Early Concerns about FM10

Yes, I know I have a reputation for what some people would call "whining". Be open minded with this please.

When FM10 was announced, the key word was "polish". Fantastic, I was utterly delighted.

Now, the last few FMs - 09, 08 and 07 (possibly 06 and 05 too?) have been released with some pretty big problems. Indeed, we know that many people don't consider starting a long term game until the Feb after the game has been released - so that the game is fully patched and most major problems have been addressed.

The last two or three blogs have brought up an issue that makes me question whether or not this release is really going to be all that different, despite all the claims of "polish" and optimisation - Miles frequently refers to working all nighters, all weekends, early starts, and it all sounds very stressed.

Considering how the unpatched iterations of the last few versions (or indeed, the 9.1 release day patch) have all seemed very rushed, I fail to see how the long hours, weekends and early starts point to anything different.

Are we going to be presented with yet another buggy and rushed version upon release day?

I don't understand why - what is the rush to get the game out in October every year? They've already missed the start of the season, they have November and most of December before Christmas - surely they can have an extra month of development without missing the biggest sale time of the year?

Maybe they are working longer hours to eradicate more bugs? At least I suppose they are putting an effort in by working longer hours.

I don't know what happens at SI HQ, so am not able to pass any real judgement.

Maybe it was Polish rather than polish

Perhaps they have been working all nighters/weekends to ensure this isn't a buggy version?

Personally I'm glad the main point of this release has been the idea to polish it up, rather than gimmicky new features.

Maybe they are working longer hours to eradicate more bugs? At least I suppose they are putting an effort in by working longer hours.

I don't know what happens at SI HQ, so am not able to pass any real judgement.

as long as they arent all just sipping coffee laughing at us on the forums for asking when its release/demo/patch is out im happy

Well the thing is, Miles has said "it always becomes this hectic as we get closer to release" (paraphrased) so I don't think anything has particularly changed in that regard, hence my concern.

Im sure SI are very keen to avoid the previous years releases and the negative reception they have received on these boards. I think the working all night is making sure the game is as polished as it can be on release day not that things are still wrong with it.

I think the beta testing team was extended this year so more people may have had eyes on the game meaning more chance of things that slipped through the net last year getting caught before release and not after it.

Im not judging until the demo comes out!

Anyway: You winging Wakers? Never

Well Wakers, have you ever considered they need time to polish off the polishes?

To be fair everytime i read an interview with developers close to the release or going 'gold', 99.9% of them talk of all-nighters, all-weekenders, really pushing hard for release.

I think its normal for all games, some turn out to be bug-ridden disasters, some are pure genius and everything in between.

I dont think you should read that much into it

Early concerns about a game not even released...

...lets face it...game is unplayable until last pacth...sometimes even after last patch (FM08).

For a long time I'm employing this tactics:

Until february I'm just experimenting with new game, without intentions of playing it seriously...and at same time I'm playing previous version of FM. And then, after february, I start to play new game.

yeh that is right ill start to do a long term season in last patch

...lets face it...game is unplayable until last pacth

Unplayable? Absolute nonsense! Put down your crack pipe!

Early concerns about a game not even released...

I know crazy in it my word.Were did some of you get your crystal balls from i would't mind 1

Aslong as League Reputations can change I'll be happy.

Probably best to wait for the demo before making judgement, as speculation at this point is pointless due to you having no idea of the current state of the game. Only SI, SEGA and the testers know what is in store

Well 09 was useless until the last patch, as was 08, so I don't think he was far wrong.

@ dave byrd - yes, hence the thread being called early concerns. What a valuable and insightful post that was.

Well 09 was useless until the last patch, as was 08, so I don't think he was far wrong.

@ dave byrd - yes, hence the thread being called early concerns. What a valuable and insightful post that was.

and what a complete waste of bandwidth your opening post was! Why not at least wait for the demo/full game?! Your reputation of being a whinger is well deserved.

Wakers - every single game released goes through the mental all nighters at the end of the test cycle. You shouldn't read anything into this happening simply because it always happens at every company with every game.

I've personally been involved with all-nighters on 6 different games now, and plan on doing many more in the future.

And now he chimes in with some abuse. GD living up to its reputation - no sensible discussion allowed!

And now he chimes in with some abuse. GD living up to its reputation - no sensible discussion allowed!

Did you expect anything different

And now he chimes in with some abuse. GD living up to its reputation - no sensible discussion allowed!

Abuse? Where?

Sensible discussion? Again, where?

That's enough now dave.

Wakers' points are valid from someone outside of the games industry.

Have a sensible discussion by all means- if it develops into abuse, it will be closed.

That's enough now dave.

Wakers' points are valid from someone outside of the games industry.

Fair play.

There's clearly nothing wrong with the first post, which is asking a couple of sensible questions, which presumably only people who have had some experience in the game industry can answer.

Calling someone a whinger is some form of abuse, by the way, because it is insulting.

There's clearly nothing wrong with the first post, which is asking a couple of sensible questions, which presumably only people who have had some experience in the game industry can answer.

Calling someone a whinger is some form of abuse, by the way, because it is insulting.

Your opening sentence reads: "Yes, I know I have a reputation for what some people would call "whining", i was simply agreeing with you.

Looks like ths thread's getting closed then, along with it a good chance of discussion about what goes on at this stage of development and the hope of allaying some fears.

You've already been told to cut it out, so cut it out.

Does anyone have a decent reason as to why they always rush to release the October deadline?

Wasn't one version of the game released in early November before?

That's enough now dave.

Wakers' points are valid from someone outside of the games industry.

TBF Its not just the games industry that has long days in the run up to a software release. Any company that releases software for 1000's of people to use goes through this stage.

Ok some not as much as others but still.

Lets judge FM 2010 on its own merit. The drawbacks of previous versions should have no bearing on FM 2010, we should look at it with no preconceptions. All we can do is wait and play the demo/game! Then we can make a judgement.

Hey OP, stop being a douchebag.

Sure it was a bit annoying with previous FM's were released glitchy (specifically the one where central defenders couldn't mark and parted like the Red Sea when they saw an opposition striker coming towards them on FM08). But if you can release a multi-million pound project with an incredible amount of data and tweaking to do, i'd like to see you try.

It's people like yourself that will let FM know on the first day it's released the problems and they'll get on to fixing them right away.

If a mod would be so kind as to delete runandjump's posts, as well as dave byrd's, maybe we can bring some sensible discussion to this otherwise silly forum.

You've already been told to cut it out, so cut it out.

Does anyone have a decent reason as to why they always rush to release the October deadline?

Wasn't one version of the game released in early November before?

I do believe it's something to do with money.

Plus what if they did release it in November? They'd then still have a year before FM11 comes out (same number of days between FM08 to FM09). I guess you'd then question the wisdom of a November release and push for a January one?

You've already been told to cut it out, so cut it out.

Does anyone have a decent reason as to why they always rush to release the October deadline?

Wasn't one version of the game released in early November before?

It's not about "rushing" the release, it's about meeting a deadline and smoothing out all the rough edges before it is in a fit state to be sold to the public.

If they casually went in to work each day and left at 5 on the dot then chances are you'd have a game which was of a lower quality than you currently get.

If a mod would be so kind as to delete runandjump's posts, as well as dave byrd's, maybe we can bring some sensible discussion to this otherwise silly forum.

Welcome to the internet. You appear to be new.

No-one is going to agree with you 100% of the time.

There are so many trolls in this forum. I probably should have made this thread in OTF.

I don't expect or want everyone to agree with me, I want to discuss the questions I asked in my opening post. Calling someone a douchebag is not a discussion.

Honestly, as soon as someone posts something that is in the slightest bit negative about FM on this forum, the vigilante brigade comes in with their childish retorts.

Lets discuss - as long as the release the game in time for Christmas, how much money do they really stand to lose? It'd be interesting to see (I'll try and find them) monthly sales figures for FM to see if they pick up again around February.

According to a Danish beta-tester of FM2010, the latest preview-code of FM2010 is said to be THE BEST of the Football Manager series.

Free translation:

"FM2009 had bugs before the release of patches - but while playing FM2010 I've not seen bugs making any influence on the final impression of the game"

You can read the full Danish (use Google to translate) preview here + checking some new screens from FM2010:

http://www.fmfreaks.dk/index.php?action=articles;group_id=14;start=0;article_id=229

Hey OP, stop being a douchebag.

Sure it was a bit annoying with previous FM's were released glitchy (specifically the one where central defenders couldn't mark and parted like the Red Sea when they saw an opposition striker coming towards them on FM08). But if you can release a multi-million pound project with an incredible amount of data and tweaking to do, i'd like to see you try.

It's people like yourself that will let FM know on the first day it's released the problems and they'll get on to fixing them right away.

Please shut up.

Wakers makes some very good points. It's a bit like last year when Miles said he found a couple of bugs while playing an online game a couple of days before it was supposed to go gold (iirc); it's worrying for anyone that hasn't witnessed testing and developing a game. Let's just hope they are doing it, trying to make it perfect, than doing it because there are major problems.

Get back on topic please as this is going nowhere at the moment.

Please shut up.

Wakers makes some very good points. It's a bit like last year when Miles said he found a couple of bugs while playing an online game a couple of days before it was supposed to go gold (iirc); it's worrying for anyone that hasn't witnessed testing and developing a game. Let's just hope they are doing it, trying to make it perfect, than doing it because there are major problems.

Yes - thank you, I remember that too. 09 was tested for months allegedly, yet Miles found some pretty major problems just playing a quick game days before it went gold, which to me explains a lot of the problems we had with 09.

I had forgotten that the number of beta testers had been increased this time around - I applaud SI for that, a wise move that was much needed.

Just as long as there are no crazy activation issues I won’t mind but if there is I won’t buy another FM

If a mod would be so kind as to delete runandjump's posts, as well as dave byrd's, maybe we can bring some sensible discussion to this otherwise silly forum.

Yes, I know I have a reputation for what some people would call "whining". Be open minded with this please.

When FM10 was announced, the key word was "polish". Fantastic, I was utterly delighted.

Now, the last few FMs - 09, 08 and 07 (possibly 06 and 05 too?) have been released with some pretty big problems. Indeed, we know that many people don't consider starting a long term game until the Feb after the game has been released - so that the game is fully patched and most major problems have been addressed.

The last two or three blogs have brought up an issue that makes me question whether or not this release is really going to be all that different, despite all the claims of "polish" and optimisation - Miles frequently refers to working all nighters, all weekends, early starts, and it all sounds very stressed.

Considering how the unpatched iterations of the last few versions (or indeed, the 9.1 release day patch) have all seemed very rushed, I fail to see how the long hours, weekends and early starts point to anything different.

1. Are we going to be presented with yet another buggy and rushed version upon release day?

2.

I don't understand why - what is the rush to get the game out in October every year? They've already missed the start of the season, they have November and most of December before Christmas - surely they can have an extra month of development without missing the biggest sale time of the year?

1. I don't know. You'd have to direct this to S.I. to get an answer to that, i doubt many of the regular members on here can tell you with any degree of certainty, unless they're testers, therefore potentially employed by S.I. (or at least on secondment to S.I.) therefore are likely bound by a confidentiality clause and won't be able to divulge much, certainly nothing along the lines of "Yeah, the game's **** mate, don't buy it".

2. Again, no-one on here is likely to be able to answer this. S.I. know their release date, they set it afterall. They've probably known that this will be the release date since they started working on FM10. I very much doubt an extra month of time will really make any difference. Given they likely started working on FM10 as soon as FM09 was on the shelves. So no, in my opinion, i don't think an extra month will really help.

There, i've answered your questions in your original post.

Just as long as there are no crazy activation issues I won’t mind but if there is I won’t buy another FM

If you buy the boxed version of FM10 there is no activation required.

Nothing has been announced about the activation procedure or DRM or copy protection for FM10 yet, has it?

Nothing has been announced about the activation procedure or DRM or copy protection for FM10 yet, has it?

Yeah, there's a sticky at the top of the forum.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=150248

Lets discuss - as long as the release the game in time for Christmas, how much money do they really stand to lose? It'd be interesting to see (I'll try and find them) monthly sales figures for FM to see if they pick up again around February.

That is a question for SEGA. SI have to meet a deadline which is set by the publisher.

But personally I don't think it would make much difference if they were given a few extra months, unless of course it was specifically for testing and bug fixing. But then you'd have employees sat around doing nothing while the coders fixed the bugs, so it would't make sense.

Instead, every area of FM is worked on up until the end of development and then goes goes, and testing is done throughout the entire process and bugs are continuously being fixed while new features are added. It then goes to SEGA for final testing before given the green light.

It's not quite as black and white as you may think

Perhaps the op would like them to work 5 hour days instead of pulling all nighters. I'm sure that would make the game better.

As fir the release date. It's common in life fir targets to be set. This is no doubt a realistic target but as you get closer to it you work harder You go the extra mile

Aslong as League Reputations can change I'll be happy.

Miles said FM2010 announcements that League Reputations are static and perhaps it will be dynamic in FM2011 in hopes but most it will be in FM2012.

Anyway, I really don't know if it is best or not, because most of the most expected games are due to release in November and December in time for Christmas. Since with economic crisis there is not enough money for all games or it is marketing thing.

I do believe it's something to do with money.

Plus what if they did release it in November? They'd then still have a year before FM11 comes out (same number of days between FM08 to FM09). I guess you'd then question the wisdom of a November release and push for a January one?

Maybe the FM series has become too big for its own good? If 12 months (ok I know they work on the patches) is not enough time then how long is? The end of October time seems fine and has been so for a long time. Maybe a later date would be better but like Dave byrd said it would still be 12 months between games.

However Miles said that there were ideas for FM 2010 and other versions that could not go in due to time restrictions, so its not as if with each new release SI have to start from scratch. They may already know 50% what is going to be in FM2011 and may have nearly implmented it into FM2110, therfore it just needs to be impemented and smoothed round the edges and should not take a great deal of time.