DM + AM Useless

I have been playing FM08 and 09 extensively these past two years, and besides my many gripes with the tactics, one of the basic conclusions I came to some time ago regarding the tactics, is that the DM + AM positions are (practically) useless and you have to adjust your tactics accordingly. This is really bad as I love to play with technical, playmaker style players but it seems to be to your disadvantage.

Am I missing something here because after excessive play (including a long career) on 09, I can safely say that 80% of my best/influential players have been AMC's.

I find DM's work, but I'm sure there was a known issue with the AMC position in FM2009, that made them get fairly poor ratings, even if they're playing reasonably well. That said, I've tried to find a reference to it and failed. Have I gone mad, or was this an issue? I remember thinking I couldn't play my normal formation with an attacking midfielder "in the hole".

I find DM's work, but I'm sure there was a known issue with the AMC position in FM2009, that made them get fairly poor ratings, even if they're playing reasonably well. That said, I've tried to find a reference to it and failed. Have I gone mad, or was this an issue? I remember thinking I couldn't play my normal formation with an attacking midfielder "in the hole".

It was indeed an issue, as was the gap between AM & DM if playing with no normal midfielder (the latter of which has been worked for FM2010 ME)

Unless I'm using a default 4-4-2 I think I always have at least 1 DMC, even 2 sometimes, they're often my most consitent performers. AMC has been more hit and miss but I've had some success, including a 4-1-3-2 with 1 DMC and 3 AMCs that helped my Cambridge team break down weaker teams on the way to the EPL title.

In a 4-2-3-1 system the AMC is really helpful in creating chances and scoring goals, I use this formation for my liverpool team and Gerrard as an AMC has always been my 2nd biggest goalscorer after Torres as well as getting the most assists in the EPL one season.

Xabi Alonso won midfielder of the year in my previous Liverpool save playing almost exclusively at DM. In FM08 Diego won every award conceived of from AMC for me. Mata is my most highly rated player so far in my current season playing only at AMC. There's no problem with the positions, but you have to have the correct tactical setup to get the best from them, which seems pretty obvious to me .

I find my 3 AM 's boss the game for me

I use 2 winger types but with a free role and my central AM(usually Rooney/Riquelme/Zarate) do the damage set up lots of chances

I play 4-2-3-1-

the 2 dms make the attacking possible

but you have to tinker with tactics to get it right..............but it is worth it!!!!

I used to have that impression too but then had a read of the Tactics forum and realised it's my tactic.

My theory (can well be wrong, best ask someone that have proven record) is the following:

DM : Attacking, no forward run

AM : Defensive (well not as attacking), with forward run.

I know the mentality seems counter-intuitive, but I think they state what position should your players be without the ball.

For that, I want them close the gap between them.

If I do the intuitive way, DM being defensive (deeper than normal DM position) and AM being attacking (higher than normal AM), then the gap between then will be huge.

I think having a DM that is slightly forward up and a AM sitting slightly deeper minimises the gap, and once you have the ball, your AM can rush forward.

There are two types of DM that I use: the defensive screen (in my side that's usually Mascherano) and the deep-lying playmaker. The former should have short passing (his job is to win the ball and move it on, not create the play), defensive mentality, fairly high closing down, little creative freedom and no forward runs or long shots. The playmaker I will usually give longer passing to, more creative freedom and a mid-level mentality. He'll usually have mixed forward runs unless I'm shutting up shop and long shots often to mixed.

For AMC if you want a deep-lying goal scorer then high mentality, through balls often, forward runs often, etc (this is Mata in my current save). If you want a player to dictate the play from that position then mixed forward runs and mid to low mentality, through balls often, long shots mixed, etc. The Tactical Theorems and Frameworks document is an invaluable guide in translating real football thoughts and ideas into in-game tactical instructions. Alternately, waiting for FM10 and it's built-in tactical wizard might be just the ticket for those failing to get the most from their players.

There are two types of DM that I use: the defensive screen (in my side that's usually Mascherano) and the deep-lying playmaker. The former should have short passing (his job is to win the ball and move it on, not create the play), defensive mentality, fairly high closing down, little creative freedom and no forward runs or long shots. The playmaker I will usually give longer passing to, more creative freedom and a mid-level mentality. He'll usually have mixed forward runs unless I'm shutting up shop and long shots often to mixed.

For AMC if you want a deep-lying goal scorer then high mentality, through balls often, forward runs often, etc (this is Mata in my current save). If you want a player to dictate the play from that position then mixed forward runs and mid to low mentality, through balls often, long shots mixed, etc. The Tactical Theorems and Frameworks document is an invaluable guide in translating real football thoughts and ideas into in-game tactical instructions. Alternately, waiting for FM10 and it's built-in tactical wizard might be just the ticket for those failing to get the most from their players.

I use two box-to-box midfielders and an AMC in between the lone striker and the midfield, and he's without a doubt the most important single player in my tactic. 15 goals, 8 assists and around 7.2 overall rating for my Bundesliga winning Regensburg team in our internet game. I haven't had any problems with AMs really, they just tend to get low ratings every now and then, which seems to be mostly because of shots going off the target (for some reason this lowers the AM rating much more than it does for a player in MC role, or at least that's my guess).

The one position I've had problems with has to be the striker, especially when playing a lone one. I haven't had a striker to score over 10 goals for years now, not even when we won the first division and scored the second most goals overall. My strikers average at around 6.70 and never seem to score much despite a decent amount of good chances.. one of them (Thibault Bourgeois) had a 27% shooting accuracy and 0 goals in 16 games.

the DM + AM positions are (practically) useless

If you're playing against a team of similar or better quality to yourself who use 2 or 3 AMCs, you won't have a more useful player in your side than a DMC.

you have to adjust your tactics accordingly

........in other words - be a manager.