Training in FM10

Hey all,

Like you all I can't wait for FM10 to come out (on pre-order). In my anticipation for the new game I purchased CM10. Before you shoot me, I uninstalled it as quickly as I installed it, mainly because it was buggy and a poor copy of our baby (FM10).

The point of this post is such, although I only played CM10 for a matter of minutes, there was one feature on it which was quite good. You were able to practice set pieces and corners over and over giving each of your players instructions on where to move and who to pass to. The match engine would play out these tactics.

I was wondering if anyone had seen anything like this on the forthcoming FM10. I looked at the previews, screenshots and vids, without seeing any attention given to the training.

Sorry for the long winded post and please let me emphisise that CM10 is NOT worth the money, you will do as I did and uninstall it sharpish.

Roll on October 30th.....Long live the king ;-)

[rant]

Training is rubbish and seemingly pointless on FM - I largely ignore it once I've set up the totally and hilariously unrealistic 'slider schedules' the first time. Even FM05 had drills to assign to players. But SI don't care about progress and evolution of existing parts of the game, and would much rather focus on stuffing it with more and more new features that don't work either.

[/rant]

I cant recall any mention of training changes this year.

Surely something that needs to be looked at but then, its not complicated at all.

You only need a few set ups for different scenarios, then you should just be able to leave it.

Besides, this game is a bout management and I wouldnt want to spend hours setting training schedules - thats why there's coaches!

No, coach are there to apply your strategy, your are the pilot and you define how you want your player to progress. Training system has to be refund, but SI has to think properly in order to improve this in an original and realistic way.

I cant recall any mention of training changes this year.

Surely something that needs to be looked at but then, its not complicated at all.

You only need a few set ups for different scenarios, then you should just be able to leave it.

Besides, this game is a bout management and I wouldnt want to spend hours setting training schedules - thats why there's coaches!

No, coach are there to apply your strategy, your are the pilot and you define how you want your player to progress. Training system has to be refund, but SI has to think properly in order to improve this in an original and realistic way.

Youre missing my point.

I couldnt care less what training is done as long as my players are fit when I want them.

Training schedules are boring and not something I want to sit and have to design.

Choices at the minute are ok imo, sliders arent the answer of course, but how BASIC it is, for me anyway, is fine.

I really don't want to go all scientific and complicated with training.

Maybe they way forward is to have your coaches present you with schedules for all sorts of scenarios and you, being the manager, just pick what you want - that'd do me.

Ok, but many people likes detail. In reality, training is changing every week according to their previous performance and the next match. In reality, the manager pass more than 50% of his management job on the training area to adjust the weekly shcedule and give advice etc... It should be like that :

- long term training : attributes increasement

- specific week training : next match ( weak point ) to define how many exercices in the data base to fullfilled all the weak points ( for me more than 200 )

- training match of the week : to apply your training and prepare the next match.

Nothing complicate in the principe to manage, but maybe complicate to code for SI.

And anybody does not want to use, leave for assistant.

To be honest, the training system is really poor in FM, and complitely "rubbish" in other game.

Change it, but propoerly !!!

Youre missing my point.

I couldnt care less what training is done as long as my players are fit when I want them.

Training schedules are boring and not something I want to sit and have to design.

Choices at the minute are ok imo, sliders arent the answer of course, but how BASIC it is, for me anyway, is fine.

I really don't want to go all scientific and complicated with training.

Maybe they way forward is to have your coaches present you with schedules for all sorts of scenarios and you, being the manager, just pick what you want - that'd do me.

...this game is a bout management and I wouldnt want to spend hours setting training schedules - thats why there's coaches!

And that is why you see Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Rafael Benitez on the training ground, it is not the coaches job to decide training schedules it is the manager and the coaches are there to oversee the managers wishes, so as a manager it is your job to see that the players are fit for the job.

They haven't improved training otherwise the tutorial video for it would reflect this... they probably wouldn't have released a training video before a blog if they had done anyway! So training will be the same for FM10.

Does need something though, as someone else suggested in another thread maybe going down the route of a wizard to cover the sliders would be a good addition

see this thread I've posted about training.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=151376

No training improvement for FM2010, see Paul's reply ...

17-09-2009, 10:46 #180

PaulC

Sports Interactive

Join Date: 24th February 2003

Location: The People's Republic of SI

Posts: 6,136 Re: Football Manager 2009: Where I have felt let down.

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We havent worked on training for FM2010, but no doubt it will be up for some new work in a forthcoming version. But no real discussion as yet, too busy with Fm2010!

I don't mind how training is today. What I would like is to things. I would like to be able to set up, say, three different corner and free kick combinations, it is not very realistic to only have one... And I would like the AI coaches to have a 'set pieces settings' ability, so it would say, for instance if he like his right side cornes to curl inwards or outwards (kicked by a right or left fooded player). I would also like for you to disignate who to kick if it is a direct or indirect free kick...

All i can say is i hope and pray that micro management coaching never happens on FM or it will be the end of the game for an awful lot of people. The game is detailed enough for people with kids , lives and jobs. Adding an extra 3 hours of playing time before you get to kick a ball is ,in my opinion , taking things too far and alienating a big portion of the market.

Isnt the FM community generally older people? Which ,in turn means ,not as much time on there hands as they would like.

Furthermore...

It's just a cheap CM gimmick to take away from the bugs and flaws of the game ,and to show that CM can do something that FM cant ,but we all know that CM isnt very good.

training in FM is rubbish and always has been. there should be an option for you to design your own schedules for your players with specified groups of players e.g. strikers. There should also be an option where you ask one of your coaches to recommend training schedules, that way you actually see the benefit of their stats and reputation. And if you're really not arsed there should be a 'leave to assisstant option'. Within the training there should also be a specified amount of time where the whole team/squad train together for basic exercises,drills and practice matches but there should also be a time that is specified for the different groups of players to work together e.g. strikers work on their finishing, midfielders work on crosses, players practicing free-kicks on goal etc. surely then this would make it more realistic and allow you and your staff to influence what happens in a game more and improve the player's stats? What you think?

It's just a cheap CM gimmick to take away from the bugs and flaws of the game ,and to show that CM can do something that FM cant ,but we all know that CM isnt very good.

Not sure how you can say that improving training in FM can be seen as a 'gimmick' I would say that it is the opposite. Just read your comment again and it seems you are referring to CM as gimmicky then I cannot comment because I've never played the game. You talk about micro management but that would be going a step in the wrong direction too far. Ive spoken to mightymind in the thread that he showed a link to and we want training to be more imaginative and creative and less mundane and boaring as it is. Last year SI focused on 3-D (that for more me is gimmicky) this year a general polish and the league editor have been the main focus among other things. So I believe that the training, youth team, and scouting all need to be significently improved as for me they have become a bit 'stale' now.

I would talk about why and how the youth facilities, training, and scouting could be improved but I have done in other threads and would be just be repeating myself!!!

I just wish I could train my players the way I want to, and improve their abilities in the areas I see fit. As it stands, training appears to just improve random attributes. I would like to say "Kuyt's finishing isn't great for the premiership, I'm going to have him work solely on that for a few months" and then I'd like to actually SEE his finishing improve dramatically over time. This is a simple example, but it's how it's done in real life.

Why can't I set up target practice, shuttle runs, set-piece attacking/defending, corner practice, dribbling practice, [specific] technique practice (NOT just use a slider to determine how much technique training a player does!), headers and volleys (why the hell not?), 5-a-side, keep ball, piggy in the middle etc etc.

Specific schedules and drills>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sliders.

I agree totally with nev147 and Wee Aja, left is to convince SI members...

I'm not done.

Along the same lines; I would also like to take a young 'promising midfielder' and as well as work on his physical attributes, work on his passing so much that it bores the utter life out of him. But the result would be that he could eventually fart the ball through the eye of a darning needle from fifty yards with his eyes closed.

Why can't I set up target practice, shuttle runs, set-piece attacking/defending, corner practice, dribbling practice, [specific] technique practice (NOT just use a slider to determine how much technique training a player does!), headers and volleys (why the hell not?), 5-a-side, keep ball, piggy in the middle etc etc.

Specific schedules and drills>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sliders.

Because if it's working properly, you'd end up setting a different schedule every week to fit around the matches in that particular week, the time of the season and so on. It's a micromanagement nightmare that would bore the socks of every that used it.

I'm all for having more control over which attributes are trained etc, but setting up weekly schedules is not the way to do it.

Could always set up countless weekly schedules whenever you have a few minutes spare here and there, and then assign them at various points to different players. But yeah I see what you mean; it could get tedious.

It's finding a balance I suppose, like most things in FM. We need something more than what we have now.

Unfortunaly, this is the reality of a manager to break his head every week to schedule a specific training, even if you don't like.

Because if it's working properly, you'd end up setting a different schedule every week to fit around the matches in that particular week, the time of the season and so on. It's a micromanagement nightmare that would bore the socks of every that used it.

I'm all for having more control over which attributes are trained etc, but setting up weekly schedules is not the way to do it.

Because if it's working properly, you'd end up setting a different schedule every week to fit around the matches in that particular week, the time of the season and so on. It's a micromanagement nightmare that would bore the socks of every that used it.

I'm all for having more control over which attributes are trained etc, but setting up weekly schedules is not the way to do it.

Yes ,micromanagement is not the way forward.

100% agreed.

<snip>

Sorry for the long winded post <snip>

You call this a long winded post? Take a loot at SFraser's posts mate

On topic, yes training should most definitely be improved. Why do I have to train my wingers on their penalty taking and free kick taking in order to increase their crossing stat?

A possible idea? I know it isn't the most refined but you can understand what I'm trying to get at.

Unfortunaly, this is the reality of a manager to break his head every week to schedule a specific training, even if you don't like.

Yes it is, but this is a game, it's not an exact simulation of real life. A real life manager watches a full 90 minutes of every game in real time, so should we remove the highlights and match speed options?

And force the game to play out a match once in a week of RL?

Unfortunaly, this is the reality of a manager to break his head every week to schedule a specific training, even if you don't like.

So your saying you want a 100% accurate football manager sim?

You need a balance ,you want realism but you want fun too.

Changing my training etc for everymatch is taking things too far ,who would have time to do that? how long would a season take? it's unrealistic to want this in my opinion and i really cant see it happening.

I seem to remember alot of people thinking that the new 'talking to the press' before and after matches gimmick would be great! I think a whole lot of people now want it removed from the game as it became very tedious ,and time consuming.

Im not saying that training and youth couldnt do with a tweak but lets not get too deep into it.

Why do I have to train my wingers on their penalty taking and free kick taking in order to increase their crossing stat?

A possible idea?

I'm not terribly interested in training, purely because I don't want to micro manage too much. I have individual schedules for each player which I review annually - that's plenty enough work for me! Anymore would ruin it for me.

So, you make a good point - and I like your solution too Very easy, and does exactly what I want.

I agree, but as you can have many possibilitie to put each player whereever you want, as you are able to scout a player with your selected attribute, we should also be able to schedule a training affecting almost each attribute ( dribbling, 5-5, work in space, heading, movements, off-side etc... ), it's just a logical with what is already existing in other areas.

Yes it is, but this is a game, it's not an exact simulation of real life. A real life manager watches a full 90 minutes of every game in real time, so should we remove the highlights and match speed options?

Not sure how you can say that improving training in FM can be seen as a 'gimmick' I would say that it is the opposite. Just read your comment again and it seems you are referring to CM as gimmicky then I cannot comment because I've never played the game. You talk about micro management but that would be going a step in the wrong direction too far. Ive spoken to mightymind in the thread that he showed a link to and we want training to be more imaginative and creative and less mundane and boaring as it is. Last year SI focused on 3-D (that for more me is gimmicky) this year a general polish and the league editor have been the main focus among other things. So I believe that the training, youth team, and scouting all need to be significently improved as for me they have become a bit 'stale' now.

I would talk about why and how the youth facilities, training, and scouting could be improved but I have done in other threads and would be just be repeating myself!!!

I never said improving training in FM is gimmicky

What i said was its a cheap gimmick that CM have employed so it looks like there getting one over on FM.

Im also not saying that certain areas cant be improved ,but lets not get too deep into the training etc...hence the micro management comment.

Why do I have to train my wingers on their penalty taking and free kick taking in order to increase their crossing stat?

I agree that the crossing/set piece thing is a bit wrong, but in general it does make sense to group attributes like this. For example, if you are working on improving someones pace, you are almost certainly working on other physical attributes too, like stamina etc. It's difficult to just focus on something like passing, as you'll almost certainly be improving the players first touch at the same time.

I agree, but as you can have many possibilitie to put each player whereever you want, as you are able to scout a player with your selected attribute, we should also be able to schedule a training affecting almost each attribute ( dribbling, 5-5, work in space, heading, movements, off-side etc... ), it's just a logical with what is already existing in other areas.

Yes you should be able to focus more on specific attributes (bearing in mind what I have just posted about attribute groupings), but doing it through scheduling types of training is not the way to do it. The two don't have to go hand in hand, and in fact using types of training makes it more difficult to focus on specific attributes becuase each activity will almost certainly be affecting several attributes.

Isn't this exactly the same as the other thread?

A possible idea? I know it isn't the most refined but you can understand what I'm trying to get at.

Great idea.

I'm not saying this, I'm just telling that I would lile to controll in detail the most important impact of a team in football managing, which is "training". We are taking enough time to set up the individual palyer instructions, and if you feel a weak point, than you change the next match for a small instruction player, etc...so why not this for the training, which is more important for general improvement of every match ( not only attributes ! )

So your saying you want a 100% accurate football manager sim?

You need a balance ,you want realism but you want fun too.

Changing my training etc for everymatch is taking things too far ,who would have time to do that? how long would a season take? it's unrealistic to want this in my opinion and i really cant see it happening.

I seem to remember alot of people thinking that the new 'talking to the press' before and after matches gimmick would be great! I think a whole lot of people now want it removed from the game as it became very tedious ,and time consuming.

Im not saying that training and youth couldnt do with a tweak but lets not get too deep into it.

Your idea of control over training is something very, very few people will be interested in.

The way forward is to keep the simplified version and add more depth to it.

As suggested in the other thread, one way would be the development of "training shouts" which would work on the team and individual players in the same way that match shouts will work in FM10 and FML.

How you can apply "shouts" in training as it cannot go in live.

Your idea of control over training is something very, very few people will be interested in.

The way forward is to keep the simplified version and add more depth to it.

As suggested in the other thread, one way would be the development of "training shouts" which would work on the team and individual players in the same way that match shouts will work in FM10 and FML.

Once set from the training page (or from the player's profile) it stays in effect until you cancel it.

Have you some shouts examples please ?

Once set from the training page (or from the player's profile) it stays in effect until you cancel it.

Great idea.

Sarcasm? :confused:

Oh and in my idea, yes, some attributes should be inter-connected. For example, if I tick passing, first touch would also be ticked by default, but if I tick First touch, passing wouldn't. Same for Pace and Acceleration and Stamina. Ticking Pace will automatically improve Stamina but ticking Stamina doesn't have to improve pace.

I think it would be good to target certain attributes, for sure. The main gripes I have are long throws being increased with crossing, corners and so on, and heading being in with a strange set of attributes. IMO it should be in with both shooting and defending if possible.

That shouldn't be instead of the current system, it should supplement it.

mightymind- learn to use the quote function!

What's wrong with quoting people in this way?

mightymind- learn to use the quote function!

FWIW, I rarely bother with any in depth training as the benefits seem to be fairly negligible. I just employ the best coaches I can and try to get my stars as high as possible

Can you explain please ?

They haven't improved training otherwise the tutorial video for it would reflect this... they probably wouldn't have released a training video before a blog if they had done anyway! So training will be the same for FM10.

Does need something though, as someone else suggested in another thread maybe going down the route of a wizard to cover the sliders would be a good addition

I think it would be good to target certain attributes, for sure. The main gripes I have are long throws being increased with crossing, corners and so on, and heading being in with a strange set of attributes. IMO it should be in with both shooting and defending if possible.

That shouldn't be instead of the current system, it should supplement it.

mightymind- learn to use the quote function!

i never change my training just leave it as it is.

Because if it's working properly, you'd end up setting a different schedule every week to fit around the matches in that particular week, the time of the season and so on. It's a micromanagement nightmare that would bore the socks of every that used it.

I understand that you do not want training to become tedious and boring, but in reality it is! At the end of the day like in FM and IRL in regards to football management, it is the managers that go the extra mile and have the minutest attention to detail that separate the 'good' managers from the 'great' managers. I want as I have said not 100% 'micro managment' but less boring, mundane training with more interaction. As Wee Aja said if he wants his star striker to improve his heading and wants intensive heading for a season he expects his attribute of heading to improve by two places, is this too much to ask for?

Unfortunaly, this is the reality of a manager to break his head every week to schedule a specific training, even if you don't like.

Separates the men from the boys!!!

I never said improving training in FM is gimmicky

Point taken but I did say during that particular post that it seems that you were in fact talking about CM and not FM's training.

Its not about changing training to become so boring that it puts people off, and I would say that changing training every week is also too much and just not do able. Its a more user friendly format that give us the manager the opportunity a more hands on approach and a sense of realism especially when training youth players, as the older more experienced players attributes will not change much but still should be able to given the correct training of individual attributes as el sid explained well .

E.g. if you want a younger player to improve is flair and creativity, as they are both 13, and 17 years old. Currently my experiences have shown me that what ever I do those attributes will hardly increase or not at all in the next 3-5 years. With the correct individual training I don't think it is asking too much for this player to improve these attributes to 16 after 3-4 years of training.

Also training is not just about improving individual training but improving as a team. When we see Arsenal, Man Utd, and Barcelona score a great goal or team move do we seriously think that was just made up. No. They have spent many training sessions, yes often a bit tedious after a while on particular moves, drills, but also gained an understanding with one another and built a team chemistry that they try and implement in a game. Can a world or europe xi achieve this, no, you can't just assemble a team and 'click' straight away. This is moving off point a little but I believe that the training should also allow us to practice team moves that can be brought to the match situation and also build up a team chemistry that goes hand in hand with the preferred team moves and not just see training as boring and micro management but what can be done to make FM better and more exciting!!!

I don't use 3-D, my computer is not good enough, but thought it was great for those people that would use it unlike myself. If people think that the training is great and does not need any attention, then fair enough. I believe that if people don't want more interaction with training then let your assistant set the training, this would solve your problem, but for the people that would like the training to be looked at then it should be.

i never change my training just leave it as it is.

Does this comment and many similar ones not tell us everyting we need to know about training!!!

I understand that you do not want training to become tedious and boring, but in reality it is! At the end of the day like in FM and IRL in regards to football management, it is the managers that go the extra mile and have the minutest attention to detail that separate the 'good' managers from the 'great' managers. I want as I have said not 100% 'micro managment' but less boring, mundane training with more interaction. As Wee Aja said if he wants his star striker to improve his heading and wants intensive heading for a season he expects his attribute of heading to improve by two places, is this too much to ask for?

That's the whole point though. There are plenty of ways that training could be handled that allow you much more control, but don't require masses of boring micromanagement. Going down the route of scheduling different activities is a bad idea. Expanding the sliders to allow more precise control of attributes, expanding the PPM and position training to all you to shape player's playing style, finding some sensible and logical way of linking training and tactics and then having a wizard sitting over the top for less interested users is the way to go imo.

Great idea.

Sarcasm? :confused:

Hehe

No I meant it. Great idea

That's the whole point though. There are plenty of ways that training could be handled that allow you much more control, but don't require masses of boring micromanagement. Going down the route of scheduling different activities is a bad idea. Expanding the sliders to allow more precise control of attributes, expanding the PPM and position training to all you to shape player's playing style, finding some sensible and logical way of linking training and tactics and then having a wizard sitting over the top for less interested users is the way to go imo.

Improving/expanding the training as you have said is certainly an improvement on the current status. Expanding the sliders? Ok yes but a bit dull? Linking training and tactics sound encouraging.

Micromanagement, different activities, and making a group of attributes is the same ( you just put a name of exercice in each group ). The question is : how many attributes group ( exercices ) will exists. For me, more than 200 exercices ( attribute groups) if you want really a specific training area.

That's the whole point though. There are plenty of ways that training could be handled that allow you much more control, but don't require masses of boring micromanagement. Going down the route of scheduling different activities is a bad idea. Expanding the sliders to allow more precise control of attributes, expanding the PPM and position training to all you to shape player's playing style, finding some sensible and logical way of linking training and tactics and then having a wizard sitting over the top for less interested users is the way to go imo.