Is FM too easy?

Yes, that is my opinion. With Manchester United/Chelsea I always win Premier League, and I think it is easier for every seasons which runs.

With team like Stoke etc I have no problems to prevent relegation. I end like 8-14th the first season, and within 5 seasons I often win Premier League. And I am not the special one!

I think it shall be much more difficult to achieving success with you club and obtain trophies. I think 8 of 10 random FM players would have won PL with Manchester United within 2-3 seasons. And many of them aren´t so good. For the most faithful FM players with skills cant be a top international club to get challenges. I want to feel the pressures and expectations from the board and fans for every seasons. Now I have feel secure and I think that I am lead my club much better than the expectations every seasons.

I think the AI have to be better.

you say you think the AI have to be better but you just come here and say you won the league with some of the best teams avaliable for that league?

if you think the game is too easy try taking a team from BSP to the champions league crown. see how good you are then.

The thing is whilst managing with Manchester United and Chelsea, it should be easy to win the league, as they have the strongest squads/team in the game, and thus, it is like playing a game on its easiest difficulty setting.

Try managing in the lower leagues or an obscure nation for a challenge.

I have played with so many clubs in lower divisions and to be honest its not so very difficult to advance in divisions. Last time I was Leeds and advance from League One to Championship the first season. Two seasons in Championship and in my first season in PL I was 10th. Then I quit.

I think its cool to start unemployed and make a huge career and end the save with a CL trophie with my favourite club Barcelona. But thats save game take a lot of time.

But I want often to start with favourite teams like Manchester United and Barcelona and meet challenges in the transfer market and of course in the league. I dont think that SAF/Ancelotti/Guardiola/Benitez have it so easy that I have in my club .

Why do I need to play in the lower divisions to got challenges? I want challenges with top teams and get problems to get trophies. Its not so easy to be SAF/Ancelotti/Guardiola/Benitez, I think all of them need the special skill and luck to win trophies with theirs top club.

I hear what your saying and no I don't think that FM is too easy. Your experiences are from previous versions of FM. Are you saying the same for the FM10 Demo, if you have'nt then try it and see how you find it. There have been many threads recently debating the difficulty of FM and there are arguments both for and against, have a look at them.

You went LEEDS for a challenge in the lower leagues??? I suppose you'll be complaining this year that its too easy to get Notts County promoted?? If you keep picking the strongest team in your division of course you will find the game easy if your good at it. If you want a challenge pick a small club in a smaller league and turn on player attribute masking, don't use in game scouts or editors and stop using the forums to find players. And of course stop reloading when you loose a game..

I think it is too easy when you are big club, or even a fairly big club with a good kitty when the game starts. For example, it was way too easy to turn Tottenham into world beaters in FM 09 because they had a huge budget to start.

For the small clubs though I don't think it is too easy at all. It is tough if you ask me I have never had any success doing the small club to big club thing.

For the last time. I want challenges with clubs like Barcelona, Manchester United, Arsenal etc. Give me that Sigames!

And off course I will have more challenges to keep Burley, Stoke etc away from relegation.

I think the OP is right.

In 09 you can take a league 2 team to the Prem coming so very close to winning all the leagues if not winning them along the way on free transfers alone. All this can be achieved in 3 to 4 years time. Finish in mid table in your first season among the big boys then win the league within the next 1-2 years.

I don't think it's the difficulty in matches that needs tweaking so much as it is the AI's squad building. I'd say 90% of the frees I brought in weren't even being acknowledged by other teams. Not a single team was interested in them til they played for me. Also a lot of the time they have freakishly small squads. Just enough to have 11 players on the field and 5 on the subs bench (lower leagues).

Play outside of England if you want a bit more of a challenge..

I have thoroughly enjoyed playing in Eastern Europe... Especially as Red Star

Dominant in the League, struggle in Europe. fun fun fun

I can see what he is saying. In real life, it's not easy for Liverpool or Arsenal to win the league. On FM it is.

Obviously the lower leagues are going to be more of a challenge, but that shouldn't mean that you're unable to have a challenging game without going to the conference level. Taking Wigan to a Premier League title should be more difficult than it is. It's hard to dispute that.

For the last time. I want challenges with clubs like Barcelona, Manchester United, Arsenal etc. Give me that Sigames!

And off course I will have more challenges to keep Burley, Stoke etc away from relegation.

Its quite easy to give yourself a challenge with these clubs as well you know.

You can limit yourself to buying only English or even worse Welsh You can not buy players all together and rely solely on your youth. The point is there is always a way to make the game more difficult. The only people who tend to come on and say the game is too easy are braggers or cheats.

In FM2010, it seems that the physical condition is more linked to performance on pitch, and reallly you see it.

So I think it's not so easy to win, but what is easy is that the bakroom advice give you all th info to help you in outside management.

I think if the training was more detailed and realistic ( more linked to attributes and match preparation ) it would be more difficult.

Wait for the FM2011.

Its good at it is. please dont make this game harder, its easy becouse its finally easy to understand those sliders.

I dont want this game to become so difficult that i have to sit and watch 90 minutes games in order to win, whats the point of that?

Because it's a management simulation, not an arcade game.

I don't think it's easy to win, and thank God there is challenge in this game !

Its good at it is. please dont make this game harder, its easy becouse its finally easy to understand those sliders.

I dont want this game to become so difficult that i have to sit and watch 90 minutes games in order to win, whats the point of that?

The game should be easier than "real life" though.

In real life it would almost never be possible to take a low rank team and progress to the best league and win CL and so on. It is possible in FM - and that's a good thing.

The difficulty setting is basically your past experience.

If your a experienced user i would say yes in being easy, but new comers and people who are not clued up i would say no. Lower leagues is always a challenge but prem league is a piece of cake, so my suggestion is to those who find it to easy start off in the lower leagues and see how you get on.

That's not a good thing, i want a realistic game, one where a team from League 1 and 2 will not even promote to EPL in the next 10 years, let alone EVER win the EPL. One where you can't win the premiership with Leeds. One which is just like real life. One which despite having ManU, you still have very much trouble competing with Chelsea and Liverpool.

I don't think you'll ever find a challenge managing any Premier League Club or even Championship club if you have played previous versions of Football Manager. I've been playing these games since the late 1990's and now managing a 'top' club just isn't a challenge...much like it wouldn't be too tricky for a top real life manager.

There is a reason why managers stick with top teams when they get there, they know how to manage a top team. Try sticking Alex Ferguson in charge of Ebbsfleet United and see just how difficult it actually would be.

The game is no different, if you have experience of top club management then you'll find it easier. Try dropping down to the conference and see how you cope there.

I often start as a 'top' club and empose self inflicted wage caps and budget caps and even transfer embargo's on the team to see what I can/can't do with a certain team. Nothing like winning the CL with Liverpool with only English players on a transfer budget of £10,000,000 per season

If you want a challenge pick a small club in a smaller league and turn on player attribute masking, don't use in game scouts or editors and stop using the forums to find players.

Don't use player or staff search - use your scouts.

Excellent argument !!

Experience counts a lot.

I don't think you'll ever find a challenge managing any Premier League Club or even Championship club if you have played previous versions of Football Manager. I've been playing these games since the late 1990's and now managing a 'top' club just isn't a challenge...much like it wouldn't be too tricky for a top real life manager.

There is a reason why managers stick with top teams when they get there' date=' they know how to manage a top team. Try sticking Alex Ferguson in charge of Ebbsfleet United and see just how difficult it actually would be.

The game is no different, if you have experience of top club management then you'll find it easier. Try dropping down to the conference and see how you cope there.

I often start as a 'top' club and empose self inflicted wage caps and budget caps and even transfer embargo's on the team to see what I can/can't do with a certain team. Nothing like winning the CL with Liverpool with only English players on a transfer budget of £10,000,000 per season [/quote']

Yes, that is my opinion. With Manchester United/Chelsea I always win Premier League, and I think it is easier for every seasons which runs.

With team like Stoke etc I have no problems to prevent relegation. I end like 8-14th the first season, and within 5 seasons I often win Premier League. And I am not the special one!

I think it shall be much more difficult to achieving success with you club and obtain trophies. I think 8 of 10 random FM players would have won PL with Manchester United within 2-3 seasons. And many of them aren´t so good. For the most faithful FM players with skills cant be a top international club to get challenges. I want to feel the pressures and expectations from the board and fans for every seasons. Now I have feel secure and I think that I am lead my club much better than the expectations every seasons.

I think the AI have to be better.

The Jokers your great................. NOT!

Its quite easy to give yourself a challenge with these clubs as well you know.

You can limit yourself to buying only English or even worse Welsh You can not buy players all together and rely solely on your youth. The point is there is always a way to make the game more difficult. The only people who tend to come on and say the game is too easy are braggers or cheats.

i like this post describes it perfectly.

Try playing as FC United of Manchester. Playing as any big club is a bit pointless really, it takes away the challenge of the game. You've payed hard cash for the disc, only to take the easy route through the game and then complain about it.

There is a case to be answered, plenty of people come onto these forums and are rightly proud of their FM achievements, if not downright boastful, but while it may be possible with skill to win the Champions League with Forest within 6 seasons, for example, is it going to happen? If we're talking about the Premiership in real life, Wigan, Hull and Fulham in particular have been very impressive in moving up the leagues but how long and hard a struggle has it been for them? And what now? There are not many teams around Europe who can push on after getting into the big league and actually win anything, but that happens quite often in FM. Forest are a good example of a 'new' team who not only made that step up but did the impossible, but how many others have followed since? I can only think of Aberdeen, IFK, Verona, Steaua, Red Star, Blackburn, Auxerre, Deportivo, Parma, Villarreal and Wolfsburg as lesser teams who have either won one of the big leagues or done spectacular things in Europe coming from a smaller nation, in the last 30 years. Thats not many! In my opinion the step up in difficulty after getting into the top leagues in FM should be slightly increased to prevent too many improbable 'marches to all-conquering glory!' taking place. Spoiling all the fun a bit maybe, but then the realism will make lesser achievements more rewarding too! "A LEAGUE CUP WIN!!!!! YESSSSS!" After all it took Middlesbrough 110 years or something in reality, and similarly Hibs havent even won a Scottish Cup for over 100 years!

What is it with people saying that FM is too easy?

Have you considered the possibility that you just might be good at the game? That's all it as after all -a game. A game which seasoned players, and in many cases 'beginners' will just understand how to play. For every person who is good at FM, there are just as many who are not good at it.

Just because you win the league with Man United, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter and the like, or you avoid relegation with lesser teams, doesn't mean you would be able to achieve the same level of success with the same teams in real life. FM is a simulation of football management, but it's a far cry from the real deal and is not intended to act as an indication of real life managerial skills.

It's a computer game, there to be enjoyed as such and nothing more.

If Sports Interactive somehow (miraculously, I might add) managed to get FM to replicate true-to-life football management, there would be an awful lot of fists and feet going through an awful lot of monitors/screens.

There is a case to be answered, plenty of people come onto these forums and are rightly proud of their FM achievements, if not downright boastful, but while it may be possible with skill to win the Champions League with Forest within 6 seasons, for example, is it going to happen? If we're talking about the Premiership in real life, Wigan, Hull and Fulham in particular have been very impressive in moving up the leagues but how long and hard a struggle has it been for them? And what now? There are not many teams around Europe who can push on after getting into the big league and actually win anything, but that happens quite often in FM. Forest are a good example of a 'new' team who not only made that step up but did the impossible, but how many others have followed since? I can only think of Aberdeen, IFK, Verona, Steaua, Red Star, Blackburn, Auxerre, Deportivo, Parma, Villarreal and Wolfsburg as lesser teams who have either won one of the big leagues or done spectacular things in Europe coming from a smaller nation, in the last 30 years. Thats not many! In my opinion the step up in difficulty after getting into the top leagues in FM should be slightly increased to prevent too many improbable 'marches to all-conquering glory!' taking place. Spoiling all the fun a bit maybe, but then the realism will make lesser achievements more rewarding too! "A LEAGUE CUP WIN!!!!! YESSSSS!" After all it took Middlesbrough 110 years or something in reality, and similarly Hibs havent even won a Scottish Cup for over 100 years!

I hear what your saying. I find the difflculty pretty good. But don't forget that the main aim of SI is to shift as many copies of FM from the shelves, period. Yes as we can see from the forums the staff at SI really want to create a great game for us players and it seems that they take great pride and privilege in producing a great game and they come on these forums as much as possible to help us and to make our experience of FM as good as possible. If 99% of people thought it was too easy then SI would make it harder and vise versa.

But at the minute some think its too easy and some to hard and some about right. Also SI want to cater for the masses, and the people on the SI forums are the minority in terms of the total playing population but probably the most 'hard core' fans (sounds cheesey I know!) I'm not saying that there are not massive fans out there but I would assume that for many people to come on these forums and speak at length as we do we are again probably (not totally) the better players mainly from our experience. But the majority of FM players maybe are casual players and want a game that is do able. If the success levels were the same as real life then FM would not sell as much copies as they currenly do because people would not enjoy it as much.

So as there is and has been so much debate recenlty about this subject then maybe a difficulty setting could be brought in the future! Not sure how this would work mind. But for me at the minute, it is just fine.

Yeah, I do agree about catering to the masses. You can't make the game too hard. I agree with the points the OP made, but I'm not about to jump on the "make the game harder" bandwagon. I think a difficulty setting is definitely an option that could be (and probably is being) looked at.

I dont think it`s realistic when I have to play with lower teams to get challenges!!!

But also with lower teams I do it much better than the expectations. I am 100% sure that I am not alone with those thoughts!

What about to introduce levels like in FIFA? Regular, Ameteur, Top Player etc?

Yes, that is my opinion. With Manchester United/Chelsea I always win Premier League, and I think it is easier for every seasons which runs.

With team like Stoke etc I have no problems to prevent relegation. I end like 8-14th the first season, and within 5 seasons I often win Premier League. And I am not the special one!

I think it shall be much more difficult to achieving success with you club and obtain trophies. I think 8 of 10 random FM players would have won PL with Manchester United within 2-3 seasons. And many of them aren´t so good. For the most faithful FM players with skills cant be a top international club to get challenges. I want to feel the pressures and expectations from the board and fans for every seasons. Now I have feel secure and I think that I am lead my club much better than the expectations every seasons.

I think the AI have to be better.

In all fairness, I guess most people just want to be able to achieve some success over a while. Only few people will find it rewarding to just keep Stoke up for 3 years in a row with no chances of anything better (even though that would irl indeed be a great achievement already).

I think it's just the nature of football management games that they NEED to be easier than reality in order to be fun to many of their users.

I dont think it`s realistic when I have to play with lower teams to get challenges!!!

But also with lower teams I do it much better than the expectations. I am 100% sure that I am not alone with those thoughts!

What about to introduce levels like in FIFA? Regular, Ameteur, Top Player etc?

if football manager had a level setting it will ruin the game i think. footballs about the right team, tactics, staff and other things not level settings. some people said they find it to hard aswell.

Yes, that is my opinion. With Manchester United/Chelsea I always win Premier League, and I think it is easier for every seasons which runs.

With team like Stoke etc I have no problems to prevent relegation. I end like 8-14th the first season, and within 5 seasons I often win Premier League. And I am not the special one!

I think it shall be much more difficult to achieving success with you club and obtain trophies. I think 8 of 10 random FM players would have won PL with Manchester United within 2-3 seasons. And many of them aren´t so good. For the most faithful FM players with skills cant be a top international club to get challenges. I want to feel the pressures and expectations from the board and fans for every seasons. Now I have feel secure and I think that I am lead my club much better than the expectations every seasons.

I think the AI have to be better.

I AGREE! I started a tread up the other day about this, take a look...

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=153077

I dont think it`s realistic when I have to play with lower teams to get challenges!!!

But also with lower teams I do it much better than the expectations. I am 100% sure that I am not alone with those thoughts!

What about to introduce levels like in FIFA? Regular, Ameteur, Top Player etc?

This is something SI are really wary of for some reason because they do by no means want to influence their ME in order to achieve a certain result (which ironically they were often accused of).

Yet I could very well imagine a solution with only other factors being used that in the end do achieve something similar. But when I proposed that it got rejected as well, see http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=52255

Like 3 settings, normal, easy, hard, with normal being as it is now.

And then hard (just examples/ideas):

- board ambition +1

- board patience -1

- AI transfer/player wage demands + 10 percent

- AI transfer bids -10 percent

- average attendance - 5 percent

- club reputation (as soon as you get there) - 5 percent

and maybe a few more similar points which would it make harder to accumulate a great squad and to please the board. On easy settings would be vice versa.

I don't think it would harm the integrity of the game at all. The core would just work as it should while very few settings around it can easily create different difficulty settings

This is something SI are really wary of for some reason because they do by no means want to influence their ME in order to achieve a certain result (which ironically they were often accused of).

Yet I could very well imagine a solution with only other factors being used that in the end do achieve something similar. But when I proposed that it got rejected as well, see http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=52255

Like 3 settings, normal, easy, hard, with normal being as it is now.

And then hard (just examples/ideas):

- board ambition +1

- board patience -1

- AI transfer/player wage demands + 10 percent

- AI transfer bids -10 percent

- average attendance - 5 percent

- club reputation (as soon as you get there) - 5 percent

and maybe a few more similar points which would it make harder to accumulate a great squad and to please the board. On easy settings would be vice versa.

I don't think it would harm the integrity of the game at all. The core would just work as it should while very few settings around it can easily create different difficulty settings

you could put the club rep up on editor or give the club more money, make your chairmen nice its the same thing mostly as a level setting

You have tools like FMRTE and Genie to make it easy,and you have starting rep which is basically like a difficulty level.

I agree that it is easy, especially with a lower team, I'm almost certain I'll get promoted with Burton in the 1st year & even challange the title again in league 1 the next.

My theory behind it though is we have the luxury of looking at stats & pretty much every player we bring into the squad is a certain improvement as where managers in real life dont have that luxury. Thats why sometimes is appears unrealistic.

Any thoughts on that?

they could make the player attributes masking better so its harder to see players

Nice idea, I approve if the scout give us better and detailed reports.

Thanks.

they could make the player attributes masking better so its harder to see players

What is it with people saying that FM is too easy?

Have you considered the possibility that you just might be good at the game? That's all it as after all -a game. A game which seasoned players, and in many cases 'beginners' will just understand how to play. For every person who is good at FM, there are just as many who are not good at it.

Just because you win the league with Man United, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter and the like, or you avoid relegation with lesser teams, doesn't mean you would be able to achieve the same level of success with the same teams in real life. FM is a simulation of football management, but it's a far cry from the real deal and is not intended to act as an indication of real life managerial skills.

It's a computer game, there to be enjoyed as such and nothing more.

If Sports Interactive somehow (miraculously, I might add) managed to get FM to replicate true-to-life football management, there would be an awful lot of fists and feet going through an awful lot of monitors/screens.

Totally agree with this. If the game was to become too difficult I'm guessing only the minority would be successful and not enjoy it, which would result in a problem for SI in selling copies. They have to cater for the masses not the minority.

A good option if your finding the game too easy would be to play online against other human players in control of big clubs, this provides a good challenge.

Nice idea, I approve if the scout give us better and detailed reports.

Thanks.

even with some world class known player aswell like ronaldo you might not lots about him but you might not now if he can let say jump. just an idea.

you could put the club rep up on editor or give the club more money, make your chairmen nice its the same thing mostly as a level setting

As long as you don't change clubs only.

This is something SI are really wary of for some reason because they do by no means want to influence their ME in order to achieve a certain result (which ironically they were often accused of).

Yet I could very well imagine a solution with only other factors being used that in the end do achieve something similar. But when I proposed that it got rejected as well, see http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=52255

Like 3 settings, normal, easy, hard, with normal being as it is now.

And then hard (just examples/ideas):

- board ambition +1

- board patience -1

- AI transfer/player wage demands + 10 percent

- AI transfer bids -10 percent

- average attendance - 5 percent

- club reputation (as soon as you get there) - 5 percent

and maybe a few more similar points which would it make harder to accumulate a great squad and to please the board. On easy settings would be vice versa.

I don't think it would harm the integrity of the game at all. The core would just work as it should while very few settings around it can easily create different difficulty settings

I AGREE. But that that will not make the game more realistic. But I think you ideas is good, and it is a option.

My thoughts:

- The AI is too bad to improve they own wonderkids.

- The wonderkids is too easy to get.

- The AI dosen´t use/buy enough wonderkids.

Every player in FM know how important that is, but not the AI. (I think too many 19-20 years old players do it too well in the top division)

- It is too easy to make money,even without making player sales.

- The AI has to make smarter transfers.

- The AI has to be better to develop their own players.

I hope I sometimes will be sacked in FM. I cant remember last time.

they could make the player attributes masking better so its harder to see players

Totally agree! Better scout reports..

- The AI is too bad to improve they own wonderkids.

- The wonderkids is too easy to get.

- The AI dosen´t use/buy enough wonderkids.

- The AI has to make smarter transfers.

- The AI has to be better to develop their own players.

You are talking about FM09, right?

Most of these have been worked on for FM10, so we can hope for improvement here

Totally agree with this. If the game was to become too difficult I'm guessing only the minority would be successful and not enjoy it, which would result in a problem for SI in selling copies. They have to cater for the masses not the minority. A good option if your finding the game too easy would be to play online against other human players in control of big clubs, this provides a good challenge.

I like very much to play against human people. I tried FM live at the start, and I think it was too bad.

I like very much to play against human people. I tried FM live at the start, and I think it was too bad.

That's FM Live though, what about playing just the normal FM online if you want more of a challenge?

You are talking about FM09, right?

Most of these have been worked on for FM10, so we can hope for improvement here

Yeah, but I feel much of the same in FM10 demo. But I think it was a quite harder to get big wonderkids like Balotelli. But everyone knows if you get Balotelli for 50 it is a very good investment. He would be one of the best players in the game in 10 years.

If 1/4 wonderkids which are in potential abillity 8,9,10 will fail with theirs way to be a top player. Not every wonderkid will be a international top player.

If for example Bolotelli has PA 10 in the game, and in 25% of the new game he will fall down to 7 or 8 or something.

That's FM Live though, what about playing just the normal FM online if you want more of a challenge?

But then I have to have friends which can play at the same time as me. I think it`s also a bit to complicated with hamachi etc on mac. I have tried, but I think it was to difficult.

But a smart AI is to preferable.

I believe this case is taken out of context, as almost ALL games are easy these days, not just FM.

You're asking for increased Artificial Intelligence, but in the end that particular goal appears largely unachievable by almost all developers in every genre. The standard form of difficulty setting in the vast majority of games is to give whatever the player is up against an advantage - e.g in an RTS this would be higher resources, an FPS more damage output/absorbtion and so on. Developers tend to rely on artificial bonuses to increase the difficulty of your opponent rather than actually coding your opponent to be smarter in any actual sense.

Ultimately what this boils down to is that if you can beat any game on normal you can probably beat it on hard or further because it's essentially the same game in the end and your opponents will act in the same way, at best in a nearly identical way.

The very term AI in games seems misleading, as actual intelligence is so rarely present. That is, unless you consider a calculator intelligent. Until TRUE artificial intelligence is incorporated in to games then the only way you can create a serious challenge for yourself is by either choosing to limit your own potential effectiveness or playing online with others of a similar skill - for the foreseeable future, the challenge you seek is out of the reach of developers unfortunately.