FM10 "The Last Word"

(This thread could be titled Tactical Masterclass, also.)...and it rambles a bit, my point coming late into it.

Now that FM 10 will use the tactical wizard, a more intuitive way of putting tactical theory into in-match practice, the flavour of tactical threads will no doubt change dramatically. The fact that a 442 attacking tactic that works well for Man Utd in FM09 but that totally fails if used for Salisbury City should come as no surprise but it surely makes downloadable tactics practically redundant, and viva that I say.

I hope and truely believe that future tactical theory threads/posts will be along the lines of "if this is happening then I need to make this "tweak"", where the "tweak" in question is very much a footballing instructions rather that a slider adjustment.

Bearing the above in mind I will draw your attention to the Sky Sports program "The Last Word" where Andy Gray, ably hindered by Richard Keys, analyses some key points from that weekends games showing how the matches developed - a tactical analysis in part. The point of my thread is, could wwfan and other great FM luminaries give "tactical masterclasses" in future, by anlysing a match in real life that most of us will have watched, and heard disected by the pundits, with wwfan & co giving their spin on how if it was an FM match they would have made changes. This would be something we could all relate to in the FM10 world.

One last note, in the FM07 days, in real life, Man City beat Man Utd 3-1 and this was analysed by a particular thread in the Forums which pointed out how Sinclair on the wing was targeted with to-head balls (TM = Sinclair, supply = to head), and he ran amock over Silvestre who won nothing in the air. The whole result turned on this tactical theory. This thread was way ahead of its time and I think paves the way for FM10 tactical threads.

Unfortunately i'm not sure that downloadable tactics will disappear, it depends how good the tactical wizard is at setting up tactics. If the tactics it creates will still require major adjustments i think there will be plenty of people who won't bother and instead continue to download tactics.

Unfortunately i'm not sure that downloadable tactics will disappear, it depends how good the tactical wizard is at setting up tactics. If the tactics it creates will still require major adjustments i think there will be plenty of people who won't bother and instead continue to download tactics.

Am sure you are right but I doubt they will be effective. Understanding, translating & tweaking will be the way to go but now in recognisable football terms. Strugglers to FM10 will not be those that "dont get the slider thing" but will be those with minimal IRL football tactical knowledge - and I hope the Community will put their backs into helping them in the manner to which I alluded. It could lead to some fascinating tactical debate & study IMO.

Yeah i think you're absolutely right and i hope thats the direction it goes in now, i know that would be more beneficial for me and other people on these forums to learn more about the tactical side to the game rather than just downloading tactics and applying them without any real knowledge of how they work.

I'm really excited about trying out the tactics wizard now, i hope i can make some really good tactics!!!

As far as downloadable tactics are concerned there should be no change to the current situation. They may or may not work in different sitautions, just as it is now.

As far as some in-depth tactical analysis and their translation to FM is concerned, that would surely be a great read, whoever the author might be.

But surely you would rather see the tactics forum move away from downloadable tactics towards providing more info for people to be able to build and tweak their own tactics rather than never learning?

I sincerely hope that the new tactic creator will make it intuitive to create the tactics we want.

The reason for the downloadable tactics now is more based on the fact that players don't know what is the difference between 2 clicks of Creative Freedom to 5 clicks, and in fact, what does Creative Freedom actually means (to the ME)? I originally thought it mean take a "freer role, do what you think is better", but reading now on the forum, it actually means "Try the harder stuff, making it more unpredictable".

Hopefully the tactic creator will hide all that and make it possible for the users to create the tactic exactly to what they want it to be.

Of course, there will always be fine-grain adjustment done on the slider (SI can't possibly create a name for each click on the slider) so there will still be downloadable, but at least it's not because the users just don't understand how to create one in the first place.

One last note, in the FM07 days, in real life, Man City beat Man Utd 3-1 and this was analysed by a particular thread in the Forums which pointed out how Sinclair on the wing was targeted with to-head balls (TM = Sinclair, supply = to head), and he ran amock over Silvestre who won nothing in the air. The whole result turned on this tactical theory. This thread was way ahead of its time and I think paves the way for FM10 tactical threads.

I think you'll find that it was Patrice Evra, (not Mikael Silvestre), who was making his debut for Mnachester United, who was playing at leftback that day in January 2006, (so must have been the FM06 days), as the City goalkeeper and defence threw constant long balls towards Trevor Sinclair. Evra was subsequently substituted at half time.

But sorry, that is not the point.

I think you'll find that it was Patrice Evra, (not Mikael Silvestre), who was making his debut for Mnachester United, who was playing at leftback that day in January 2006, (so must have been the FM06 days), as the City goalkeeper and defence threw constant long balls towards Trevor Sinclair. Evra was subsequently substituted at half time.

But sorry, that is not the point.

I remember that game, thinking uh oh... what has SAF done replacing Heinze with this "player"...

Glad to be proven very wrong!

How presumptious to assume the 'last word' on a game that isn't even released yet.

How presumptious to assume the 'last word' on a game that isn't even released yet.

LOL no I certainly am not, the thread title is ironic and "last word" is purely the name of a TV programme - not a statement of intent!...but I suspect you did realise that. You will have to wait a few days for my "The Official Last Word sponsored by big men with guns" thread. :-)

I think you'll find that it was Patrice Evra, (not Mikael Silvestre), who was making his debut for Mnachester United, who was playing at leftback that day in January 2006, (so must have been the FM06 days), as the City goalkeeper and defence threw constant long balls towards Trevor Sinclair. Evra was subsequently substituted at half time.

But sorry, that is not the point.

I was certain it was Silvestre, I thought Evra's nightmare debut was in a different Derby match, and the long balls were more from the rearguard of midfield (?)..... but you have me wondering now....

I've already seen a couple of post-release documents inspired by FML and Beta testing, and I can safely say you won't be disappointed. Haven't had much to do with them myself, but they are far better than anything I could manage. I'm actually so close to the process of developing the tactical system now I'm probably blinded as to the best way to employ it. I'd certainly be biased as I'm happier with certain things than others. I generally think it will be best for people a little more distanced and detached from the technicalities of the system to provide tactical analysis and feedback.

LOL no I certainly am not, the thread title is ironic and "last word" is purely the name of a TV programme - not a statement of intent!...but I suspect you did realise that.

Ah, I see. Funnily enough it's not screened in Cambodia

How d'you get time to watch non-football on TV what with blanket footie coverage AND FM??

Ah, I see. Funnily enough it's not screened in Cambodia

How d'you get time to watch non-football on TV what with blanket footie coverage AND FM??

non-football!?!?!?...you may want to read post number 1 again - all will become clear. Apart from footy, can always make time for Property Ladder, Inbetweeners & CSI !

Bearing the above in mind I will draw your attention to the Sky Sports program "The Last Word" where Andy Gray, ably hindered by Richard Keys, analyses some key points from that weekends games showing how the matches developed - a tactical analysis in part. The point of my thread is, could wwfan and other great FM luminaries give "tactical masterclasses" in future, by anlysing a match in real life that most of us will have watched, and heard disected by the pundits, with wwfan & co giving their spin on how if it was an FM match they would have made changes. This would be something we could all relate to in the FM10 world.

I think I'd quite enjoy that, it would certainly make understanding the instructions easier if I could compare it to a real life game.

Ah, I see. Funnily enough it's not screened in Cambodia

How d'you get time to watch non-football on TV what with blanket footie coverage AND FM??

'The last word' is a football show that analyses the key points of the weekend's games in the sort of detail you don't get in usual highlights shows. It usually involves Andy Gray arguing with himself for ages about whether or not it was a throw in.

'The last word' is a football show that analyses the key points of the weekend's games in the sort of detail you don't get in usual highlights shows. It usually involves Andy Gray arguing with himself for ages about whether or not it was a throw in.

To which "Keysie" will usually add some banal comment like "but surely for an outfield player to throw the ball into play is handball, isnt it?" LOL

I was certain it was Silvestre, I thought Evra's nightmare debut was in a different Derby match, and the long balls were more from the rearguard of midfield (?)..... but you have me wondering now....

You think that Mikael Silvestre, a centre half, (albeit often playing at leftback), who's best assest is his heading, would struggle in the air against Trevor Sinclair? Ok then........

It was Patrice Evra. But like I already said, thats not really the point of the thread.

Bearing the above in mind I will draw your attention to the Sky Sports program "The Last Word" where Andy Gray, ably hindered by Richard Keys, analyses some key points from that weekends games showing how the matches developed - a tactical analysis in part. The point of my thread is, could wwfan and other great FM luminaries give "tactical masterclasses" in future, by anlysing a match in real life that most of us will have watched, and heard disected by the pundits, with wwfan & co giving their spin on how if it was an FM match they would have made changes. This would be something we could all relate to in the FM10 world.

One last note, in the FM07 days, in real life, Man City beat Man Utd 3-1 and this was analysed by a particular thread in the Forums which pointed out how Sinclair on the wing was targeted with to-head balls (TM = Sinclair, supply = to head), and he ran amock over Silvestre who won nothing in the air. The whole result turned on this tactical theory. This thread was way ahead of its time and I think paves the way for FM10 tactical threads.

I would really like this tbh. I've been downloading tactics for a long time because trying to understand slidings and stuff is just mind-boggling. So now i'm really trying to create my own and i hope in fm10 the wizard will make things a little easier when creating my own tactic. I hope it's as good as i think it will be!!!

so on a whole, iv read the blogs and looked over the new tactics feature, they make more sence in football terms but i dare say using the wrong instructions will still flaw a team on match day, what is the verdict, is it going to be easier for people to make a winning tactic thatn in previously using the sliders?

so on a whole' date=' iv read the blogs and looked over the new tactics feature, they make more sence in football terms but i dare say [b']using the wrong instructions will still flaw a team on match day[/b], what is the verdict, is it going to be easier for people to make a winning tactic thatn in previously using the sliders?

That isn't the point of it. It's not a 'create a winning tactic' feature that is flawless, it's there for you to create a tactic which you think will work for your own team. Does Wenger or Alex Ferguson always use the right tactic? No, so it's unrealistic to expect you'll never make a flawed tactic that fails against certain teams. It'll simply be more intuitive to make the tactic which you want. Whether it makes it easier to make a winning tactic, well...that all depends on if you know the strengths of your players and build a tactic that suits them.

You think that Mikael Silvestre, a centre half, (albeit often playing at leftback), who's best assest is his heading, would struggle in the air against Trevor Sinclair? Ok then........

It was Patrice Evra. But like I already said, thats not really the point of the thread.

Yep, it was Evra (on his debut iirc)

That isn't the point of it. It's not a 'create a winning tactic' feature that is flawless, it's there for you to create a tactic which you think will work for your own team. Does Wenger or Alex Ferguson always use the right tactic? No, so it's unrealistic to expect you'll never make a flawed tactic that fails against certain teams. It'll simply be more intuitive to make the tactic which you want. Whether it makes it easier to make a winning tactic, well...that all depends on if you know the strengths of your players and build a tactic that suits them.

I understand what you say, i think what i ment was it's ok if every thing works and does what it says on the tin

The tactics creator will really change nothing. It merely simplifies things. Underlying the creator is still the same system. The system does need some figuring out to implement what one wants but it has been done and is not the enigma many make it out to be.

Nothing wrong with downloadable tactics, it has solved many an issue. I for one havent got the time to tweak and change every element at every second seeing as I have to work and downloading a tactic is much easier. the fun comes when it turns out to be useless and then I need another one.