Starr_Man5 Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 Ok, I'm going to level with you all - I'm rubbish at this game. No matter how hard I try with any team, I've only ever ONCE acheived something on ANY of the FM's. (FM07 - finished 4th in the league with Atletico Madrid (predicted 9th)) That's the height of my managerial career. No cups, no leagues, no promotions, nothing, nada, zip! I think I've started in excess of 200 games and never once won anything. That's quite an acheivement I suppose. Are you as bad or (doubtfully) worse than me? PS - I'm a self-confessed Fanboy. No matter what the game throws at me, I keep playing because I love it, this is no "Rant". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Ok, I'm going to level with you all - I'm rubbish at this game. No matter how hard I try with any team, I've only ever ONCE acheived something on ANY of the FM's. (FM07 - finished 4th in the league with Atletico Madrid (predicted 9th)) That's the height of my managerial career. No cups, no leagues, no promotions, nothing, nada, zip! I think I've started in excess of 200 games and never once won anything. That's quite an acheivement I suppose. Are you as bad or (doubtfully) worse than me? PS - I'm a self-confessed Fanboy. No matter what the game throws at me, I keep playing because I love it, this is no "Rant". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Stinson Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I'm terrible, too. But that's what keeps me playing and having a lot of fun. Winning it all and being "good" would be ridiculously boring and pointless. P.S. The best I've ever done was also in FM07. I think it was my second or third year with Bromley in the Conference South, I was hanging around the top of the table most of the year, but then we fell in the last few weeks of the season. We never really recovered in the following years. But it was fun trying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 @B. Stinson - I had a similar experience in my second year with Atletico; was leading the league ELEVEN POINTS CLEAR with 7 matches to go. Lost all seven matches. I was geniuinely crying and I'm not afraid to admit it. Totally demoralized me tbh - I still haven't recovered - I was so close I could feel the trophy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 It's just you and me B. S I think the problem is that the people who should be saying "Yes, I am too" would probably be the same people who are on here evey day moaning about how the game cheats. I admit I used to moan and cry all the time, then I had an enlightening experience (Atletico) and now I know the reason I don't win is because: (Drum roll...) I AM RUBBISH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwf Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 *man hugs Starr_Man5* I'm average I think, i'm far too lazy to be good at the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mwf: *man hugs Starr_Man5* I'm average I think, i'm far too lazy to be good at the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> "man-hug" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lim Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5: @B. Stinson - I had a similar experience in my second year with Atletico; was leading the league ELEVEN POINTS CLEAR with 7 matches to go. Lost all seven matches. I was geniuinely crying and I'm not afraid to admit it. Totally demoralized me tbh - I still haven't recovered - I was so close I could feel the trophy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> pressure must of goten to the players lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFS Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 If you keep on starting new games, can't you just sign the youngsters you've seen progress well from other games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixxy Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 rubbish? be man utd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 @Lim - yeah, I think so. We were predicted to finish 9th first season but finished 4th (ECC!!) then second season was even better - streaked away to the lead (beat R. Madrid home and away) before just falling apart on the last few furlongs..... Oh, the despair... I guess we were over-acheiving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundo Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I've never completed any challenges I've entered in the challenge forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TFS: If you keep on starting new games, can't you just sign the youngsters you've seen progress well from other games? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Youngsters normally have a PA of like -7 or -8 meaning they are different each game. One game they could be brilliant, next time they could start at pretty much their PA limit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon07 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5: @B. Stinson - I had a similar experience in my second year with Atletico; was leading the league ELEVEN POINTS CLEAR with 7 matches to go. Lost all seven matches. I was geniuinely crying and I'm not afraid to admit it. Totally demoralized me tbh - I still haven't recovered - I was so close I could feel the trophy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Kev? Kev, is that you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrikf Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Yes, I am terrible too....and no... I am not moaning either. I am just really bad at tactics...I keep looking at the tactics forum for help but it is just all too confusing for me. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpse88 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 im rubbish too...best ive done in fm08 is 7th in the championship...but where is the fun in winning everything ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubbs Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I must be truly rubbish - 6 months after starting a new game I still don't have a job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NepentheZ Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I'd like to think I'm good at this game. I have a lot of success. I put a LOT of effort into my games though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ: I'd like to think I'm good at this game. I have a lot of success. I put a LOT of effort into my games though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Big head Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrahimAliMaher Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I had wondered, would anyone continue to play the game if they never won anything? Apparently so, but that can't be true of everybody surely? If I'm rubbish at any game not matter how hard I try then I'd give up (doesn't happy very often ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeney-G Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I dnt c myself anywer neer as good as i wish i was at this game... this is why i always have spells where i play it for 2 or 3 weeks consantly(Red bull jobbie) then when the misery of losing uefa cup semi's with bolton and league cup finals finnally get to me.. me and FM sadly seperate for a few months before i can handle the pressure and overall misery all over again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patje.lol Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Generally speaking, I'm not rubbish. Usually I do rather well and win at least a cup or something. But let's be fair, out of 10 saves I start, I have 3-4 in which I just can't do anything right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 I have to say, this thread of mine has been better received than I initially thought. It is good to see fellow rubbish managers "Coming out" so to speak. PS - in my current (another new one!) Liverpool game, I'm a few games into the seaon, unbeaten, have yet to concede first (only conceded 1 goal in two separate matches) and we're officially "Solid". Of course, me being me, we're doomed to failure pretty soon so I'm enjoying this "Crest of the wave" that I'm currently riding. Hell, I might even make it past September.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schotsmannetje Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 "Are you rubbish too?" Guilty! Actually I'm just rubbish because I never really take the time to adjust all the training schedules perfectly and my tactics aren't very detailed either. My favourite part about FM is the negotiating. I just love scouting, selling and buying players, signing staff, and extending contracts. I think there are a few football management games in which you can become a sort of financial director by putting all the tactics and training schedules on automatic. That would suit me perfectly. I dit get away with it in FM07 though, that game was pretty easy whem I compare it with FM08. In FM07 I've won so many prices with just standard tactics and training schedules, but I find that to be impossible in FM08. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robzilla Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Schotsmannetje: I think there are a few football management games in which you can become a sort of financial director by putting all the tactics and training schedules on automatic. That would suit me perfectly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Er, you can do this with FM. Set training to automatic, pick a tactic from the default list and away you go. Get the Ass Man to pick the team too if you can't be bothered to even do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bRAzIL Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 It depends what mood I'm in. If I rush I am rubbish, but if I take my time building a tactic and watching games I can usually have a decent season. My problem was adjusting to how I played the game. On all the other versions I was used to rushing through seasons with one or two tactics and having good success. The thrill was signing players on the cheap and seeing them become world beaters. It's not that easy in this version, and if I'm really honest, probably not as much fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schotsmannetje Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by robzilla: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Schotsmannetje: I think there are a few football management games in which you can become a sort of financial director by putting all the tactics and training schedules on automatic. That would suit me perfectly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Er, you can do this with FM. Set training to automatic, pick a tactic from the default list and away you go. Get the Ass Man to pick the team too if you can't be bothered to even do that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Well no that's the problem. If you put everyting on automatic, all the tactics and training are very basic, without very much detail. It's not so much that I can't be bothered to make my own line-ups and tactics, it's just not my favourite part of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimKeeper Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I have to admit im rubbish too except for the lower leagues im usually a good confrence manager hehe, but every time i stat a tottenham save i do crap in about 100 starts ive probably only been succesful probably 3 or 4 times. luckily enough we have juande in real life hehe thank god. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzydeepy Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Im pretty good, i never badly underachieve but i tbh i never stick at games long enough for sucess. I think I have one the FA cup with liverpool once and the Asia cup with the Australia. So i could do better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 Hazzydeepy, your trophy cabinet is, in comparison to mine, massive. On reflection, I may have won the community sheild once or twice when I started a new game with Liverpool on FM07. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamshankley Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5: Hazzydeepy, your trophy cabinet is, in comparison to mine, massive. On reflection, I may have won the community sheild once or twice when I started a new game with Liverpool on FM07. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> That must of been a lot of sheilds then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robzilla Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Schotsmannetje: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by robzilla: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Schotsmannetje: I think there are a few football management games in which you can become a sort of financial director by putting all the tactics and training schedules on automatic. That would suit me perfectly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Er, you can do this with FM. Set training to automatic, pick a tactic from the default list and away you go. Get the Ass Man to pick the team too if you can't be bothered to even do that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Well no that's the problem. If you put everyting on automatic, all the tactics and training are very basic, without very much detail. It's not so much that I can't be bothered to make my own line-ups and tactics, it's just not my favourite part of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Basic they may be, but it didn't stop me winning 11 consecutive Eredivisie title s with Ajax using only the default tactics... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomjr Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 You're only rubbish cuz you think you're rubbish. Datsikorn Manapa coached the Khon Kaen University football team for 40 years, and he never won a darn thing. He never got a bonus, nor recognized until he passed away last year. But he never said he was bad at coaching, in fact do the players and staff think he's a wonderful coach. The greatest achievement is not about winning games, or getting cups, or getting a raise, but its all about how long you've stayed with the club, and enjoyed every moment of it. The greatest reward of being a manger, is being a manager, period. So I think you're doing a good job mate. You want to know what a real rubbish manager is like? See me in a blue moon, when I'm drunk and keep losing and loading til I win. Now that is rubbish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benbond332 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I may have found my FM brothers here I'm only successful when I take a lower league team. I can get a BSS/N team promoted to, say League 1, and that sort of thing... Problem is, I'm...well, crap in the EPL. Haha, might be due to the "Newcastle" curse though. I only play as them, can't seem to pick anyone. There was one save in 07 I remember when I got 3 or so good seasons, 2 UEFA cup wins and such... but they were the exception. In 08, so far...10th was the highest (and I'm not talking about the first season either lol) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray magini Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 i'm terrible. 1. I can't finish a season. I start with a team and then think "i should have been them!" 2. The only season i have ever finished i managed to get portsmouth relegated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomjr Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ray magini: i'm terrible. 1. I can't finish a season. I start with a team and then think "i should have been them!" 2. The only season i have ever finished i managed to get portsmouth relegated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I feel your pain. Give me a hug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncherdave Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toon07: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5: @B. Stinson - I had a similar experience in my second year with Atletico; was leading the league ELEVEN POINTS CLEAR with 7 matches to go. Lost all seven matches. I was geniuinely crying and I'm not afraid to admit it. Totally demoralized me tbh - I still haven't recovered - I was so close I could feel the trophy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Kev? Kev, is that you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> haha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleforlife Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I'm rubbish. The only tyhing I've ever achieved once and never repeated again was in CM 03/04 in which I got Palace promoted to the Prem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patje.lol Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GrimKeeper: I have to admit im rubbish too except for the lower leagues im usually a good confrence manager hehe, but every time i stat a tottenham save i do crap in about 100 starts ive probably only been succesful probably 3 or 4 times. luckily enough we have juande in real life hehe thank god. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Same here, mate. I'm pretty good at the lower league management, but when I try a top or a subtop team, I usually crash and burn. Building a team and getting to the top is where I'm good at, staying there is nearly impossible for me. I bet ya it's going to be the same with my current save. First season with NEC (predicted 12th) in Holland, I finished the season 5th with only a few players bought and loaned as a back-up. I highly doubt I'll finish above 10th next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 Magic stories lads, keep them coming. I'm starting to feel normal here. I am not alone... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattyg Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 lol this game is truly amazing. The fact that we all keep coming back to it over and over again after all the heartache (well heartache for me). Every season is the same, heartache followed by a glimmer of hope after a couple of wins (then i start thinkin maybe i'm a good manager) but then reality sets in and we finish the season with nothing. Oh well, who cares? i wouldn't have it any other way (well maybe one trophy please!!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ray magini: 2. The only season i have ever finished i managed to get portsmouth relegated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Let me buy you a beer!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edosimon Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I'm so bad at creating and tweaking tactics, so I usually sign a good assistant manager and come game day I go on holiday for one day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edosimon: I'm so bad at creating and tweaking tactics, so I usually sign a good assistant manager and come game day I go on holiday for one day </div></BLOCKQUOTE> You do that for all games??? Your tactics must be so bad you can't bare the heartache of watching your team tore to peices? good for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5: It's just you and me B. S </div></BLOCKQUOTE> You two, anyone from the LLaMa forum and 99% of real-life managers - not such a tiny minority. Oh, and me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 PS I'm a tactics anorak and micro-manager, taking a week game-time per season. I do my best, but I simply manage very humble teams Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I certainly found my Ass Man did a better job than me in a match in my 1st season when I had a touchline ban. We'd won just once away all season and were away to the league leaders - my Ass Man pulled off a very nice win for me, but of course I wasn't able to view his tactical instructions! Then again last season I had another touchline ban, we were again away, to a team I'd lost to 5 times out of 5. Ass Man pulls off another stunning victory (4-5) so I go and look at his team talks after the game to see if I could get any tips - he gave no team talk at all before the match!! If I did that my players would riot and go in 0-5 down at half time. Last night was my piece de resistance though - first game in charge of Werder Bremen, up against Bayern Munich. Squad very light on wide players so I decided to play a back 3 of very tall centre-backs with a couple of DMCs in front thinking I'd let their wingers put their crosses in and my towering centre-backs would beat their slightly less towering forwards in the air and head them all away. Boy did I get it wrong! 5 minutes in a pinpoint cross was headed home by Toni and into the secoond half we went 0-4 down after being destroyed by the Bayern wingers. One winger picking up the ball out wide, fiound my 2 man-marking centre-backs had been pulled out of position by the strikers and the other was AWOL along with my 2 DMCs who were drinking cups of tea just ahead of our penalty area so he just strode infield and casually fired the ball past my hapless goalkeeper. We did have > 20 shots on goal, but the only one we scored was when their centre-back poked into his own net. Clearly I was a tactical ignaramous who deserved to be burned at the stake or at least never take control of a football team at that level again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skunner Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I managed to get Aston Villa relegated. Only have 1 league win under my belt, with Tottenham, getting them promoted to the Premier League after being relegated the prior season. 1 League win and I'm in 2017. That's all i've accomplished. But that 1 league win gives me hope. I believe. Although it seems like most of the teams I managed have become better teams after I left. I signed quality players, but they just suck when I manage them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lambs Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I DID consider my self pretty good at this game until I read this post. Up to that point I had won back to back titles with Aston Villa and had a 56 game unbeaten run. Since reading your comments I seem to be infected with some sort of crapiness. My bunch of tarts just lost the FA cup final 4-1, the Champions league final 3-1 the Charity shield on penalties and the first 2 games of the league have been losses to Derby and West Brom. The start of the new season has not been helped by my Assistant manager organising all my friendlies as a tour of Holland, which then got cancelled due to a fixtures clash. leaving me with only 2 friendlies before the season started. I hold you ALL personally responsible for passing you rubbishness on to me. If any of you have suddenly started winning, then that is my winning streak you have stolen and I want it back! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The Lambs: I DID consider my self pretty good at this game until I read this post. Up to that point I had won back to back titles with Aston Villa and had a 56 game unbeaten run. Since reading your comments I seem to be infected with some sort of crapiness. My bunch of tarts just lost the FA cup final 4-1, the Champions league final 3-1 the Charity shield on penalties and the first 2 games of the league have been losses to Derby and West Brom. The start of the new season has not been helped by my Assistant manager organising all my friendlies as a tour of Holland, which then got cancelled due to a fixtures clash. leaving me with only 2 friendlies before the season started. I hold you ALL personally responsible for passing you rubbishness on to me. If any of you have suddenly started winning, then that is my winning streak you have stolen and I want it back! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> *I'm not joking, but I've just started to put together a winning run of late. Third in the league with Liverpool atm... My next league match is against Man Utd (I'm certain to lose it). I'll let you know how it goes.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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