Has the 'subsituted player bug' been fixed yet?

I just wondered whether this bug had been fixed yet? I was assured it would be before the first patch last year, and after 3 patches it never ended up getting fixed!

Basically, you know how the whole team regains about 10% condition at the end of a match? For example, let's say this are the team's fitness on 90 minutes, with injury time still to play:

Carrizo - 90%

Srna- 79%

Fazio- 90%

Sakho- 90%

Bale- 85%

Ronaldo- 72%

Moutinho- 82%

Veloso- 72%

Silva- 72%

Torres- 84%

Vela- 78%

And let's say you subbed off, Bale, Moutinho and Torres with 30 minutes to play.

The conditions after full-time, when you are giving your team talk look like this:

Carizzo- 100%

Srna- 88%

Fazio- 99%

Sakho- 99%

Bale- 85%

Ronaldo 81%

Moutinho- 82%

Veloso- 81%

Silva- 81%

Torres- 84%

Vela- 87%

As you can see, the players you rest end up on about the same condition as those in the same positions who played the full 90. When really, the players you subbed off, should look something like this, if they got the same condition boost at full-time as the players who played the full 90:

Bale- 94%

Moutinho- 91%

Torres- 93%

Why does everyone regain around 10% condition immediately after the final whistle, except the players you subbed off? In past FMs, every single player would regain condition, not just the ones who played the whole match. This sort of defeats the object of subbing players off to rest them, as they can end up on the same, or even less condition at the end of the match, than those who played the full 90. It means there is no real benefit to subbing players. SI basically admitted this was a bug before the first patch last year and said it was getting fixed, but it never did. Really hope this has been sorted out for this years game.

didnt know that was a bug, that would have explained why the usual players that i subbed off always seemed to have lower condition!

would be interested to hear what SI say tho?

i didn't know this was a bug either, although i guess you might still sub a player off so they don't get injured but it is very inconveinient if they don't gain as much condition. I hope this gets cleared up by SI.

I didnt know this was a bug either, makes a lot of sense though.

I have a left winger that is my star player (and my only left sided attacking player) and in my push for promotion I have been pretty much forced to play him consistantly, so I have been subbing him as soon as I have the result in the bag normally around 70 minute mark, but found he was still the only one of my players that was feeling the effects of playing every 3 days (damn BSP fixture lists) despite playing 20 minutes less than everyone else each match. So this explains it, thanks I'll probably just keep him on and get him to take it easy for the last 20 minutes and get the free 10% bonus to condition.

Agreed

If I sub a player to rest him, it must not have an adverse effect

This was the response from SI when I posted a thread about this issue last November (before the first patch):

This is a known issue and there are loads of threads about it. The issue is under review internally, thanks

But it never did get fixed, after 3 patches! Here's the thread I'm talking about:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=1940836#post1940836

Can anyone from SI confirm whether this bug has been fixed yet please? It's really frustrating to sub off a player after an hour with the intention of resting them, only for it not to make any real difference, because of the reasons outlined in my OP.

Exactly, it totally defeats the object of resting your star players, as the end up on the same condition or slightly less than those who have played the full 90! What I have worked out is that it's almost better letting players play the full game than trying to sub them off early and resting them.

If you sub them off after the 70th minute for example, they will definitely end the game with a lower condition than those in the same position who play the full 90. This means I often leave players on, who I want to sub off because they are on a low rating (like 6.0). I end up not subbing them though, because I don't want them to be on a lower condition for the next match 3 days later, than they would be if they played the full 90 and got the end of game condition boost.

I didnt know this was a bug either, makes a lot of sense though.

I have a left winger that is my star player (and my only left sided attacking player) and in my push for promotion I have been pretty much forced to play him consistantly, so I have been subbing him as soon as I have the result in the bag normally around 70 minute mark, but found he was still the only one of my players that was feeling the effects of playing every 3 days (damn BSP fixture lists) despite playing 20 minutes less than everyone else each match. So this explains it, thanks I'll probably just keep him on and get him to take it easy for the last 20 minutes and get the free 10% bonus to condition.

I'd never noticed this before but it explains why my young wingers are always so tired.

Can it be used in reverse to our advantage? Could I bring on a tired player in the last few minutes so he gains in condition?

I'd never noticed this before but it explains why my young wingers are always so tired.

Can it be used in reverse to our advantage? Could I bring on a tired player in the last few minutes so he gains in condition?

haha, your brain is like built for foorball manager.

No, it can't be used to your advantage, although, whoever finishes the game does get the condition boost. Players who you sub ON get it, but players who you sub OFF don't get it. Basically only those still on the pitch as the final whistle goes get the 9-10% condition boost, which again, makes trying to rest your stars early in games pretty pointless.

Let's say you bring on a player who is on 88%, and he drops to 82% for the time he is on the pitch. At full time, he will only go back up to 88, ie, the conditon boost is usually 9-10%,but it can't go above what they were on when you subbed them on. If you bring on a player whos on 88 and he drops to 78/79 though by just before full time, then you will still get the full condition boost. You just can't boost your players you bring on up to a condition level above what they started on.

I'd never noticed this before but it explains why my young wingers are always so tired.

Can it be used in reverse to our advantage? Could I bring on a tired player in the last few minutes so he gains in condition?

Here's another way of illustrating the point:

It's the 90th minute, 2 minutes of injury time, I'm 1-0 up, I want to make a sub to kill time.

Ronaldo- 72%

Silva- 72%

So i take off Ronaldo with 1 minute to play, then at full time:

Ronaldo- 72%

Silva- 81%

So, for taking a player off 1 minute before full-time, he is now 9% below a player who was on exactly the same condition as him, because he didn't get the end-game condition boost. This adversely affects his condition for the next game, whereas if I simply didn't make that sub, he'd have an extra 9-10% condition. Sub a player at your peril!

I didn't know that this was a bug!

subbing torres at all surely counts

Wow. And I never noticed this before. And antpocoypsrnow saying their are loads of threads about this. I didn't notice one. Good spot though.

I'd never noticed this before but it explains why my young wingers are always so tired.

Can it be used in reverse to our advantage? Could I bring on a tired player in the last few minutes so he gains in condition?

Completely agreed. I was always wondering too why my wingers (who tire the most and thus get subbed often) never fully recover to 100% unlike others although being rested so regularly

Knowing this now, I'm sure that it can be used to our advantage as well. Would help getting injured star players back to full fitness quicker

(see SI, now that a bug has turned into a cheat, you should do something about it! )

Can anyone from SI please confirm whether this bug has been fixed for FM10?

Good Lord Man, I think you have got it.

By the Way i'm intersested to find out how you found out this bug?

Well done and I do hope this gets fixed.

Well, I noticed it because I always like to rest my star players for the next game when possible. Going back years in FM, players who you sub off to rest have always got the same end-game condition boost as those who play the full 90. I noticed straight away when playing the demo for FM09 that those you sub off weren't getting the condition boost at full-time, making it totally pointless trying to rest them, you may as well just let them play the full match. So come the next match 3 days later, those I rested on 60-70 mins were on the same or slightly less condition than those who had played the full match. I reported it a few times, as did others, but it never got fixed in 3 patches.

The most ridiculous aspect of this bug is when you take a player off with 1 minute left to kill time, and then at full-time they end up like 9-10% less than someone who was on exactly the same condition as them, simply because they didn't stay on for that last minute and get the condition boost.

Good Lord Man, I think you have got it.

By the Way i'm intersested to find out how you found out this bug?

Well done and I do hope this gets fixed.

The only reason I can think that SI aren't commenting on this is because they are a bit embarrassed by the fact that they havent even fixed this after 3 patches!

Or perhaps they are working hard on FM2010.

Never noticed that before, but now that I'm aware of it it's quite irritating. Can't believe they didn't fixed it after 3 patches.

I appreciate that, but this is a pretty major bug. I can't believe it got overlooked for 3 patches, as it was first reported and acknowledged nearly a year ago. It caused me to stop making subs with the intention of resting players, as it had no benefit. If anything it caused me to sub off lesser players who weren't going to play the next game, which obviously doesn't make any sense.

All it would take is 1 minute for someone to state whether or not this bug has been/is going to be fixed for FM10.

Or perhaps they are working hard on FM2010.

I had no idea. SI probably didn't bother because not enough people noticed. It is a pretty major flaw.

The worst bug on FM in my oppinion. Now I only make changes when a player gets injured or gets a knock during a game. Otherwise, no subs for me.

And to think there's lots of people playing the game right now without knowing of the existence of this bug.

True, I'm quite suprised more people haven't noticed it and speaking up about this bug to be honest. It totally spoilt subsitutions for me. I'm just hoping it's been fixed for this years game, would be nice if someone could provide an official response.

The worst bug on FM in my oppinion. Now I only make changes when a player gets injured or gets a knock during a game. Otherwise, no subs for me.

And to think there's lots of people playing the game right now without knowing of the existence of this bug.

The other problem is that you do subs not just to rest players, but also when your team is tired in a match and you need fresh legs.

To sub, you lose the recovery for the subbed player. To not sub, your match advantage is gone. So it's pretty much a case of 'darn if you do, darn if you don't'

True, all we can do is hope for the best that they've fixed this bug I guess, as there's been no official word as yet...

The other problem is that you do subs not just to rest players, but also when your team is tired in a match and you need fresh legs.

To sub, you lose the recovery for the subbed player. To not sub, your match advantage is gone. So it's pretty much a case of 'darn if you do, darn if you don't'

Never noticed this before, I'm not one to go on about bugs but I'd be dissapointed if this carried into 2010. Any confirmation on this being fixed?

I'm not sure if this is still the case but in previous CM / FM, players get a recovery at HT too. So the best time to bring in a less-than-fit sub is just before HT e.g. introduce a 80%+ fitness player just before HT, start of 2nd half he gets 90%+ fitness.

Wow, never realised this bug existed... tho it now makes alot of sense!

I was thinking it was only because the guys I subbed off had lower natural fitness and hence got tired earlier and takes longer to recover!

So if I dont even make subs during the game, what exactly do I do during matches?

Does the same thing happen to the AI in your game, how about in straight simulations? Say your opponent in the next game in 2 days subs someone at the 80th minute, in his game, will that person not regain stamina in the simulated game?

You can't use the bug to your advantage like that, players you bring on will only go back up to what they were originally on, when they get the condition boost, they can't go over it.

I'm not sure if this is still the case but in previous CM / FM, players get a recovery at HT too. So the best time to bring in a less-than-fit sub is just before HT e.g. introduce a 80%+ fitness player just before HT, start of 2nd half he gets 90%+ fitness.

Yea, I checked this and the same thing does happen to the AI. So at least it's not just happening to the human manager. Still though that doesn't change the fact that you should

a) Be able to rest players and keep them fresh for the next game, they shouldn't end up on the same or less condition than those who've played the full 90 minutes.

and b) Subbing a player with 1 or 2 minutes left shouldn't make them end up with 10% less condition at full-time than someone who was on exacty the same condition as them before you made the sub. That's totally unfair.

Does the same thing happen to the AI in your game, how about in straight simulations? Say your opponent in the next game in 2 days subs someone at the 80th minute, in his game, will that person not regain stamina in the simulated game?

Yea, I checked this and the same thing does happen to the AI. So at least it's not just happening to the human manager. Still though that doesn't change the fact that you should

a) Be able to rest players and keep them fresh for the next game, they shouldn't end up on the same or less condition than those who've played the full 90 minutes.

and b) Subbing a player with 1 or 2 minutes left shouldn't make them end up with 10% less condition at full-time than someone who was on exacty the same condition as them before you made the sub. That's totally unfair.

Absolutely agreed. I now always re-consider before subbing someone to rest him. He might be better off to stay on and get the extra percentage at the end of the match.

Unfortunately it doesn't work as a cheat vice versa. I tried bringing on one of my stars, after he was back from injury but only at 80% condition, two minutes from the end of the match and hoped he would have a better condition afterwards, but it was just set back to 80% so there is nothing to gain here

I'm hoping someone from SI has seen this by now...please fix this if you haven't already!

I don't know whether its my training schedules or what, but I don't appear to have this problem - or at least my players are nearly alwats fit enough to play twice in three games, regardless of whether I've subbed them or not. May have to look at this closely..

You've missed the point dude. The point is it's a bug that subbing players off with the intention of resting them has no real benefit, and depending on the time at which you make the subs, can even have an adverse effect.

Next time you're in the 89th/90th minute of a game, sub off 1 of two players who are on identical condition at that point. Then at full-time, when you're giving your team talk, notice how the 1 you left on is now about 9% above the player who you subbed off with 1 minute left.

I don't know whether its my training schedules or what, but I don't appear to have this problem - or at least my players are nearly alwats fit enough to play twice in three games, regardless of whether I've subbed them or not. May have to look at this closely..

I'm guessing this still hasn't been fixed due to the lack of any response from SI...oh well, if that's the case, I hope it at least gets sorted for the 1st patch!

Come on SI, we know you read this, say something!

With SI's new system of tracking and prioritizing bug/suggestion fixes I'd imagine this would be addressed for 2010, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, though the lack of response usually would mean this has not been addressed.

Anyone going to fun some tests next weekend to find out?

Anyone going to fun some tests next weekend to find out?

Fun would not be the word if I'm still going to have to work around this irritation :-)

Well, it's not looking too good seeing as I made this thread over 2 weeks ago and they haven't replied. I think the 1st patch may be the best we can hope for with regards to this bug being fixed.

Fun would not be the word if I'm still going to have to work around this irritation :-)

Fun would not be the word if I'm still going to have to work around this irritation :-)

Haha, my bad.

Well, it's not looking too good seeing as I made this thread over 2 weeks ago and they haven't replied. I think the 1st patch may be the best we can hope for with regards to this bug being fixed.

We'll know in a week's time.

It seems like the nearer to the end of the match, the less condition the subbed player regains (you noticed that he regains a bit as soon as hes subbed?). So unless you're subbing him after 10 minutes, he will always regain less condition than the normal 10%.

It should be that every subbed player regains immediately 10% (or at the end of the match). So if you sub a player, he will be more fresh than the others because he didn't suffer the condition drop of the last X minutes of the match. Just how it should be.

Any news from SI about the bug?

Weird, as I recall it every time I sub a player his match fitness increases. ;/

it's a real awkward bug that needs to be addressed. they should definitely fix it both for 09 and 10.

TAO:

Beta-testers and SI-blokes

as the game is gold now; can you please confirm if this bug has been fixed?

Thank you.

The lack of response probably means they havn't - and probably not planned for FM2010 either.

TAO:

Beta-testers and SI-blokes

as the game is gold now; can you please confirm if this bug has been fixed?

Thank you.

Wait and see