This game blows...

it is official for me. It blows. I am sure I will continue to be a glutton for punishment and keep playing b/c there are so many good things about it, but the ME is either just too hard or cheats making it impossible to play normal setups without 5 or 6 arrows going up the wazzoo.

What I mean by play is "enjoy." Sure, you can still play a 442 and lose your mind all nite. That would be easy to accomplish.

And, you know that is the general consensus out there. Take a look at the tactics threads. I mean, how else can you explain the amount of hits tactics like Kimz's get (no offense Kimz b/c it is terrific) and how empty threads like wwfan's (a truly great thread that got me addicted to this game) have become.

It is simple: the ME is just not fun unless you exploit it. It either cheats (i have no clue and this is not meant to be a debate on that) or it is just too damn difficult.

At the very least, the ME has basically stopped giving you decent indicators of things that have changed with the AI.

Verdict: The game is not fun anymore unless you exploit it.

I have about a million examples, but this one put me over the edge.

I did everything right

I am Yeovil. I played a 433 counter w/ 2 DMCs, they played a 442 with sarrows. I was told to play deep and I did. I knew they would press, I was right and I countered. I marked their MCs out of the game with my DMCs.

So, I have a dream start. Two long passes in the rain that get converted into goals. Then, I even manage to head in a corner.

Now, I am watching to see if the ME tells me or shows me that they change anything. It does not. They hit back.

The only change I make, being that it is the 39th minute, is that I move time wasting up 3 clicks. Otherwise, I am doing EXACTLY what I want to do. Defend and play on the counter. It is working. It makes utter and perfect sense that you would want to waste some time Away and get out of the half with a 3-1 lead. Besides, it is really not very different from what I was trying to do overall anyway.

Right.

As you can see, two more goals tie it. How? The first one is a long pass over my DCs. Interesting b/c MY DLINE IS DEEP. Thank you ME, b/c that is just so realistic. Outstanding. Amazingly, two more deep balls over my deep DCs don't get converted. I am wondering if maybe I should position them in the stands behind my goal. But more angry b/c earlier, they were certainly playing deep. So, wtf happened? Nothing. The ME flaked. Period.

They move to long farrow 442 for the 2nd half. I figure this is surely the death of me and the WWSM disc b/c it is going in the garbage if they score even once. No one even gets a chance. The best part? I STILL NEVER CHANGED WHAT I WAS DOING.

Why? BECAUSE I MADE ALL THE RIGHT PLAYS.

The ME stinks. Just terrible. You can deny it all you want. Try playing a 433 or 442 with a lower level team for a while. If you have, you know what I mean. At some point, you will invariably look up from your computer and wonder if you should throw it out the window.

This game, like any other, is supposed to be fun. When you make the right decisions and routinely come up short, it is not fun. It is lame. And, it happens so often that playing a 442 or 433 is simply not worth the time or effort.

Back to the exploits. Very, very, very disappointed.

What is ME?

Originally posted by SWaRFeGa:

What is ME?

My guess is ..match engine?

Originally posted by Lee Scott 23:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SWaRFeGa:

What is ME?

My guess is ..match engine? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Match Engine.

Play as Rangers or Celtic in the Scottish League. The game suddenly becomes fun when the only challenge is one other team.

That's if you like winning all the time anyway.

Originally posted by JAStewart:

Play as Rangers or Celtic in the Scottish League. The game suddenly becomes fun when the only challenge is one other team.

That's if you like winning all the time anyway.

To be clear, I am not a newbie. I know the game and the tactics extremely well.

I don't like winning all time and do not expect to. I do expect to win games like this one when I go up 3-0 whether I am away or home. Pretty much almost always.

I also expect to win most games I go up 2-0, and that is truly a regular adventure. All the AI needs to do is move to long farrows and they come back.

I'm sure the match engine is fine, but the 2D representation of it is laughably incompetent.

I wouldn't have gone more time wasting that early!

These things happen IMO.

What you are saying is completely untrue. I have had a really successful career on FM without any barmy arrows and without any exploitation of the match engine. I have played with straight-forward variations of the 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 throughout my career.

You do not need to change formation to be able to counter the opposition for a starter. I never change my opposition, however I might change my marking strategy to cope with different formations.

It is clear to me that you need to WATCH what the opposition is doing in certain games in extended highlights and really analyse where things are going wrong. It could be a plethora of different things.

Some examples:

Team gelling, new formation, unhappy players, poor half time team talk, poor squad, unfit players, are your players match fit, how long have they been playing for the club, having you made a lot of new signings, is your squad an older or younger squad, what is there perosnality type etc. etc. etc.

On the tactical side, to me it sounds as though you are not getting it right.

I would suggest to you an easy technique to deal with the tactical side of things, as follows. Read the scout reports - they give you huge indications as to how the opposition will play. Then, for further clues, look at the opposition manager - this will tell you all you need to know about his usual style of play.

Personally, I think if you are playing at home you don't want to play defensively and counter. It doesn't make sense. You ought to be attacking them or at least playing a balanced tactic if you want to keep things tighter against a superior side. Playing too deep and sitting back at home plays right into the hands of the opposition. They will probably be playing a defensive, possession-based tactic, with a slow build up. They will just keep the ball and create one or two (or three in this case) clear chances. Yes, you were told to play deeper, but not so deep that you unlink it from your overall mentality.

This is my opinion. If I was playing against Yeovil, I would have attacked from the off, played a d-line slightly lower than my mentality. When I was 3-0 up, I wouldn't have changed anything. I would have waiting to see a change in their play - if there is nothing wrong, then I don't touch anything. In the second-half, I would have considered moving to a more balanced tactic, perhaps lowering the d-line just below normal and moving the time-wasting up a few notches. The 4-4-2 long arrows would mean that it is time to go deeper, more compact and more defensive. Save ultra-defensive, deep and time wasting for the 4-2-4.

Hope this helps.

I have won 3 lower league titles with St. Albans City and Derry City, 1 promotion with Kaiserslauten and 1 African Nations Cup with Ghana. All in all, this has been one of my most enjoyable saves on FM games.

You say you are making the right decisions but I would say that you are not.

C.

Originally posted by crouchaldinho:

What you are saying is completely untrue. I have had a really successful career on FM without any barmy arrows and without any exploitation of the match engine. I have played with straight-forward variations of the 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 throughout my career.

You do not need to change formation to be able to counter the opposition for a starter. I never change my opposition, however I might change my marking strategy to cope with different formations.

It is clear to me that you need to WATCH what the opposition is doing in certain games in extended highlights and really analyse where things are going wrong. It could be a plethora of different things.

Some examples:

Team gelling, new formation, unhappy players, poor half time team talk, poor squad, unfit players, are your players match fit, how long have they been playing for the club, having you made a lot of new signings, is your squad an older or younger squad, what is there perosnality type etc. etc. etc.

On the tactical side, to me it sounds as though you are not getting it right.

I would suggest to you an easy technique to deal with the tactical side of things, as follows. Read the scout reports - they give you huge indications as to how the opposition will play. Then, for further clues, look at the opposition manager - this will tell you all you need to know about his usual style of play.

Personally, I think if you are playing at home you don't want to play defensively and counter. It doesn't make sense. You ought to be attacking them or at least playing a balanced tactic if you want to keep things tighter against a superior side. Playing too deep and sitting back at home plays right into the hands of the opposition. They will probably be playing a defensive, possession-based tactic, with a slow build up. They will just keep the ball and create one or two (or three in this case) clear chances. Yes, you were told to play deeper, but not so deep that you unlink it from your overall mentality.

This is my opinion. If I was playing against Yeovil, I would have attacked from the off, played a d-line slightly lower than my mentality. When I was 3-0 up, I wouldn't have changed anything. I would have waiting to see a change in their play - if there is nothing wrong, then I don't touch anything. In the second-half, I would have considered moving to a more balanced tactic, perhaps lowering the d-line just below normal and moving the time-wasting up a few notches. The 4-4-2 long arrows would mean that it is time to go deeper, more compact and more defensive. Save ultra-defensive, deep and time wasting for the 4-2-4.

Hope this helps.

I have won 3 lower league titles with St. Albans City and Derry City, 1 promotion with Kaiserslauten and 1 African Nations Cup with Ghana. All in all, this has been one of my most enjoyable saves on FM games.

You say you are making the right decisions but I would say that you are not.

C.

I'm sorry, I have just noticed that you said you were playing as Yeovil! That's the trouble with having a beer in the afternoon!

I still maintain what I said. You played too deep and too defensively. I would probably have started off with a balanced formation, with d-line a few notches deeper than normal. I would have stuck with this until they went 4-4-2 and then I would have gone slightly more defensive, narrow and added the time-wasting.

C.

Originally posted by crouchaldinho:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crouchaldinho:

What you are saying is completely untrue. I have had a really successful career on FM without any barmy arrows and without any exploitation of the match engine. I have played with straight-forward variations of the 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 throughout my career.

You do not need to change formation to be able to counter the opposition for a starter. I never change my opposition, however I might change my marking strategy to cope with different formations.

It is clear to me that you need to WATCH what the opposition is doing in certain games in extended highlights and really analyse where things are going wrong. It could be a plethora of different things.

Some examples:

Team gelling, new formation, unhappy players, poor half time team talk, poor squad, unfit players, are your players match fit, how long have they been playing for the club, having you made a lot of new signings, is your squad an older or younger squad, what is there perosnality type etc. etc. etc.

On the tactical side, to me it sounds as though you are not getting it right.

I would suggest to you an easy technique to deal with the tactical side of things, as follows. Read the scout reports - they give you huge indications as to how the opposition will play. Then, for further clues, look at the opposition manager - this will tell you all you need to know about his usual style of play.

Personally, I think if you are playing at home you don't want to play defensively and counter. It doesn't make sense. You ought to be attacking them or at least playing a balanced tactic if you want to keep things tighter against a superior side. Playing too deep and sitting back at home plays right into the hands of the opposition. They will probably be playing a defensive, possession-based tactic, with a slow build up. They will just keep the ball and create one or two (or three in this case) clear chances. Yes, you were told to play deeper, but not so deep that you unlink it from your overall mentality.

This is my opinion. If I was playing against Yeovil, I would have attacked from the off, played a d-line slightly lower than my mentality. When I was 3-0 up, I wouldn't have changed anything. I would have waiting to see a change in their play - if there is nothing wrong, then I don't touch anything. In the second-half, I would have considered moving to a more balanced tactic, perhaps lowering the d-line just below normal and moving the time-wasting up a few notches. The 4-4-2 long arrows would mean that it is time to go deeper, more compact and more defensive. Save ultra-defensive, deep and time wasting for the 4-2-4.

Hope this helps.

I have won 3 lower league titles with St. Albans City and Derry City, 1 promotion with Kaiserslauten and 1 African Nations Cup with Ghana. All in all, this has been one of my most enjoyable saves on FM games.

You say you are making the right decisions but I would say that you are not.

C.

I'm sorry, I have just noticed that you said you were playing as Yeovil! That's the trouble with having a beer in the afternoon!

I still maintain what I said. You played too deep and too defensively. I would probably have started off with a balanced formation, with d-line a few notches deeper than normal. I would have stuck with this until they went 4-4-2 and then I would have gone slightly more defensive, narrow and added the time-wasting.

C. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe I wasn't clear. I am overall doing fine with Yeovil. I am just sick of games like this. Chances are I will eventually win the L1 title using a 442 and 433 set.

I played a 433 Counter in this match btw. Not too defensive. I just positioned my dline deep b/c their strikers are quick. I just love that they got behind them anyway. Comical.

One point is that it is amazingly hard to hold a lead on the road. Just silly.

Also, another thing I notice is that if you "wish luck," you are almost certain to wind up with a draw or a loss late.

BTW, I was away.

Believe me Crouch, I have read wwfan's threads backwards and forwards. Up and down. I get it.

That is why I had them 3-0. Two great thru balls over the top to my loan striker, and MC off their set piece that buried them. It is exactly what I wanted to do.

I am just sick of not being able to stop those comebacks. It just happens too often. I could just see it coming. How often do teams come back from 3-0 or 2-0 down? Not often.

If I tighten up even more, they score. If I stay the same, they score. If I try to attack, they score.

Here I am playing a counter, they are pressing like mad, and all of sudden, they can also play great D and none of my long balls get thru? Really? I don't think so.

Sirdez, unquestionably, the 2d is still pathetic.

Its your tactics.

Originally posted by therubberducky27:

Its your tactics.

Take a bath.

Originally posted by Rio_V:

Maybe I wasn't clear. I am overall doing fine with Yeovil. I am just sick of games like this. Chances are I will eventually win the L1 title using a 442 and 433 set.

Rio_V - I think that perhaps one of the main issues here could be team gelling. I notice that my teams are inconsistent and more prone to losing a lead when they haven't gelled.

Also, I would be interested to know what your half time team talk is. That could be one of the reasons that you failed in the second half.

Sometimes you have to be happy with a point on the road. Generally, if your squad is strong and you keep things consistent, you will get the right results when you make the right decisions.

I played a 433 Counter in this match btw. Not too defensive. I just positioned my dline deep b/c their strikers are quick. I just love that they got behind them anyway. Comical.

Look back at the 2d replays. Could it be that the strikers got behind them for a different reason?

My guess is that you played too deep and that the opposition played a possession based tactic and played just in front of your defenders. I imagine that one of your defenders probably got caught out of position closing down and that is how the opposition striker got behind them. It happens all of the time when you play too deep and it does look like the attackers are getting behind your strikers. Really though, what is happening is that you are giving up too much ground in your half.

One point is that it is amazingly hard to hold a lead on the road. Just silly.

I would disagree with this. Again though, I would say that team gelling, match fitness and tactical choices in particular can have a huge impact upon the quality of your performances and your results. I have had experiences when I have played the most perfect tactic and not won because I played a few players who were not match fit and they made mistakes. Also, when my side are gelling, I often give away leads. I also find that my side do not adapt well to tactical changes when they are in the process of gelling. At this early stage, I generally keep my approach simple and do not make many changes. I try to keep things consistent to get through this phase.

What media comments did you give before the game? Sometimes I have found that putting too much pressure on the side can result in a crap and awful performance.

Also, another thing I notice is that if you "wish luck," you are almost certain to wind up with a draw or a loss late.

I only use 'wish luck' for games I don't think I can win in the first place, i.e. where draw is the best I think I can get. If I draw then that is a good result. For games you think you can win, use 'you can win' or 'the result will come' when big favourites. Often, I come away with a result. With 'wish luck' the side seem to grow with confidence during the game. This is my interpretation anyway.

I am just sick of not being able to stop those comebacks. It just happens too often. I could just see it coming. How often do teams come back from 3-0 or 2-0 down? Not often.

It happens very often actually. Some teams just can't keep a lead.

If this is happening regularly then you are making mistakes because it only happens to me once in a blue moon and I can usually see why it has happened. Look for the clues.

Did any of your players get low scores, i.e. 5s? Why did they score so low? Was it their mistake that caused the goal? If it was their mistake then why did they do it? Was it because you told them to or was it because they were unconfident or unfit? Ask yourself these questions.

Another thing, does your team have high determination and mental attributes. Younger sides will be more fragile. Are you in need of a good leader?

What kind of side are you in your game? Are Yeovil a top side in the division expected to win promotion? If so, perhaps you ought to be playing a more attacking tactic, even away from home. Perhaps something more balanced. I don't know. But playing too deep and defensively against opposition you should beat is not productive. You will most likely give up too much space in your half of the pitch, you defenders will close, and their strikers will get in behind them - just like it happened against Luton with your team. Your best bet is to play compact and reduce space.

Just a few tips. I know it can be frustrating. I went through the same thing one season when I couldn't buy a win away from home for 5 games. I looked and looked and I couldn't see anything. Then finally I realised I was playing too deep and letting the opposition carve out chances. Meanwhile, I wasn't creating clear cut chances at the other end.

I really think that these results are avoidable. Obviously, it is going to happen occasionally because that is football! But I would suggest that if this is happening all of the time, you are doing something wrong.

Just my opinion. I hope you get your love of FM08 back soon because it is a truly brilliant game.

C.

Sorry, but I don't understand why these threads keep popping up. Perhaps it makes people feel better getting it out, perhaps the internet is just full of crazies.

How many people do well on FM? Tons.

And I don't have arrows going everywhere. I stick with a 442 with varying arrows on the wings, with a 4-3-3 later in the season, again with arrows only on the FL and FR positions.

Sometimes I have good seasons, mid-season slumps, bad starts, but ultimately I guage my best players and how best to play them and get past slumps.

You can't expect to win every game. The only time you can do that is by exploiting match engine weaknesses. If you want a game where you win every match because you think you've done everything right, perhaps a PS3 or an X-Box would be a wise investment.

Deep defensive line? How deep? 0 clicks or 5 clicks? That can make a big difference.

Originally posted by crouchaldinho:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rio_V:

Maybe I wasn't clear. I am overall doing fine with Yeovil. I am just sick of games like this. Chances are I will eventually win the L1 title using a 442 and 433 set.

Rio_V - I think that perhaps one of the main issues here could be team gelling. I notice that my teams are inconsistent and more prone to losing a lead when they haven't gelled.

Also, I would be interested to know what your half time team talk is. That could be one of the reasons that you failed in the second half.

Sometimes you have to be happy with a point on the road. Generally, if your squad is strong and you keep things consistent, you will get the right results when you make the right decisions.

I played a 433 Counter in this match btw. Not too defensive. I just positioned my dline deep b/c their strikers are quick. I just love that they got behind them anyway. Comical.

Look back at the 2d replays. Could it be that the strikers got behind them for a different reason?

My guess is that you played too deep and that the opposition played a possession based tactic and played just in front of your defenders. I imagine that one of your defenders probably got caught out of position closing down and that is how the opposition striker got behind them. It happens all of the time when you play too deep and it does look like the attackers are getting behind your strikers. Really though, what is happening is that you are giving up too much ground in your half.

One point is that it is amazingly hard to hold a lead on the road. Just silly.

I would disagree with this. Again though, I would say that team gelling, match fitness and tactical choices in particular can have a huge impact upon the quality of your performances and your results. I have had experiences when I have played the most perfect tactic and not won because I played a few players who were not match fit and they made mistakes. Also, when my side are gelling, I often give away leads. I also find that my side do not adapt well to tactical changes when they are in the process of gelling. At this early stage, I generally keep my approach simple and do not make many changes. I try to keep things consistent to get through this phase.

What media comments did you give before the game? Sometimes I have found that putting too much pressure on the side can result in a crap and awful performance.

Also, another thing I notice is that if you "wish luck," you are almost certain to wind up with a draw or a loss late.

I only use 'wish luck' for games I don't think I can win in the first place, i.e. where draw is the best I think I can get. If I draw then that is a good result. For games you think you can win, use 'you can win' or 'the result will come' when big favourites. Often, I come away with a result. With 'wish luck' the side seem to grow with confidence during the game. This is my interpretation anyway.

I am just sick of not being able to stop those comebacks. It just happens too often. I could just see it coming. How often do teams come back from 3-0 or 2-0 down? Not often.

It happens very often actually. Some teams just can't keep a lead.

If this is happening regularly then you are making mistakes because it only happens to me once in a blue moon and I can usually see why it has happened. Look for the clues.

Did any of your players get low scores, i.e. 5s? Why did they score so low? Was it their mistake that caused the goal? If it was their mistake then why did they do it? Was it because you told them to or was it because they were unconfident or unfit? Ask yourself these questions.

Another thing, does your team have high determination and mental attributes. Younger sides will be more fragile. Are you in need of a good leader?

What kind of side are you in your game? Are Yeovil a top side in the division expected to win promotion? If so, perhaps you ought to be playing a more attacking tactic, even away from home. Perhaps something more balanced. I don't know. But playing too deep and defensively against opposition you should beat is not productive. You will most likely give up too much space in your half of the pitch, you defenders will close, and their strikers will get in behind them - just like it happened against Luton with your team. Your best bet is to play compact and reduce space.

Just a few tips. I know it can be frustrating. I went through the same thing one season when I couldn't buy a win away from home for 5 games. I looked and looked and I couldn't see anything. Then finally I realised I was playing too deep and letting the opposition carve out chances. Meanwhile, I wasn't creating clear cut chances at the other end.

I really think that these results are avoidable. Obviously, it is going to happen occasionally because that is football! But I would suggest that if this is happening all of the time, you are doing something wrong.

Just my opinion. I hope you get your love of FM08 back soon because it is a truly brilliant game.

C. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I must say thank you, Crouch. That was helpful and on point. And, I appreciate that you actually took the time.

The reason I posted this is that I was totally frustrated and do love this game. I play it entirely too often. It may have lacked some constructiveness b/c I was so furious which is why I put it here and not the tactics forum.

I have since won a few I should not have. Go figure.

I do have some real criticisms of the ME, but overall this is unquestionably my fav game for quite some time starting with '07. Eventually, I will post some thoughts in wwfan's thread or one of my own. Maybe that will get a good discussion going. See you there.

Cheers.

I just get guilty of being lazy and wanting to get on with the game, and so if you set one thing off perfect, it can ruin your whole game plan, i have found