Just quit the game...

/huge rant.

Wow,

I finally had it with with FM2010.

What the hell am I supposed to do tactically in this game seriously.

I am up 3-0 vs PSG as Marseille.

Played some of the most fantastic football I have ever seen on FM and I was really happy.

Half time I tell my players to not let their performance drop.

Second half, every single player has "playing with confidence".

I decide to switch to a counter attacking game... (was playing control up until then.)

What happens next is just absolutely insane, stupid, unrealistic and complete shambles of morale/complacency coding...

They score 3 goals in 5 minutes.

Sort out your damn game, it happens time and time again and its not my fricken tactics.

Remove idiotic morale/complacency stuff from the game or at least tweak it to be lesser.

I know OM drew 5-5 on the weekend with Lyon, but this happens all the time.

I guess my players have poor "big games" stats or faulter under pressure, you know, the classic hidden stats, but this is a joke thats made me uninstall the game.

What else can I do here? When I play attacking and someoen comes back from 2-0 or more down people say "did u play more defensive?" when you play defensive people say stupid crap like "oh you played too defensive too early."

This stuff happens rarely, not every fricken game. Sometimes SI, players DO KNOW WHAT THE FRICKEN HELL they are doing. They don't turn to ******* as soon as they go 3-0 up and a manager tells them not to get complacent.

If nothing gets done, I just will have to forget that manager games exist.

/end rant

I challenge SI to look at my save game, my pkm and tell me EXACTLY what has gone wrong.

Im sick of seeing this crap.

Hard to argue.

I found <snip> I believe it belongs to you

I'm seeing these sorts of threads all the time mate. I won't insult you by saying 'it's your tactics', but I will say that I've yet to see anything like this in my own games so far. I can't explain it because, as I've said, I have no experience of this sort of thing on FM10 and as such can't possibly say why it happens. I do hope people read your thread, understand what you are saying and offer proper advice. I would also hope, too, that someone from SI take your post on board and try to help you out in whatever way.

Please note though that we are 'out of hours' for SI and they can't reply until at least tomorrow. By that time though you'll have 2 pages of the type of reply you have already bemoaned.

I won't insult you by saying 'it's your tactics'

But your location will

The game just ended 4-4.

3-0 up 4-3 down, I scored 93rd minute.

Shambles.

I just wanted to add, I never got this issue with managing Newcastle, and I play the same tactics.

Some reason, there are just hard headed players in my Marseille save that just turn to mush every time I play a top side.

So much for having a "determined" side.

The game just ended 4-4.

3-0 up 4-3 down, I scored 93rd minute.

Shambles.

If it is happening to you and not to others, it is something you are doing, not inherent to the game.

Look closely back through the pkm of the match and see how you conceded. Were players giving up too much space? Could you have done things to tighten up further or cope with specific threats any better? Were you unable to keep the ball, or were you unable to win the ball? Are you using classic or creator tactics? If the former, are you sure the counter settings are well though tthrough? If the latter, what shouts could you have used to combat what you were seeing?

i agree with much of your rant i laid a topic early last week titled 1goal2goal3goal4goal5goal not enough after leading 4 games 4 nil drew them all 4-4 and in another was 4-1 up and drew 5-5. My problem was tactics as people said but since then i tried everything counter narrow hassle sit off even let my ass man do team instructions at half time and result 3-3 draws regular. Thing is i think in many aspects si have made this game feel more like football and then my team just to put it simply stop moving i mean defenders stop tackling stop tracking just stand around. I love the game but the balance needs changing between attack and defensive phases of the game and to be fair like i said iam enjoying the game it feel more football apart from non existance defending and the slight importance of leading. I find it easy going 1 down and winning 2-1 or 3-1 but if i score first especially early on i fear

People say one on ones are missed to much i just think it is not that it to many are created but then again i geek it by playing full match.

But your location will

Yeah

In serious though, I do champion FM10 and back it to the hilt whilst telling gamers that it genuinely IS their tactics (most of the time), but I'm seeing countless players throwing away big leads. Then (as the OP explicitly said) they are told to play defensive, but if they play defensive and still lose they are told they made the mistake of playing defensive :confused:

'It's your tactics' isn't ALWAYS the answer, and even I can accept that. Something is wrong somewhere, when you look at the bigger picture.

The one thing I will say is that you say it happens time and time again, but you only provide one example. Can you actually give a run-down of stuff like this happening consistently?

I am using the new tactics version.

What can I do?

I played counter, and I have 2 quick forwards.

The goals were all the same, cross in box, confused defenders, ball hits them, they face the wrong way, striker taps it in. EVERY goal was the same.

As I said, they scored 3 goals in practically 5 minutes, hard to do anything. I conceeded 2 goals I believe even before the

At 4-3 down I took off 3 players who were all playing nervously and I went back to playing like a world class team.

I never had this issue before either, and A lot of people ARE having this problem.

Its just annoying.

Btw the striker who scored against me, also bagged 4 last time I played and has scored about 30 goals in 18 games.

Very realistic.

wwfan as a keen reader of your work i understand what your saying but i think the balance is wrong and like i said iam not really struggling i just feel it easier to be losing 1 nil in the first half and i know i can turn it around. If i get a 1 goal lead i think well by now know i need at least 2 and if iam 2 up then for some reason my players stop following any instruction until the other side is level. And for information before somebody says tactics dont iam currently 6th in the play offs iam happy with the game but feel there are 4 key areas to be looked at but then agin i understand the game is evolving

read this thread sounds familiar???

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=167835

The one thing I will say is that you say it happens time and time again, but you only provide one example. Can you actually give a run-down of stuff like this happening consistently?

Yes I'd like to know more results from the same game please Marek

Mike - I've read a few threads where players have listed countless matches akin to that of the OP's. I would find them for you but I'm a lazy bastard. So you can whistle for them.

Yeah

In serious though, I do champion FM10 and back it to the hilt whilst telling gamers that it genuinely IS their tactics (most of the time), but I'm seeing countless players throwing away big leads. Then (as the OP explicitly said) they are told to play defensive, but if they play defensive and still lose they are told they made the mistake of playing defensive :confused:

'It's your tactics' isn't ALWAYS the answer, and even I can accept that. Something is wrong somewhere, when you look at the bigger picture.

It is more likely to do with how they are playing defensively. I've seen a number people stating they Dropped Deeper, Hassled Oppponents and Got Stuck In.

So, you think retreating to the 6-yard box, then charging out and hacking at players is good defending? Really? You are opening as much space as possible and then violently reducing it, and you wonder why your players make mistakes/get skinned.

There is a total lack of clarity for many people in how different tactical strategies work. Going 'defensive' simply isn't enough. You need to know why and how you are defending, taking into account conditions, match score and opposing formations/players.

Is there a lack of clarity in the game in temrs of it explaining this. Yes. However, much of it mirrors real world tactical theory/practice and people with any level of footballing knowledge should take to it like a duck to water (or so I thought).

wwfan as a keen reader of your work i understand what your saying but i think the balance is wrong and like i said iam not really struggling i just feel it easier to be losing 1 nil in the first half and i know i can turn it around. If i get a 1 goal lead i think well by now know i need at least 2 and if iam 2 up then for some reason my players stop following any instruction until the other side is level. And for information before somebody says tactics dont iam currently 6th in the play offs iam happy with the game but feel there are 4 key areas to be looked at but then agin i understand the game is evolving

Again, I don't have this issue myself and pretty easily keep clean sheets/one goal leads. Again, it relates to a lack of clarity in what people are trying to do tactically/strategically. I can only help so much as I can't make the dynamic decisions for people. The more information I get on how the person was playing, the better the chance of my being able to pin down the reasons. Rants and basic 'I was defensive/it's a motivation/ME issue' info don't help at all.

The one thing I will say is that you say it happens time and time again, but you only provide one example. Can you actually give a run-down of stuff like this happening consistently?

It has only been happening consistently with my Marseille side.

With other clubs I managed, I was never having this issue.

As I have mentioned, there is definately something fundamentally wrong with my team in terms of their big games/complacency.

It gets to a point where I just get sick of playing.

I have no way to found out who is complacent as it doesnt always happen, and my team is always extreemly inconsistent. (found that with my other teams as well.)

As I stated, I want SI to tell ME what i did wrong, so I can understand and not rage at the game any more.

I have read the tactics forum, used to be a tester for SI and I even have the tactics theorm guide and I even play realistic balanced formations and change accordingly to my style.

I might put in a fresh pacey player towards end of games and play on the break etc.

I can tell you now, I have given away a lot of 2-0 leads or have just been unravelled by sides 3 to 6 + goals conceeding 3-4 goals in a matter of moments that does not even give me much of a chance to change anything tactically before its basically too late.

I know I ranted, who wouldn't after seeing another high scoring game.

I don't know if its just the french league or the games general state of defending.

If I conceeded goals that made sense I wouldn't argue.

Seeing a player kick a ball into his own players back, then getting torn apart on the subsequent counter attack, cross into the box, my player instead of clearing, turns the wrong way, ball hits his back and then the striker taps it in.

Why did my team, previously playing fantastic, suddenly lose their shape like that.

I sure was not going to play attacking 3-0 up or I would be ridiculed.

What was even more annoying is at 3-0 up I told my brother than I had the feeling it would end in a loss or a draw.

Rightly guessed.

Based on the number of threads and players that seem to be experiencing these bizarre comebacks, I would not be surprised if SI, in fact, coded this garbage into the game. Hard to believe, but this is SUCH a widespread phenomena, I don't know how else to explain it.

Either S.I. ridiculously overrates the occurence of, and impact of, complacency in a team leading a match, or they literally programmed these comebacks in. Either way, we expect better for the money we spend.

"Realism" is the stated goal. Cheating the incidences in a football match to make it more exciting and less realistic is a violation of SI's own ethos.

Fix it now.

The one thing I will say is that you say it happens time and time again, but you only provide one example. Can you actually give a run-down of stuff like this happening consistently?

read this thread sounds familiar???

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=167835

I read that before.

I have been adpoting SI's approach.

Quote - "Yeah don't want to say it's your tactics, but combining these and team talks in the correct manner should stop these. Don't be afraid to change formations to a more defensive outlook - or maybe even just play on the counter. If the opposition are going to push on desperately, why not just play on the break and pick them off as they push forward? Easier said than done I know... "

I also posted in that thread.

"

WHen im 2 or 3 goals up now, I put in a defensive midfielder in place of an attacking mid, trequartista or a play maker and and waste time, retain possession etc.

In 4 seasons of Fm10, ive never drawn or lost from 3+ up. I have however been nabbed from 2-0 up a few times but not since I change to contain/counter/defensive with some personnel changes.

I also take off nervous/complacent players and especially, tired ones.

Tired players tend to not chase/mark opponents properly and make more mistakes. "

This was when I was managing Newcastle, how things have changed managing Marseille.

This is definately not a tactics thing, but more of a player/squad mentality problem.

I probably picked a bad team talk.

Who knows.

wwfan i have tried everything and to put it in my terms the only way i have found a counter to what i call the COMEBACK is when for what ever the ai desides to come at me when iam 2 or 3 up i then think how do i keep a lead i tried all the defensive stuff but i found by going 4 defenders 3am 3 strikers and pumping it foward and hitting them hard so to speak ie you come forward and lose the ball i will hurt you only way ai listens and to be fair totally unrealistic but hey i now turn 4-0 from turning into 4-4 now i seem to score 1 more and they just lose heart and the comebacks off.

In real-life, dominating a football match and scoreline at half-time is a "GOOD THING", that "HELPS YOU WIN" the game, not the exact opposite!

Based on the number of threads and players that seem to be experiencing these bizarre comebacks, I would not be surprised if SI, in fact, coded this garbage into the game. Hard to believe, but this is SUCH a widespread phenomena, I don't know how else to explain it.

Either S.I. ridiculously overrates the occurence of, and impact of, complacency in a team leading a match, or they literally programmed these comebacks in. Either way, we expect better for the money we spend.

"Realism" is the stated goal. Cheating the incidences in a football match to make it more exciting and less realistic is a violation of SI's own ethos.

Fix it now.

It is not widespread. I know a huge number of people who have never experienced it. It is a user issue.

Again, I can help only if someone gives me a clear breakdown of how they were trying to protect a lead. For example, Marek_Hamsik's last post suggested he was looking to find a fourth on the counter rather than kill the game off.

wwfan i have tried everything and to put it in my terms the only way i have found a counter to what i call the COMEBACK is when for what ever the ai desides to come at me when iam 2 or 3 up i then think how do i keep a lead i tried all the defensive stuff but i found by going 4 defenders 3am 3 strikers and pumping it foward and hitting them hard so to speak ie you come forward and lose the ball i will hurt you only way ai listens and to be fair totally unrealistic but hey i now turn 4-0 from turning into 4-4 now i seem to score 1 more and they just lose heart and the comebacks off.

Break it down simply for me. How do you defend when leading?

1: Which Strategy do you employ?

2: Which Touchline Shouts do you use?

3: What opposing players do you target?

I have noticed what you mean, More aless every game there is a game with bags of goals. But i have been lucky for most of the high scoring games, I have been on the right end of the result.

I have noticed the best way on this FM is to Attack. I just play overload the entire match.

People might say thats why your having so many goals. But im afraid when i tried playing defensive, There was still alot of goals but i was mostly always on the wrong end of them.

With FM10 Attack really is the best form of defense from my expeirence, You won't keep clean sheets but you will win more often than not.

I took over Swansea at the Sheff Utd game. The QPR game i don't know what happened the 1st goal their winger ran right from the halfway line past eveyone and pass it into the net and the other 4 goals were all long range crackers. So 5 unstoppable goals did me in that game.

Edit: Here are the sort of general result's i got with Grimsby before i took over Swansea.

wwfan i dont just sit back anymore i go at them but to be fair i used to just keep the same shape and go like for like ie if they moved there say ball winning midfielder up into a more advanced position i had 2 choices ignore him or get to him(just a example)

and i feel wwfan that the lower down the pyrimid people go the more you will find this i feel the ratio of clean sheets and most people i know on the game who play champioship and league 1 find it very hard to keep any sort of lead

It doesn't have anything to do with level or aggression.

I conceded far less than a goal a game with Stalybridge in the BSN, and rarely played more aggressively than Control, more commonly using Defensive and Counter strategies. Now I'm in the BSP, I'm conceding a goal a game, which is fair enough as my defence isn't quite as good for the level.

I'm also scoring more though as I've improved my forward line and am thus prepared to be a little more expansive, using Attacking strategies at home against poorer sides.

It has everythign to do with beaing able to read matches and make the right tactical decisions. If you just keep going for it, then socrelines are bound to be high.

Twice in 3 weeks this happened to me with Hibs. Exactly the same as you. I was 3-0 up at Half Time v Celtic and told them not to let it drop - I lost 4-3. a couple of weeks later in the cup I was 5-2 up with 82 mins on the clock and lost 6-5.

My theory: teams can sometimes make comebacks and as this is virtual it can happen more frequently than in real life. Nothing to get overly worried about I think.

It's not as if we're all ending up bottom of the league because our teams are good in the first half. It is a very occasional issue in each season, and I'm sure it is an occasional issue in real life too.

wwfan

when leading old me

counter but push maybe a defensive midfielder into the hole if they do usually push a advanced playmaker there

retain posession clear to flanks

mark there best players USUALLY WINGERS AND ADVANCED PLAYMAKER ALSO I LIKE MY WINGERS TO CLOSE THERE FULL BACKS DOWN and hassle them if and only if i have the right calibre of player(ie tackling concentration,pace

now i go

outnumber

GET BALL FOWARD GET BALL IN BOX

OI NONE NOW

I basically go to this after they score if iam 2 or more up and so far it worked

Exactly the same as you. I was 3-0 up at Half Time v Celtic and told them not to let it drop - I lost 4-3.

That's a bad team talk ruining motivation. Don't let your performance drop should only be used when your side is leading against a side it should beat but playing horribly. Hibs leading Celtic 3-0 doesn't qualify. Pleased and play safe, keep ball for the 2nd half.

It is not widespread. I know a huge number of people who have never experienced it. It is a user issue.

Again, I can help only if someone gives me a clear breakdown of how they were trying to protect a lead. For example, Marek_Hamsik's last post suggested he was looking to find a fourth on the counter rather than kill the game off.

No I was trying to play with a little less risk, with 45 min still to play.

I was up 3-0, so I decided to play counter attacking, which usually means (sorry if I have misinterpreted SI's tactics) in the Italian term, contro-piede which means absorbing pressure, then hitting on the break and it is something teams do very often away from home and to protect leads.

I sometimes even go to defensive, play slow paced passing game. Still its either me coming back from 2+ goals down or me getting pinned back.

As stated, nothing I could do when defenders suddenly face the wrong way or cant even control a simple ball.

Tell me wwwfan, I bet you never see the incredible amount of idiotic pass backs that lead to a corner?

I see tonnes of them in my game, and many contribute to goals, I guess thats my tactics too.

If 1-2 tactical errors cause my players to make extreemly idiotic errors (i didnt get outplayed), my defenders were passing back for corners from half way, miscontrolling or trying to control balls off a corner, keeper stranded on line when a cross came in etc.)

If I need to do enormous amount of changes 3-0 up to avoid a 4-4 draw or a loss, that isnt a tactics problem, its poor coding from SI.

Teams do come back, high scoring games happen, but sometimes, you are down 3-0 or 4-0 you sort of resign to the fact you are going to lose. You don't go scoring 4 goals in 5 minutes because the opposition manager didnt put in an extra holding midfielder or took off an attacker.

You guys ask me for further proof.

Where is your proof?

Show me a list of REAL life occurrances where managers have lost 3 to 5 goal leads because they didnt play short passing or "try to close off the game."

Maybe just maybe because i play the game on full match i have seen a pattern of what i call comeback mode which in theory is a good one by si but maybe a little bit of a tinker is needed and now i know when comeback mode is on i feel realy that if i put 6 people around your box and your willing to take me on like they do in comeback mode then they will suffer but it not how i want to play the game i want realism and although iam not slating the game far from it i feel in many ways this game feel is more football then proberbly ever before little tweekes are needed.

Based on the number of threads and players that seem to be experiencing these bizarre comebacks, I would not be surprised if SI, in fact, coded this garbage into the game. Hard to believe, but this is SUCH a widespread phenomena, I don't know how else to explain it.

Either S.I. ridiculously overrates the occurence of, and impact of, complacency in a team leading a match, or they literally programmed these comebacks in. Either way, we expect better for the money we spend.

"Realism" is the stated goal. Cheating the incidences in a football match to make it more exciting and less realistic is a violation of SI's own ethos.

Fix it now.

As if they would programme it deliberately! I don't believe it's an issue, but even if it was, it wouldn't be there through deliberate action. SI have nothing to gain from ticking off the customer.

wwfan

when leading old me

counter but push maybe a defensive midfielder into the hole if they do usually push a advanced playmaker there

retain posession clear to flanks

mark there best players USUALLY WINGERS AND ADVANCED PLAYMAKER ALSO I LIKE MY WINGERS TO CLOSE THERE FULL BACKS DOWN and hassle them if and only if i have the right calibre of player(ie tackling concentration,pace

now i go

outnumber

GET BALL FOWARD GET BALL IN BOX

OI NONE NOW

I basically go to this after they score if iam 2 or more up and so far it worked

When you say mark their best players, what do you mean? Specific Mark?

How do you make your wingers close the FBs down?

Clear to Flanks and Counter suggests you are pushing for a third on the break rather than focusing on not conceding.

Have you tried Stay on Feet and Pass to Feet as both will reduce risk, with the former reducing fouls and the latter risky passes into space?

As if they would programme it deliberately! I don't believe it's an issue, but even if it was, it would be there through deliberate action. SI have nothing to gain from ticking off the customer.

You tell 'em Mike

Instead of going counter you should try going contain and use 'play even safer', as counter invites your opponents on to you when they are probably already seeking to attack at every opportunity.

I only tend to switch between two tactics starting with balanced philosophy and standard strategy then switching to the contain tactic I mentioned if I score first. Only if the opponent has scored and it's getting deep into the second half do I use a third tactical option which is change from a 4-5-1 to a 4-3-3, Overload and 'pump ball into box.

I'm not saying my tactics are a 'super tactic' that will have your team winning every match but just over halfway through the season and I am third in the German first division with Bayern and only 3 points behind the leaders having lost only twice in 19 games.

I also got back to back league titles and won the Scottish cup with the same tactical set-up as manager of Celtic, so if it's the game/match engine/coding etc that's at fault and not down to tactics how is it that the problems you're having are not happening to everyone that is playing the same game?

It is more likely to do with how they are playing defensively. I've seen a number people stating they Dropped Deeper, Hassled Oppponents and Got Stuck In.

I've seen others who have defended 'sensibly'

So, you think retreating to the 6-yard box, then charging out and hacking at players is good defending? Really? You are opening as much space as possible and then violently reducing it, and you wonder why your players make mistakes/get skinned.

Not all players who are suffering said problems are dumb

There is a total lack of clarity for many people in how different tactical strategies work. Going 'defensive' simply isn't enough. You need to know why and how you are defending, taking into account conditions, match score and opposing formations/players.

Granted. A lot of the game remains vague and can be trial and error for many

Is there a lack of clarity in the game in temrs of it explaining this. Yes. However, much of it mirrors real world tactical theory/practice and people with any level of footballing knowledge should take to it like a duck to water (or so I thought).

A case of 'Art imitating life', I suppose. Perhaps FM trying to mimic the real world too closely is the problem?

Richard, just so you know; I'm actually enjoying this version of FM [FAR] more than any other and my current Liverpool save is my best yet. I thank God for the new tactics system - I understand FM10 so much more nowadays and (finally!) feel as though I know what I'm doing. All I'm doing in threads like this is trying to see things from other people's point of view. I don't need help myself [far from it in fact], but I want to keep threads such as this going so others may get the help they need

That's a bad team talk ruining motivation. Don't let your performance drop should only be used when your side is leading against a side it should beat but playing horribly. Hibs leading Celtic 3-0 doesn't qualify. Pleased and play safe, keep ball for the 2nd half.

So a bad team talk and you lose a 3-0 lead.

Idiotic programming.

You contradict yourself mate.

You said prior that saying a "Team talk" "motivation" thing isnt helping, then you come back and say thats probably the cause of a come back.

Come on mate.

No I was trying to play with a little less risk, with 45 min still to play.

I was up 3-0, so I decided to play counter attacking, which usually means (sorry if I have misinterpreted SI's tactics) in the Italian term, contro-piede which means absorbing pressure, then hitting on the break and it is something teams do very often away from home and to protect leads.

The hitting on the break thing suggests you are looking for a third rather than protecting a lead. Which of the two are you really focusing on?

I sometimes even go to defensive, play slow paced passing game. Still its either me coming back from 2+ goals down or me getting pinned back.

Tell me wwfan, I bet you never see the incredible amount of idiotic pass backs that lead to a corner?

I see tonnes of them in my game, and many contribute to goals, I guess thats my tactics too.

If 1-2 tactical errors cause my players to make extreemly idiotic errors (i didnt get outplayed), my defenders were passing back for corners from half way, miscontrolling or trying to control balls off a corner, keeper stranded on line when a cross came in etc.)

If I need to do enormous amount of changes 3-0 up to avoid a 4-4 draw or a loss, that isnt a tactics problem, its poor coding from SI.

Teams do come back, high scoring games happen, but sometimes, you are down 3-0 or 4-0 you sort of resign to the fact you are going to lose. You don't go scoring 4 goals in 5 minutes because the opposition manager didnt put in an extra holding midfielder or took off an attacker.

Show me a list of REAL life occurrances where managers have lost 3 to 5 goal leads because they didnt play short passing or "try to close off the game."[/Quote]There are a number of high profile comebacks that can be used as examples. As for why they happened, that is the beauty of football.

try to but marking is one area needs tweaking but yes i will sometimes try to sacrifice certain players in terms of there creativity to try and stop there main players i use the start game oi then depended on what i see happning i then make ajustments accordingl

When i see what i call the comeback on i always keep 2 pacey wingers on the bench and try and sign two who can tackle and can run like grease lighting i drop there attacking mentality a little and more pressing it works a treat as i have found this game more than ever takes into account conditioning of the player

STAY ON YOUR FEET AND PASS TO FEET something i tend not to do good shout

I play with a deep defensive line and I close down often.

I surely wouldnt play a high defensive line and also close down, why would I do that?

I am not suicidal.

Also you said you do not have to make formation changes "at all" - then why did members of SI say to make these changes to protect leads.

Also the tactics guide cleary states to change formations to oppposing teams tactics.

Seems to me a lot of people think they know a lot about football, but know next to nothing - except how their code works and how to beat a "match engine."

Sad state of the game sadly. There is no more realism, just human trying to outsmart a perfect match engine that rarely makes mistakes.

Maybe you havent noticed I did not have this problem with other teams.

In Italy, counter attack means to absorb pressure, then hit on the break.

My midfield and attack have a lot of pace and are creative.

I put on a speedy striker, played pace into space. I also played counter attack style, but was also switching between defensive. Usually I try to suss it out. I conceded 3 goals in 5 minutes on counter, 2 goals I believe before I even had a chance to change my tactic.

My play was still fantastic, but every time the other team surged forward, it was cause of some stupid pass back (no I didnt conceed goals off set pieces). The ball was cleared, they cross into box, defender just stands there as ball hits him, bounces off and is tapped in. Same goal 3 times in a row.

I only get this problem with Marseille not with Napoli or Newcastle.

Can you explain this for me?

I know I am extreemly annoyed/upset with what happened, but It is not I am a total n00b at the game, I have been a tester for SI in the past, I have even helped Paul C on the match engine a few years ago when testing.

I also read the tactics guide and play as I see appropriate.

What I think is wrong here is morale/complacency is an issue, I cant see past it. A simple team talk should not destroy a result, its absurd and unheard of.

There are a number of come backs that can be used as an example? Well then show me this proof. I get annoyed when people ask for more detail or proof yet do not show me any in return for their argument.

Have you managed teams in higher divisions? U said you manage lower league football. Since defenders in the game are generally poor and strikers generally over-rated, dont you see some what of a correlation between high level football and poor defending and lower level football and defending/attacking being on par.

Surely the game is not as real life and in the lower english leagues, strikers will have poor stats, leading to less goals as basically they just do not have the skill to score wonder goals.

One thing I can comment on is that my players did have low match fitness around the 80-82% mark at half time, which was 3-4% lower than my opposition. However that still does not explain much, my team were still playing brilliantly - I even hit the bar on 6 occasions in the second half - guess it was just one of those games? :s

So a bad team talk and you lose a 3-0 lead.

Idiotic programming.

You contradict yourself mate.

You said prior that saying a "Team talk" "motivation" thing isnt helping, then you come back and say thats probably the cause of a come back.

Come on mate.

Things are far more complex for than you are allowing. Horrible team talks can lose you matches, as can horrible tactical decisions. It's not all black and white. Your job as a virtual manager is to minimise the chances of things going wrong and maximise the chances of things going right, on and off the pitch.

I don't mind the fact that teams come back into the game, I like it.

As i have said before teams do this in real life alot.

The loosing team manager gets stuck into their players at half time, The team in the lead takes their foot of the gas and before you know it they are back in the game. (Westham 2-2 Arsenal, Man City 3-3 Burnley, Man Utd 4-3 Man City, Sheff Utd 3-3 Ipswich,Man City 2-2 Fulham ...etc)

The only thing i am saying is that, I have notice that just going for it works well on this FM. I won League 2 with Grimsby as run away leaders with 112 points & i was in the top half of League 1 holding my own despite predicted 24th.

My first season as Grimsby i just avoided relegation after playing on the counter and going defensive when i was leading for most of that season.

Im not saying the game is flawed, Because i have not tried to go defensive and tweak tactics enough to say that it is, Im not critising the game at all,

Im just saying that all out attack works well on FM10, Well so far for me it as worked well.

Also when i took over Swansea they were rock bottom of the Championship and now im up to 17th and level on points with Middlesbrough

With all out attack yeah the odd game in a while i get thrased and teams do come back from 3-0 down now and again. But when they do come back into the game, I never change from overload the entire game & more times than not we still score another winning goal late on.

that is the thing i have never done i tend not to drop deep but then agin iam the manager who likes to sign defenders with at least 15-16 pace but if i didnt i would. I have worked out where on what i call the comeback the opp is most potent it the little pocket to the left and right of where your dmc will be

Richard, just so you know; I'm actually enjoying this version of FM [FAR] more than any other and my current Liverpool save is my best yet. I thank God for the new tactics system - I understand FM10 so much more nowadays and (finally!) feel as though I know what I'm doing. All I'm doing in threads like this is trying to see things from other people's point of view. I don't need help myself [far from it in fact], but I want to keep threads such as this going so others may get the help they need

The Drop Deep/Hassle/Get Stuck In thing was just an example. There are many other possible reasons for poor defending.

However, it's a nightmare to sift through all the ranting and opinionated statements in order to provide some constructive help. If people calmed down slightly rather than tried to score points against me or SI, we'd get a lot further a lot more quickly.

baker my old claret

Things are far more complex for than you are allowing. Horrible team talks can lose you matches, as can horrible tactical decisions. It's not all black and white. Your job as a virtual manager is to minimise the chances of things going wrong and maximise the chances of things going right, on and off the pitch.

I do agree with this point - this is what you are supposed to do within the complexities of the game. At times it may be unrealistic, but no more unrealistic as an unknown manager taking over Manchester United, or watching little dots moving around a green rectangle

Personally, I find it hard to know what teamtalk to give because I'm not 100% clear on their meanings. If I'm team has given a really strong first half performance, for example, it feels like the most natural thing in the world to tell the boys that it's important not to let their performance drop. On paper, it would a) tell the players they're giving a good level of performance and b) keep them from getting complacent. But I can see the logic of, from a player's point of view, it seeming like you don't trust them to go out there and keep performing. So it's a minefield. There's an option to tell the players you're delighted, but at half time it just feels like you're practically telling your players their job is done. So why is it there when it feels as if it's an automatic 4-3 defeat waiting to happen?

It's the meanings behind the words that are hard to decipher. All that said, I don't feel that I get my teamtalks wrong too often.

Rich iam not ranting sorry if it seem that way iam just putting a point across and i to aint struggling put i feel like i have to play the game in a way i dont want to

I play with a deep defensive line and I close down often.

I am not suicidal.

But that's an extremely dangerous strategy. The 'ultimate' Hassle tactic was Sacchi's Milan, who played so high that the defenders could pin tails on the their own attacker's shorts. If you want to close down aggressively, you need to reduce the space the players need to travel. High line, narrower, perhaps even a faster passing game.