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View Full Version : Lose-Lose for the simple player.



OrangeBurn
25-11-2009, 19:31
I'm a simple player. If I come home, worked up, or just needing to relax or chill out, right up until FM10, Football Manager was a way of relaxing. Sticking it on, choosing a tactic, and winning. Not anymore. It's no longer a game. It's a task. It's boring. Sports Interactive have made a game which forces us to work, after we come home from work. Here's what I mean.

Tactics:

What happened to being able to choose a tactic, and winning, drawing or losing? Why must we have to start the game using a 4-4-2, then change it to a 4-3-3, then a 4-5-1, then make constant shouts, constand tweaks (which take forever and a day), just to watch the AI smash us to bits on "90+4" minutes with a rocket from 30 yards. We aren;t talking 1 game, were talking 10+ games per season. The amount of long shots in a game are shocking. I could have 3 players attacking waiting for a through ball and my MC smashes it from 40 yards WAY over the bar. thats which all my players on Long Shots - Rarely.
Even with Tackling at easy, EVERY challenge is worthy of a booking. Every jump, every nudge, it's ridiclulous.

The average gamer doesn't want to have to try and teak EVERY 5 minutes to win. That's boring. It feels like there is SO much to do before a game, and when it's done and you go into the game and get leathered 6-0, you just can't be bothered going to all the hastle again. Personally of course.

When I play a 4-4-2, if I play wide, I get ripped open with through balls, if I play narrow, I get ripped open by crosses, if I play deep there is too much space for long shots and through balls, if I push up, long balls destroy my team.

For me, the Loyal, simple gamer, this is Lose-Lose.

Wonky
25-11-2009, 19:37
1. SI have admitted there are too many goals from long shots. It will be tweaked for the next patch.
2. I now ignore my assistant's advice during a game. I am much happier (lol) and I win more games. I don't tweak except to make substitutions, usually.
3. Check out the tactics forum and try some out. You might find something you like.

Hershie
25-11-2009, 19:38
You don't need to tweak your tactic every 5 minutes. You need to play to your strengths and to the oppositions weaknesses, and then counter any tactical changes the oppositions makes. No team EVER keeps the same tactical shape for every game, nor the same approach, and rarely do they go the match without trying to hold onto a lead, grab another goal, keep the ball etc, when they need to.

Btw, I have to commend you. Most ranters can't spell 'ridiclulous'. :)

(Btw, that 'btw' was tongue in cheek - I'm surprised no-one has pointed that out yet ;))

OrangeBurn
25-11-2009, 19:39
I've spent some considerable time in the Tactic sub forum. But tactic only work for a certain period of time, before AI figures it out and bang you're out.

Xirtama
25-11-2009, 19:39
Re:For Wonky

3.Players wanna to create by them self,not to download,tick and press continue every time,it sucks,but by the way the game is hard,i won promotion with Norwich in first season,now in CCC i have W0 D2 L6 nice yeah ?

TheRiddler
25-11-2009, 19:41
That sounds pretty realistic to me - you've gone up a division, and you're struggling.

/shrug

Xirtama
25-11-2009, 19:43
Oh but Owen can't score in 2nd league any goals in 10 matches ? :/ it sucks,i lost for Derby which is 22nd 4:0 nice yeah.My old tactic with which i were promoted doesn't work anymore,its realistic ?

OrangeBurn
25-11-2009, 19:44
You don't need to tweak your tactic every 5 minutes. You need to play to your strengths and to the oppositions weaknesses, and then counter any tactical changes the oppositions makes. No team EVER keeps the same tactical shape for every game, nor the same approach, and rarely do they go the match without trying to hold onto a lead, grab another goal, keep the ball etc, when they need to.

Btw, I have to commend you. Most ranters can't spell 'ridiclulous'. :)

That's exactly what I mean but, spending all the time changing everything is extremely boring. Plus you get a a lack of knowledge from your coaches. I get told about height etc. I don't need to know they have a height advantage, what I do what to know is how I should play, should I play wide or not etc.

Wonky
25-11-2009, 19:49
Re:For Wonky

3.Players wanna to create by them self,not to download,tick and press continue every time,it sucks,but by the way the game is hard,i won promotion with Norwich in first season,now in CCC i have W0 D2 L6 nice yeah ?

I play FM10, so you should probably speak for just yourself. Some like to create tactics, some like to download them.

Xirtama
25-11-2009, 19:51
U can say "I'm playing FM10" when you just download everythink? its lame.

Wonky
25-11-2009, 19:51
That's exactly what I mean but, spending all the time changing everything is extremely boring. Plus you get a a lack of knowledge from your coaches. I get told about height etc. I don't need to know they have a height advantage, what I do what to know is how I should play, should I play wide or not etc.

I don't tweak like he does and I've won the premier with Everton in the first season and am currently managing Stevenage in the Blue Square Premier (we're the champions, just ending the season). I pay attention to my staff for the width, tempo and defensive line, provided they agree with each other. Aside from that, I just use the same tactic every game.

Tweaking all the time is not worth it, imo, unless you enjoy doing it.

Xirtama
25-11-2009, 19:53
So how you create good ttactics,i don't think so your ass man gives you everythink on the golden plate... tell your knowledge...

watsonsclarets
25-11-2009, 19:58
The truth is yes it more subversive game and more tactical than ever and we as you and i have had to change as si has changed and unfortunatly for some it has become more technical. I thik the plug and play tactics will work with bigger teams but as a lower league manager i have found the game to be getting closer to the real thing and yes i must make 30 to 40 little changes in a game. The truth is it has taken me time to get into the new game as in the previous versions i had a mentality of score one more than you do but this year after talking to some tactics gurus (wwfan) i have become more into the game than ever before but i think the game offers people the option to play how they want to and i feel in respect to this the balance is correct. Don't get me wrong the are little tweeks to be made but i play the game 100 per cent in the fact every second is watched player loaded and the game takes time of which some i don't have but like i said i think there is enough in the game to play how you want and that is the way it should be

Xirtama
25-11-2009, 20:00
I can truly say:. This game is looked by the corner from which you can see only big clubs. But how about lower league clubs? at this version manage these clubs is to hard.

Hershie
25-11-2009, 20:04
I can truly say:. This game is looked by the corner from which you can see only big clubs. But how about lower league clubs? at this version manage these clubs is to hard.
Obviously it's harder to manage, say, Barrow than Arsenal. In LLM it's extra important that you play to the strengths and weaknesses of your players.

No use complaining about your defenders giving the ball away all the time if their passing and creativity are below 5 and there's no-one close for them to pass to.

PDAquinas
25-11-2009, 20:04
I find it's better to keep roughly the same tactics. If I am losing with 20 mins to go I will use a couple of touchline shouts and have had success with that but as a rule you are changing things for changes sake.

Hershie
25-11-2009, 20:05
I find it's better to keep roughly the same tactics. If I am losing with 20 mins to go I will use a couple of touchline shouts and have had success with that but as a rule you are changing things for changes sake.
:thup: Consistancy is essential.

watsonsclarets
25-11-2009, 20:15
I can truly say:. This game is looked by the corner from which you can see only big clubs. But how about lower league clubs? at this version manage these clubs is to hard.

I have never managed a big club in a big league i agree it is harder but more enjoyable and unfortuntly more time consuming

Aaron Armstrong
25-11-2009, 20:17
I rarely change my formation, just my mentality with the occasional shout - for example control/counter mentality when winning at home/away with retain possession/get ball forward.

Xirtama
25-11-2009, 20:18
In my carrier in Football Manager Series i play only with lower leagues,i play this game from FM 2007 series,played with AFC Wimbledon,Telford,Notts County,Nottm Forest,Wolves whats all i haven't started game with Barclay Premier League team,best my carrier was with Wolves then in 2 seasons,i won everythink(FM 2008) so i think its too hard looking for what in FM 2010,i was sacked in 2nd season with Bristol Rovers,becouse finished 7th,now im with Norwich in first season got promoted,but now im stuttering.

watsonsclarets
25-11-2009, 20:22
i dont make changes for changing sake but i think 7 things are key

1. Get the best out of your players by knowing your players
2. Limit there players as much as possible
3. Luck we all need it
4. Play to your strengths
5. Formations are only a tool for your players to play in and not for how you play.
6. Get players in who suit how you play and sometimes it not always statistical better players
7. Learn to adapt to situations and think out of the box easier said than done in my opinion and with this i mean tactics and formations

All simple things i know but many just plug and play and like i said i have a little time and i use it in these 7 areas

And first season i finished 6th in championship and i currently leading championship after 10 games so don't take my advise but it works for me and that the key

and one last take do we need success to enjoy the game or do we enjoy it for what it is
everybody experience of the game is different

watsonsclarets
25-11-2009, 20:28
I've spent some considerable time in the Tactic sub forum. But tactic only work for a certain period of time, before AI figures it out and bang you're out.

To be fair if you keep the same tactic and by this i mean not change anything in rl you would get found out so little subtile changes whilst not changing the world could make the diffrence

Xirtama
25-11-2009, 20:31
I don't think this game looks to players by the realistic side,i don't think players in real affects how they will play in game,it would be amazing,but its too far now,in this game everythink affects players attributes,if you will have 20/20 you will play amazing,but don't if Messi likes to dive,it would be awesome in diving at the game.

watsonsclarets
25-11-2009, 20:36
si database is without doubt 2nd to none and i agree the people i see on a Saturday are different to the game but there as real as you could get them bar a few data errors and to be fare no game comes close.

And if you have see any errors in the game player wise go to the data part of the forum and they they will listen to your point.