are the arrows back

hi ive oly just noticed the demo has come up so while i got to wait till it downloads can anyone please tell me if they brought the arrows back or left them out have been lookin at a lot of posts but not seen anything thanks

In the new tactical view you can't set arrows for your players. You can revert the tactical view to the FM09-type (with arrows) however.

thanks mate got to say i missed the arrows on last years

i've spent a few hours on the demo now and can't say I miss them. The new tactics creator renders them useless.

No, the arrows aren't back. I'm yet to be given a valid reason why they were removed.

I've been told the following:

• Arrows caused players to move robotically- I disproved this with PKMs and that argument was dropped.
  
• Arrows created exploits- why not just fix the exploits? I received no valid answer. All SI and those "in the loop" have come back to me with is point 1, which I've disproved once and for all.
  
• The new system renders them irrelevant- yet "wide play" seems ineffectual, isn't available in classic mode, and forward runs/runs from deep don't allow enough control.
  

So, all in all, the arrows were removed for little or no reason. And they won't be coming back.

If you'd been involved in FML, you'd have seen why they were removed and the whole process and discussion before it was done (including several different steps before deciding on this way).

It improved the gameplay of FML incredibly and is a much better system to build on than the arrows system imo.

Don't need it with the tactical creator!

If you'd been involved in FML, you'd have seen why they were removed and the whole process and discussion before it was done (including several different steps before deciding on this way).

It improved the gameplay of FML incredibly and is a much better system to build on than the arrows system imo.

It sounds very blasé and arrogant, but I don't care if removing arrows helped FML. I don't care if an early incarnation of the FML ME couldn't handle arrows and therefore FM had to follow. The old FM MEs could handle arrows. Therefore, the flaw was probably with changes made to the ME, not the arrows themselves.

Could you elaborate on why removing one of the major elements of tactical creation created a better system to build upon? I mean, removing RWB, for example, wouldn't improve the game.

Don't need it with the tactical creator!

They're completely different systems. They are neither mutually exclusive nor in battle.

What do you mean by arrows because theyve always been in FM in 09 and 10(but you need to revert to clasic view)

It sounds very blasé and arrogant, but I don't care if removing arrows helped FML. I don't care if an early incarnation of the FML ME couldn't handle arrows and therefore FM had to follow. The old FM MEs could handle arrows. Therefore, the flaw was probably with changes made to the ME, not the arrows themselves.

Could you elaborate on why removing one of the major elements of tactical creation created a better system to build upon? I mean, removing RWB, for example, wouldn't improve the game.

Surely you can see, from SI's point of view, why this was done?

What do you mean by arrows because theyve always been in FM in 09 and 10(but you need to revert to clasic view)

Those arrows were just representative of forward runs. The arrows from before that were something else in their own right.

Surely you can see, from SI's point of view, why this was done?

I can see several valid reasons for removing the arrows under certain criteria. For example, if the arrows had actually created exploits via unrealistic behaviour. However, they didn't.

If changes were made to the way arrows worked in one of FML's match engines which then caused unrealistic behaviour, then those changed should be reversed rather than removing arrows to the detriment of the game.

Let's say I make glass vases for a living. I have a reliable way of creating these vases, including special rods that allow me to shape the glass without burning my fingers. However, new technology comes out, allowing me to try a different way of making the vases. This technology disagrees with the rods. Should I a) burn my fingers every time I make a vase or b) use my old, reliable method that has no disadvantages compared to the new systems? No brainer.

Personally, I prefer the way the match engine is now and I'm definitly not the only one.

You're fighting a losing battle as more and more people are forgetting about arrows and moving on, just like they did with wibble/wobble.

I've never cared about the masses tbh. Another terrible comparison: most Americans were in favour of segregation in the Southern States at first, but Malcolm X and Martin Luther King changed that.

Once I have a single valid reason that doesn't crumble in the face of a PKM showing how arrows actually worked rather than the Chinese whispers of "they were robotic, players moved instantly, they were unrealistic" which had little factual substance, then I'll stop trying. However, I will continue to ask for some sort of extra control for player movement.

When asked to list their top annoyances with FM09, these are some of the answers given:

Chopper99:

1 - Activation problem / using DRM's and Steam in general.

2 - Removal of tactical arrows without improving the tactical interface.

3 - Serie C bug.

4 - The classic 2D view looking massively different.

5 - The poor optimisation that meant the game was just as slow when using 2D.

Nomis07:

1. Arrows gone

2. 2D change

3. Tactics in general

4. <censored>

5. Press conferences not living up to expectations

CrashOverride:

1) Activation code decryption

2) Bloody Press confrences

3) Move to reserves until match fit! - I keep forgetting to unmark them when they are fit (my fault I know but still annoying)

4) Arrows

5) For me not being able to become a club legend/icon. Ive won more trophies than Shankly Paisley and Rafa and I've got no recognition.

Insert_Goal_Here:

1.Arrows

2. Injuries

3. Activation

4. Conferences

5. Tactics in general

Rupal:

1. Tactical system.

2. Press conferences.

3. Training.

4. Team talks.

5. Injuries.

In addition, according to this recent thread, 74.2% of users would either like arrows introduced or a working system to control player movement that doesn't involve arrows. 56% of them want arrows back. So, that blows your argument out the water! You and SI seem to be the ones fighting the losing battle.