TRAINING in 3D Match view??!

In CM10 (scared to speak the name!), they had drill training (in their 3D match view) as you obviously know (and sorry if this has been covered before) but will we see the training in FM10 in the 3D match engine? This way it feels like your players are actually training! more of a peace of mind this way!

What's the point?

In CM it seems to be like training is a levelling up process (ie do some sprints for a +1 bonus to pace).

In FM it's all about shaping the attributes of each player, and I just don't see why viewing it would be anything other than an uneccessary complication.

I doubt anyone will actually watch the CM training more than a dozen times.

FFS man think before you ask for a new feauture what will be the point serouisly why would you waste your time watching your players train jeez man

so you watch your players train in 3d they passs to each other kick a ball practise defending waste of time watching and will have lots of bugs

SO NO i would not like this stupid feature to be in fm 10

the normal training is fine in fm .... you can view their preformances in your home page when you add it on and see their improvements in a line graph which is better then wasting time watching them pass the ball aroound ect

FFS man think before you ask for a new feauture what will be the point serouisly why would you waste your time watching your players train jeez man

so you watch your players train in 3d they passs to each other kick a ball practise defending waste of time watching and will have lots of bugs

SO NO i would not like this stupid feature to be in fm 10

the normal training is fine in fm ....

touche! yea now i think back it is pointless ! i didnt think about Bugs either!

touche! yea now i think back it is pointless ! i didnt think about Bugs either!

SPARTA!!!!!!!!

SPARTA!!!!!!!!

ha ha ha ha ha ha

training can be a bit of a chore in Fm. I haven't played CM so i dont know how it works on there, but it shouldn't be something thats dismissed and shot down in flames. There is scope for training to be improved in FM rather then just moving sliders which is how it can feel at times. 3d is an idea could be something which may be a way to goto perhaps to watch drills and something, Its hard to see how it could be implemented but if it can and is useful and exciting to use then i wouldn't mind seeint it.

but then again the thing about the training sliders, it may feel a bit detached at times, but it works and it works well. There isnt one formula to how it works, its flexible and there isnt a super-training schedule where if you set it right you get ridiculous improvements to players and all of a sudden find your middle-aged declining average player all of a sudden has 18-20 for all his stats.

mate you think the fm 10 3d match engine will be able to do training drills just imagine it happening going to attend training and watchig them move left and righ from cone to cone and doing trangle passes you watch it then training finishes then what.

what do you gain watching them train

How often would you watch a feature that shows you 25 players running lengths for 2 minutes?

training can be a bit of a chore in Fm. I haven't played CM so i dont know how it works on there, but it shouldn't be something thats dismissed and shot down in flames. There is scope for training to be improved in FM rather then just moving sliders which is how it can feel at times. 3d is an idea could be something which may be a way to goto perhaps to watch drills and something, Its hard to see how it could be implemented but if it can and is useful and exciting to use then i wouldn't mind seeint it.

but then again the thing about the training sliders, it may feel a bit detached at times, but it works and it works well. There isnt one formula to how it works, its flexible and there isnt a super-training schedule where if you set it right you get ridiculous improvements to players and all of a sudden find your middle-aged declining average player all of a sudden has 18-20 for all his stats.

How is it a chore?

Once you have your schedules set you just leave them.

Players getting first team experience = improvement, Training schedule = shape of that improvement.

I would agree it could be improved and I think SI have it down to review, maybe for the next version (FM11). However going back to having to set different types of training for each day is not the answer and neither is watching training in 3D which would become boring very quickly.

what im saying is what do you gain man from watching them train.watching them move around for a certain amount of time is it exciting ? will it give you a medal what ...

and do not saying having 3d training will be a enjoyable feature to watch because it will be borning

FFS man think before you ask for a new feauture what will be the point serouisly why would you waste your time watching your players train jeez man

so you watch your players train in 3d they passs to each other kick a ball practise defending waste of time watching and will have lots of bugs

SO NO i would not like this stupid feature to be in fm 10

the normal training is fine in fm .... you can view their preformances in your home page when you add it on and see their improvements in a line graph which is better then wasting time watching them pass the ball aroound ect

Shut up. That's the exact reason GD is getting worse; people jump on other people when they don't like their idea. It's okay to post your opinion, but there is absolutely no need for the 'ffs' 'jeez'. It's a forum, let there be discussion.

And I would not want/use a 3D training view, simply because it would get very repetitive very quickly. The drills in CM are very simple and after seeing your player spanner it wide for the 2nd time, it gets pretty dull. I'd much prefer the training to do be done behind the scenes until an adequate and fresh idea comes along for it to develop.

Shut up. That's the exact reason GD is getting worse; people jump on other people when they don't like their idea. It's okay to post your opinion, but there is absolutely no need for the 'ffs' 'jeez'. It's a forum, let there be discussion.

And I would not want/use a 3D training view, simply because it would get very repetitive very quickly. The drills in CM are very simple and after seeing your player spanner it wide for the 2nd time, it gets pretty dull. I'd much prefer the training to do be done behind the scenes until an adequate and fresh idea comes along for it to develop.

.. i know what i said was not needed and rude ..... and im sorry for that extreamly foolish of me

i dont mean it towards the person i just saw what i was thinking of i didnt want to hurt somones feelings by the opionin they was saying thats the last thing i wanted

and i was taking it out on cm becusae i extreamly hate the game and seeing them bring a feauture like that and fans still likeing cm for being more crap then fm (everyone likes different games i understand that not everyone has to like the same game we are alll different minds ) over fm gets me angry so i was not saying jeez and stuff to bassistuks

i was saying at the feature being so bad so if you thought i was getting agnry at somones opinion even tho he quoted that cm 2010 made this feature so technolly why should i get angry at him even tho he didnt think of the feature he got it from another game ..

Having CM10 my personal feelings are that some drills ARE interesting to watch and can help you enormously whereas others are dull and unwatchable. For example, in CM10 you can have a practice match where you square off a Team A versus a Team B. This is a good feature as it allows you to see how certain members of your team will interact with each other. More particularly, you can see areas where strength is evident or weaknesses need to be addressed. If you wish to try out, say, a more speedy defence who will push forward and support the wings, CM10's training feature allows you to actually SEE how that would pan out in a match before you commit to the tactic. Therefore, you can get an idea about how your tactics will be implemented by your players in an actual match. There are other training ideas in CM10 like having an attack v defence where you can see, without having to power up an entire training match, just how your team work in certain attacking or defensive formations/positions. The shooting drill is a superb feature too, just watching how your strikers manage one on ones or deal with crosses, and even being able to choose if they use their stronger or weaker foot in the drill is very nifty - and the idea that their finishing or long shooting attributes might increase as you do it gives an added incentive to play out the drill. Of course, the idea of watching your players do 'cone' or running drills seems daft, but it never hurts to get an idea of a certain player's agility or speed before a big game! I can see why people might be turned off to the idea of taking the time to SEE how your players cope in various situations, as opposed to just having a training report stating 'Player X made good use of the wings with his pace' etc., but to be honest, I like the idea of watching your squad go about its training regimes. If nothing else, it adds a deeper layer of authenticity to a game that strives for perfect simulation of the managerial routine. In conclusion, I would be more than happy to see the FM franchise experiment with CM's idea.

Very boring. Very quickly.

ffs man think before you ask for a new feauture what will be the point serouisly why would you waste your time watching your players train jeez man

so you watch your players train in 3d they passs to each other kick a ball practise defending waste of time watching and will have lots of bugs

so no i would not like this stupid feature to be in fm 10

the normal training is fine in fm .... You can view their preformances in your home page when you add it on and see their improvements in a line graph which is better then wasting time watching them pass the ball aroound ect

nerdrageeeeeeeeeee.

CM10 actually got a few things right in the training area. While the X% chance of improvement bit is useless, it's infinitely useful to actually see how your players perform certain tasks like shooting or set pieces.

The biggest problem with CM10 is the match engine, though, which also affects your training and set pieces. The problem with the ME is that they act like drunken FIFA players, making awful passes, forgetting to take the ball with them, run straight into opposing players instead of around them etc.

In a proper ME, it would be one of the greatest tools a manager can have. Imagine actually testing your set piece takers, shaping their movement patterns, passes etc. If the CM ME wasn't so damn unreliable, it would have added a completely new dimension to the game, instead of simply boring sliders and a monthly report saying "Player X did well/sucked balls".

It's a core area of the game that sorely needs an update, especially since you could actually do these things (although not necessarily see them) 10 years ago.

Training is just about perfect in FM2009. Set it up and then you don't have to babysit it. Having to actively micromanage it would be an absolute nightmare.

Zinn is spot on.

Duerfian, it isn't about 'micromanagement' at all - it's about seeing how your team operate in different situations.

I trust that all the people criticising the idea have actually tried it out in CM10 to see how the system operates otherwise your criticism is meaningless and probably just born out othe aggravation FMers seem to feel for CM. How can you criticise something you haven't tried? A football management sim is supposed to reflect real life as accurately as possible - training is at the CORE of any football team whether they're good or bad, so the idea of it not having a firmer, more hands-on role in a management sim is ridiculous.

I tried out the demo, and spent a couple of hours running the training drills. I didn't run a training match as I thought it would take too long and just wanted a general feel of the game. What I found was astonishingly bad for the 3d view, for instance I set up a shooting drill for the team with the bal set to favourite foot, fully 3/4 of the shots were balls hit with the outside of the off foot which went towards the corner flag and then curled back wickedly to the goal, a feat which would be nigh on impossible IRL. From what I saw you would have to spend 3-4 hours per in game week on the training drills just to see a return on investment for running them, and the drills are an integral part of the improve the player side of the game. For me spending that much time on training is a waste, I much prefer hiring the coaches setting up the schedules, allocating jobs for coaches and players and then just leaving it alone. It is a game not a job.

Zinn is spot on.

Duerfian, it isn't about 'micromanagement' at all - it's about seeing how your team operate in different situations.

I trust that all the people criticising the idea have actually tried it out in CM10 to see how the system operates otherwise your criticism is meaningless and probably just born out othe aggravation FMers seem to feel for CM. How can you criticise something you haven't tried? A football management sim is supposed to reflect real life as accurately as possible - training is at the CORE of any football team whether they're good or bad, so the idea of it not having a firmer, more hands-on role in a management sim is ridiculous.

We can critise an idea without playing CM, we can't criticise CM's training if we haven't tried it - There is a subtle difference.

Watching players train (drills) is rubbish and will quickly become boring.

However practise matches to try tactics are a good idea.

I suspect the other descriptions (Attack vs Defence for example) FMers weren't aware of and depending on how they fit in with the ME could be a good idea although how different are they from a practise match.

Brian: the demo was bug-ridden and a poor point to judge the training on, but I'm pleased you can judge with some experience. And yes it is just a game, but 'simulation' style games do try to transcend the game/reality line as much as possible I feel.

Cougar: agree with the majority of what you say, except that the drills do have benefits as I've explained, e.g. you may have a creative midfielder who you are thinking of pitting against an opposition DM and you want to see if your player's agility will give him a good chance of getting past him regularly, then a drill to assess agility will help you a lot.

I tend to make judgements on how I SEE a player perform rather than make decisions based on stats and sheets with someone telling me a player is good. Stats are a BAD, UNRELIABLE thing.

As a kid, I got three meals a day. Oatmeal, miss-a-meal and no meal.

Cut out this type of rubbish now

It could perhaps be useful if you wanted to use it to watch your players practicing free-kicks, or corners, or even penalties/long-throws at a push, to get a sense of who'd be the best taker from various positions. And it could be useful for seeing where players would be positioned at those set-pieces as well, with the different settings.

And I don't see the harm in watching the odd practice match to try out different tactics.

I'm struggling to think of much else, but it's not a completely daft idea.

It'd be even more relevant and useful if the attribute numbers were made less precise and replaced with very poor/poor/average/good/excellent, of course

It's a double-edged sword, even ignoring the obvious problems it would give to the programmers.

The Good

As said by others, taking a closer look to how players work in given situations can be interesting and definitely useful.

Seeing a player in action in a non-competitive environment could prevent you from finding out the (sad) truth the hard way, i.e. losing a match due to a wrong judgment.

But on the other hands, training sessions would become insanely time consuming, bringing the "this is not a game, this is a full-time job" feeling to new heights... and I'm not sure this is a good thing.

Last but not least, if potential attributes will hit a plateau, depending on the maximum CA/PA, wouldn't it be ultimetely a tad pointless spending hours of shooting drills when our striker has already reached the highest value he could reach?

I'd find it a bit too involved but sounds useful if people would go this in depth?

Obviously not watching people dribble between cones or lift weights.

But what if you set your players instructions - then were able to put your attacking players up against a defence. So if you are Barca you may have Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Henry & Ibra against the back 4 & Toure. The defenders play using your instructions, so do your attackers.

Say you've just been battered by Arsenal, you can set your attackers to play a quick, short passing style and try out some different tactics for your defenders.

Or something.

The Good

"training sessions would become insanely time consuming, bringing the "this is not a game, this is a full-time job" feeling to new heights... and I'm not sure this is a good thing."

O.k so CM10 is a footie sim and FM10 is a footie game, thats more or less what most FM fans are saying, but FM users the none biased ones are saying it might not be a bad thing to try,

while waiting for FM10 i decided to got CM10 as it was only 3 quid, and altho the game is rough around the edges, trust me its a weak FM wannabe 7 out of 10 at most, but the training is great and for a first try its not bad and I for one would prefer a footie manager SIM then a GAME so FM SHOULD get on this, it works and imagine what it will be like 3 games down the line, i set up some brill set piece routines thats brought some great goals and seeing them work in a match or in the last minute of a game, i FEEL like a manager, if you want a footie manager GAME go and get fifa manager,

just my thoughts

The Good

"training sessions would become insanely time consuming, bringing the "this is not a game, this is a full-time job" feeling to new heights... and I'm not sure this is a good thing."

O.k so CM10 is a footie sim and FM10 is a footie game, thats more or less what most FM fans are saying, but FM users the none biased ones are saying it might not be a bad thing to try,

while waiting for FM10 i decided to got CM10 as it was only 3 quid, and altho the game is rough around the edges, trust me its a weak FM wannabe 7 out of 10 at most, but the training is great and for a first try its not bad and I for one would prefer a footie manager SIM then a GAME so FM SHOULD get on this, it works and imagine what it will be like 3 games down the line, i set up some brill set piece routines thats brought some great goals and seeing them work in a match or in the last minute of a game, i FEEL like a manager, if you want a footie manager GAME go and get fifa manager,

just my thoughts

i totally agre with what you're saying! CM does feel like playing with a child's claydo compared to FM but the training alone seems very robust! its not enough to steer me away from FM but for the first time i actually ENJOYED training my players!

I would get bored after a season seeing 3D characters train... when i could be playing FM & COD4 at the sametime

There's a workable idea in there, but I dont think watching your players run laps in 3d is it.

How about the opportunity the opportunity to run a couple of 7 a side matches as training each week. You would have the option of:

* who plays on what side - see which partnerships work well together

* stipulate what rules were in place - such as no tackling to prevent injuries to players

* rolling subs

* Manager can force penalties or free kicks

* overloading defenders or attackers (increasing numbers on one team)

You would then have the option of running the session yourself or leaving them to your assistant. If you were running them you could watch like a normal match (intervening where you wanted), if your assistant was told to run them you would just get a feedback report from you Assistant.

i.e.

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Individual comments

Walcott struggled to find the net. - 22 attempts on goal, scored 3

Van Persie was particularily dangerous from free kicks - 10 free kicks taken, scored direct from 4, 2 played to another player to score, 2 were scored on the rebound, missed the target with 2.

Partnerships

Vermaelen and Gallas seemed to have a good understanding of each others positioning.

Eduardo and Bendtner seem to have a good understand of each others timing of runs.

Players recovering from injury

Rosicky looked good for the first 50 minutes, but then started to fade - Could be used as an impact player off the bench

Attitude to training

Senderos consistantly ignored my rule of no tackling, on a few occaisions was lucky not to injur his team mates

Wilshere looked top class, did not look out of place amongst the first teamers.

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Waste of time and resources IMO.

I'd find it a bit too involved but sounds useful if people would go this in depth?

Obviously not watching people dribble between cones or lift weights.

But what if you set your players instructions - then were able to put your attacking players up against a defence. So if you are Barca you may have Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Henry & Ibra against the back 4 & Toure. The defenders play using your instructions, so do your attackers.

Say you've just been battered by Arsenal, you can set your attackers to play a quick, short passing style and try out some different tactics for your defenders.

Or something.

This is a good idea.

Obviously it could be the managers choice to view training. If they can allow us to set up something like what JB suggests it'd be a very good addition.

It surprises me there is no mention or reference to TactX so far.

Fm is based on reality and realism is the philosophy.

So ask yourself what a manager is doing during the training session :

- planning training matches ( not existing in FM )

- planning individual training ( already existing )

- getting detailed report everyday in each area ( not existing in Fm )

- specific set-pieces group training ( not existing )

- some "goal" to reach for each player in each area ( not existing )

- speak to players, their performance of the day, advices ( not existing )

So many improvements should be done to improve the system but for that you don't need necessary 3D matches for the moment, detailed report for each player, group, could be replaced ( for each area ).

The shooting drill is a superb feature too, just watching how your strikers manage one on ones or deal with crosses, and even being able to choose if they use their stronger or weaker foot in the drill is very nifty - and the idea that their finishing or long shooting attributes might increase as you do it gives an added incentive to play out the drill.

What is the usefulness of this? How does "watching your strikers manage one on ones" help you decide which player should be picked for a match?

(1) CM10 actually got a few things right in the training area. While the X% chance of improvement bit is useless, it's infinitely useful to actually see how your players perform certain tasks like shooting or set pieces.

(2) It's a core area of the game that sorely needs an update, especially since you could actually do these things (although not necessarily see them) 10 years ago.

1)How is it infinitely useful? What kind of information would you obtain from watching them shoot at goal that you don't already possess (bearing in mind that you watch them shoot during matches all the time).

2) You could never do this. If you're referring to the previous iterations where you could assign different training "games" you are mistaken as it worked in the exact same way as FM09 (except it was more convoluted).

...you want to see if your player's agility will give him a good chance of getting past him regularly, then a drill to assess agility will help you a lot.

Uhm, you could do that, or you could just check his agility attribute.

Training should be left to its current format- ie set it up once and let it go

But practising situations on the other hand can be very useful- from corner instrustions to formation A vs formation B and so on.

During your game you will rarely need it until you have a change in personnel- this might require a different shape or different set-piece instructions.

If you set up a certain corner instruction and you dont score in the next match using this- you still dont know if it is good or not. It may take 10-20 games to assess properly. But on the other hand, if you were able to practise and watch 10 times in a row- then you will know whether to keep the instructions or discard them.

nni: but as you should know, stats aren't everything. You could buy a player with really good stats on paper, but he plays like a cretin for your team. So even if someone's agility rating is high, I'd rather trust my own instincts on how their agility appears to ME in a training environment. And as for checking out how your strikers are managing goal opportunities - CM10 gives you plenty of options for seeing what position your striker best shoots from, which foot, whether he's good aerially etc. Once again, I don't trust staring at stats to give me the answers - if football management sims were stats-entirely games then they would play as a mere mathematics problem for you to solve as best you can. What manager in real life looks at his squad and says 'oh yeah, I'll give player X a 7/10 for his agility' therefore I'll use him 'cos he ain't 'arf bad'? A manager observes his players in training and in competitive matches continuously - that's how I also like to make my decisions in-game.

As everyone knows- there will be a new tactical wizard coming out soon- with all the preset formations set up according to theories based on TT&F.

Now if you play as an English team you will most likely come up against 442 and 451 quite regulary but what happens if you meet Roma in the champions league and they are fielding the dreaded 460?

Being able to set up practice matches to find formations and tactics to combat this would be extremey helpfull.

There's a workable idea in there, but I dont think watching your players run laps in 3d is it.

How about the opportunity the opportunity to run a couple of 7 a side matches as training each week. You would have the option of:

* who plays on what side - see which partnerships work well together

* stipulate what rules were in place - such as no tackling to prevent injuries to players

* rolling subs

* Manager can force penalties or free kicks

* overloading defenders or attackers (increasing numbers on one team)

You would then have the option of running the session yourself or leaving them to your assistant. If you were running them you could watch like a normal match (intervening where you wanted), if your assistant was told to run them you would just get a feedback report from you Assistant.

i.e.

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Individual comments

Walcott struggled to find the net. - 22 attempts on goal, scored 3

Van Persie was particularily dangerous from free kicks - 10 free kicks taken, scored direct from 4, 2 played to another player to score, 2 were scored on the rebound, missed the target with 2.

Partnerships

Vermaelen and Gallas seemed to have a good understanding of each others positioning.

Eduardo and Bendtner seem to have a good understand of each others timing of runs.

Players recovering from injury

Rosicky looked good for the first 50 minutes, but then started to fade - Could be used as an impact player off the bench

Attitude to training

Senderos consistantly ignored my rule of no tackling, on a few occaisions was lucky not to injur his team mates

Wilshere looked top class, did not look out of place amongst the first teamers.

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I agree this would be a great way of training ur players

Once again, I don't trust staring at stats to give me the answers - if football management sims were stats-entirely games then they would play as a mere mathematics problem for you to solve as best you can. What manager in real life looks at his squad and says 'oh yeah, I'll give player X a 7/10 for his agility' therefore I'll use him 'cos he ain't 'arf bad'? A manager observes his players in training and in competitive matches continuously - that's how I also like to make my decisions in-game.

Well, FM is about stats. It is essentially a simulation model with many many variables and stochasticity (randomness) thrown in for good measure. What you are doing when you play is to manipulate the model so that you get the best results possible. A real life manager doesn't have a spreadsheet with his players attributes. However this is a game and it simulates a managers knowledge of his players by providing you with their attributes. So instead of observing your players for weeks on end, you get a summary of their attributes. A player's behaviour and ability is determined by his attributes (including hidden). If a player has 18 for agility then he is more agile than a player that has 10 for agility. Full stop.

nni: Well obviously on paper a person with agility 18 is more agile than a guy with 10, but there are other variables involved which training can help you out with. Form for example will be important - training would show you how well they are playing. Other stats too will affect agility e.g. speed and strength, so training would give you a better idea of how likely your tiny agile player or bulkier agile player will fair against the players they'll be up against in the next match. So, if you have a guy with agility 18, high speed, but zero muscle versus a guy with agility 10, lower speed, but big muscle then you WILL have a decision to make that training can resolve. If you put agi 18 guy up against a slower, bulkier guy in training then you're hoping they can weave past quite mesmerically but they might find it difficult if that guy is particularly good at muscling weedy players off the ball. If you then place agi 10 guy up against him, he may be able to weave the ball not as smoothly around him BUT be able to hold him off with his own strength as he performs his little agile movements - you see? Then you may want to choose the lower stat guy because he'll be more suited to the role you want even though he has lower agility. This is what I mean when I say stand-alone stats aren't everything. FM, yes, is driven by statistics, but to see how a player rolls all of those statistics together you need to WATCH them play, and then take into account variables like fitness, form, morale etc. That is when it becomes far more complex and you need to take a direct look at the situation yourself, rather than just referring to their stats page and taking an altogetehr more hands-off approach.

Form, fitness and morale are all stats that you can check without needing to see them play. The rest of your circular and convoluted argument was just about understanding which attributes are needed for which roles.

It seems to me that the people who are supportive of 3D-viewing of training are in the core just requesting an improved/expanded training module. Back in the old days of CM4, you could design your own traning schedules (does anyone know why that was replaced by sliders in the first place?) which in my opinion was very fun to do and felt really 'like football'.

Making certain elements of the old CM4 training module, like 'shadow play' and 'practice match', visible (in 3D, or 2D for that matter) could have definitely some added value to the game, certainly for those who want to tweak their tactics and don't want to be restricted to friendlies and competitive matches to do so. Shadow play, practice matches and attack vs. defence (which has the added value that the players you want to see attacking do not have to see the ball sit on the other end of the pitch half of the game) are considered a vital part of football training by (continental) managers (Sacchi, Prandelli, Van Gaal to name some) to establish certain routines in their squads.

I would definitely be looking forward to a revamped training module by which you could devise your own training schemes (or leave this to your ass man if you can't be bothered) and when you reach the day in the week you have planned the shadow play/practice match/attack vs. defense, a message will pop up asking you if you want to attend it or leave it to the ass man. If you choose to attend, it will bring up to the training screen where you can set up the specific details you want to train on and which players you want to experiment with and then you will proceed to the 3d/2d match view. If you have migraine that day and you are willing to leave the training ground early, you can choose not to attend training and you will get a nice message of your ass man the next morning along the lines Theosofical has set out above.

It would make training like so many things in FM nowadays: if you are not bothered about training, you can just leave it to the ass man, if you really want to get involved, you will be able to have full control. At the moment, training is more of a black box and has nothing to do with real life football. I really don't understand why training should be of less importance during the period in between matches than something like press conferences.

Can't be arsed to read, but the explanation for the CM system is for you to be able to view whether a lack of fitness (say someone at 80% vs someone at 100%) is making a difference or not. Some players are still better at 80% than their substitute replacements at 100%, for example. The 3d view lets you see hwo that's going.

What is the usefulness of this? How does "watching your strikers manage one on ones" help you decide which player should be picked for a match?

1)How is it infinitely useful? What kind of information would you obtain from watching them shoot at goal that you don't already possess (bearing in mind that you watch them shoot during matches all the time).

2) You could never do this. If you're referring to the previous iterations where you could assign different training "games" you are mistaken as it worked in the exact same way as FM09 (except it was more convoluted).

Uhm, you could do that, or you could just check his agility attribute.

As hard as it may seem to believe, FM/CM are not the only manager games around and certainly not 10 years ago. Load up USM 98 for being able to set highly detailed schedule, training matches etc for your team. It is rather simplistic due to its age, but certainly more detailed than many things today. All you have today are a few sliders that tell you nothing about how your training works. You get a report once in a while saying "these 3 did well and these 3 suck" but nothing on why they suck, how to improve it or anything like that.

And you'll see if they actually hit the target. I know it's hard to try new things for some people but it actually IS useful. Especially since stats are inaccurate and don't actually give you any info about their actual shot percentage etc. Composure gives you a rough idea but can be fairly useless as far as predictions go (otherwise, no one with less than 15 would score regularly). And the point of training is figuring out which players are good and which players suck BEFORE the season begins properly. If you're 10 games in, you're going to wait months before buying new ones.

The best part about this is that is is extremely simple to implement, since the ME is already in place. CM's failed because the ME is useless but you could still learn a lot.

Also, do read the entire thread and posts before posting foolish statements. What is so scary about doing this? It is not something that takes long to make, since it is largely dependant on the ME, so it's not a time issue. Just sounds like the typical "I don't want anything done to my preciouuuuuuuussssss..." whine.

nni: fair enough, but on the day cannot a very high end statistics player play abysmally, and cannot a low end player perform much better? The idea of watching 3d training would give you a much clearer idea of what player is worth selecting from the 'variables' point of view. Are you trying to tell me that you'd, in a contest of strength, pit a str 13 player against a str 11 player EVERY time? There are so many things to take into consideration and statistics can only go so far in telling you what you need to know. Playing a game of statistics is a. dull b. unrealistic to simulating football management c. lazy and d. arrogant. If statistics counted for everything then how come you could get, say, a Championship team beating Man United? Man U players all have higher statistics than any given Championshiop team, yet it is possible for Champ players to win one on ones with Man U players and get a result. If statistics ARE the be all and end all, then how would you explain that m'laddio? The simple fact is, there are variables that can only be deciphered by watching a player on the pitch, not just staring lazily at a page with numbers ranging between 1 and 20...

If statistics ARE the be all and end all, then how would you explain that m'laddio? .

Well, the 'players' in the match engine make their moves based on their stats, the instructions you give them and some stochastic formula (meaning there is chance involved, a player with 20 heading/20 jumping will have more CHANCE to win an aerial challenge with a 16/16 heading player, but not necesarrily does so). So, there is always the chance a player will do something different the next time he comes in a similar situation, no matter how many times you watch him play in training or matches. (Well, if you would watch him 100,000 times perform the same exact move on the same exact position on the ME field with his team mates and opponents in exactly the same spot, you might get an idea )

I agree with you, though, that watching matches can be useful to get the genereal idea how a player plays in the ME, simply beacuse there are so many stats involved, and there are so many interrelations, that it becomes quite hard to predict how a player will play by merely looking at the stats.

Tactics and player instructions, on the other hand, seem to be more rigidly impemented than single player performances (less subjective to chance, that is) and IMHO it would definitely be nice to see how changes in slider settings might work out, without having to concede 4 goals in 4 minutes in an official match. 3D training matches would be perfect for that (yay, back on topic!).