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2Pacalypse
25-11-2009, 16:22
I'm going to have a breakdown playing this thing, seriously .. i usually try to stay away from the tactics forum because i want to feel that every bit of success and/or failure is due to my decisions but enough is enough.

If i play defensively with two defensive midfielders and a low defensive line i conceed from long shots

If i play in a 4 4 2 i conceed from through balls

If my team is playing well and i manage to score, the other goddamn team scores two in two attacks

If im winning, the other team gets a penalty at the end of the match ..

If nothing like the stuff said before happens it because some .. *ahem* .. player, who just happens to have 17 passing, passes the ball backwards where there is only an opposition player

I'm about to turn religious because of this game, if someone has any tips or .. i dont know .. whatever, i get exausted just thinking about it .. please tell me

PS: I'm managing one of the worst teams in Portugal (Liga Sagres) but im currently in 2013 so this situation should be different by now .. i can't believe in FM 09 i managed to get Vauxhall from Blue Square North to the premiership in six or seven years and now i can't even finish in 9th place ..

mightyqpr
25-11-2009, 16:49
i have the same problem, every game, iv stopped playing it untill there is some sort of pacth released, there must be, cos the defending and long shots cant be right.!!!

2Pacalypse
25-11-2009, 17:11
UPDATE: Here it goes again .. was winning and dominating the match against Braga, one of their players even got a red card .. then they had two shots on target two goals .. missing FM 09 was one of my worst nightmares but yeah there you go, i give up.

Bababui
25-11-2009, 17:46
Work on your defensive tactics and shouts. There are strategies to help contain the opposition.

lutontown1991
25-11-2009, 17:48
Trial and error. You will master tactics in time.

Now on your bike and start working on your tactics :thup:

Chillax :cool:

tonif
25-11-2009, 18:06
Which club are you managing, Naval?

2Pacalypse
25-11-2009, 18:41
Bababui & lutontown1991: Believe me, i had my share of experiments, the last one was a save i started just to experiment different tactics, i finally settled with one that got me a 1-1 against Real Madrid, 3-0 victory against West Ham and a 2-0 victory against Setubal .. competely dominated the last two matches, West Ham had 0% of successful crosses .. the one with Real Madrid wasn't, obviously, as easy, either team could get the win .. so i used that tactic and it was working for a while considering the expectations of the team i was managing but after a while the players just gave up.

tonif: Yes im managing Naval.



Edit: forgot to say, i was managing Benfica in that save against those 3 teams

BigCisHere
25-11-2009, 19:12
I'm playing with Athletic, and I did notice these problems when I was playing other save games. I am now doing something different with Athletic, because they are not one of the stronger teams in their league.

So I play my defensive line deep, tell them to stand off, and don't close anyone down or tight mark anyone. I very rarely concede long shots anymore. I still do concede dumb goals now and again, but hey, that happens in real life. I just shout at my players about how stupid they are, and also question their heritage before I get on with it.

Currently up to 8th in the Spanish league after 13/14 games. Qualified from my group in the Europa League (lol wrote UEFA Cup first time) with Amkar Perm, Benfica and FC Twente the other teams. 4 wins and 1 draw so far.

So let's explore this, you say you play with Naval who are one of the weakest teams, yet you play the same tactics as you did with Benfica?

The difference in class between those 2 teams is large. Just because a tactic works with one, does not mean it will work with the other. You must make a tactic that allows you to use your players the best you can.

I would not play the same way with Athletic as I do with Arsenal for example, and I would not play with Arsenal the same way I do with Athletic :)

stokes_83
25-11-2009, 19:15
How good is your team? You say you have one of the worst teams.....which would means you should lose a lot more often than not....no?
You can tweak your tactics until the cows come home but if your players are no good then often your plan will not be executed properly.

FYI: The passing attribute is the art of moving the ball.....not making the decision on where to move it. If he passed it straight to an opponent that would be his decisions, composure, anticipation, etc....ratings not the actual passing motion itslef.

2Pacalypse
25-11-2009, 19:35
BigCisHere: Right, but since im already in 2013 the players i have are not the ones that start in Naval, so even if i experiment in another save with Naval the same way i did with Benfica its not going to make a big difference .. unless the team reputation is more important than the quality of its players .. which i hope for SI's sake its not the case..

stokes83 Like i said, im in 2013 so the players have changed, excluding Sporting, Porto and Benfica for obvious reasons, my assistant manager tells me before each match my team as an advantage on almost everything, so i dont think im suppose to lose this many points

by the way, the player i was talking about has 17 passing, 17 composure, 14 decisions, 16 antecipation, 12 concentration .. considering my team i would say he's one hell of a player but he has already screwd up a few times like this, i dont want to be THAT guy, but sometimes the game does seem to make you go through some strange crap to make you suffer.

PDAquinas
25-11-2009, 19:53
I'm not being inflamatory but I am not sure I agree.
I've never played FM before FM10 and am loving it. Part of the reason I am loving it is I think the difficulty is justifiably high. It is effectively a simulator and as such there is very little likelyhood of taking over a team without cheating and making them quickly into winners with a couple of player changes and my favourite tactics.
As an aside to my main save (in which I am I am running a save as the mighty Queens Park (Scottish 3rd division semi-pros but own hampden park 52500 all seater) (you cannot beat sitting nowhere near 150 or so others watching dire football in a 52500 all seater-they do a mean bovril and pie at half time as well) and used the editor to free them from debt and gave them a sugardaddy and a high allowable wage structure. Have signed a few very aged but distinctly good players and a couple of very good kids to make my team the stand out in the Scottish 3rd and have just finished the first season. I absolutely wiped the floor with the division. Lost 1 out of 36 games and I doubt my tactics are even particularly good.
My conclusion is -you will do well if you can build a significantly better team than the ones around you and your tactics are as good or better than average. Surely that is how it is meant to be. The trick is getting your tactics to compensate for having an average team to win the division but you are playing against AI 'professional' managers. It should be difficult.

2Pacalypse
25-11-2009, 20:13
Ok, there are a lot of variables to consider, but just the fact that every first-division-player wannabe can score from whatever distance they chose is enough to make me go nuts .. im talking about players with less than 12 in long shots, bare in mind i play with 2 defensive midfielders, its hard enough to have some space to shoot let alone score so easily, every player is a Steven Gerrard in this so called "polished" game.

You know why everybody in Portugal remembers the goal Fellipe Bastos scored against Belenenses? .. because it was a long shot.

Apparently someone from SI has said they are looking at this problem .. that takes away the whole purpose of beta testing, i see this every single match, they didnt saw it in a year? Come on..

By the way, are you playing with or without the patch?

ANDEHLSON
25-11-2009, 20:32
I never conceded a long shot in the Portuguese league :D (December 2010. stopped for a while :p)

Just out of curiosity... in your game do Porto and Benfica get thumped too often? In my game Porto lost 1-6 vs Nacional and 0-5 against Rio Ave, Benfica lost 5-0 at home vs Naval and a few more... (I was managing Sporting) Im finding too many smaller clubs crushing bigger clubs too often <_<

2Pacalypse
25-11-2009, 20:37
no, not like that lol .. but they tie and lose quite often.

Benfica won 15-0 against Oeiras for the Cup though, with Marcel scoring 8 goals ..

ANDEHLSON
25-11-2009, 20:45
with Marcel scoring 8 goals ..

:eek: :eek: (Keirrison scored 6 in 4 matches here + Caicedo was CL's top scorer :p :D)

2Pacalypse
25-11-2009, 20:51
lol jesus christ .. Marcel + Keirrison + Caicedo = Lethal in the game .. laughable in real life :D

paganizer
25-11-2009, 20:53
I really want to play FM2010, but I also put my game on hold until patch. Team performs so inconsistent it's a joke. It's impossible to work out a decent tactic for me, when one game goes 5-5, next i lose at home to weak team and then I win 2-1 away against number 1 and the performances are miles apart. I just can't see anything from the games even when watching full games ... there is no pattern ... it all seems random.

I don't know - maybe it's because you HAVE to use shouts constantly? I just dont like them. I prefer working out my tactics prematch, not using those annoying shouts to counter the many AI moves.

Hope the next patch is out soon and makes the ME work more like fm2009

Danny Dire
25-11-2009, 23:02
If i play in a 4 4 2 i conceed from through balls

You could try 5-4-1 with a sweeper behind the convential back four. If he has high anticipation, positioning, concentration and decisions he should cut out the through balls.


If i play defensively with two defensive midfielders and a low defensive line i conceed from long shots

With the midfielders have one as a ball winning midfielder and one as a defencive midfielder in the middle of the park. Ball winner se to man marking and DM set to zonal.

Also set one CB. The one with high tackling, heading, agression and bravery as a Stopper, he should help stop long range shots.

I hope this helps and good luck mate.

2Pacalypse
25-11-2009, 23:17
You could try 5-4-1 with a sweeper behind the convential back four. If he has high anticipation, positioning, concentration and decisions he should cut out the through balls.



With the midfielders have one as a ball winning midfielder and one as a defencive midfielder in the middle of the park. Ball winner se to man marking and DM set to zonal.

Also set one CB. The one with high tackling, heading, agression and bravery as a Stopper, he should help stop long range shots.

I hope this helps and good luck mate.


Thanks :thup: i'll try that tomorrow

Wee Aja
26-11-2009, 00:12
Am I right in assuming that the OP is sort of ranting, but at the same time is conceding that it may indeed be his tactics, and is asking for advice on the tactical side of the game, as opposed to just FM-bashing? That's a first on here :D

It's a tired old statement, but when things are going wrong and you are struggling to get results, it more often than not genuinely in your tactics (to a certain degree). I know this because I'm enjoying FM fully now for the first time in a few years, I put this down to being able to understand the tactical side of the game much more on this version.
After a bit of trial and error with tactics, I have Liverpool playing brilliantly, solid at the back, 10 points clear in the Premiership, Quarter-finals of the Champions League and just put Arsenal out of the FA cup.

Danny Dire's advice is worth following, but make sure you pay close attention to how you are conceding goals and do your best to counter the opposition using all the tools available to you. Don't be afraid to tinker and tweak either. Good luck :thup:

2Pacalypse
26-11-2009, 10:29
Am I right in assuming that the OP is sort of ranting, but at the same time is conceding that it may indeed be his tactics, and is asking for advice on the tactical side of the game, as opposed to just FM-bashing? That's a first on here :D

It's a tired old statement, but when things are going wrong and you are struggling to get results, it more often than not genuinely in your tactics (to a certain degree). I know this because I'm enjoying FM fully now for the first time in a few years, I put this down to being able to understand the tactical side of the game much more on this version.
After a bit of trial and error with tactics, I have Liverpool playing brilliantly, solid at the back, 10 points clear in the Premiership, Quarter-finals of the Champions League and just put Arsenal out of the FA cup.

Danny Dire's advice is worth following, but make sure you pay close attention to how you are conceding goals and do your best to counter the opposition using all the tools available to you. Don't be afraid to tinker and tweak either. Good luck :thup:


:D i did my homework .. if this was just a rant all i would get would be "stop playing then" and "goodbye" and that sort of stuff lol ..but yeah i got to have a little more patience, luckily the season just ended, i have more time now.

r0x0r
26-11-2009, 16:15
If i play defensively with two defensive midfielders and a low defensive line i conceed from long shots

If i play in a 4 4 2 i conceed from through balls

If my team is playing well and i manage to score, the other goddamn team scores two in two attacks

If im winning, the other team gets a penalty at the end of the match ..

If nothing like the stuff said before happens it because some .. *ahem* .. player, who just happens to have 17 passing, passes the ball backwards where there is only an opposition player


To take them one at a time...

With the low defensive line, are your midfielders closing down and denying space? Are your strikers hassling their midfield/defence? If not you are just creating a huge gap for them to play in. If your defenders are closing down to counter this, you just open huge holes.

The 4-4-2 through balls thing, maybe try a sweeper-keeper? Or again, work on giving them less time in midfield to play the through ball?

When you are playing well, your team seems to shut off defensively. Sounds like they need to be more disciplined. Late in the game conceeding a penalty? tired legs in defence maybe? And the final issue, 17 passing means they get the ball where they want it at the pace they want it to arrive usually... Not that the choices they make are particularly smart. That's more an issue with decisions i'd say? :-p

tefal
26-11-2009, 16:20
i'm in the same situation as you and it isn't my tactics. i had three frustrating seasons in charge of the arsenal and thought it could be my tactics so i went into the data editor and stole a few players. my team to face bordeaux at home in the champions league was akinfeev, lahm, vargas, terry, pique, velouso, inesta, ronaldo, van persie, tevez and rooney. i got beat 7-1.

milco35
26-11-2009, 16:30
When the Players are winning its a great game and its the users tactics...but when the players are losing its not the user tactics? Hmm...

I never been a good FM player but must say that for me personally this version is working out pretty good so far. I made a tactic that is holding out for me at the moment. And yes it took me a while to get it working but now it does. I think its really a balance between tactic and the players you have available to carry out the tactic. Its not a matter of using the tactics creator and off you go winning the league.

In my opinion the tactics creator sets the outlines of the tactic you want to play but after that you have to go in and tweak it to the capabilities of the players you have available in your team. That worked for me anyways..


Playing in tier10 now in england and only conceded 5 in 13 games. am leading the table while predicted to be in the 10th spot.

Cheers and good luck!

krasiv07
30-11-2009, 08:43
For me,with the new tactic screen, FM10 is way much better than FM09. Now I'm easily put the right setting for the tactic I want to play. In my first season I took Alcorcon win the League 2B2 and get promoted. In the start of 2nd season I was aproached by Athletic and after half season I'm in position 4 (behind Barcelona, Madrid, and Valencia). And for both team I used the same tactics, using Attacking and Control, never change it even against the big teams. Yeah sure, my Alcorcon once was beaten 6-0, and my Athletic got beaten 6-3 by Sevilla, but seeing my team position I cannot say I'm dissapointed with this game.

For they who keep blaming the game, just make sure you choose the right team, players, and tactic. I quit my other save using Dynamo Dresden just because their players are sucks with high salary and I cannot get rid off them to save the wage budget for better players.

toon army 06
30-11-2009, 08:48
I'm going to have a breakdown playing this thing, seriously .. i usually try to stay away from the tactics forum because i want to feel that every bit of success and/or failure is due to my decisions but enough is enough.

If i play defensively with two defensive midfielders and a low defensive line i conceed from long shots

If i play in a 4 4 2 i conceed from through balls

If my team is playing well and i manage to score, the other goddamn team scores two in two attacks

If im winning, the other team gets a penalty at the end of the match ..

If nothing like the stuff said before happens it because some .. *ahem* .. player, who just happens to have 17 passing, passes the ball backwards where there is only an opposition player

I'm about to turn religious because of this game, if someone has any tips or .. i dont know .. whatever, i get exausted just thinking about it .. please tell me

PS: I'm managing one of the worst teams in Portugal (Liga Sagres) but im currently in 2013 so this situation should be different by now .. i can't believe in FM 09 i managed to get Vauxhall from Blue Square North to the premiership in six or seven years and now i can't even finish in 9th place ..

your not going ti win games if you sit back and let teams attack you.

Machetero
30-11-2009, 12:00
Convert tactics to "classic" and use your FM 2009 tactics. Should work.
At least - worked for me in a network game with my friend (he as Shakhtar Donetsk, me as Dinamo). Last season was a nightmare with my team finishing champ on the 5th position and oodles of tactics tried.
New season I've won 4 out of 4 on the start with 12-1 goal diffirence. Good old tactics.

Kenwyne
30-11-2009, 14:06
And the final issue, 17 passing means they get the ball where they want it at the pace they want it to arrive usually... Not that the choices they make are particularly smart. That's more an issue with decisions i'd say? :-p

Making illogical passes (usually backwards) to the opposition when the AI needs a goal late on has been a problem in FM for years.

I assume it's the AI pressing, but the match display just shows it as a stupid pass sideways or backwards when there is absolutely no need to, or a badly misplaced pass. Very frustrating.

TheStoneMonkey
30-11-2009, 14:35
Convert tactics to "classic" and use your FM 2009 tactics. Should work.

Exactly what I was about to say. I struggled with the tactics wizard for about half a season and couldn't get ANY consistency. I knew the players were at least good enough for the division, but were just all over the place. Switched to classic mode, slotted in my home and away tactics from FM09, and suddenly my lads looked like footballers again. I went on to storm up and win the Blue Square North and am now going great in the in the BS Prem.

ParkLife
30-11-2009, 16:32
everytime i go 3-1 up in the 2nd half then the opposition team somehow pull it back to 3-3 just before the announcement to how long the added time will be, i no longer celebrate going 3-1 up as i used too!

Machetero
01-12-2009, 09:37
everytime i go 3-1 up in the 2nd half then the opposition team somehow pull it back to 3-3 just before the announcement to how long the added time will be, i no longer celebrate going 3-1 up as i used too!

Exactly. That happens a lot with new engine and tactical system - the team you are playing against goes in all-out-attack and score a ridiculous equalizer, despite the fact that through the whole match you were walking over them.

Again - convert to classic ;) Don't know, how good the current tacitcs are, but they (and tactic manual) need a huge overhaul. You may find a good tactic (or you may think that you adjusted is right as in FM 2009), but it will work for 3-10 games and than you will be ****ed-up.)
Though I'm talking about playing for an average team - new system can be good for top-teams and lower divisions.

_Asprilla_
01-12-2009, 12:09
i\'m in the same situation as you and it isn\'t my tactics. i had three frustrating seasons in charge of the arsenal and thought it could be my tactics so i went into the data editor and stole a few players. my team to face bordeaux at home in the champions league was akinfeev, lahm, vargas, terry, pique, velouso, inesta, ronaldo, van persie, tevez and rooney. i got beat 7-1.

7-1 ! .....what the??!

Deisler26
01-12-2009, 12:29
I'm loving the new tactics system. Although, it is frustrating to see it work how you want it, then lose to a disputed pen.

(note, I'm NOT complaining about the amount of penalties!)

graemeS
01-12-2009, 14:14
This game is too sophisticated for the programming, which is very simplistic.

That's why these problems are emerging. For example, 4-4-2 (my formation) = through balls and lots of goals conceded; 4 anchormen and a deep defensive line = long shots and headed goals. That's a simple result of a very unsophisticated piece of programming such that this alteration in tactics produces and excessive change in the game, which goes from one extreme to the other.

You're absolutely right.

A second example is the team tactics. It's ridiculous that one HAS to play either defensive, balanced or counter away and attacking, balanced or control at home
if you don't, you will do badly. Yet that is not realistic. Plenty
of teams in RL do well playing attacking football in every match and some do well playing counter-attacking football home and away - just look at Forest under Clough and Brazil today.
The programming is just not good enough.
The fact is, the most important factor should be the quality of your team.
the team is most imortant
the other 30% may depend on motivation, determination, morale, tactics and so forth
but FM2010 seems to give equal weighting to tactics and team quality to the extent you cannot win without giving the 'SI computer' what it wants to hear!

I'm managing Newcastle and generally do very well on these games. Due to the programming, I have taken a much more laid back approach to team development and, after 3 season, I'm heading towards thefew teams in the prem. That's pretty good yet in previous versions I'd be expecting to win the league by now and on fm 2010 I'm barely close to making the top 4.

The worst thing, however, is that youth players are just not developing normally. Their figures hardly move. It's yet another bug, I suspect and it will render the game worthless within 10 seasons because there will only be a handful of great players available by 2019