Why do YOU think the scene has lost its community feeling?

We've moaned long enough, but let's find out WHY the scene doesn't feel as friendly or as helpful as it was just a few years ago.

Why do you think the scene is a less fun place to be in, why has it become more serious?

Discuss.

We've moaned long enough, but let's find out WHY the scene doesn't feel as friendly or as helpful as it was just a few years ago.

Why do you think the scene is a less fun place to be in, why has it become more serious?

Discuss.

To do with the game, maybe?

A lot of people say that the game isn't much of a game any more, it's a simulation. In that respect, maybe the FM scene is no longer fun and people take it too seriously?

Just an idea.

Really? I thought lately it has been the opportsite with the CDP, the wiki and other projects.

I think what one of the main issues here is down to FM being a solitary game, it is designed on the most part to be a single player experience (multiplayer does feel tacked on to be fair)

Therefore a person playing FM doesn't need much to actually play his/her game. It's not like a MMORPG (which generally have vibrant communities) or other online eSports games (such as Counter strike or RTS games) which generally attract a larger community because there is an online element as well as a competive element as well.

Very rarely do you hear of epic stories of competition between players of the game (which reflects its single player status). Give FM some really extensive online options and getting people playing FM against each other and not the AI and you are bound to see a pickup and more competitive/active community.

Of late, well maybe it's returning to an attitude of helping each other, but then you've really got to ask the motives of some people.

The Wiki and the CPD - well they were started by us as a means of helping the community, however the people that use it... are they using it to help the community, or are they looking to find out if they can benefit from it?

The Wiki - they can stick their own sites on there, so some may see it as an opportunity to advertise.

The CPD - eventually lots of files, no cost to run a downloads area on a site. Who wouldn't want to grab a piece of the action and try and get people to come to their site?

There isn't a "true" spirit where we see each other take time out to give each other a mention. When was the last time Susie mentioned that TI had written a really useful guide for example, or when was the last time somebody came up with a really, REALLY good idea but it didn't get one mention anywhere on the planet?

It's better than it was this time last month, but in terms of helping the community, it's you, me, and Rob. And how much coverage have our projects managed to get?

I think it's partly the fact that the new breed of web masters aren't the same as the old skool lot from the CM4 days.

But why is that Mezz? Are the new breed a lot younger than we were when we started out? I think the lot from the CM4 era were in their late teens. Are the current lot starting out younger than that?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Caleyjag:

It's better than it was this time last month, but in terms of helping the community, it's you, me, and Rob. And how much coverage have our projects managed to get? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I find the scene is rather inward looking, I see people worrying that they need to compete with other sites rather than work with them? For me personally if a website wanted to advertise on the wiki then sure PROVIDING they actually offer something that other vistors of the wiki thought was useful.

I mean look at all the forum communities we have, most of these places could share costs, time and energy by merging into a hand full of forum communities, all those combined could easily share the power of the forums and each one have a specific place for their own site if they wanted feedback.

Think of it as the community download project but just for forums

But going back to my original point all the sites need a us (webmasters) and them (vistors) mentality where we work as a larger team to help our vistors because at the end of the day we are all on the same side

It would be great for example if those not only active in the scene from a website point of view could come together (perhaps IRC would be a good place to do this) discussing ideas etc but if you had all these webmasters in one place you are bound to get alot of interest from the guys/girls who use the sites giving their feedback also.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mezzair:

I think it's partly the fact that the new breed of web masters aren't the same as the old skool lot from the CM4 days. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing

Believe it or not, a year or so ago I was toying with the idea of coding a forum that all sites of the scene could use, but it only got as far as the idea stage, and I didn't take it any further.

You've got it right when you say that sites are competing with each other, but I also think the larger sites aren't promoting the smaller sites like they used to.

I know the likes of Susie, Throw-In etc. don't have a duty to talk about other sites or let people know of new sites they might be interested in, they can just ignore all other sites around them and concentrate on themselves, which you can't begrudge people from doing, but back when I first started a fansite, you really needed the larger sites to help you pull in the first batch of visitors to help you grow.

There are really good sites out there, sites that no-one even knows about, because no-one is telling others about them. Perfect example? http://www.sortitoutsi.net/index.php?page=articles&view=incat&cat=4

As a large site, I did feel there was an obligation Susie should tell others about different sites. Was it going to harm who came to Susie? No, I knew Susie was the only real place to get downloads. And if people decided to go to a different site other than mine, well at least it would get me thinking "I have to improve" to get these people back, to make my site worth visiting again.

The sites that DO promote the scene, that DO do something worthwhile that others need to know about, they get 100 visitors a day if they are lucky, and it'll be the same people over and over again.

I know you get people that say "I do this because I want to" but there is a point you get to when you ask yourself "why am I bothering when no-one is even noticing". That's the point we're at with a lot of new sites. No-one visits, no-one knows about them unless you visit the Portal (and how much advertising has that had on the bigger sites?)

So, in my opinion, one very large reason the scene is pretty poor, is that the larger sites aren't promoting it.

That susie link you posted, doesnt even mention CMFrenzy.com, unless im completely blind i didnt see it. One site which has been an old dog and around even before Susie, so no Susie is not doing everything it can. The sites which are, are the fm portal and the fmwiki... Other then those very few sites list the top 20, not even SI do.

AS for the community feeling, is there ever a solidarity between the majority of fansites?

The large sites just don't understand the word community outside their own forums.

Susie run 1 scene article in 6 months and 4 in the last year

Throw-in is better (and improving) but not much better

FM Britain just never covers anybody at all, never has as far as I know

FAQ was never that hot either.

I could go on but when you compare them to the smaller sites Footygamer, Blog FM, FM Wiki we pretty much mention other sites every other news post.

If anyone wants to share forum space give me a shout, I've been thinking of relaunching the original forum/hosting/network element of Footygamer.

why do we care so much about the scene???

different sites offer different stuff.. its a matter of picking the one u like and feel welcomed with..

susie has their own regular members, throw in and even fmunderground.

majority are using this forum which has always been the best place to visit..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FM Underground:

different sites offer different stuff.. its a matter of picking the one u like and feel welcomed with..

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly, how do people know which is the best site for their needs if we don't link to each other?

Im a bit older than probably most fm players and this year i started a site and paid for the hosting,forums,and domain etc.

It started as a hobby and at the time i saw there was a need for a more independent site,not a big mainstream site like susie but somewhere friendly to pass on tips,stories etc.

Unfortunately the new breed of fm players are younger than most of us and talk total rubbish on the forums,they are not the sort of people in the real world i would associate myself with and with all the work i did for my site im a bit gutted that a lot of them are intent on causing mayhem on forums.

I asked around for dedicated website staff but in all fairness there isnt many out there.

I am totally commited to building a website just so people have a choice instead of going to the main big ones.

For a new site to open and stay open needs only one thing now in my opinion after my experiences and that is dedicated staff.

I agree with most of the things said there tbh

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For a new site to open and stay open needs only one thing now in my opinion after my experiences and that is dedicated staff. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True you do need dedication, but not necessarily dedicated staff, the fm portal and first eleven have had pretty good success with only one man at the helm, nobody needs an entire staff team, just start small and build up.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mickeycee:

Im a bit older than probably most fm players... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you'd be surprised at just how old some FM players are, and remember, maturity doesn't necessarily come with age.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Timster:

That susie link you posted, doesnt even mention CMFrenzy.com, unless im completely blind i didnt see it. One site which has been an old dog and around even before Susie, so no Susie is not doing everything it can. The sites which are, are the fm portal and the fmwiki... Other then those very few sites list the top 20, not even SI do.

AS for the community feeling, is there ever a solidarity between the majority of fansites? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does it need to mention CM Frenzy? You got the wrong end of the stick I think, I was referring to how often it would discuss scene releated items a year or two ago whereas now it doesn't bother.

Ya.. understood you wrong, thought you were praising them.

Good god no

Maybe I worded it wrong or something

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smiggs:

FM Britain just never covers anybody at all, never has as far as I know

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right - it's never been an area FM-Britain has concentrated on. However, it is an area we're looking at improving, so hopefully we'll have some staff dedicated to that area before too long.

We're all for the idea of greater cooperation and have been discussing ideas on how to reach out to others in the community and form more collaborative bonds. Some of those ideas are already being implemented.

Some good points have been raised in this thread - too much competitiveness, too little cooperation, too much territorialism, too much negativity, too many sites, too many immature idiots (no offence to the intelligent people who post there, but you only have to look in GQ to see what I mean).

The most important point made though is about dedication, imo. From the general tone of complaints made all over the scene about how FM takes up too much time and people can't just pick it up and win the Premier with it in their first season, it seems that a lot of FM players have become less dedicated to the game and want to make less of an effort than many of the old-timers do/did. And although some of the younger players are making some excellent contributions to the scene, it's clear that there are a lot more younger players around than there used to be, and as we oldies know, life can be very distracting when you're young

Perhaps it's simply a case of waiting for the present generation of FM players to grow up a bit and become more dedicated and less easily distracted than is the case at present. On the other hand, perhaps this is how it's going to be from now on - fewer dedicated fans, fewer dedicated contributors.

However, the bright side to all this is that the smarter people out there (including most of the people in this thread, ofc) see this and are trying to do something about it before it's too late.

KUTGW

To me, starting out a FM site is basically to learn about HTML/PHP and also web designing.

Now after 7 years of owning a then CM, now FM site, im thankful to SI for this game.

Without it, I wouldnt have known my talent is actually in this field.

It only takes 1 dedicated, motivated webmaster who has vast experience in FM to control a FM site and make it successful.

He can spend countless of hours everyday to make fresh contents. Its just a matter of doing it or not.

Many out there just likes to be in control. But sadly, "empty vessel makes the most noise"..

They keep yapping about how their site is going to be #1, needing like 5 more staff to help him through but in the end, he does nothing.

I think its fair that no one in here criticises anymore FM sites. From now on, period.

The scene offers different types of sites and its down to the visitors to choose and stay.

Firstly, we need to actually question SI's Affiliate Scheme. It started out almost 2 years ago but now it just died.

If we as FM webmasters wish to work together, then lets create a board of members consisting only veteran and currently owning a complete FM site.

This board can be used to control the FM scene and i believe it will be useful in the future.

You cannot control the fm scene, it evolves organically any attempt to control it will be ignored. You can only hope to influence the content of sites by linking to them and saying that this content is good or equally saying something is bad (perhaps not something for the frontpage of a site!). You have to have critcism and review in a community but equally it must be fair and balanced. How do we tell people looking for a million staff that they only need one person i.e. themselves to be successful?

FM Underground - There's nothing wrong with criticism so long as it's produced in a constructive manner. It's what helps sites progress and I for one am always grateful to receive criticism, however hard hitting it may be.

As for controlling the FM scene, look no further than the ever wise words of Smiggs.

hmmm i believe by creating the board of webmasters, everything will be centralised.

it will be the place to be heard and voice out concerns. advertise new sites, job centre.. it also is a great way to communicate directly with SI..

i dont really mean "control" the fm scene but maintain it.

well its just an idea

We did have a webmaster forum, but its since deceased, anybody who had an easy contact us on their site was invited

At the moment I think the SIAS forum has taken over, any site is getting excepted nowadays and some have even been invited, which personally I think it's a bit unfair as now i'm rather insulted the portal wasn't invited, but nonetheless it's a place for webmasters to get together and talk, you've benefited more than anyone from the SIAS FMU as you've been on the "most recent addition" and thus been the most likely site for visitors to click for donkeys, why not give something back by getting on with stuff in the forum and getting webmasters together to make this place better?

oh and as for the coming onto the community to learn thing, totally agree, I only joined because I wanted to learn how to build websites, I started off in frontpage and a year later and i'm using php, sql, css, ajax and javascript on a daily basis

I've also improved my ability to write tenfold, I can look at by articles from a year ago and they're nothing on today, I still don't consider myself a good writer, but it's something that's enjoyable and if I continue to improve will definetly be useful in the future.

So yeah, joining the community doesn't just have to be due to a love of FM, I hate the blasted game to be honest it gets right on my tits sometimes

Thing is why create a forum for webmasters if that in itself will change nothing.

I mean currently lots of sites could do things right now without one extra piece of forum software being deployed

Heck most sites could plug almost every updating site on the scene without lifting a finger by doing what I already did and just include an RSS feed to Rob's portal and stick it on their front page

You dont even have to own or have ever played FM to run a site these days , its true if you can make a beautiful main site well coded, with the right staff , you can just complement the gfx, and post in the off-topic, Not that I dont play it, dont get much time anymore, but not as much as I used to.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Elrawkum:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smiggs:

FM Britain just never covers anybody at all, never has as far as I know

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right - it's never been an area FM-Britain has concentrated on. However, it is an area we're looking at improving, so hopefully we'll have some staff dedicated to that area before too long.

We're all for the idea of greater cooperation and have been discussing ideas on how to reach out to others in the community and form more collaborative bonds. Some of those ideas are already being implemented.

Some good points have been raised in this thread - too much competitiveness, too little cooperation, too much territorialism, too much negativity, too many sites, too many immature idiots (no offence to the intelligent people who post there, but you only have to look in GQ to see what I mean).

The most important point made though is about dedication, imo. From the general tone of complaints made all over the scene about how FM takes up too much time and people can't just pick it up and win the Premier with it in their first season, it seems that a lot of FM players have become less dedicated to the game and want to make less of an effort than many of the old-timers do/did. And although some of the younger players are making some excellent contributions to the scene, it's clear that there are a lot more younger players around than there used to be, and as we oldies know, life can be very distracting when you're young

Perhaps it's simply a case of waiting for the present generation of FM players to grow up a bit and become more dedicated and less easily distracted than is the case at present. On the other hand, perhaps this is how it's going to be from now on - fewer dedicated fans, fewer dedicated contributors.

However, the bright side to all this is that the smarter people out there (including most of the people in this thread, ofc) see this and are trying to do something about it before it's too late.

KUTGW </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sadly i feel its the latter. Simply down to the fact that more and more people now have access to the internet. I come onto the SI forums only i must admit, and havn't really given much thought to any affilite sites. However with the deteriaration of the GQ forum im finding myself looking further afield. It would help someone like me greatly if there was some cohesion between the community.

More co-operation between sites would be great in order for me to make a more informed choice of alternative sites to this one. And i don't see the need to worry about the competition as i imagine "the cream will rise to the top" in the end come what may.

I hope what i wrote above is in context. To add to it, as someone who has no knowledge or experience of producing websites, i would like to say that worrying about linking or mentioning similar sites on any given webpage seems crazy. I dont go on a site and immediately look for links off it. I like most people i hope give that site a chance by looking at its content. If its not for me then i will look at the links page obviously. But if the original site wasnt for me anyway, i wouldn't stay, links or not.

Mostly because now every site is trying to compete with each other, and the staff and some members have forgotten that FM at the end of the day is a game. And the purpose is to have FUN.

But i donot agree that the scene is not helpful. Almost everyone will help to the best of their ability, even though the tone has changed to a more official one.

I think what everyone should remember is that scene is a hobby and it should be enjoyable.