SI Make Difficulty Levels to Stop the Whining

People are always posting that the on/off the pitch AI is too easy or too hard. My solution is for SI to make five levels of difficulty for both on and off the pitch aspects of the game.

Genius

Hard

Normal

Amateur

Easy

or, because this is a footie game:

Capello Level

Wenger Level

Benitez Level

McClaren Level

John Barnes Level

Any thoughts?

John barnes is very easy lol.

on topic I would not like it

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I would hate that..

If its to hard you just aren't a good manager like John Barnes and if its easy then you are like Sir Alex Ferguson, If you are a up and coming manager and you get a few promotions back to back then your like Darren Ferguson!

there already is difficulty levels....

manure et al = easy

alfreton town = hard

TBF being John Barnes would be hard, you would have to deal with bankruptcy and general rubbishness

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Just thinking about how much play testing and balancing it would take to get all those difficulty levels is giving me a head ache.

Out of interest, how would you propose the difficulty levels actually work?

Whilst it's a fair point to make it's something you just can't put in a management simulation. There are no "difficulty" levels in real life management other than, as psychocandy said, managing at Man Utd is a damn bit easier than picking up the reigns and Eastleigh or some such.

As for the whining that you refer to it would be here if we had difficulty levels as I'm sure someone would post "I'm playing on easy but still get beat 4-0 by Norwich even though I'm Chelsea, not realistic!!" So tbh, no point and not realistic

The idea is a non-starter, far too complicated, far too many variables. It just wouldn't work, especially for the reason s33r gave there.

Also, if you were playing on easy you would have things like world-class strikers missing open nets on purpose so as not to beat the player (leading to cries of scripting/cheating AI). There's a myriad of potential problems with such a scheme and I don't think it'd even cross SI's minds to begin to consider difficulty levels.

Also, as psychocandy said; there already is difficulty levels, you choose how difficult the game is by which team you pick to manage, or what level you manage at.

It'd be incredibly hard to truly put in, what do you do - just dumb down AI managers or what? The players have to have their stats, and the more a team plays together the better it gels. But I can just imagine you get a few playing it on easy and then "How immense am I, I beat Man Utd 6-0 with a team in the 22nd tier of English football"

Just thinking about how much play testing and balancing it would take to get all those difficulty levels is giving me a head ache.

Out of interest, how would you propose the difficulty levels actually work?

Whilst it's a fair point to make it's something you just can't put in a management simulation. There are no "difficulty" levels in real life management other than, as psychocandy said, managing at Man Utd is a damn bit easier than picking up the reigns and Eastleigh or some such.

As for the whining that you refer to it would be here if we had difficulty levels as I'm sure someone would post "I'm playing on easy but still get beat 4-0 by Norwich even though I'm Chelsea, not realistic!!" So tbh, no point and not realistic

By difficulty levels, I mean how intelligent and aware is the AI. Lets face it. There is quite a range of IQ's in the general population. Making difficulty levels allows the user to match the game to his intelligence and/or experience. It would also enhance the long term playability of the game by ramping up the challenge as we become able to defeat the default AI.

By difficulty levels, I mean how intelligent and aware is the AI. Lets face it. There is quite a range of IQ's in the general population. Making difficulty levels allows the user to match the game to his intelligence and/or experience. It would also enhance the long term playability of the game by ramping up the challenge as we become able to defeat the default AI.

So your saying the game monitors how good you are and adjusts the competency of your opponent?

If I got better and my team got better due to experience and bringing new players in, I wouldn't expect a team to get an arbitrary boost in their ability just because they are playing me , and then ,presumably, that boost dissapears once they start playing other teams

The idea is a non-starter, far too complicated, far too many variables. It just wouldn't work, especially for the reason s33r gave there.

Also, if you were playing on easy you would have things like world-class strikers missing open nets on purpose so as not to beat the player (leading to cries of scripting/cheating AI). There's a myriad of potential problems with such a scheme and I don't think it'd even cross SI's minds to begin to consider difficulty levels.

Also, as psychocandy said; there already is difficulty levels, you choose how difficult the game is by which team you pick to manage, or what level you manage at.

PLayers on pitch abilities would not change. What would change is how fast/how often the AI handles tactics on the pitch and its effectiveness. On gthe easiest level, the AI would use one set of tactics for a half. On the hardest it would adapt tactics ont he fly and choose mostly very effective ones.

So your saying the game monitors how good you are and adjusts the competency of your opponent?

If I got better and my team got better due to experience and bringing new players in, I wouldn't expect a team to get an arbitrary boost in their ability just because they are playing me , and then ,presumably, that boost dissapears once they start playing other teams

The AI would be determined by the difficulty level chosen.

By difficulty levels, I mean how intelligent and aware is the AI. Lets face it. There is quite a range of IQ's in the general population. Making difficulty levels allows the user to match the game to his intelligence and/or experience. It would also enhance the long term playability of the game by ramping up the challenge as we become able to defeat the default AI.

I know a lot of intelligent people who are rubbish at the game, and likewise i know plenty of idiots how are better at it. Difficulty levels are not the way forward, for more than my stated reason. For a second reason, it would take a long time to design and implement such a system when so many factors are intertwined and depend on other factors.

The time spent developing this would be better spent elsewhere IMO. I don't necessarily disagree with difficulty levels, but the dev time and the fact that this is meant to be a simulation put me off having them in FM.

making the game less focussed on tactics and more focused on players would be good.

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I think difficulty levels should be in.

However, I do not think they should have any effect on the match engine at all - it would be hard to code, lead to bugs an plain wouldn't work. Howver, they could be in without changing any in game calculation - just get the game to hold users hands a bit more.

For example: You are in match and the assistent comes up with advice relating to us losing the ball too often due to poor short passing, and the user should play more direct.

Very easy - the message comes up as (say we are man utd vs chelsea): 'Our passsing has been poor today. In particular, we have misplaced far too many short passes, especially from our centre-backs. To solve this you should play a longer, more direct passing game, making sure our centre-backs are told to quickly clear the ball upfield.'

Easy: 'Our passsing has been poor today. In particular, we have misplaced far too many short passes. To solve this you should play a longer, more direct passing game'.

Normal: 'Our passsing has been poor today. In particular, we have misplaced far too many short passes.'

Hard 'Our passsing has been poor today.'

Very Hard: Assman advice disabled.

This could be implemented in many areas of the game, from choosing your club, to making your tactics, signing staff, picking your team, transfer negotiations, and many others. On very easy, you will be practiclly told what to do, good for those who know little about football and need lots of help at the start. On very hard, you will get no advice at all - it is all down to your judgement. One other key point - on the easier difficulties, the game should help you get a very good assman (maybe even a perfect one on v.easy) so that he won't give you nonsence advice, even if you are in the BSS/N.

Thoughts?

I was thinking something along the lines of what Yid Army mentionied.

Perhaps the Harder difficulties could require you to change your tactics to cope with the opposition, while the Easy settings could allow you to play one way for the entire career.

Harder settings could perhaps be the "LLM" way some people like to play the game...basically removing the player search feature from the game, requiring you to find players by yourself. While easier settings could tell you on player profiles whether they are "World Class" etc. like with coaches. You can also see full stats, and compare with a player of your own team in that position with ease.

Knowledge of players could be extremely limited outside of your league on the hardest difficulties, requiring you to go out and scout to gain knowledge of anything, while on Easy your knowledge could be extensive...

I'm with Yid, although I also feel it could be too difficult to implement, and should only be included if tested extensively, perhaps as a patch for Beta testing after the game is released, then as a full patch once problems have been ironed out.

I think difficulty levels should be in.

However, I do not think they should have any effect on the match engine at all - it would be hard to code, lead to bugs an plain wouldn't work. Howver, they could be in without changing any in game calculation - just get the game to hold users hands a bit more.

For example: You are in match and the assistent comes up with advice relating to us losing the ball too often due to poor short passing, and the user should play more direct.

Very easy - the message comes up as (say we are man utd vs chelsea): 'Our passsing has been poor today. In particular, we have misplaced far too many short passes, especially from our centre-backs. To solve this you should play a longer, more direct passing game, making sure our centre-backs are told to quickly clear the ball upfield.'

Easy: 'Our passsing has been poor today. In particular, we have misplaced far too many short passes. To solve this you should play a longer, more direct passing game'.

Normal: 'Our passsing has been poor today. In particular, we have misplaced far too many short passes.'

Hard 'Our passsing has been poor today.'

Very Hard: Assman advice disabled.

This could be implemented in many areas of the game, from choosing your club, to making your tactics, signing staff, picking your team, transfer negotiations, and many others. On very easy, you will be practiclly told what to do, good for those who know little about football and need lots of help at the start. On very hard, you will get no advice at all - it is all down to your judgement. One other key point - on the easier difficulties, the game should help you get a very good assman (maybe even a perfect one on v.easy) so that he won't give you nonsence advice, even if you are in the BSS/N.

Thoughts?

I like this idea but I would like it be married to options for more intelligent/aware AI.

No i don't think this is the answer i for one would probably stop buying the game all together if they put this in. And it's bad enough that i'm already contemplating not buying next years due to how poor this one seems to be, never had any problems with the previous versions all the way back to the very first game, just this one!

I would instantly stop playing when again when I would had to play at easy to prevent loosing with Roma against the 20th team in the league.

Personally I like the idea of having options that allow the difficulty level to be adjusted (it doesn't need to be difficulty levels as such). I disagree with arguments about picking a certain team to manage as a way of adjusting the difficulty; I find this short-sighted as many players may only be interested in managing their favourite team. From what I've read though it seems unlikely to be included due to development, testing and balancing related arguments.

not difficulty levels, good players should always score easy chances etc.

just an "opponent ai" slider in the preferences. at the low end opponent managers make less tactical switches and don't use as many shouts etc. this would cater for people that want to watch the game on key highlights and take a more casual approach. even at lowest level opponent managers should switch to 424 etc.

No thanks. Wouldn't work, too complicated, no point, would have people saying 'look at me I beat Chelsea 4-0 and I'm only in the BSS' on easy. There are difficulty levels as others have mentioned. It's called the choice of club. It shouldn't be any easier or any harder just because you think it's too hard or there's a problem with a game, when chances are it'd be your own fault anyway. There's no sensible, realistic, or sane way of making it work. None at all. Usually those who want difficulty levels are those who struggle with the game and blame it on the game being too hard or the game having numerous problems, rather than looking at their own failings.

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Expect a majority of 'no thanks' posts. Like this one.

And this one

And indeed this one.

And this one

im joining the bandwaggon

... and this one

And this one i'm afraid.

I love starting trends

I think SI have officially commented on this subject before and said they wouldn't do it. I could be mistaken but I'm almost certain I remember reading something to that effect.

Difficult levels would basically be new versions of the game. If you think FM is bugged now, wait until there is an easy version, medium version and hard version, or even more than that. The bugs will multiply.

Usually those who want difficulty levels are those who struggle with the game and blame it on the game being too hard or the game having numerous problems, rather than looking at their own failings.

And for those who find the game too easy?

Also, the problem with using team selection as a default difficulty setting is that fans of big clubs want to manage their own teams. FM is far to easy when managing a big club.

And indeed this one.

And this one

im joining the bandwaggon

... and this one

And this one i'm afraid.

Add me to the list.

Awful idea.

I think difficulty levels should be in.

However, I do not think they should have any effect on the match engine at all - it would be hard to code, lead to bugs an plain wouldn't work. Howver, they could be in without changing any in game calculation - just get the game to hold users hands a bit more.

For example: You are in match and the assistent comes up with advice relating to us losing the ball too often due to poor short passing, and the user should play more direct.

Very easy - the message comes up as (say we are man utd vs chelsea): 'Our passsing has been poor today. In particular, we have misplaced far too many short passes, especially from our centre-backs. To solve this you should play a longer, more direct passing game, making sure our centre-backs are told to quickly clear the ball upfield.'

Easy: 'Our passsing has been poor today. In particular, we have misplaced far too many short passes. To solve this you should play a longer, more direct passing game'.

Normal: 'Our passsing has been poor today. In particular, we have misplaced far too many short passes.'

Hard 'Our passsing has been poor today.'

Very Hard: Assman advice disabled.

This could be implemented in many areas of the game, from choosing your club, to making your tactics, signing staff, picking your team, transfer negotiations, and many others. On very easy, you will be practiclly told what to do, good for those who know little about football and need lots of help at the start. On very hard, you will get no advice at all - it is all down to your judgement. One other key point - on the easier difficulties, the game should help you get a very good assman (maybe even a perfect one on v.easy) so that he won't give you nonsence advice, even if you are in the BSS/N.

Thoughts?

Still unworkable as what you're saying is on v.hard your ass man wouldn't tell you a thing which again is unrealistic. Football Manager is a simulation, it simulates the beautiful game and the management side of the game as closely as possible, it's for those two reasons difficulty levels are unworkable and unwarranted. With the additions of back-room meetings and more feedback from your ass-man if you can't spot what's going wrong they're there to help. Okay they're still not perfect but they're a lot more helpful than they used to be.

Add me to the list.

Awful idea.

and me

If you are finding it too easy, start as unemployed, with a 'sunday league' reputation and with attribute masking on, and without ever going on holiday, wait for a job as manager of an English Conference North/South club. Then when you've won every major trophy in England, Europe, and Internationally, within 15 years, upload your save game to our FTP server for me to check. You'll either be a genius, a liar, or the game is too easy

If you are finding it too easy, start as unemployed, with a 'sunday league' reputation and with attribute masking on, and without ever going on holiday, wait for a job as manager of an English Conference North/South club. Then when you've won every major trophy in England, Europe, and Internationally, within 15 years, upload your save game to our FTP server for me to check. You'll either be a genius, a liar, or the game is too easy

As others have pointed out this game has difficuly levels - you can go a big rich club or you can a penniless lower division side.

I'm also of the opinion that it would be a pretty naff idea but tbh, if you're not enjoying the game because you're finding it too hard then it might be an idea for SI to look into otherwise they could lose some loyal fans who do find it too hard.

Perhaps dumb down the tactics a little (I mean no disrespect by that, I'm no way near good at the tactics) but it might make things a little simpler for people to grasp. Obviously keep the current, deeper tactics for those who like to spend hours tweaking away.

Just my thoughts on it.

and me

count me in aswell, pointless post! if u want difficulty levels play fifa or pes!!!

If you are finding it too easy, start as unemployed, with a 'sunday league' reputation and with attribute masking on, and without ever going on holiday, wait for a job as manager of an English Conference North/South club. Then when you've won every major trophy in England, Europe, and Internationally, within 15 years, upload your save game to our FTP server for me to check. You'll either be a genius, a liar, or the game is too easy

That's not more difficult than managing a top side, only much more time consuming.

I have suggested this before but the way to introduce difficulty settings, which I believe should be introduced, is to set different levels of activity or degree to which tactics are tweaked by the opposition manager.

e.g. on the easiest level the ai hardly changes their tactics throughout a match, and maybe only has 1 or 2 different settings against different teams.

on hardest the ai 'tweaks' their tactic often both against different teams and throughout each match, adjusting quickly to how you play - i.e. they're more likely to 'crack' your tactic.

this would suit the needs of both 'plug and play' gamers and hardcore gamers that watch all their matches on full match and tweak throughout their matches.

As previously said, implementing difficulty levels would just lead to even more bugs, and even more whining.

Oh, and this is another 'no thanks' post.

Awful idea.

If you are finding it too easy, start as unemployed, with a 'sunday league' reputation and with attribute masking on, and without ever going on holiday, wait for a job as manager of an English Conference North/South club. Then when you've won every major trophy in England, Europe, and Internationally, within 15 years, upload your save game to our FTP server for me to check. You'll either be a genius, a liar, or the game is too easy

Been there, done that. Made up the t-shirt.

If you want a tough game go East Stirlingshire and win The SPL and Champs lge within 5 years.

I wish it was like CM03/04 good teams would beat little teams althou there was the occasionaly shock

Game was based on what players you had not so much on perfecting tactics!!..

Its ment to be a game games are ment to fun am i right? Not making them so hard were people get fed up and give up on the game.

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And indeed this one.

And this one

im joining the bandwaggon

... and this one

And this one i'm afraid.

And this one.

I love starting trends

Another one in the chain

and me

count me in aswell, pointless post! if u want difficulty levels play fifa or pes!!!

Difficulty levels are for arcade games! Not for me, no, no and thrice no!

didn't read other posts but here goes:

yes it would be cool but you won't see it happen because that's like making 1 match engine for each dificulty and SI can't even balance the current match engine (defenders stupidity in fm2010 for example) and not to mention bugs...

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No thanks.