this time - please bear with us.

Same old poppycock I am afraid Matt. No, I wouldnt be happy if the proposed set date wasnt met, however you are a business offering a product for retail and at the end of the day you have an obligation to give your customers the information they deserve, after having faith and purchasing your product.

I think I speak for most when I say that if an initial patch release date wasnt met, we wouldnt be up in arms about it as long as a revised date WAS given. We just want to be informed!

Your answer Matt I afraid, is a cop out!

The whole industry has always done it and always will so whats the point in moaning. I should also point out that the game isn't broken either, mine works fine.

I also think its unfair to blame it all on me

I should point out that in my original post that the game was indeed playable. But, unfortunately when people like you accept having to wait a further 2-3 months to play a game in its full potential is the 'way it is' nothing will ever change.

It is the acceptance of this that means we have to wait every time a new version is released.

OK - the patch will be out next week.

Pop back to this thread for the next update - which'll be available - next week, around the time you're expecting the patch.

Not really that helpful or constructive, is it?

I'd rather deal in facts when I have them. SI have a proven history of fixing any key problems to an exceptional level. When they've done that, we'll let everyone know. Sorry that's not to your taste, but experience shows it's the best way of doing it.

dont see what all the fuss is about its not that far away. Least it doesnt need 6 or 7 patchs like some EA games and even after the patches are pretty unplayable

OK - the patch will be out next week.

Pop back to this thread for the next update - which'll be available - next week, around the time you're expecting the patch.

Not really that helpful or constructive, is it?

I'd rather deal in facts when I have them. SI have a proven history of fixing any key problems to an exceptional level. When they've done that, we'll let everyone know. Sorry that's not to your taste, but experience shows it's the best way of doing it.

I really appreciate your input on this Matt, however I am not sure that sarcasm will solve the problem.

I cannot believe for one moment that you guys dont even have an idea of when this will be available. As paying customers we simply would like to be given estimated time scales/dates.

I don't see what the fuss is about personally. Am really enjoying FM10.

You'd think some people would learn by now. Don't buy the game until patch 2 or 3, and play the previous year's version in the meantime if it bothers you that much. That might make the money men at Sega wake up, not going to happen though.

I mean the same happens every edition, though I haven't experienced bugs on this FM10 anything like some of the previous editions and am loving FM10. Imperfect, but definitely better than FM09 even in it's present state. Otherwise I would have re-installed 09 and waited for patches.

Coming on these boards doesn't help, seeing people whine every year. It kind of drags down the enjoyment of the game when all you see is the highlighting of the negativity and creates a frenzy of self-feeding on "this is wrong, that is wrong". Like sheep.

You ask for no flaming in this thread, and yet in your very first sentence that is what YOU have done.

You then go on to disrespect someone from SEGA who has taken the time to answer your abusive first post and what happens? You abuse him.

SI always let us know when a patch will be ready, WHEN IT IS READY. This is what the whole industry does and you really need to wise up on this fact, and I for one am grateful.

I'm going to go back to my game now, you know the one thats working fine for the majority of people?

OK - the patch will be out next week.

Pop back to this thread for the next update - which'll be available - next week, around the time you're expecting the patch.

Not really that helpful or constructive, is it?

I'd rather deal in facts when I have them. SI have a proven history of fixing any key problems to an exceptional level. When they've done that, we'll let everyone know. Sorry that's not to your taste, but experience shows it's the best way of doing it.

you could at least tell us wether its before xmas or not. every year we have to wait for 2 or 3 patches to fix these bugs/crashes. do you think being sacrcastic is the best thing to be doing???

i have stopped playing the game now....will wait until patch 10.2 comes out

you could at least tell us wether its before xmas or not. every year we have to wait for 2 or 3 patches to fix these bugs/crashes. do you think being sacrcastic is the best thing to be doing???

He said he can't give an indication as he doesn't know when release will be. It might not be an answer you like, but at least he's responded and is giving an honest one (answer). When pushed and pushed for a 'different' answer because people don't like the response given after that I would be sarcastic in his shoes. Worse.

I don't buy the game until what seems to be the 3rd and final patch (at least in the last couple of years comes out). For me that's when the game is released.

I then play it for the year so I get as much game play out of it as most people...

SI you have now been reported :

The Trade Descriptions Act 1968 is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom which prevents manufacturers, retailers or service industry providers from misleading consumers as to what they are spending their money on.

This law empowers the judiciary to punish companies or individuals who make false claims about the products or services that they sell.

Applying a false trade description to goods is a strict liability offence: provided it is shown that the description was applied and was false, the accused has to prove certain defences in order to escape conviction.

Each product sold must be as described, of satisfactory quality, and fit for purpose as described refers to any advert or verbal description made by the trader. Satisfactory quality covers minor and cosmetic defects as well as substantial problems and means that products must last a reasonable time but does not give any rights if a fault was obvious or pointed out at point of sale. Fit for purpose covers not only the obvious purpose of an item but also any purpose queried by the customer and given assurances about by the trader

Yes we're all paying customers and (some more than most obviously) we'd like an estimated date for release of the new patch. If that was possible, they'd give us an estimated release date. I doubt any game has ever said weeks in advance 'oh by the way there'll be a patch out in 5 weeks time' or whatever. People need to chill out, and quit asking when it'll be out or for an estimated date. When they have an estimated date, or a confirmed date, they'll let us know, as that's all they can do. The question has been asked, they've answered, so there's no point getting wound up about it, just carry on playing the game, and when they have info on the new patch, they'll share it with us.

SI you have now been reported :

The Trade Descriptions Act 1968 is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom which prevents manufacturers, retailers or service industry providers from misleading consumers as to what they are spending their money on.

This law empowers the judiciary to punish companies or individuals who make false claims about the products or services that they sell.

Applying a false trade description to goods is a strict liability offence: provided it is shown that the description was applied and was false, the accused has to prove certain defences in order to escape conviction.

Each product sold must be as described, of satisfactory quality, and fit for purpose as described refers to any advert or verbal description made by the trader. Satisfactory quality covers minor and cosmetic defects as well as substantial problems and means that products must last a reasonable time but does not give any rights if a fault was obvious or pointed out at point of sale. Fit for purpose covers not only the obvious purpose of an item but also any purpose queried by the customer and given assurances about by the trader

this is a bit extreme eh??

SI you have now been reported :

The Trade Descriptions Act 1968 is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom which prevents manufacturers, retailers or service industry providers from misleading consumers as to what they are spending their money on.

This law empowers the judiciary to punish companies or individuals who make false claims about the products or services that they sell.

Applying a false trade description to goods is a strict liability offence: provided it is shown that the description was applied and was false, the accused has to prove certain defences in order to escape conviction.

Each product sold must be as described, of satisfactory quality, and fit for purpose as described refers to any advert or verbal description made by the trader. Satisfactory quality covers minor and cosmetic defects as well as substantial problems and means that products must last a reasonable time but does not give any rights if a fault was obvious or pointed out at point of sale. Fit for purpose covers not only the obvious purpose of an item but also any purpose queried by the customer and given assurances about by the trader

Are you drunk?

You ask for no flaming in this thread, and yet in your very first sentence that is what YOU have done.

You then go on to disrespect someone from SEGA who has taken the time to answer your abusive first post and what happens? You abuse him.

SI always let us know when a patch will be ready, WHEN IT IS READY. This is what the whole industry does and you really need to wise up on this fact, and I for one am grateful.

I'm going to go back to my game now, you know the one thats working fine for the majority of people?

You go back to your game. As I said in my OP, I dont care for all of those obvious people who will come back and flame me.

As for calling my OP abusive you couldnt have actually read it. I even stated that I am grateful for all of the obvious hard work that they have put in....I even commended them. However this doesnt mean that as a consumer I have to be happy just because this is what the past has taught us.

The whole point of this thread was for Sega to recognise that such obvious mistakes/bugs are unacceptable.

AGAIN, for all of those who want to call me a moaner..

Well done on what WILL BE a brilliant game. A lot of effort has gone in to it, it is just a shame that the testers you used to carry out the tests yet again made some obvious mistakes.

I couldnt give a rats toosh where Matt is from. He is a normal guy, like myself who has a job to do. We all have complaints to deal with in our jobs, so I am afraid he will have to deal with it.

here is the reason.s why iv reported them

this was posted by Byron Atkinson-Jones

Sports Interactive on the bugs forum http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=161196&page=8

posts 737

Here's the truth:

Yes there were reports of memory problems back in August but they were thought to be fixed and it appeared they were. Internally we work from a central repository that has implications on data paths and the upshot is that if the bug is what it appears to be then there was no way we could have seen it. So, we didn't. The only time I was able to repro it was by running from the same disk you did when you bought a copy of the game. When I run from the development build I didn't. QA up until release date were also pretty much running from the development version. That's a problem in our testing processes at the dev level and believe me lessons have been learned from this.

SI you have now been reported :

The Trade Descriptions Act 1968 is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom which prevents manufacturers, retailers or service industry providers from misleading consumers as to what they are spending their money on.

This law empowers the judiciary to punish companies or individuals who make false claims about the products or services that they sell.

Applying a false trade description to goods is a strict liability offence: provided it is shown that the description was applied and was false, the accused has to prove certain defences in order to escape conviction.

Each product sold must be as described, of satisfactory quality, and fit for purpose as described refers to any advert or verbal description made by the trader. Satisfactory quality covers minor and cosmetic defects as well as substantial problems and means that products must last a reasonable time but does not give any rights if a fault was obvious or pointed out at point of sale. Fit for purpose covers not only the obvious purpose of an item but also any purpose queried by the customer and given assurances about by the trader

I work in commercial and contractual law, not with a law degree, but I can tell you that you are completely wasting your time.

The game is as described, is of satisfactory quality and is fit for purpose in legal terms. Take the fact that your defenders, or the match engine isn't realistic to perfection or whatever to your solicitor or Citizens Advice in the morning. See what they say.

If it wouldn't install on 1000's of computers of x or y spec when it said it would....kept crashing wholesale or was just a new skin on FM09 without any of the added features advertised you might have a case. But that's not the case.

here is the reason.s why iv reported them

this was posted by Byron Atkinson-Jones

Sports Interactive on the bugs forum http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=161196&page=8

posts 737

Here's the truth:

Yes there were reports of memory problems back in August but they were thought to be fixed and it appeared they were. Internally we work from a central repository that has implications on data paths and the upshot is that if the bug is what it appears to be then there was no way we could have seen it. So, we didn't. The only time I was able to repro it was by running from the same disk you did when you bought a copy of the game. When I run from the development build I didn't. QA up until release date were also pretty much running from the development version. That's a problem in our testing processes at the dev level and believe me lessons have been learned from this.

I think you need to rethink your priorities, rediculous.

But please do let us know how you get on with this, I look forward to the laughs coming from the regulator.

I work in commercial and contractual law, not with a law degree, but I can tell you that you are completely wasting your time.

The game is as described, is of satisfactory quality and is fit for purpose in legal terms. Take the fact that your defenders, or the match engine isn't realistic to perfection or whatever to your solicitor or Citizens Advice in the morning. See what they say.

If it wouldn't install on 1000's of computers of x or y spec when it said it would....kept crashing wholesale or was just a new skin on FM09 without any of the added features advertised you might have a case. But that's not the case.

the game was sent out .but wasnt tested from the disk ..like it says errors was made

When I run from the development build I didn't. QA up until release date were also pretty much running from the development version. That's a problem in our testing processes at the dev level and believe me lessons have been learned from this.

in other words is wasnt fit for purpose in legal terms

I don't see what the fuss is about personally. Am really enjoying FM10.

You'd think some people would learn by now. Don't buy the game until patch 2 or 3, and play the previous year's version in the meantime if it bothers you that much. That might make the money men at Sega wake up, not going to happen though.

I mean the same happens every edition, though I haven't experienced bugs on this FM10 anything like some of the previous editions and am loving FM10. Imperfect, but definitely better than FM09 even in it's present state. Otherwise I would have re-installed 09 and waited for patches.

Coming on these boards doesn't help, seeing people whine every year. It kind of drags down the enjoyment of the game when all you see is the highlighting of the negativity and creates a frenzy of self-feeding on "this is wrong, that is wrong". Like sheep.

And like sheep all of you guys say 'just deal with it'.

Lets be honest, we all follow what we find acceptable.

Yourself and others find it acceptable.

Myself and others dont.