What's with teams coming back when you're ahead all the time?

I'm using Weston Super Mare...I've led the last four games up until the 75th minute, and each game, they've managed two goals and won.

The last game I played was CM 03/04, where this didn't happen. I'm wondering if this is normal

I'm using Weston Super Mare...I've led the last four games up until the 75th minute, and each game, they've managed two goals and won.

The last game I played was CM 03/04, where this didn't happen. I'm wondering if this is normal

It's the 4-2-4 formation that most teams will switch to in the last 10-15 mins and hammer you. I'd go defensive during that time.

It's one of the things that does bother me in the game, well patch.

You have to pay attention and alter your tactics when the oppo goes on all-out attack, just like any manager would do in real life.

There are a lot of threads explaining what to do both in this forum and especially in the Tactics forum.

Yeah, but then when I go defensive, they come at me non-stop. It seems like it's even worse, and they eventually can't hold.

What's a good solution to this? I mean, I usually attack so the times I've gone to defense, I've conceeded, and when I attack, I've also conceeded.

Knock timwasting to full, passing to long.

Go completely ultra-defensive. Time wasting all the way up. Defensive line Deep.

It'll hold them back. Even bump up your midfielders closing down.

They'll attack like vultures, but it is possible to hold them. The only thing to worry about usually during that time is penalties, corners or free kicks. Corners mostly.

I remember being 1-0 up when they switched to 4-2-4 and the last few seconds of inury time, they were awarded a penalty. My keeper saved it. I really couldn't watch it. Then the whistle blew. My heart was pumping heh.

Was just up 1-0 with blackburn at anfield away to liverpool.

Pool switched to a 4--2-4 in 80th min. I go counter defensive.

Crouch headed goal 87th min 1-1. Not too shabby tho a point away to liverpool, but i always itch at the thought maybe i shouldnt have gone defensive!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MattUK:

Was just up 1-0 with blackburn at anfield away to liverpool.

Pool switched to a 4--2-4 in 80th min. I go counter defensive.

Crouch headed goal 87th min 1-1. Not too shabby tho a point away to liverpool, but i always itch at the thought maybe i shouldnt have gone defensive! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'd be kicking yourself if you didn't go defensive. I made the mistake and turned a 4-3 match against arsenal to an 8-4 loss.

I think it's kind of sad for the big teams to result to the 4-2-4 though. They have the players to win, but still are forced to use the tactic.

Makes me wonder why they don't use it from the start of the match. Nap a 5-0 lead, then go ultra defensive for the rest of the game.

Glad it doesn't happen that way though.

the match engine is fecked

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillyLikesFish&Chips:

the match engine is fecked </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing wrong with the engine.

You just suck.

I tried Ultra Defensive and it's working a bit more. I've climbed all the way to 8th in Conference South!

Cheers!

In FM07 Reading would in fact start the match with 4-2-4. Reason they were so hard to beat for a human manager. Doyle scoring and Lita etc

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sublime :

I'm using Weston Super Mare...I've led the last four games up until the 75th minute, and each game, they've managed two goals and won.

The last game I played was CM 03/04, where this didn't happen. I'm wondering if this is normal </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to remember that CM03/04 was possibly the worst ever CM/FM, maybe slighty behind CM4.

Eh, it's not working for me anymore.

Now, whenever I switch to ultra defensive and wasting time, they end up with a corner somehow, and score, and then score again.

Bah.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sublime :

I'm using Weston Super Mare...I've led the last four games up until the 75th minute, and each game, they've managed two goals and won.

The last game I played was CM 03/04, where this didn't happen. I'm wondering if this is normal </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you kidding me!

IMO CM03/04 was the most enjoyable out of all the cm/fm series.

spent many a nights/mornings wasting away on that game . Ahhh....the memories...

Really Enjoying fm08 at the moment though.

You have to remember that CM03/04 was possibly the worst ever CM/FM, maybe slighty behind CM4. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sublime :

I'm using Weston Super Mare...I've led the last four games up until the 75th minute, and each game, they've managed two goals and won.

The last game I played was CM 03/04, where this didn't happen. I'm wondering if this is normal </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to remember that CM03/04 was possibly the worst ever CM/FM, maybe slighty behind CM4. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry for the double post but i messed that up

Are you kidding me!

IMO CM03/04 was the most enjoyable out of all the cm/fm series.

spent many a nights/mornings wasting away on that game . Ahhh....the memories...

Really Enjoying fm08 at the moment though.

wwfan gave me a great tip for the old "4-2-4"..

(though, really, I shouldn't name tactics)

He said to sarrow your FW's and "Play down both flanks", this coupled with your defensive tactic (which you should have one made up, preferably a 4-4-2) usually not only stifles the AI, but more often that not brings a goal or two to kill off any AI fight back.

Sorry to mods for naming tatics, I felt it was warranted. You may edit/delete if you have to

Man, such BS.

I've adjusted my stance to Defensive, my line back, my passes to long, everything.

And yet, they ALWAYS seem to get a goal in the 80th minute to tie, and consequently, in the 90th minute to win.

I can't defend corners for crap. Is there a trick to it? I mean, everytime they have a corner in the last two minutes, they're guaranteed to score against me.

My last few results:

4-2 Loss

3-3 Tie

4-3 Loss

2-1 Loss

3-1 Loss

4-2 Win

1-0 Loss

2-2 Tie

2-0 Win

2-1 Loss

2-2 Tie

I'm not even kidding. It's ridiculous because if I score, they WILL score. If I score in the last 5 minutes, they'll score 2 in the last three minutes. It doesn't seem like you can do crap to stop them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sublime :

My last few results:

4-2 Loss

3-3 Tie

4-3 Loss

2-1 Loss

3-1 Loss

4-2 Win

1-0 Loss

2-2 Tie

2-0 Win

2-1 Loss

2-2 Tie

I'm not even kidding. It's ridiculous because if I score, they WILL score. If I score in the last 5 minutes, they'll score 2 in the last three minutes. It doesn't seem like you can do crap to stop them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I absolutely feel for you and being pretty new to FM08 too, I been in your situation all to often.

Please see my follow threads of empathy to relieve your tension.

It's therapy you know.

stat attack:

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/9702089683

AI cheat mode:

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/2892075683

I mean, I don't understand the game.

It seems like every team plays 4-2-4. Is that even a tactic teams use? I mean, it's not even legit like 4-4-2 or 3-4-3 or 4-5-1, you know...

Teams can't fail it seems, when coming back. I just had a game where I was home, and I was leading 1-0, and suddenly, the other team decided to switch to 4-2-4, scored 2 goals in 10 minutes and won 2-1.

I mean, are you serious? That's BS.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sublime :

I'm using Weston Super Mare...I've led the last four games up until the 75th minute, and each game, they've managed two goals and won.

The last game I played was CM 03/04, where this didn't happen. I'm wondering if this is normal </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh noes not Weston Super Mare......... TBH thats how they play IRL ;-)

Wells City FTW

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bytheway:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sublime :

I'm using Weston Super Mare...I've led the last four games up until the 75th minute, and each game, they've managed two goals and won.

The last game I played was CM 03/04, where this didn't happen. I'm wondering if this is normal </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to remember that CM03/04 was possibly the worst ever CM/FM, maybe slighty behind CM4. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry for the double post but i messed that up

Are you kidding me!

IMO CM03/04 was the most enjoyable out of all the cm/fm series.

spent many a nights/mornings wasting away on that game . Ahhh....the memories...

Really Enjoying fm08 at the moment though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's no doubt that 03/04 was enjoyable, I had my longest and most fun career game on it with Bolton. It was just far far far too easy and is definately behind the likes of 97/97, 01/02 and the FM series.

When I say worst I don't mean it was bad I just thought it was really easy and not asd good as the others.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sublime :

I mean, I don't understand the game.

It seems like every team plays 4-2-4. Is that even a tactic teams use? I mean, it's not even legit like 4-4-2 or 3-4-3 or 4-5-1, you know...

Teams can't fail it seems, when coming back. I just had a game where I was home, and I was leading 1-0, and suddenly, the other team decided to switch to 4-2-4, scored 2 goals in 10 minutes and won 2-1.

I mean, are you serious? That's BS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's another thread about this opena the minute in which a lot of people have said they only experience defeat at the hands of 4-2-4 when they don't alter their tactics to combat it. I'm definately inclined to agree with this.

Most players of FM will play a slightly attacking tactic and to maintain an attacking mentality when playing against a four man front line is suicide. I have never lost to a 4-2-4 because as soon as I see the AI implement it I change to a more reserved tactic.

It works both ways as I also change to a 4-3-3 which is essentially a 4-1-5 when you take wingers into account, when i'm losing or drawing and I have achieved great success with this.

with bishop's stortford i was 4-0 up and drew 4-4 and next game i was 3-0 up and drew 3-3, the equalisers were both the last kick of the game

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ka-Pa-Ro:

with bishop's stortford i was 4-0 up and drew 4-4 and next game i was 3-0 up and drew 3-3, the equalisers were both the last kick of the game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you alter your tactics to deal with 4-2-4? Did you maintain an attacking mentality?

My feeling is that FM08 is more volatile, allowing trailing teams a second chance a little too often. You can be up 4-0 at half time adjust your tactics accordingly and still have an uneasy feeling. And sure enough, your opponent scores seconds into the last 45 minutes. Then wham, bang and it's 4-3. You try desperately to reorganize but to no avail. The damage has already been done: the half-time team talk. You should never have praised their performance. Curses! The game ends 4-4. "What a game", the commentator concludes but I am irate, itching to fine the entire squad but the game won't allow me.

Another point, cup-type matches played at home and away also suffer from this mysterious disease. Have a look at the simulated AI matches. Incredible comebacks in nearly every round. X win by 4 at home but lose by 5 away. It happens in real life, yes, but it's very, very rare.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Neyles:

My feeling is that FM08 is more volatile, allowing trailing teams a second chance a little too often. You can be up 4-0 at half time adjust your tactics accordingly and still have an uneasy feeling. And sure enough, your opponent scores seconds into the last 45 minutes. Then wham, bang and it's 4-3. You try desperately to reorganize but to no avail. The damage has already been done: the half-time team talk. You should never have praised their performance. Curses! The game ends 4-4. "What a game", the commentator concludes but I am irate, itching to fine the entire squad but the game won't allow me.

Another point, cup-type matches played at home and away also suffer from this mysterious disease. Have a look at the simulated AI matches. Incredible comebacks in nearly every round. X win by 4 at home but lose by 5 away. It happens in real life, yes, but it's very, very rare. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point.

The randomness coding used by FM08 to simulate RL occasions has gone into overdrive and contradicting the what phrase 'one off’ actually means.

As far as I've found you don't tend to enjoy the game because a goal can come form anywhere no matter what sense of control you think you have over the game. Whether this is realistic is debatable but it is certainly not enjoyable, even if I win, I feel its just a token gesture by the AI who have eventually let us off the hook and it could of picked me off when it wants it.

I have read on another thread somewhere an excellent line to demonstrate how it feels when you first start playing 8.0.2:

‘It feels like you are playing against a collective not an individual opponent because they all seem to know what to do when they‘re losing or just need to score.’

I know that it doesn’t take a tactical mastermind to understand that 4-2-4 is an attacking and potentially dangerous formation to defend against, but this doesn’t make it any easier for a new-comer to take when he doesn’t expect it. No matter whether I’m favourite or not before a game, has a new-comer to FM2008, I’m not confident I can complete with the AI on a level playing field at this stage.

However I am willing to learn.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bullybeef:

I know that it doesn’t take a tactical mastermind to understand that 4-2-4 is an attacking and potentially dangerous formation to defend against, but this doesn’t make it any easier for a new-comer to take when he doesn’t expect it. No matter whether I’m favourite or not before a game, has a new-comer to FM2008, I’m not confident I can complete with the AI on a level playing field at this stage.

However I am willing to learn. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surely that's whats ets FM out from all the rest of the managment games.

I've been playing CM/FM for 10 years now and I have no idea at all what i'm doing when I first get the game every year. I did well in FM07 so I incorporate the same type of tactic in FM08, I get totally annihilated.

4-2-4, yes it's irritating and yes to a new comer it's incredibly hard to understand and find a way to deal with it. The thing is, one day you will and when that happens it's great. All of a sudden you have mastered it and the world is your oyster.

That's why FM is the best, whilst I can achieve instant success on games like LMA and Fifa, I actually have to work to get it in FM and IMO it's far more rwewarding because of it.

Essentially the thing that makes FM stand out from the rest is that it can invoke emotions in so many different ways, I love actually jumping out of the chair when I win the CL and I love the emotion it creates when I go out of the cup to lesser opposition. No other game has ever ben able to create anything like it (except fear in Silent Hill) and I wouldn't have it any other way.

This happens to me too, and my housemate who plays with me always complains. The thing is that you need to act to negate their tactical changes. I play 3-5-2, so in the last 10 minutes I usually throw on a DM and go 3-1-5-1, put counter attack on, put on direct passing, and throw on a pacy striker.

Sorry about this turning into a thread about me moaning about the game in advance.

It's just that in CM 02/03, I had one of the most enjoyable experiences with any game ever, and now, I'm not puzzled by how much my team has regressed (we were 6th last year, and using the same tactics and better personnel, I've got my whole team against me and I'm sitting in 18th place).

Then games that I should win (that I need to win), I feel I'm getting cheated out of.

At this time, I'm trying to change my tactics up. In the spirit of the game, I try not to use any cheat tactics to ensure I blow out teams, and would rather use a standard tactic and try and outsmart opponents, but in the end, they run this crap formation, and because I can't stop it, I just don't feel like playing anymore because I know I'll never get it right.

What have I tried recently? I usually play through the middle of the pitch, so when time comes, around the 70th minute where I'm leading by a goal or two, I switch to defensive, deep back line, normal tackling, playing down the flanks, counter attacking, and closing down in my own half, and still, I get crushed. Especially when it comes to a Corner Kick, when the pitch comes up, it seems like 99.9% of the time, they score. I hate watching because my team inevitably loses, and it's painful to watch four strikers counter on some stupid idiotic long pass by the Goalkeeper, with a 4-2 situation, and make a mockery of my team.

Sorry about this rant, and this thread, but I'm just so horribly frustrated, I don't know where else to post it.

I usually switch to a 5-4-1 (with a sweeper) with 10 minutes to go. Ultra defensive, narrow width, lots of time wasting etc. and it works more often than not. Oh, and I avoid watching the last 10 minutes in full, just the key moments to avoid having a heart attack.

I attempted a battle of wits with the CPU. They pulled out the 4-2-4 and I tested them with the same formation. They murdered me with it.

I've also experienced me switching to play down the flanks as soon as they switched to 4-2-4 and they immediately switched defensive with 5 players at the back. Annoyed the hell out of me.

The one thing that always bothers me though is the CPU can switch tactics anytime they want, and I have to pause, switch tactics, and sometimes have to wait like 2 minutes before it switches and they could put the ball past me during that time.

Ah well. Someone will come up with a diablo of a solution.

I think morale ought to affect the AI MUCH more than it currently does.

The amazing comeback or fighting draw is rare.

In FM it can happen every game, regardless of your opposition thanks to 4-2-4.

Yet in reality, how often does a team fight back from 2-0 down in the last 20 mis? I'll wager hardly ever.

I always seem to concede whenever I go defensive. When the AI switches to 424, I just make my defensive line incredibly deep and switch the formation around to have 2 DMs but I never switch the mentality to defensive. Using this, I usually have a lot of possession score a lot on the counter attack in the final minutes of games.

I wouldn't change anything about your team mentality, just fiddle around with formations and individual player mentality. And yes, put on high time-wasting.

I always seem to concede whenever I go defensive. When the AI switches to 424, I just make my defensive line incredibly deep and switch the formation around to have 2 DMs but I never switch the mentality to defensive. Using this, I usually have a lot of possession score a lot on the counter attack in the final minutes of games.

I wouldn't change anything about your team mentality, just fiddle around with formations and individual player mentality. And yes, put on high time-wasting.

you mean like they do in football?

I just want to had my point because I stuggled with the 4-2-4 formation and if you’re a new to FM08, then it can a goal can come out of nowhere, often against the run of play.

I found defending the 4-2-4 is simply a numbers game. Just mimic your opponents but do it defensively. I just recently had a big test against the 4-2-4 masters, Arsenal. 6th round FA at their placed, once I went 4-1 up they bombarded be. To be honest I did ride my luck with deflections and my keeper, but I just simply brought on an extra CB and played with 5 at the back.

Sometimes it may not be pretty but unfortunately that’s the way FM have gone. Took me a while to accept it.

Again, just playing devils advocate and evoke discussion, if we look at this years English FA cup, there has been many shocks and teams playing above themselves and better much better teams. What we have to remember is examine exactly what happened in these games. Take Barnsley’s 2-1 win over Liverpool at Anfield. Liverpool battered Barnsley, this was concurred by pundits and even the Barnsley manager. Liverpool left out some 1st team players and they still simply couldn’t beat a keeper who was having probably his best ever game. They rode their luck and pulled of an amazing victory. Their next tie at home Chelsea was different because their mentality was high tempo, high closing down and aggressive. Something we associate with Chelsea is resilience, but Barnsley didn’t give the time to play. Chelsea also ‘rested’ some first team players. Their Keeper didn’t need to rescue them this time because Barnsley bodies were flying in front of every shot on target.

My point is, this years FA cup has prove shocks can happen but when was the last time one of the top four clubs didn’t win the FA cup?? Everton in 1995! So that makes just one real big shock in the FA cup for 13 years!!

Maybe FM needs to reflect how often shocks happen IRL.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bullybeef:

My point is, this years FA cup has prove shocks can happen but when was the last time one of the top four clubs didn’t win the FA cup?? Everton in 1995! So that makes just one real big shock in the FA cup for 13 years!!

Maybe FM needs to reflect how often shocks happen IRL. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surely teams like West Ham, Millwall, Newcastle, Middlesboro reaching the final has to be considered a shock. And at the time of the Chelsea - Boro final, Chelsea really couldn't have been considered one of the big 4.