The Dynamic League Reputation Discussion (with poll)

First off, this has been on my list of FM wishes for a lon long time now, and i know other users such as Amaroq are also in favour of this idea. But i want a braoder view, a bigger demographic of this idea.

Let me first say how it is currently. All leagues within the game have a certain reputation (much the same as real life) which is a number up to 20 that can be found through the editor. I believe the English premier is league is 18 which is one of the highest in the game. These are currently set and cannot change throughout the course of the game no matter how long or where you decide to manage.

Now, my idea would mainly be beneficial for those who manage in so called lesser leagues or obscure countries, or for those do a "journeyman" save and also for people who do "long term" or "holiday saves".

I'll use Ukraine or maybe even Russia as an example. Quite often recently, teams from these countries have been serious competition in europe, Shakhtar, CSKA Moscow, Zenit St Petersburg and the UEFA cup for example. Teams in the Champions League doing well this season like Rubin Kazan aswell. In turn this has generated more of an awareness from people about these leagues as people are now taking notice of them and regarding them as serious competition. As a result of this (and some money), the standard of players is starting to improve. They are attracting better foreign players for a start. Their reputation if you like, is increasing. Its happened before aswell. Not so long ago, Seria A was regarded the best league in europe. Then Spain had a run of it, and now its Engalnds turn.

Now imagine in game, that you could build upon this success and sustain it. The more succesful the team your managing becomes, the more aware people become of where your from hence your reputation (slowly) starts to increase. Sustain it and your league reputation will increase as money slowly trickles down making the rest of the league more competitive. This reputation increase obviously means you'll have access to better players, and the increase in money means you'll be able to "look after things at home" such as maybe your stadium, your youth setup or snatching up the best domestic young players!

If you take a look at the bigger picture. Whilst your doing this for your league, its obviously going to be at a price to somewhere else. Places in the knockout stages in europe are only limited, and if your filling them up then it will be at the expense of a team, maybe from a more "established" league. Long strory short, if this continues the obviously (again slowly) the leagues these teams are from will suffer a drop in reputation.

In summary, i'd love to be able to not only build up a team from an obscure nation, but also be able to build their league up to maybe be one of the best in Europe. I know its unrealistic to have the Maltese league as the top european league , so what i would suggest overall is a cap on how much reputation can move. Again using the Premier League, reputation 18 but it could have variable element to it. So it could be at 18 max 14 minimum, the swing could be greater but ive just used that as an example. This makes it more important t be able to build sustainable success for the long term.

What do you guys think? Im looking for a discussion, if you agree or can add anymore ideas then please do. If you disagree, then say why

I think that's a marvelous idea simon

I suspect it would only really work for the top tier of a certain country. For example, if you're managing in the Blue Square South or below, if my team is the best in the league and is enjoying a good season, then I'm going to get promoted to another league thus any positive effect in terms of rep on my team competing in that league will disappear.

You've made some great points and given some real world examples that rep can increase so I think for top tier leagues in more obscure nations would benefit immensely from this.

i

I'm the one poster who voted no - I think it's a good idea but would be hard to implement + it doesn't really mirror rl as it is at the momment.

My point is this, yes it would improve the prospects of other clubs getting to later stages of certain competitions but i see this happening in FM all the time (Just had Hondures make it to the QF of World Cup in my game). This is why the champions league was changed to help the prospects of other clubs.

Even in the likes of FM 08 I wouls sometimes see bohemians make it to the group stages so what your suggesting be it a good idea on face value, could potentially upset the balance on how the game mirrors real life.

but then it's just my opinion and i''m sure other ppl won't agree but hey i'm up for topical discussion:D

I voted yes because I do want dynamic lg rep but I don't like the cap idea. In a long game with smaller clubs if you have succes the rep should rise. If you cap a nation with less the ten it will not get any money or attract any players.

Also it isn't just growing teams competing internationally that could have an effect on a league's reputation. It's players as well.

Think of Beckham when he moved to LA Galaxy. There are obviously tons of existing die hard MLS fans, but the impact he had on the MLS and soccer in general in the States was immense. I think having him alone move to the MLS would have increased it's league reputation by a point or two.

I think it's a great idea and that it should be totally uncapped. Yes, it may not be very likely that Malta becomes the top league in Europe, and it should be VERY hard for it to become that in the game - but not impossible. If you win the Champions Leauge with Valetta several years in a row, and Malta get more European spots as a result, and the other Maltese teams, who get to play in Europe, are succesful as well, then of course Malta as a whole should get a better reputation as a league. This could be based on the European co-efficients and world rankings to some degree - and I'm surprised, that it's not already like that?

FM is a simulation, and simulations need to be able to evolve in different and sometimes unpredictable directions. Realism is not equal predictability.

Sadly, FIFA Manager (used to) have some crude version of this. I haven't played that one in a couple of years, so I don't know about now. Anyway, there is no way EA should be outproducing SI in something like that.

I've been in support of this feature to be included in the series for a couple of years now and would like to see it included in the next release, if it would be possible.

It would make the in-game world a completely dynamic environment, and it would add an immense amount of replay value for those of us that choose to manage in the more obscure leagues.

This goes well until, several seasons into the game, leagues like the EPL lose reputation and smaller league gain. Then it'll be "it's so unrealistic, sort it out SI!" all over the forums.

This goes well until, several seasons into the game, leagues like the EPL lose reputation and smaller league gain. Then it'll be "it's so unrealistic, sort it out SI!" all over the forums.

Just make it a box you tick at the start of the game? "Use dynamic league reputation".

Just make it a box you tick at the start of the game? "Use dynamic league reputation".

I'm all for options in FM, so I can't disagree with that suggestion. This idea just reeks of forum rage, if implemented, when things don't go according to a manager's notions about the football world.

A yes again from me, just as in previous years.

Also, what is it with everyone wanting to have tick boxes for EVERYTHING?

This goes well until, several seasons into the game, leagues like the EPL lose reputation and smaller league gain. Then it'll be "it's so unrealistic, sort it out SI!" all over the forums.

That was why i said maybe about a cap, so leagues can progress or fail but not too far. However, my ideal scenario is a completely dynamic league system. Realistically, these reputation changes should happen over a prolonged period very slowly so as to stop say the premier league going from being one of the best reps to one of the worst the next season.

As I think has come up nearly every time this gets suggested - The financial structure in the game is currently not in a place that could handle this kind of reputation changing. The idea itself is sound, and I'm sure SI would really like to implement this as soon as they feel they can fully make it work.

Maybe they could tie it to the UEFA coefficients and FIFA world rankings somehow.

Anyway, I'll leave it with you...

I'd like dynamic league reputations to be included in the game, but I do acknowledge it's a difficult thing to get right, as Biscotti stated by mentioning the financial structure. A dynamic reputation would inevitablly need dynamic TV money and dynamic ticket prices and more. This has to be absolutely right before SI include it in the game.

As for a cap, one possible way is to have an overall limit of what all top flight league reputations in the world could add up to. There would also be a minimum limit.

For example say there was only 3 countries in the world and they were England, Russia and Finland. Their reputations on FM2009 were (I think) 19, 14 and 10 respectively. That totals 43, so the overall total would always have to be between say 41 and 45. That allows a bit of freedom for change, whilst keeping the game world balanced.

That idea probably needs work, but the principle is good I feel.

I've also just remembed that altering reputations of lower divisions and cup competitions would also need to be taken into account and would need to change proportionately. That may be quite simple, or may be quite hard, I've not really thought about it.

great idea that we mention since years and years, but SI are using same game each year again, each time with some bling bling here and there, and each time they mess up the db more and more, I AM SURE THEY WILL NEVER TRY TO MAKE STH NEW

It's a good idea in principle, but I'd want it to be ied to sustained broad improvement, not just based on one side. You may build up a great side, but if the rest of the league stagnates and doesn't go with you, there should be very little change in league rep.

For some reason, I was under the impression that League Rep was dynamic in FM10. :confused:

If its not, I'll be very disappointed. In my FM08 save, I'm in 2051 in N. Ireland, and despite losing about 50 games over the last 30 seasons, (in all comps) - I still can't attract world class players.

Yes, it's a must, but accepting that a league's reputation can only change over years subject to it's teams performing well.

This is an absolute must for me as I generally manage in weaker leagues. I've got an 08 save up to 2035 in Iceland, and despite regularly reaching the CL knockout stages I'm always forced to sell my best players after a few seasons.

great idea that we mention since years and years, but SI are using same game each year again, each time with some bling bling here and there, and each time they mess up the db more and more, I AM SURE THEY WILL NEVER TRY TO MAKE STH NEW

It's nice to see well thought out responses are being put forward by everyone today </sarcasm>

I like the suggestion that there should be an overall total rep "window" as such to keep the overall gameworld from getting wildly unbalanced.

When SI get around to finding a way to put this into the game I think we should definitely be looking at decades of success, as opposed to just years, that changes a league's rep.

Actually, now that I think of it, it'd probably have to be on a curving scale - so that say getting a league rep from 3 to 4 might only take 5-10 years, but moving from 16 to 17 may take upwards of 30 years....

It's nice to see well thought out responses are being put forward by everyone today </sarcasm>

I like the suggestion that there should be an overall total rep "window" as such to keep the overall gameworld from getting wildly unbalanced.

When SI get around to finding a way to put this into the game I think we should definitely be looking at decades of success, as opposed to just years, that changes a league's rep.

Actually, now that I think of it, it'd probably have to be on a curving scale - so that say getting a league rep from 3 to 4 might only take 5-10 years, but moving from 16 to 17 may take upwards of 30 years....

But league reputation can changes in almost a moments notice. Imagine a sharp financial crisis where major media companies teeter on bankruptcy and can no longer pay millions in rights fees. England and Spain as a whole would suffer.

Not sure there is the will or ability to mirror economic circumstances in FM. But there should be very rare but sharp changes in league rep.

Does anyone have access to the figures for league rep for the various leagues over the years? It would be interesting to see how each league's league reputation has changed with each edition of the game, and possibly use that as a model for how league reputation might change over time.

Does anyone have access to the figures for league rep for the various leagues over the years? It would be interesting to see how each league's league reputation has changed with each edition of the game, and possibly use that as a model for how league reputation might change over time.

That is possibly the single best suggestion so far in this thread. I'd go try to find out, but I'm too busy playing FM10

Rep shouldn't be based purely on teams performing well either, but based upon money, nation info (rep, economic factor, nation development, game importance), and other factors. For example, a league in a country with an economic factor of one wouldn't ever be able to develop well because there is just no money in the country, where as a league in a country with an economic factor of 20 would be able to develop more because the money is there. Or a third world country will have issues with developing the rep its league because its not a good standard of living in that country and thus will be hard to get good footballers to come there. Likewise, a league like MLS has been in an upward crawl with regards to rep since its inception. It hasn't made huge gains, but overall the effect is extremely noticeable, despite recent poor performances in continental competition.

Long story short, there are TON of factors involving league rep, and to have the league rep change purely based on team performance would be a huge miscalculation in my opinion. There would have to be way more factors involved for it to be accurate. It would be a very awesome thing if it were pulled off correctly.

Yes.

I see no justification for any other choice.

i WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION LEAGUE REP does INCREASE BY ONE POINT AFTER WINNiNg THE cHAMPIONS lEAGUE......

aM i wrong in this?

(sorry sticky caps lock)

i WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION LEAGUE REP does INCREASE BY ONE POINT AFTER WINNiNg THE cHAMPIONS lEAGUE......

aM i wrong in this?

(sorry sticky caps lock)

lol, that sentence looks rather strange, sticky capslock or otherwise. To answer your question, however, leage rep is entirely static, so somewhere along the way you have been misled

Maybe they could tie it to the UEFA coefficients and FIFA world rankings somehow.

Anyway, I'll leave it with you...

I would have thought this has already been done.

I must be playing a entirly different game from what other people are playing cos from what i've seen in game rep should be by team and not by leauge and that is exactly what the game does.

Yes granted irl in the past leagues reputation has changed because of sponsership, money, suger daddies etc but this is something that doesn't happen often and in current climate will not happen again for a long time. People go on about how unrealistic the game is but i think it is fine just the way it is because in real life it is EXACTLY the way it is.

Just because 3 or 4 teams do well one season doesn't mean the league should be attracting loads a money because of it - as the saying goes, one swallow doesn't make a summer:D

Like I said in my ealier post UEFA have triedd to improve situations for clubs in Europe by changing the format of their compititions and the game has mirrored this to a tee so I completly fail to see where this "Dynamic" league thing has come about. Part of me thinks it's a good idea in principal but in grand old scheme of IRL - leave as is

For some reason, I was under the impression that League Rep was dynamic in FM10. :confused:

If its not, I'll be very disappointed. In my FM08 save, I'm in 2051 in N. Ireland, and despite losing about 50 games over the last 30 seasons, (in all comps) - I still can't attract world class players.

This is an absolute must for me as I generally manage in weaker leagues. I've got an 08 save up to 2035 in Iceland, and despite regularly reaching the CL knockout stages I'm always forced to sell my best players after a few seasons.

@ Tez01979

Those two post clearly emphasize why dynamic league reputation is needed for those really long term games.

@ Tez01979

Those two post clearly emphasize why dynamic league reputation is needed for those really long term games.

I see your point on that - perhaps it's just me then, but i tenf not to play games up to those periods as for one thing i don't have the time and it seems a bit silly (to me anyways) getting to those years and not knowing a thing about who's who (would like to do it at least once to see what it's like). I tend to play for 2 to 3 seasons then give up. So maybe I'm biased that way because of this.

One point i will make is this though. If your playing as an icelandic team after 30 seasons or so and you want to be ambitious (not knocking it just think it's crazy), here's a thought go to a bigger club - thats what a icelandic manager would do.

I see your point on that - perhaps it's just me then, but i tenf not to play games up to those periods as for one thing i don't have the time and it seems a bit silly (to me anyways) getting to those years and not knowing a thing about who's who (would like to do it at least once to see what it's like). I tend to play for 2 to 3 seasons then give up. So maybe I'm biased that way because of this.

One point i will make is this though. If your playing as an icelandic team after 30 seasons or so and you want to be ambitious (not knocking it just think it's crazy), here's a thought go to a bigger club - thats what a icelandic manager would do.

That's assuming you have other countries as manageable in your save.

But i tend not to play games up to those periods as for one thing i don't have the time and it seems d bit silly (to me anyways) getting to those years and not knowing a thing about who's who

Yes, of course those types of gamers should be heard. But I believe that a dynamic league reputation should be so slow in evolving and devolving that players who dont play past the ten year mark would even notice its there.

That's assuming you have other countries as manageable in your save.

Yeah true

Pretty easy assumption for me to make though cos i have all the major leagues playing at one time. Proberbly why i only last 2 to 3 seasons - long games but can be very interesting with some of the things you see with this type of game.

Can't play with one league, even though it is unlikly i would go to the MLS say, I like the option to be there in case i get the notion to do so. I suppose everyone just plays it differently and I like it the way I play it so don't see anyhing broken with the "dynamic" aspect

This idea is brilliant... and has my full support!

I see your point on that - perhaps it's just me then, but i tenf not to play games up to those periods as for one thing i don't have the time and it seems a bit silly (to me anyways) getting to those years and not knowing a thing about who's who (would like to do it at least once to see what it's like). I tend to play for 2 to 3 seasons then give up. So maybe I'm biased that way because of this.

One point i will make is this though. If your playing as an icelandic team after 30 seasons or so and you want to be ambitious (not knocking it just think it's crazy), here's a thought go to a bigger club - thats what a icelandic manager would do.

Initially, I started in N. Ireland as part of Gundo's Challenge in CSE. The aim, if you've never seen the challenge, is to take a previously unplayable team, from a small nation, to League and Champions League glory. For me, the domestic side was simple. I've won the title for 38 years in a row, and have won the domestic cups just as often. I've won the Champions League 3 times (2037, 2044, 2047) and the EURO Cup once (2042). Its so difficult for me to get to the latter stages here, because I can't attract the best players, which is crazy. When I do assemble a good squad (usually from buying young hopefuls that blossom, and me keeping them as much as possible on 5 year deals) - I end up getting far, if not winning the big competitions. Now, once I've won the Champs League (and, Super Cup and World Club Championship) - you would think that some decent players would want to come and play for me. Its guaranteed silverware, guaranteed Champions League football, and I can afford to pay big wages. (My highest earner currently earns £125,000 per week). I'm pretty sure my club rep would be very high, however, quite simply because the league rep is static, I'm never ever going to be able to attract good players. For a long time, I was such a dominant force. But now, there are 9 professional teams in the league (When I first started the game, there weren't any) - and Linfield are a strong, good team, who achieve the group stages of the Champions League more often than they don't. On top of that, Glentoran get to the group stages of the EURO Cup pretty much every season, and 4 or 5 other teams have ventured into the group stages of the Euro Cup over the years. Now, I'm not expecting miracles, but after 43 seasons, 4 European titles, guaranteed Champions League football, and high wages, I would have expected the league rep to have risen a bit. I would also expect it to take this long for it to happen, but to simply discard the option, its crazy. For those that like long term games (and believe me, there are a lot of us) - it feels like a kick in the nuts, that SI can overlook something like this, despite there being so much outcry for it since I can remember. On top of everything, I have international class players, but they NEVER EVER win the World Player, World / European Striker / Mid / Defender of the year awards. I have 1 player who is 12 goals away from 3,000 career goals. Thats right, its not a misprint. 3,000 career goals. And despite the fact he has won Champions League best player, Top scorer, COUNTLESS deomestic accolades, 118 caps and is N. Irelands all time top scorer with 64, he has never once been thought of as the best player in the world. Its crazy. What disappoints me here also, is the fact that my highest valued player right now, is at £200,000. I can't really sell players for more than £3-£4 million, because of the league rep. Yet, I've sold players for so little, and within 6 months at a new club, they're worth £20,000,000 - and one even sold for £35,000,000 3 years after I was forced to sell him for £500,000 because he wouldn't sign a new contract, as he wanted to move to a bigger club. This was the season I won the Champs League. I'm sorry, but what bigger club, at that moment in time, was there? He was at the best, with the best. Every single year, I'm forced to sell my best players, because they won't sign new deals. This makes the game extra hard, because I need to keep scouting the world for those young gems, EVERY year. If league reputation was dynamic, even minimally, my game would be a different entity all together. But because its not, I'm restricted within my nations boundaries, because of League Reputation. And just to add, I struggle to make money every season, because the Shareholders payout is roughly £10,000,000 per year, and my ticket prices never rise, yet again because of static league rep.

So for those of you who are against this, please - download my save game (you can find the 2046 save in this thread, post 1.) and have a read of my career, documented in every detail, and see just how important it is to have this feature.

Yes. I've posted my idea before, but will do so again:

The entire reputation system would be based on expectations vs. performance. Let's start at the national level:

CONCACAF is generally dominated by 2 countries, the US and Mexico. Although we are decent teams on a global level, we are the undisputed kings of the region. As such, we are expected to qualify for the World Cup, preferably as the top two teams. Next would be teams like Costa Rica, Jamaica and Honduras, teams that are expected to reach the final qualifying stage. The other teams generally only hope to make it to the second round. Game wise, here's how it'd break down:

1. The US and Mexico, due to their reputations, would be expected to finish at the top of the qualifying group. Doing so would net them a small increase in reputation (100 points or so.) Failing to qualify would result in a penalty to reputation- the earlier the round, the bigger the penalty.

2. Lower reputation nations would receive a bigger rep bonus for winning the competition, dependent upon where they were predicted to finish (say 200 points per round.) Going out at their predicted finish would result in no change, whereas going out sooner would result in a small decrease in rep.

This would then carry over to the World Cup.

1. The computer would analyze the reputations of all 32 teams, then break them down into expected finishes based on rep. The two highest rep nations would be expected to compete for the Cup, the 4 would be selected for the semi-final round, 8 for the quarters, and 16 for the second stage.

2. Brazil, for instance, would likely be expected to make it to the finals. If they win, they'd see a small increase in rep (seeing as to how there isn't much room for it to improve.) Going out earlier would result in a rep penalty.

3. A team like Honduras, on the other hand, likely wouldn't be expected to reach the second round. Failing to advance wouldn't result in a penalty, then. However, progressing through the various stages would result in bigger gains (say +400 for reaching the second round, +400 for the quarters, +600 for the semis, and +1000 for reaching the final (extremely unlikely, but very beneficial to the country's standing should it happen.)

This would also work in the same manner at the club level:

1. Teams already have a dynamic reputation relative to the league that they're in. Winning everything with an MLS squad year in and year out will never make a team as big as the European giants. However...

2. If a league is given a dynamic rep that is based on international performance, you could see an ever-evolving shift in the football landscape.

3. Follow the same format as in the national scenario. For the UEFA Champion's League, the highest repped leagues would be expected to have at least one team qualify for the final, two for the semi, etc. Each team would then be able to reward or penalize their league's reputation based on their performance. So if the EPL, for example, was expected to have one team in finals and have all four teams make it at least to the knock-out stages, the reputation would be effected by where the teams collectively finished. Even if one team was able to win it, the league could still suffer a loss in reputation if the other 3 teams all failed to make it out of the group stage, based on expectations beforehand.

4. Conversely, if a small team from Austria, which isn't expected to advance out of the opening round, managed to somehow win the tournament it would increase the reputation of the entire Austrian league. Such rises in reputation would then allow for more Austrian teams to enter the competition in the future (at the expense of under-performing leagues.)

With this system, the bigger your league, the bigger the risk for losing prestige. When you're already at the top, there's no place to go but down (aside from staying in place.) However, because of your league's reputation, you would be able to attract better talent, which could bring in more TV revenue, ticket sales, etc. Basically, the big leagues have the advantage to remain on top, but there'd be enough flexibility for a smaller league/team to string together decent success and increase their standing in the footballing world (much as Russian teams have done recently.)

@ Tez01979

Those two post clearly emphasize why dynamic league reputation is needed for those really long term games.

Doesn't it emphasize the opposite? - even with the current system they're doing just fine in N. Ireland/Iceland. Is the purpose of this idea that they should never lose a match and never have to replace their players?

Doesn't it emphasize the opposite? - even with the current system they're doing just fine in N. Ireland/Iceland. Is the purpose of this idea that they should never lose a match and never have to replace their players?

No, of course not. But should it be so overly hard for someone from this nation to find these players to keep the squad fresh, just because of the league rep?

@ Tez01979

Those two post clearly emphasize why dynamic league reputation is needed for those really long term games.

No, of course not. But should it be so overly hard for someone from this nation to find these players to keep the squad fresh, just because of the league rep?

That's my point - if they're still having the kind of success they report, it can't be that overly hard to do just that.

Its hard. Its me thats the guy in N. Ireland, and I can't begin to tell you how much time goes into keeping my team as good as possible.

I think NepentheZ's post sums it up perfectly. I am not like him though and I only play maybe 5 or 6 seasons max with a team (hopefully longer on FM10) but it makes total sense to ad a dynamic league reputation. Whoever said it was not possible is stupid. Obviously its not gonna be easy but definately not out of the realm of possibility.

If FM is supposed to be the realisitic manager around its gonna have to improve on this aspect of an already beautiful game.

Some excellent discussion in here , and 90% + in favour of yes!

This topic is the bane of my FM existance. i frequentley manage my team rangers, and when i have a good game with them ( i won the cahmpions league, making 3 finals in 4 years back in 07) there is a cap you can reach and some players refuse to come to you. you constantly have to go round the teams signing the best youth players in the hope they stay with you long enough to become good. it's frustrating that no matter how far i drag Scotland up the national coefficiants so that we have 3 champions league spots, nothing changes regarding the calibre of player i can sign. i have posted on the idea of dynamic league reps before but my idea is slightly varied to yours.

my idea goes along the lines of having a league rep linked to your nations position in the coefficiants. so the top two leagues around 18, with thrid 17, then the next three at 16 and so on down the scale, so if you managed to get enough points for your nation your country's position in the national coefficiants would be directly proportional to your leagues reputation.

Having read many discussions on this topic i understand that it would be hard to code and implement but if it was achieved then it would add so much more to a long term game.

This topic is the bane of my FM existance. i frequentley manage my team rangers, and when i have a good game with them ( i won the cahmpions league, making 3 finals in 4 years back in 07) there is a cap you can reach and some players refuse to come to you. you constantly have to go round the teams signing the best youth players in the hope they stay with you long enough to become good. it's frustrating that no matter how far i drag Scotland up the national coefficiants so that we have 3 champions league spots, nothing changes regarding the calibre of player i can sign. i have posted on the idea of dynamic league reps before but my idea is slightly varied to yours.

my idea goes along the lines of having a league rep linked to your nations position in the coefficiants. so the top two leagues around 18, with thrid 17, then the next three at 16 and so on down the scale, so if you managed to get enough points for your nation your country's position in the national coefficiants would be directly proportional to your leagues reputation.

Having read many discussions on this topic i understand that it would be hard to code and implement but if it was achieved then it would add so much more to a long term game.

I think that the reason SI has failed to implement this is because it could be difficult. But if done correctly, FM would be a massive game, encouraging long term games to be played. Perhaps, this would be implemented in FM 2011?

Brilliant idea, I didnt realise it was a problem until 09 when I was managing NK Olimija Bezigrad from Slovenia. The league never got better around me, allowing me to win it 8 consecutive times easily, and it never allowed me to attract the kind of players/tv rights or sponsorship to compete in europe, it ruined my game. Please SI get it done

I think NepentheZ's post sums it up perfectly. I am not like him though and I only play maybe 5 or 6 seasons max with a team (hopefully longer on FM10) but it makes total sense to ad a dynamic league reputation. Whoever said it was not possible is stupid. Obviously its not gonna be easy but definately not out of the realm of possibility.

If FM is supposed to be the realisitic manager around its gonna have to improve on this aspect of an already beautiful game.

This topic is the bane of my FM existance. i frequentley manage my team rangers, and when i have a good game with them ( i won the cahmpions league, making 3 finals in 4 years back in 07) there is a cap you can reach and some players refuse to come to you. you constantly have to go round the teams signing the best youth players in the hope they stay with you long enough to become good. it's frustrating that no matter how far i drag Scotland up the national coefficiants so that we have 3 champions league spots, nothing changes regarding the calibre of player i can sign. i have posted on the idea of dynamic league reps before but my idea is slightly varied to yours.

my idea goes along the lines of having a league rep linked to your nations position in the coefficiants. so the top two leagues around 18, with thrid 17, then the next three at 16 and so on down the scale, so if you managed to get enough points for your nation your country's position in the national coefficiants would be directly proportional to your leagues reputation.

Having read many discussions on this topic i understand that it would be hard to code and implement but if it was achieved then it would add so much more to a long term game.

You've kind of made my point for me in a way though. I know scottish football as i'm a Celtic fan myself. do you really expect the Scottish divisions league rep to actually go up.

There was a point where it looked likely when Celtic was in the Uefa cup Final in 2003 and things did improve with other younger players from hibs, hearts ect coming through but look at the leauge now. The rep is as bad as ever even though Rangers made it to the UEFA cup final (underservadly, not cos i'm a Celtic fan but because they played crap football) and everyone stays at clubs for two mins then jumps ship. Nothings changed and won't either as Rangers and Celtic want to go to England to play (which thankfully has been rejected today by all EPL clubs)

The fundemental of my point being. This is the way it is and ppl should deal

"Whoever said it was not possible is stupid" Quote from ealier on

No one said is was not possible so no one is stupid. The real issue is if it were to be done would it be beneficial to all gamers. I agree that ppl who play up to 2020 and beyond should look as af they are being rewarded somehow to bring better players in etc, but at the same time ppl who play for 5 -6 seasons max are able to see the minutest changes possible as these players proberbly enjoy the realism of how it is.

It's more challenging to win the CL or the Uefa cup if you don't have the biggest world class players thats what makes the game for me and for this to change just to make my life a little bit easier and to boast i've won this cup and this cup with this world class player and this world class player doesn't really appeal to me, I'd rather have the challenge.

But at the same time ppl who play for 5 -6 seasons max are able to see the minutest changes possible as these players proberbly enjoy the realism of how it is.

Dynamic league reputation would be such a slow prossess that you probably wont notice any change in the gaming world before you hit the ten year mark, so you, and others, have nothing to be worried about.

Voted yes, but I only want that to a certain extent. +/-1 is absolutely enough.