SI, Please Stop This Stupidity

Players have absolutely no tolerance for discipline in the game, and this has been the case for several versions.

I'm sorry, but in the real football world, poor performances in matches where you are favored are NOT acceptable. No real life manager is going sit idly and accept players performing that poorly when the club was a clear favorite. However, in FM players will almost always protest and complain of being treated unfairly if the manager issues a warning to let them know that they have to do better than 5.1 or 5.2 when the club was favored but instead got run off the pitch by a score of 3-0. Rarely do I see players accept such a warning unless they have had a truly catastrophic performance with a rating below 5.0.

But I can guarantee you that managers like Alex Ferguson have ZERO tolerance for performances of the 5.1 or 5.4 variety in real life, particularly if a club like Manchester United is clearly the superior side and should handle itself professionally. There is a long list of high profile players who've been shown the door at Old Trafford because they could not handle Ferguson's disciplinary tactics and his extremely tough expectations.

However, if Alex Ferguson actually managed in an FM world, he would cause an absolute mutiny among the players and would be sacked by the board for his handling of them.

Personally, I try to be very reasonable in FM and don't use discipline that often unless it's clear that players were absolutely terrible. But then there will be a clearly legitimately case of a few players being an embarrassment, and yet the very first attempt to discipline them causes a riot. Absolutely and utterly stupid, and this is an area of the game that needs improvement.

If the disciplinary options are intended only for extreme situations, then give us the tools to manage players in less extreme circumstances. Give us a legitimate way to tell the players that there is a minimally acceptable level of play and they have just fallen below that. And if they keep it up, they'll be dropped.

cant you say that your are disappointed in the players performance, and also in the team talk tell the myou expect a performance etc

double post edit.

I think what the OP is getting at is that even after doing all the things like telling him he was dissapointed with him at half time,ect, ect he still has a 5.1-5.4 rating at full time. Then when he warns him for poor performance the player becomes unhappy and dislikes you casuing dressing room unrest.

Personally i haven't seen this so far but i can't remember if i have actually warned any players for poor performance or not. Usually though i only do that if i am really angry or if they are consistently poor.

Instead of issuing them with a warning maybe go to the player interaction option and criticize their form?

Ya, I stopped giving warnings for anything other sub 5.0 performances, and double yellows.

Agree with OP- players sulk and whine to ridiculous levels.

Once again SI fail to introduce any degree of subtlety into the game.

Deja vu or what?

They respond the same way to criticising their form unless they have had a run of poor form. I've always understood the media interaction to be about long-term performance and not a single game. The internal warnings and fines are intended to be for a single game's poor performance, although I suppose they could be used for long-term problems too. But I don't even bother with fines, because most players can't even accept a warning.

fining a player for poor form is rediculous though. I garuntee you that no player in the world that is playing poorly will be fined for it, let alone be happy about it!

fining a player for poor form is rediculous though. I garuntee you that no player in the world that is playing poorly will be fined for it, let alone be happy about it!

Why is the option to fine players for poor performance there then? SI surely got it from somewhere that reflects real life.

fining a player for poor form is rediculous though. I garuntee you that no player in the world that is playing poorly will be fined for it, let alone be happy about it!

They sulk if you criticise too- the way SI have implemented morale and form is terrible.

And dont get me started on why a player who has had a good run of form will suddenly have the dreaded "playing nervously" appear- only option being sub them regardless or they will ruin the match.

What an utter joke this game is- the demo showed promise, and I love the tactics wizard but once again its one step forward and several back.

So for the 3rd year running we have to wait till the new year for what we hope is a decent game.

if a player every single week is giving the performance than yes, but this is a bad performance in 1 game then losing a weeks wages for it. Should have elaborated in my post

I'm also getting "worried by a lack of managerial discipline" when I issue warnings for double-yellow red cards and fine a weeks wages for a straight red.

I tell players im disappointed or even angry in team talks but rarely warn them officially for poor performance.

It is hard to balance or understand.

I'm also getting "worried by a lack of managerial discipline" when I issue warnings for double-yellow red cards and fine a weeks wages for a straight red.

I tell players im disappointed or even angry in team talks but rarely warn them officially for poor performance.

It is hard to balance or understand.

Agree- Ive suggested many times in the past that SI should implement the real life way clubs deal with it. Most have set rules- so we should be able to define each season the punishments for particular crimes, players then know where they stand.

Still realism in FM? Im being silly arent I...

yer there is no realism in FM cause the feature you want isnt in there......

I agree it should be looked at but to be whinging as much as you are slating the entire game is rubbish

I don't think it's necessary to warn players for a 5.1 or 5.4. A rollicking in the team talk should be enough, then the next match tell them you "expect better".

But remember this is a computer game, so it's based on numbers and logic, so there has to be a cut-off somewhere. Looks like it's 4.9 and below in this case.

Aussieant32, you didn't pay attention to my original post. It had nothing to do with fining players. It had to do with warning players about poor performance.

I have seen this work in the game and players have admitted poor form, apologized, and tried to do better next time. But most of the time players feel they have been treated unfairly, even when they have had a poor performance in a hugely important match in which their club is the clear favorite.

That's utterly stupid and in no way consistent with the real life footballing world. If players reacted this way in real life, then nearly every club in the world would be littered with players that have low morale and are looking to leave.

Regular warnings, instructions, and occasional hair dryer treatments are part of football. As I stated above, no manager is more abusive and aggressive in handling his players than Alex Ferguson. Yet look at this results and his level of success. In FM this would be impossible, because he would always destroy the entire team's morale and do nothing but lose matches as a result.

Agree with OP- players sulk and whine to ridiculous levels.

I like a nice glass of whine.

i rarely get players, upset with me over warnings/fines. i do it whenver it is needed and ive only ever had 1 player get in a strop but he soon came out of it.

Dont forget, player reactions are also linked to your reputation in relation to the club you are at. If you have a low reputation and put yourself in charge of a big club, players couldn't care less what you have to say as they don't think you're good enough anyway. If you criticise them they assume you're wrong and kick off.

Odd? I've dished out warnings for anything sub 6.4 and not had issues.

Aurelio, Skrtel, & Kuyt have all accepted and promised to improve. Even Johnson took his one week fine for a vicious foul and subsequent red card in good humour.

Clearly not as cut and dried as some would have it seem.

I agree, this is a problem. I was playing as Sheffield FC in a very low league, we went in to a Cup game which could have made us about £16,000 had we won it (club turnover is only about £130,000), we were on a great winning streak and also unbeaten in 9. Before that the form had been patchy though and I had warned a certain central defender to get his act together. He wasn't playing great after I warned him, he just picked up 6.5's etc but the team was winning.

Anyway I went in to this important game and we were clear favourites, needless to say I lost 3-1 with that clown of a defender putting in a terrific 4.7 performance. He gave away two penalties and I subbed him on the second which he gave away on 67 minutes. I gave him a further warning about his performance and he sulked with me saying it was unacceptable. Obviously I AM THE BOSS! He isn't going to get away with playing s**t and then saying a warning is harsh so I fined him. The whole team turned in to the crew from the bounty and I had mutiny before I knew it.

Basically I can't tell a player he is crap even though he was cos he says that is unfair even though I have warned him in the past. SO when I put my foot down and tell him basically it wasn't unfair stop moaning I am the boss, in the only way the game lets me, I have a revolt!

Ridiculous.

Also the whole morale thing for me is totally screwed up. It is like a rollercoaster, never consistent at all. A striker can be on superb morale after scoring a hat trick and then because he doesn't do so well the next game he is back to normal, then the next game if we lose and he doesnt score it is down to poor or very poor. This is totally unrealistic especially as morale plays a massive part in your teams performance, more so than tactics I would say.

I hope it can be sorted.

Dont forget, player reactions are also linked to your reputation in relation to the club you are at. If you have a low reputation and put yourself in charge of a big club, players couldn't care less what you have to say as they don't think you're good enough anyway. If you criticise them they assume you're wrong and kick off.

I'm managing at a level 8 club in England using an XML file to unlock lower levels. My reputation was set to Sunday league footballer, and so it is in line with the level of the club. There have been no indications that my reputation is hurting me like players saying they're having a hard time motivating themselves for me.

Okay, I have to give SI credit for something here. After benching one of the players who felt he was treated unfairly and then sending him to play in a reserve match, he suddenly spoke up in the media a couple of weeks later and "publicly admitted that he was wrong to consider himself unfairly treated." He said he decided to apologize "once he realized his behavior would not get him anywhere near the first team."

Now that's what I call sensibility. At least one of these dullards has managed to come to grips with reality and admit that he was **** poor. This is a nice addition from SI, although maybe it was in FM09 too.

Ive suggested many times in the past that SI should implement the real life way clubs deal with it. Most have set rules- so we should be able to define each season the punishments for particular crimes, players then know where they stand.

Still realism in FM? Im being silly arent I...

While some people are going a little OTT in my opinion by suggesting the discipline issue is ruining the game I really like this idea for a set structure. You could also expand it allow you to ask the players to suggest a system - apparently Ian Holloway recently had to manage a Blackpool game in a suit from a charity shop because he'd broken the rules on punctuality agreed by the squad.

I agree, this is a problem. I was playing as Sheffield FC in a very low league, we went in to a Cup game which could have made us about £16,000 had we won it (club turnover is only about £130,000), we were on a great winning streak and also unbeaten in 9. Before that the form had been patchy though and I had warned a certain central defender to get his act together. He wasn't playing great after I warned him, he just picked up 6.5's etc but the team was winning.

Anyway I went in to this important game and we were clear favourites, needless to say I lost 3-1 with that clown of a defender putting in a terrific 4.7 performance. He gave away two penalties and I subbed him on the second which he gave away on 67 minutes. I gave him a further warning about his performance and he sulked with me saying it was unacceptable. Obviously I AM THE BOSS! He isn't going to get away with playing s**t and then saying a warning is harsh so I fined him. The whole team turned in to the crew from the bounty and I had mutiny before I knew it.

Basically I can't tell a player he is crap even though he was cos he says that is unfair even though I have warned him in the past. SO when I put my foot down and tell him basically it wasn't unfair stop moaning I am the boss, in the only way the game lets me, I have a revolt!

Ridiculous.

Also the whole morale thing for me is totally screwed up. It is like a rollercoaster, never consistent at all. A striker can be on superb morale after scoring a hat trick and then because he doesn't do so well the next game he is back to normal, then the next game if we lose and he doesnt score it is down to poor or very poor. This is totally unrealistic especially as morale plays a massive part in your teams performance, more so than tactics I would say.

I hope it can be sorted.

To be honest I think it's realistic for the team to revolt if you've fined a player simply for him saying he feels a warning was unfair.

Think of it as a work situation, if I recieved a warning from my boss I have a right to think it's unfair. It doesn't stop me recieving the warning though, and it would be left at that.

However, If I got fined for saying I thought the fine was unfair, then it would cause mass unrest in my office and I'd be straight onto HR because the fine was for me expressing a view rather than my performance.

To be honest I think it's realistic for the team to revolt if you've fined a player simply for him saying he feels a warning was unfair.

Think of it as a work situation, if I recieved a warning from my boss I have a right to think it's unfair. It doesn't stop me recieving the warning though, and it would be left at that.

However, If I got fined for saying I thought the fine was unfair, then it would cause mass unrest in my office and I'd be straight onto HR because the fine was for me expressing a view rather than my performance.

Yes but as I said, this is the only way the game allows me to say to him, accept my warning or else. The guy had already had warnings about poor performance and should have known that if he put in another absolute shocker as he did, then he would be punished.

After being punished he certainly shouldn't have gone and sulked about it, very unprofessional. Even though his personality is model professional :confused:

If he sulks after being punished for something he has already been told not to do several times then yes, he deserves to be slapped or spoken to. Can I do that? No. So I fined him, the only thing the game lets me do.

I am enjoying the game despite the several little niggles there are. I didn't play FM08 or 09 because they were terrible and this is an improvement but I still feel the game is too rigid in many areas. Player, Media and supporter interaction is still way below what it should be. For example if a press guy asks me a question which is totally irrelevant in my opinion or is just plain daft do I have the option to say to him, that question is stupid? No again. I have the same set of answers time after time which make me have to answer whatever question he puts to me or simply say no comment. I'd love to be able to say to him at times how much of a knob he is being for asking that, as happens in real life....

What we need is a way to criticise the players directly and not through the media.