Will Negotiations EVER Be Fixed? - 2010 Demo

Apologies if this there is another thread for this but I can't believe this problem still exists.

I started up the demo the other night, and as I like to not worry too much about learning random players on a second division team while trying to adjust to the new features in the game, I choose to take charge at Manchester United. A week into pre-season training Carrick tears his hamstring and is going to be out for a couple months. As I was already looking at central midfield as a weaker area, I feel I need to strengthen and decide to go in for Danielle De Rossi (wish it'd happen in reality too). So after scouting him and receiving a report that it'll take around 33m (this and all other subsequent numbers are approximate) to secure a deal I go in with a cash offer of about 25m to see what the response would be. Roma replies asking for a deal worth 42m. Too high but a good starting point. I submit a new offer valued around 32m but with some of the money deferred. Roma comes back and now they want 48m!!. Bad memories of past versions of this game flash before my eyes so I go with a straight cash bid of 32m to see what happens. Roma now will be willing to sell for 38m. Okay, trying once again I put in a bid valued at 36m with about a third of it spread across 18 months. The answer? Roma now wants 52m. Blinding lights of rage flash before my eyes (not really) and I shut down the game.

Why SI? Why can't you take the time to fix this problem? Does no one there understand the basic concepts behind negotiation? I don't believe this would be the case so why does this problem persist EVERY YEAR??? It can not be that complicated a fix. Why is so much time spend on laboriously detailed media interaction yet one of the main tenets of the game (transfers) is partially broken every year.

In the classic parlance, SORT IT OUT SI!

wrong forum m8 http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=114

right one above

Don't listen to him - this isn't a "Technical Issue" as has been linked to.

This is a fine venue for your complaint. If you have save-games before, during, and after your negotiation process, you might have some luck cross-posting to the Bugs Forum, but without those saves, this is the right place.

wrong forum m8 http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=114

right one above

Thanks but I don't see how this is a bug. I don't believe it's a technical issue but rather feedback on the demo. I can post this in that thread as well, but I think it's a major issue and don't want it to get lost amongst the trivial issues in that thread. This has been my experience for the last five years of the game.

If an SI mod wants to respond to and move the thread then by all means, otherwise I think it belongs in this forum.

Yes i too am upset that teams won't give up their key players for pennies.

Yes i too am upset that teams won't give up their key players for pennies.

Did you even read what I wrote? Because your response is in no way related to my complaint.

Yes i too am upset that teams won't give up their key players for pennies.

Don't be so obtuse!

I think it, or would like to think there is indeed logic behind their negotiations of the AI but as there is not always an obvious reason for the stupid money they may ask it appears to be random.

It may help if there was actual negotiations taking place such as the AI team set out that they are unlikely to want to sell him as his contract has long to go, is carrying the team and they would find it very hard to part with him unless they were offered such and such an amount. Which maybe to warn you off if they give a high fee but you may proceed to bid a fair offer and they may come back with a slightly different stance since you appear serious and they see that negotiating a decent price may be the best scenario or outcome for all parties concerned.

More to my annoyance is the fact the AI know the right amount to bid and get very good players for under their value etc... like they have the advantage of knowing what the selling club want, need and would accept at any given time.

It's not a technical issue, you are messing Roma about! They are giving you a price, you are teasing them, they tease you back! Simples! Either put up or shut up and don't get your player! Haha!

I agree with the op. This used to always anger me in the past games. Whenever trying to negotiate, the club would 9 times out of 10 raise their price instead of lowering it, slightly.

Yes i too am upset that teams won't give up their key players for pennies.

That is a different arguement. The OP was frustrated about how the negotiations are and have been in FM. He is not saying oh players x is 20 years old and valued at £5m but they want £30m this is not realistic - this is not what the OP is saying.

Its like batering - if you go to (this is maybe a bad example!) a car boot sale and you want product Y. You ask how much it is and they say make me an offer. You say £50 and they say £100. You say ok £75 and they say £120! They have gone above what they originally negotiated on. This would not make sense and would not happen! This is what the OP is referring to.

I agree OP the fact that The AI clubs want a price and when you try and negotiate they then come back with a bigger asking price than the original!!! This does not make sense!

I am also not convinced that this is necessarily a bug as you have not met their valuation in cash terms by spreading payments in your second and third offers. I suspect that you would have got him for 33-34M if you had bid that for cash. You are trying to spread the payments and consequently they want more than they would accept in straight cash terms.

I got Fabregas for 60 mil as Man City.They asked for 80 but i offered 60 mil non-negotiable and they accepted.Try offering 36 non negotiable and see what happens.

I am also not convinced that this is necessarily a bug as you have not met their valuation in cash terms by spreading payments in your second and third offers. I suspect that you would have got him for 33-34M if you had bid that for cash. You are trying to spread the payments and consequently they want more than they would accept in straight cash terms.

Yeah a longer payment method would result in a larger price than a short term payment so I agree with FrazT. I cannot speak for The FM10 demo because I have not bought many players but in recent FM's it seemed that it was hard to buy players in monthly installments and AI clubs would often want straight out. But in retern the AI clubs would always bid for my players in monthly installments and never straight out but I guess this reflects real life! As you can buy players over longer months in FM10, do the SI clubs accept to sell their players over many months/years or are they still very stubborn and want straight out???

Perhaps the player's valuation changes depending on how their club's own transfer targets are responding.

Its actually not been happening to me, I find it too easy to negotiatie in the demo. I was trying to buy Frey, and Offered 20 million to fiorentina, but they wanted 32. I offered 22 + 2 million after 30 appearances and they accepted, done deal in a single week.

I am also not convinced that this is necessarily a bug as you have not met their valuation in cash terms by spreading payments in your second and third offers. I suspect that you would have got him for 33-34M if you had bid that for cash. You are trying to spread the payments and consequently they want more than they would accept in straight cash terms.

Right, I am aware of the concept of time-value of money, but this was not the case. I was not clear in my original post but Roma was consistently asking for the same amount of money deferred when I put in the two bids that spread a portion of the payments over time. They simply asked for more money up front later in the negotiations than they did at first. And in the fourth response they asked for more money both up front and spread over 18 months than they did the previous bid.

I offered 32m cash, they wanted 38m cash.

then

I offered 24m cash and 12m over 18 months, they wanted 40m cash and 12m over 18 months.

And I appreciate the advice for how to buy the player, but that's not what the issue is. My problem is that there is still a "magic number" for any transfer. There is no sense of give-and-take or negotiating tactics happening at all. All I have to do to be successful in a bid is incrementally raise my bid until it hits the magic number in the game and the bid will be accepted. I can just ignore anything the computer spits back at me as it's simply cosmetic. That is not the way a game of this complexity should be coded.

Needs sorting alittle like. If AI wants a player at a good price, AI gets it at a good price, but us gamers have to pay over the odds on nearly every player.

Its like batering - if you go to (this is maybe a bad example!) a car boot sale and you want product Y. You ask how much it is and they say make me an offer. You say £50 and they say £100. You say ok £75 and they say £120! They have gone above what they originally negotiated on. This would not make sense and would not happen! This is what the OP is referring to.

Right, but in FM negotiations happen over days and things could (theoretically) be changing that would also change the AI club's evaluation of the player. Like if De Rossi has a terrible game or a great game or his backup does or he becomes unhappy and wants to leave or he gets injured or some other midfielder that they have their eye on is transfer listed, etc, etc, etc, etc. I'm not convinced this is what's causing 100% of these kinds of issues, but it is something to keep in mind.

Right, but in FM negotiations happen over days and things could (theoretically) be changing that would also change the AI club's evaluation of the player. Like if De Rossi has a terrible game or a great game or his backup does or he becomes unhappy and wants to leave or he gets injured or some other midfielder that they have their eye on is transfer listed, etc, etc, etc, etc. I'm not convinced this is what's causing 100% of these kinds of issues, but it is something to keep in mind.

Yeah fair point I did not recognise these.

Right, but in FM negotiations happen over days and things could (theoretically) be changing that would also change the AI club's evaluation of the player. Like if De Rossi has a terrible game or a great game or his backup does or he becomes unhappy and wants to leave or he gets injured or some other midfielder that they have their eye on is transfer listed, etc, etc, etc, etc. I'm not convinced this is what's causing 100% of these kinds of issues, but it is something to keep in mind.

I'm with you on a theoretical level, but a) I doubt very much that this is coded into the game, b) I can't see any of the above issues, barring a major injury, to effectively change the asking price by millions of dollars, and c) if this was the case, then why is there not an option to respond stating something like "the situation has changed and we now will need X to sell this player."

I think it's key to recognize that you're trying to pry De Rossi away from Roma against their will. I mean, they're not going to go down with the ship, but they don't want to sell if they aren't forced to. I don't think what's being described happens if the team is relatively indifferent or willing to let the player go.

Second, I always viewed the raising of the other team's price as a combination of a bit of retaliation and brinksmanship. Since you're (undoubtedly as United and City and Chelsea and all the like) prying away an icon from a team, they're going to hit you with a high price. Now, I'm assuming that you want to barter, and you seriously undercut their price. Here's where the retaliation comes in, because they see the pittance you're offering despite what they just told you and kinda give you a proverbial middle finger in the form of a higher price. Also, if you're doing the age old tactic of WAY undercutting and then just offering a little bit more many times, then the other club does the whole brinksmanship thing where they figure that if you're just going to keep increasing your price (and if you're doing it in annoyingly small increments) then they're just gonna keep pushing you farther, considering they control the supply. Or maybe even they keep raising the price because they see that you're willing to go higher and they want to make sure you never actually reach their quote without paying huge.

Annoying? Maybe, but I mean I don't think it's all "us gamers always paying over the odds" like SI is out to hurt gamers. We just generally will arbitrarily decide who we want on our team when, no matter who they belong to, and have to deal with the fact that some players aren't easy to get.

I would say that the FM10 Demo is only six months and in my experiences it is harder to buy players in the first season especially the top ones. But after the first season it seems a bit easier.

I second this, I have also raised this issue before. However, I would also like it the other way around, thias a club approaches me and asks what I want for player x, or bids an amount for player x. I would like to be able to say "I want 10 million for that player" but now if you do like that and it is more than the other club wants to pay, they simply withdraw their bid instead of making a counter offer. That is just sooo anoying!!

I think it's key to recognize that you're trying to pry De Rossi away from Roma against their will. I mean, they're not going to go down with the ship, but they don't want to sell if they aren't forced to. I don't think what's being described happens if the team is relatively indifferent or willing to let the player go.

Second, I always viewed the raising of the other team's price as a combination of a bit of retaliation and brinksmanship. Since you're (undoubtedly as United and City and Chelsea and all the like) prying away an icon from a team, they're going to hit you with a high price. Now, I'm assuming that you want to barter, and you seriously undercut their price. Here's where the retaliation comes in, because they see the pittance you're offering despite what they just told you and kinda give you a proverbial middle finger in the form of a higher price. Also, if you're doing the age old tactic of WAY undercutting and then just offering a little bit more many times, then the other club does the whole brinksmanship thing where they figure that if you're just going to keep increasing your price (and if you're doing it in annoyingly small increments) then they're just gonna keep pushing you farther, considering they control the supply. Or maybe even they keep raising the price because they see that you're willing to go higher and they want to make sure you never actually reach their quote without paying huge.

Annoying? Maybe, but I mean I don't think it's all "us gamers always paying over the odds" like SI is out to hurt gamers. We just generally will arbitrarily decide who we want on our team when, no matter who they belong to, and have to deal with the fact that some players aren't easy to get.

Good post.

I still think this is an issue.

I do agree with what you said oxymoronic, and in those situations you would be right.

I offered 20m for Huge Lloris (never thought it would get accepted) they came back with 30m. I thought that was a bit over the top, but, offered 27m, as i am expecting him to be my first choice keeper for many long yaers. So, i thought my 27m wasnt undercutting to much, and was actually a really good offer, considering it is a goalkeeper.

They came back with 48m... *sigh* wtf? Where did the other 18m in value suddenly come from? Its not good AI, or good negotiation. Its rediculous. Now if the player had the status indespensible to the club, I could understand. But as "back up to the first team" (not sure why he aint a hot prospect or higher) It just seems rediculous

Also, @ mitza, completely agree!

If the human raised his price, no matter how much they "want him" (even had fergie saying he do his utmost to sign him - Iniesta), came in with a shoddy offer, i raised it, and not even by much. And they withdraw and dissapear. *sigh*

The non-negotiable part of the deal for a reason. If you don't want to pay 38m but 34m, slap down the non-negotiable sign and that's a sign of 'take it or leave it'.

I still think this is an issue.

I do agree with what you said oxymoronic, and in those situations you would be right.

I offered 20m for Huge Lloris (never thought it would get accepted) they came back with 30m. I thought that was a bit over the top, but, offered 27m, as i am expecting him to be my first choice keeper for many long yaers. So, i thought my 27m wasnt undercutting to much, and was actually a really good offer, considering it is a goalkeeper.

They came back with 48m... *sigh* wtf? Where did the other 18m in value suddenly come from? Its not good AI, or good negotiation. Its rediculous. Now if the player had the status indespensible to the club, I could understand. But as "back up to the first team" (not sure why he aint a hot prospect or higher) It just seems rediculous

Also, @ mitza, completely agree!

If the human raised his price, no matter how much they "want him" (even had fergie saying he do his utmost to sign him - Iniesta), came in with a shoddy offer, i raised it, and not even by much. And they withdraw and dissapear. *sigh*

To me this means they don't want to sell, they gave you 30m thinking that would scare you off. It didn't so they give you 48m!! They just want you to leave their player alone and are giving you a "leave me alone price"

Just as a side note on the above transfer negotiations, I always place non-negotiable bids. This way you always get a yes/no answer from the club rather than a ridiculous fee requested. Generally you tend to get the players cheaper.

IF I have something I don't really want to sell but give you a price what I would let it go for , then you tell me it's too high and make a lower offer. Maybe I would just think "Too late you messed up" And up the price , could this not be the case ?

This is what I always put these cases down too anyways.

this really should be looked at. ive encountered it quite often over previous versions.

edit: ive always found that clubs ALWAYS refuse my offers if i add non negotiable.

Of course it is an issue.

The second a club IRL enters into a negotiation, the clubs get closer and closer with each round of talks - worst case scenario is that after a club is willing to enter negotiations, they do not go higher than their original starting point. However, in FM, clubs raise the price they want during negotiations, which is very unrealistic.

I would say that the FM10 Demo is only six months and in my experiences it is harder to buy players in the first season especially the top ones. But after the first season it seems a bit easier.

I agree with you on this one - it is usually very difficult to buy the top players in the first season. The second season it gets easier and so on - this is my experience anyway.

In the FM10 demo i have noticed that non negotiable offers seem to get accepted if they are at the right price.

In one of my games as Man untd i decided to have a bit of fun and se how much i could get David Villa for. i offered 5omil, they wanted 128 mil (i think it was round about this figure, certainly over 100mill). I offered 70 mill plus 2 players (i think Oshea and 3rd choice gk) they accept but one of my players doesnt want to leave. I offered 70 mill straight cash and non negotiable and they accepted.

Obviously i think 70 mill is probably to much to pay for Villa in a proper game but based on this and other transfers that have went the same way for me in FM10, it seems to me that the AI is now willing to negotiate at least a little.

Although I partly agree with the OP, this does actually happen in real life. One example is the deal which was to take David Villa to Real Madrid, the negotiations eventually stalled on 28 million from Madrid with Valencia wanting 32 million, then Madrid offered 32 million and Valencia upped it to 40 million. So the deal never went through. Another example was Liverpool attempting to buy Gareth Barry last season. Every offer made by Liverpool would receive an increase from Aston Villa. Eventually he ended up at Manchester City. It does happen though I agree it does make for frustrating gameplay.

However I would like to know why the AI offers installments and only seems to want to receive straight cash. That is the real annoyance.

Yes it is an issue. A few years back they changed the transfer code, but I didn`t see a major change, the basic is still the same as the previous one. They didn`t come with something new, ex: rewriting from scrap, forgeting the old one.

At the present I still don`t understand what is the point for a players value showed in the players profile????? If you scout the player you will se that his transfer value is 3 or 4 times higher

Every player is for sale, this summer transfer market told us so, no matter how important is the player for the club, you just have to pay the right amount of money, wich in fm is very very very high, not so realistic..............

I think it's key to recognize that you're trying to pry De Rossi away from Roma against their will. I mean, they're not going to go down with the ship, but they don't want to sell if they aren't forced to. I don't think what's being described happens if the team is relatively indifferent or willing to let the player go.

Second, I always viewed the raising of the other team's price as a combination of a bit of retaliation and brinksmanship. Since you're (undoubtedly as United and City and Chelsea and all the like) prying away an icon from a team, they're going to hit you with a high price. Now, I'm assuming that you want to barter, and you seriously undercut their price. Here's where the retaliation comes in, because they see the pittance you're offering despite what they just told you and kinda give you a proverbial middle finger in the form of a higher price. Also, if you're doing the age old tactic of WAY undercutting and then just offering a little bit more many times, then the other club does the whole brinksmanship thing where they figure that if you're just going to keep increasing your price (and if you're doing it in annoyingly small increments) then they're just gonna keep pushing you farther, considering they control the supply. Or maybe even they keep raising the price because they see that you're willing to go higher and they want to make sure you never actually reach their quote without paying huge.

Annoying? Maybe, but I mean I don't think it's all "us gamers always paying over the odds" like SI is out to hurt gamers. We just generally will arbitrarily decide who we want on our team when, no matter who they belong to, and have to deal with the fact that some players aren't easy to get.

Well, obviously the club is willing to let the player go for the right price as I could accept their demands, but that's not the issue here. I don't have a problem with them asking an insane price for a player, that's legitimate if they don't want to sell him.

But my problem is with the lack of realistic negotiating. First, in this specific case, I did not low-ball them at any point. I offered bids valued at 26m, then 32m, then 32m (structured differently) then 36m. They wanted 42m, then 38m, then 38m, then 52m. That makes NO sense.

Unless they're operating as you explain and what I'm going to summarize as "dick mode." While I'm sure this happens in real life, it would only happen on extremely rare occasions as negotiating in this way would cause most every other club in the world to refuse to deal with the party acting in this manner. So while your theory makes sense in the abstract, it just does not happen in the real world. And it's reading a lot into a computer game which is based on logic.

Again, let me repeat, I do not object to having to pay an obscene amount for De Rossi or any other player. I simply have a problem with the system as coded by SI. This should not be a difficult problem to fix.

Is there anyone from SI who would care to comment on this or address any of my or any other concerns raised in this thread?

Although I partly agree with the OP, this does actually happen in real life. One example is the deal which was to take David Villa to Real Madrid, the negotiations eventually stalled on 28 million from Madrid with Valencia wanting 32 million, then Madrid offered 32 million and Valencia upped it to 40 million. So the deal never went through. Another example was Liverpool attempting to buy Gareth Barry last season. Every offer made by Liverpool would receive an increase from Aston Villa. Eventually he ended up at Manchester City. It does happen though I agree it does make for frustrating gameplay.

However I would like to know why the AI offers installments and only seems to want to receive straight cash. That is the real annoyance.

Can you please post some link for this? It's not that I don't believe you, but that I never read anything over the summer where Villa was available for less than 40m and never remember a point where Liverpool offered the 18m that Villa wanted for Barry.

And I can understand prices changing as the transfer window draws to a close, but in the example in my original post, this was in late July/early August and took place over a single week. Not like the Barry affair which lasted all summer.

And if both cases you state are true, then even then the price simply went up as the transfer window drew to a close and the club would have had less time to find a suitable replacement and therefor would need higher compensation. They didn't move the price up and down at random.

Surely the point here is that in real life getting a player is difficult? If you could just offer a club a fee, then they ask more, then you offer something half way between the two and you got the player how dull would that be?

Life isn't that simple. In the real world managers fail to get their player more often than they succeed which is why they always have back up plans. I guess Man Utd and Real Madrid will succeed more often than not but smaller clubs struggle. Just today Roy Keane was saying he was trying to get people on loan but so far all of his enquiries had failed. Its just not easy buying players!

It's simple. Don't trust Italians!!! :-)

Surely the point here is that in real life getting a player is difficult? If you could just offer a club a fee, then they ask more, then you offer something half way between the two and you got the player how dull would that be?

Life isn't that simple. In the real world managers fail to get their player more often than they succeed which is why they always have back up plans. I guess Man Utd and Real Madrid will succeed more often than not but smaller clubs struggle. Just today Roy Keane was saying he was trying to get people on loan but so far all of his enquiries had failed. Its just not easy buying players!

No, the point here has nothing to do with whether the player is easy to get or not. The point is that the AI does not negotiate on the basis of how much it wants to keep the player. Haggling usually works as follows:

Buyer: I'll offer 75% of the generally accepted value for the player.

Seller: Well, I'm not philosophically opposed to the sale per se, but 75% isn't anywhere close to what I want. You could pay 130% and I'd listen.

Buyer: Oh, I didn't know you were planning on keeping him integral to your team. He's still my preferred guy... would you consider face value?

Seller: No, no, that's just too low. I could go as low as 120% in extremis, but that's really about it.

Buyer: *delays slightly* OK, I've checked my other options, and I'm pretty desperate for this player. Can we do 110% with a couple of incentive clauses?

Seller: Weellll... he's not that critical... OK, make small changes X, Y, and Z and we're good to go.

But in FM, it goes like this:

Buyer: I'll offer 75% of the generally accepted value for the player.

Seller: Well, I'm not philosophically opposed to the sale per se, but 75% isn't anywhere close to what I want. You could pay 130% and I'd listen.

Buyer: Oh, I didn't know you were planning on keeping him integral to your team. He's still my preferred guy... would you consider face value?

Seller: OMG YOU BASTARD YOU'RE TRYING TO SCREW ME OFFER ME 200% OR SHUT UP!

Buyer: *delays slightly* Um, yeah. Can we be reasonable here? I've looked around, and I still want him. What about 110% with some incentives?

Seller: Sorry, but I really need 120% with bigger incentives.

Buyer: Can we spread that out in a payment plan?

Seller: F*CK OFF YOU ****! PAYMENT PLAN MEANS YOU PAY 182%!

If the offers the buyer is making aren't acceptable, then the AI could simply come out and say, "Sorry, we're not going to sell him. Your price is simply uninteresting to us." It's pretty clear from what the AI actually does that its algorithm for negotiations is inadequate. Counteroffers are treated as grounds for retaliation, and it seems pretty clear that the best-and-final goalpost for what the AI will accept moves substantially farther away every time you try to accommodate it with anything other than a straight cash capitulation. It's a big problem, and it's been a big problem for years. But since it isn't a sexy bullet point for the box cover, and SI keep sticking to the philosophy that core modules can't be improved unless they get complete overhauls, we never see movement on this.

I think a few of you missed the point. If something is say £20, and i haggle with you and say £10 you don't come back with £30 you try and meet in the middle. Yes, Roma obviously want to keep a hold of De Rossi. But their initial acceptance was 38m. This guy tried to haggle a little and they came back with more than the original asking price. That doesn't make sense and needs sorting out.

The only time a seller tries to sell something for more during negotiations is where the circumstances drastically change. Examples include:

- Buyer says something bad about the seller

- The player suddenly hits 10 goals in 3 matches

- The player gets a shock callup to the national team

Negotiations are all about finding a point in between the buyer and seller valuations which is acceptable to both parties. If either side is unsure of the valuation (hence keeps raising it) arguably they shouldn't be in negotiations in the first place (or even in business). You would seldom go into business with someone who insists on asking for more and more as the process of negotiation goes on. I'd actually see them as fooling around with me.

So yes, this is broken and stupid - the AI should be smart enough to be able to value a player and stick to that valuation barring something drastic.

Needs sorting a little like. If AI wants a player at a good price, AI gets it at a good price, but us gamers have to pay over the odds on nearly every player.

I feel the same way. I usually look at the player's valuation as a starting point and realize that in order to get him, I'll likely have to pay double (i.e., if he's valued at $5 million, I'll have to pay $10 million).

In 09, I found that if I offered slightly more - say, $7.5 million or so - and set it as non-negotiable, I could usually get my man. So perhaps the AI just needs a stern talking to about player values at the negotiating table, hehe.

With all that said, I think the AI needs to have some way of telling you more information. In the case of De Rossi, Roma could tell you "We're not selling him no matter what." Or Roma could say, "We'll sell him for XX million, no less." An addition like that would be nice.

sign Palombo instead

/problems

I'm not sure why people always confuse "Value", what something is worth, with "Cost" or how much money someone will accept for the same item. Its right there in Das Kapital. If you want to buy a player who is not for sale and you offer the club LESS than what he's worth, then why in the world would they bother negotiating with you. A player may be objectively worth 33 mil but that doesn't mean the club will want to sell him at that price or any price but almost certainly not for less. 33 mil is the "value" and 55 is more likely to be the "cost."

I think its hard to have a debate about this because some people insist that it has never happened, including myself. In the last 3 editions of FM, when I have been given unrealistic negotiations I know exactly what I have done wrong and it isn't ambiguous in any way. I think the OP needs to tell us exactly what he offered otherwise we can't really guess and argue either way.

P.S. Don't think AI gets better deals, I got Cassano for less than the 18 million Chelsea keeps paying.

One thing I have never understood about the 'fanboys' that frequent this particular forum is that they try and deny any problem with the game.

MSCCG, it does not matter one jot whether you have experienced this or not - plenty of others have and on a scale that would suggest that there is a problem, your conclusion that if your bid is rejected 'you know what you have done wrong' is nonsense. Its meant to be a negotiation not a case of finding a magic formula that works. In fact nothing you have posted above adds anything to the debate.

I have seen this problem and it does only occur imo when a club really doesnt want to sell a player and more to the point, financially doesnt have to sell the player - however the way to express this is not to keep raising the asking price with every counter offer as that just frustrates the hell out of the player. If a club values a player at a specific amount it is stupid to then raise that asking price the closer the other team gets to offering it, it just doesnt make sense.

I attempted to sign De Rossi with an Arsenal save, scouted him first and the report said £35M would be enough.

I offered 32.5M straight cash and they accepted.

One thing I have never understood about the 'fanboys' that frequent this particular forum is that they try and deny any problem with the game.

MSCCG, it does not matter one jot whether you have experienced this or not - plenty of others have and on a scale that would suggest that there is a problem, your conclusion that if your bid is rejected 'you know what you have done wrong' is nonsense. Its meant to be a negotiation not a case of finding a magic formula that works. In fact nothing you have posted above adds anything to the debate.

I have seen this problem and it does only occur imo when a club really doesnt want to sell a player and more to the point, financially doesnt have to sell the player - however the way to express this is not to keep raising the asking price with every counter offer as that just frustrates the hell out of the player. If a club values a player at a specific amount it is stupid to then raise that asking price the closer the other team gets to offering it, it just doesnt make sense.

Well the people who are having the problem have the burden of proof here, and I'm not going to trust arguments based on hearsay. Nobody who has complained in the last few years has yet to submit even simple proof like screenshots. So make it clear exactly what you are doing, or else nothing can be done. I have only ever had the negotiating team increase asking price for a player when I have accidentally offered the same price as last time or my extra payments were not increased a sufficient amount. In that case, I stop negotiations and start again the next day, because it starts going in an infinite loop. My argument is that the AI starts asking unrealistic prices when you do something unrealistic first, and that sometimes what seems realistic to us is not the same as the AI i.e. offering extra payments that is slightly closer to the asking price but not enough to advance to the next round of negotiations

I've never understood why people think they have an argument when they have offered next to no proof. Show me your proof! It should be easy if the problem is so clear to see. My argument is that there is no debate here, because the first argument was a non-argument.

P.S. I never denied the problem, I denied being affected by it. They should make clear in the game what stupid thing you have done when this happens, but this is as far as I believe the problem goes. I also think that it is better to have a good talk about it rather than throwing names around whenever someone tries to disagree, especially considering your post count.

I've experienced problems with negotiations before. The worst example was I offered Bayern £10m for Demichelis straight up cash they come back with a counter offer of £15m straight cash, I accepted this offer, they then came back wanting £35m and they wouldn't accept any less, I mean seriously...........