Will FM10 be easier?

I have had every single incarnation of the game including SI's Champ days, but as the difficulty has become so extreme, I am no longer able to enjoy the game anymore. The last 2 versions have been ditched by February / March due to me being utterly inept and I can't say I've enjoyed a single version since my dominance on FM05 which i loved. The new features that keep getting added are fantastic, and the SI guys are doing a great job - unfortunately though my patience has run dry with the series. I can no longer justify paying my money on something I know that is probably going to be gathering dust in no time.

I have always had the game pre-ordered by this time in the past, but now i'm going to hang fire til the demo and give it a try. I've had a quick read through the forum to see if II could find anything about FM10's difficulty, but to no avail. Has anyone any news regarding this? I don't expect skill levels to be introduced, just some better feedback from the staff telling me where i'm going wrong would be a start. But it sure has to be something a lot better than recent incarnations.

SI aren't going to miss my money, but I know many die-hard players from a few years ago that stopped buying it for this very reason of difficulty.

I would recommend reading some of the game documentation and some of the tactical explanations and tips that are available. The game has certainly gotten a bit more complex, and some of the tactical adjustments have become very critical, especially during matches.

But I think all of this can be learned by doing a bit of reading. I still continue to pick up tips just by reading the forums and hearing about how managers approach their home vs. away matches, how they try to develop tactics to fit their players, etc. The learning experience is never completed, but it sounds like maybe you didn't get a chance to learn the newer features as they were introduced.

I think you can gain a basic understanding and start improving results if you spend just a couple of hours reading about tactics, training, etc.

I read a few tips, turned my team from bottom of the league to mid/upper table.

The game is getting deeper, I learnt from my days designing golf courses for the tiger woods EA series that often its not the course that is too difficult but that the player needs to improve. I kept that as my goal for designing fair but tough courses, just as SI have made a fair but tough game.

I agree with you it is getting harder( unless you are 1 of those with the tedious threads 'I have gone 2 years without conceading, I signed Messi for £200m' etc etc.............. yeah right only because you have edited yourself to make sure you win all the time....YOU ARE CHEATING WHATS THE POINT!)

However some of the earlier versions were too easy

So it can be frustrating ........I have just started an updated DB as Man U and spent all my money .still lost 3-1 away to Hammers and drew 1-1 with Wigan

stick with it and try something different tactically........I have changed my 4-2-3-1.......................to 4-1-3-2- to get another striker up top I got a win at Bolton 4-0

I think it strikes the right balance. I'd hate to win most games with little effort and stroll to the league title, that would feel pointless.

Managing games are unlike other games, in that losing doesn't mean game over, you start again next season and try to improve.

If some of the people on here are to believed and they can actually go all season without losing and all the rest of it, then it suggests that if anything FM is too easy. However I can't help but feel most of them cheat by reloading each game.

Thanks alot for the comments guys. And although I haven't really got an answer to my original question, I am pleased that there hasn't been a single smart-a55 amongst you.

Maybe I will buy the latest version, but like I say only if I find the demo more forgiving. FM in the past was always a game I could load up and get back into whenever I wanted, for as long or short as I wanted. Now the game is geared only towards die-hards. I shouldn't HAVE to read through forums in the vain hope that I might gradually become a better manager. I simply don't have the time. Other games like FIFA / PES etc, I can pick up and play. FM is getting less and less possible to be able to do this with now, and the casual gamer like myself have now got disillusioned with the series. I refuse to go with Championship Manager though - that would make me feel dirty ;-)

The fact people (myself included) can guide a team from the BSN to Premiership & Champion's League glory shows the game is not as hard as it seems complex.

I think the fact it's more complex now works in the players favour if you take the time to carefully build your team with the right tactic. You can really punch above your weight and somewhat abuse the new 'difficulty.'

No one knows if FM10 will be easier, but they're implementing a new tactics selection system that might make it a bit easier and more intuitive to set up your tactics for the team and each player. If anything, I see the game always striving to be challenging, which in a way means that it will become more difficult, but there have always been ways to keep up with it.

I strongly suspect the new tactics UI will help people get into the game - it's got to be more logical setting up your tactics using football terminology than sliders...

And there have been blogs about the new backroom advice feature, and how you're going to be getting more feedback from your staff about things.

I doubt these will make the game 'easy' but it should certainly make it more approachable.

If you can use it well you can pretty much "never have too much information"

I think the new approach to tactics will make it easier to harmonise a team in a tactic, I always found this difficult. I am always against micromanagement in games, it ruined Civ3 for me.

The tactics creator will help you alot

The AI is going to use the same tactics creator (sort of) so in my opinion it's about to become a lot harder! Especially for those people having trouble 'reading' the match engine and/or wanting to fly through seasons.

It's not that hard. You just aren't doing it right son.

Just steal tactics from the tactics forum!

Just steal tactics from the tactics forum!

i could never win but i used some1 else's tactics and now i enjoy the game. i dont expect to win every week and i dont usually (apart from my current save) BUT I ENJOY IT THAT WAY, HAVING TO FIGHT FOR RESULTS, cant wait for fm10, im drunk so apologise for pressing the caps lock a moment ago lol

why is it hard?

because numerous seasons you have gone on to win nothing? thats football management

92 league clubs, not everyclub can win something

just tweak your tactics and look at your teams strengths and weaknesses and build on them, there is even an ass man for assistance

lets not go down the fifa manager path please

I agree with those who say the Tactics Creator will help. I played FM Live for a year, and found the Tactics thingie an immense help. It won't turn a dummy into Rafa Benitez, despite the worries of some. But if you know what you want as far as tactics go, the Creator will make it more likely your vision will become a reality. Granted, I am not Rafa Benitez, and my tactics to date are still mediocre. But they are finally the tactics I wanted, rather than a mishmash of long-forgotten slider adjustments.

I'm in much the same positon. I haven't really enjoyed the game or played it at any length since FM05 and I stopped buying at FM07. There's a couple of appealing new features coming in FM10, the tactics wizard and the backroom advice. Whether these will make the game any easier or enjoyable remains to be seen though. I'll certainly give the demo a longer look this year though.

why is it hard?

because numerous seasons you have gone on to win nothing? thats football management

92 league clubs, not everyclub can win something

just tweak your tactics and look at your teams strengths and weaknesses and build on them, there is even an ass man for assistance

lets not go down the fifa manager path please

Yes spot on

and I know there are purisits here who say I only buy players I have scouted/or I am not prepared to use help re-tactics etc:confused:

well I agree to an extent as a MANAGER are you saying you have no knowledge about the game i.e. arent you aware of potential targets/wonderkids ??????? and target them for your scouts

and dont you think even the best managers seek guidance/BORROW other coaches tactics etc in real life .....

I agree with those who say the Tactics Creator will help. I played FM Live for a year, and found the Tactics thingie an immense help. It won't turn a dummy like Rafa Benitez into a good manager, despite the worries of some. But if you know what you want as far as tactics go, the Creator will make it more likely your vision will become a reality.

Sorry I just couldn't help correcting your original post.

I hope not.

But I hope the home~away games dont have such an uneven difficulty.

I agree to you Brendever.

Yes spot on

and I know there are purisits here who say I only buy players I have scouted/or I am not prepared to use help re-tactics etc:confused:

well I agree to an extent as a MANAGER are you saying you have no knowledge about the game i.e. arent you aware of potential targets/wonderkids ??????? and target them for your scouts

and dont you think even the best managers seek guidance/BORROW other coaches tactics etc in real life .....

There is a point there - however this is a game. Not everyone wants, or has time, to do it like a real life manager. The vast majority (probably about 80%) of players want to take their team and win the title, do well for about a decade of in game time, then start again (me included). For these people its more about being fun, not realistic or hard. Therefore i think that these things do make it easier, but you should be able to set it to 'Casual' or 'Hardcore' gamer, which would affect the difficulty.

I agree with your point about it ultimately being a game, silva gunner. I'd be interested to know how many people are in the same position of picking their favourite team and wanting to do well, as opposed to wanting to mimic exactly what is happening in the real world.

For me it's less about making the game easier and more about making it less frustrating, to acheive that I think some of the underlying mechanics of the game need to be made a little more transparent and intuitive. As sm1979 said in the opening post, 'better feedback from the staff telling me where i'm going wrong'. The tactal side of the game seems to be getting this in FM 10, the priority for me is the mental side of things (team talks/player interaction/mind games etc.).

I dont wan't it to be easier, I enjoy the difficulty there is in the game.

However, ambiguity and poorly explained options are a constant source of complaint for me with the game.

A proper pdf-based manual prepared by the SI team that clearly explains options, attributes etc would go a long to improving the game.

I really want to see an overhaul of the set-piece options, training, individual instructions & tactics in general. If my tactic is failing badly i want to see the AM saying WHY!! in his in-match feedback.

I enjoy the game most of the time, but it's the little things that frustrate and make me turn the game off.

Thanks alot for the comments guys. And although I haven't really got an answer to my original question, I am pleased that there hasn't been a single smart-a55 amongst you.

Maybe I will buy the latest version, but like I say only if I find the demo more forgiving. FM in the past was always a game I could load up and get back into whenever I wanted, for as long or short as I wanted. Now the game is geared only towards die-hards. I shouldn't HAVE to read through forums in the vain hope that I might gradually become a better manager. I simply don't have the time. Other games like FIFA / PES etc, I can pick up and play. FM is getting less and less possible to be able to do this with now, and the casual gamer like myself have now got disillusioned with the series. I refuse to go with Championship Manager though - that would make me feel dirty ;-)

From what I have read I think that the new Tactical wizard / interface will make the game more "intuitive" which should mean (I had better whisper this!) "easier" ! If things need changing we can for the first time in many years look to "tactics" to change things.

I dream that FM10 will give me the feel & tactical control of CM0102.

I think it strikes the right balance for difficulty. It woulnt hurt for the game to give you ideas as to where your going wrong though.

Not necessarily telling you exactly. But giving you an idea.

I'm sure in real life that dowie was giving shearer alot of pointers

why is it hard?

because numerous seasons you have gone on to win nothing? thats football management

92 league clubs, not everyclub can win something

just tweak your tactics and look at your teams strengths and weaknesses and build on them, there is even an ass man for assistance

lets not go down the fifa manager path please

No please don't tar me with that brush. If I was close to winning things that would be a start. I'm not saying I want to win every game and win every title, but I do want to see constant improvement in my team, year on year. Every so often there may be a blip that I can live with, but I have tried smaller teams with less expectation and failed miserably. So I have tried the opposite end of the spectrum in being a very good side, and still being mid-table. If I were to pick Chelsea / Man Utd for example, I don't think expecting a top 6/7 finish would be unreasonable. Yet the amount of time that I could actually put into the game, the best I could muster was a steady 10th - obviously not good enough for a team of their statures. Maybe If I could offer the game more time then I might be able to punch onwards and upwards - but unfortunately this game can eat more of a persons life than they can reasonably expect. I then decided to start a game with Rangers. Expecting to finish 2nd behind Celtic was my (unambitious) aim. Shouldn't have been too hard, surely? Come the end of the season, I managed it - unfortunately a mammoth 28 points behind Celtic, and finishing above Hearts on goal difference only. Like I say, I don't expect to win every game, just to actually see the ample time I initially put into the game rewarded in some way would have been a start.

As for the AssMan's assistance - I think his advice has been a bit poop tbf.

IF the new features for feedback and tactics are meant to be as good as what people are saying, then this may convince me to fork out again. But now for the first time in years I am seriously thinking of not even bothering. Bring on the demo and we shall see.

Thanks all for your input and making it a pretty good debate.

Hm, what are you actually doing? When I started out, just by being fairly conservative with the sliders (like keeping them close to the middle) I was able to do something in FM08. On lower leage levels, yes, but on higher levels there's plenty clubs in the game that you can win titles with without spending three hours on a single match day or something. I'd say the game can be played way more casually than people give it credit for. But since I haven't played FM09, I cannot comment on that.

I might be also reading to much into some lines in here, but I have an issue with some of those suggesting the only form of reward in the game comes in shape of 3 points on Saturday, trophies and results all over the season. It's all about the little things: seeing that elegant centre midfielder you signed on a shock transfer passing good balls over the pitch of your small town club, witnessing your side playing the kind of football you want them to play, two youngsters from your academy starting to bloom, etc. With a game as open as FM, it's always about the little things.

I'm not saying I want to win every game and win every title, but I do want to see constant improvement in my team, year on year. Every so often there may be a blip that I can live with

But football doesn't work that way, and neither should the game. You might get the sack after a bad run, a couple key transfers don't hit, the backbone of your teams refuses to renew contracts and leaves the club, and all of a sudden you're given the sack - and the club goes down at the end of the season. Seeing how many of the fan stories are of the "take minor club and take them all the way on top of glory" kind, with barely a "blip" in sight, it seems that it's possible to do even in FM.

God I hope not. I think they've struck the right balance with this one.

Every FM before this one was so incredibly easy.You could set everyone's mentality except CBs and maybe one CM to attacking and forward throw forward arrows on the lot.

At least we have to think a little with this one.

I believe on the tactical side of things FM10 will be "easier", in that you are not expected to have to make a tactic up from scratch, which is something that many people find annoying. I reckon that using the tactical wizard is enough for a team to achieve (barely) what is expected of them, but the player will have to tweak instructions based on specific players, balance the team (i.e. roles of players), change tactics during the game in order to bring out the team's full potential.

I think we all get different things out of the game, which makes it so great. I enjoy it being hard and love the DETAILS, I can spend ages pre-season getting transfers/scouting/training /formations sorted out the old transfer window deadline usually causes me to panic especially if my team hasnt started well......which is most seasons;)

I imagine some people go straight into a season ASAP and just love playing the games:p

others edit away to make things easier or to put together a super team ....messi/torres/ronnie etc etc:eek:

and good on them if thats what they enjoy( personally I dont see the point of playing that way and going 15 years unbeaten etc etc I just cant see the point in it, we have all seen the threads with THE I AM INTO MY 5TH CONSECUTIVE CHAMPS LEAGUE FINAL AND HAVENT CONCEDED A GOAL:o )

But on balance I think the game is pretty fair as it is I liked the suggestion though of having a selection pre game such as easy/normal/hard????

But I think it should stay as is

The game gets easier as you get further in to it as you start signing players that fit in with your tactics.

People would have more success early on if they developed their tactics to suit the playing staff they start with.

I have had every single incarnation of the game including SI's Champ days, but as the difficulty has become so extreme, I am no longer able to enjoy the game anymore. The last 2 versions have been ditched by February / March due to me being utterly inept and I can't say I've enjoyed a single version since my dominance on FM05 which i loved. The new features that keep getting added are fantastic, and the SI guys are doing a great job - unfortunately though my patience has run dry with the series. I can no longer justify paying my money on something I know that is probably going to be gathering dust in no time.

I have always had the game pre-ordered by this time in the past, but now i'm going to hang fire til the demo and give it a try. I've had a quick read through the forum to see if II could find anything about FM10's difficulty, but to no avail. Has anyone any news regarding this? I don't expect skill levels to be introduced, just some better feedback from the staff telling me where i'm going wrong would be a start. But it sure has to be something a lot better than recent incarnations.

SI aren't going to miss my money, but I know many die-hard players from a few years ago that stopped buying it for this very reason of difficulty.

I hope it doesn`t get any easier as it would just be pointless if everyone could just set up a team of all the best players and win everything whats the point in that, although I do realise that not all people got used to this title with the tactics and things but hey thats football management just persivere and try lots of different tactics along with watching a few full matches and im sure you will see were you are going wrong in the game.

I don't think the game is too hard. I do think the fun is going which makes it seem harder, but I'm winning matches as easily as ever.

I read a few tips, turned my team from bottom of the league to mid/upper table.

The game is getting deeper, I learnt from my days designing golf courses for the tiger woods EA series that often its not the course that is too difficult but that the player needs to improve. I kept that as my goal for designing fair but tough courses, just as SI have made a fair but tough game.

Yes that is quite true. The game is getting deeper. FM 2010 would definitely won't be easier than FM 2009.

I think the difficulty level for FM2009 is just right. It's a good challenge without getting annoying in terms of difficulty. I hope FM2010 delivers a similar sort of difficulty level.

With each version there seems to be more thought needed to defeat the AI. Personally I think that's a very good thing. I remember older versions you just had to pick 11 players to fit within a known super tactic and you could be sure that you wouldn't lose many.

I've been in the position with both FM08 and FM09 where I've considered the game to be too hard and not worth the effort.

The tactics forum is usually a good place to start. I've usually been able to find something there that can be adapted.

If I'm developing a tactic I'll sometimes watch some of the game to see if the players are following the instructions I've set, or to see if there's something that needs tweaking.

Hopefully the new tactics wizard will help people develop their first tactic, and then they can tweak it as they become more immersed in the game.

Well I would apologise for bumping this thread right back up, but i'm not sorry. I just wanted to give the people here an update into my latest attempt at loving the game again. Although i'm not totally sold just yet, I am on the verge of loving it again. I loaded my Rangers save back up and I was about 10 games into the season and already out of the Champions League (albeit against Dinamo Kiev). But I looked at the last match I played, it was away at Hibs. Both teams had only 6 shots, with a depressing 1 shot on target. They won 1-0 and that was enough to say enough's enough. I don't mind the defeat too much, just the manner of it was soul destroying. Anyway, upon loading it back up - I don't really know if someone has sprinkled some magic dust on the game, but since then we've been playing really well. I climbed to the top of the league from 5th within 4 weeks, then I began to pull away from the chasing pack. I ended up finishing top by 15 points, and going 28 games unbeaten for the remainder of the league! The cup competitions were a different matter, but I had finally some success. Knocked out of both domestic cup competitions quite early and the board weren't happy - but they wanted me to get to the quarter finals of the UEFA cup - which I did, but lost there against Dinamo Kiev (of all teams. I know a lot of you will be reading this and saying 'well it is only Rangers' and to your achievements, it probably is what you'd expect - but for me it's a start and something i'm quite proud of. I have strengthened over the summer, and now preparing for the new season. I'm hoping for good things now, and also wanting my unbeaten league streak to continue. But like I say, i'm not totally won over yet, because i'm quite scared to try managing in England. The standard is so much higher, plus the opposition are much closer to each others ability, and as you know, in Scotland that isn't the case.

I have since pre-ordered FM10 and really enjoying the game again.

Thanks for all the input in this thread - and thanks for reading

i certainly hope FM 10 is slightly harder or just as hard as FM 09 was i was newcastle in my save which i will be starting again soon as im getting a new laptop which it will work on, and i finished 7th,7th,3rd,1st,2nd and was 3rd with 10 matches left and won all domestic cups however i only just recently created what i call a decent tactic after playing all the way from FM 05 to FM 10 ive won several cups and titles over these years and one champions league but after 5 years and about hundreds of hours playing the gam.

i have finally a good tactic where i can say i won a game down to tactics i realised going with a base tactic you believe in works best so mine was attacking football with shortish passing and good width and a slightly deep defensive line however ive made hundreds of little tweaks to each players position and will probably continue to do so. I suppose what im trying to say is go and whatever you believe in yourself and constanly change and adjust as you have too because other teams do as well its certainly not easy but when you get a good tactic and start to dominate its certainly worth it

Do people want the game to be easier, or the game to be easier to understand?

I don't want the game to be easier but I don't see a problem with making it abit more transparent as to why things are going wrong.

That's not to say that if it is more transparent it'll make the game easier. I think that people will get less frustrated.

Personally I would like the game to get harder. When you can get teams from the third tier of English football to win the prem in 6 years or so it's just not right. Liverpool have been trying for nigh on 20 years in real life. It's just not that easy

Having now seen all the news on staff feedback i can hazard a guess that FM10 will at least be easier to understand. At the moment if your tactic doesn't work you have to change it at random. In FM10 you will get recommended formations etc. This should make life easier for people.

i know noone is saying fm 10 should be easy but im just saying this i hate easy games they make me mad me i like a challenge it make me work hard and if i win in a hard difficulty its more of an achievement winning in easy difficulty life is hard become a manager is hard becoming a footballer is hard in real life .putting it in easy mode is easy borning you dont have to try

but it will be cool to have difficulty lvl that you can put it amature to world class ect it will be good for people that like easy things

The game is supposed to be a simulation therefore as close to real life as you can get. In real life for any club to win promotion, a trophy or the title it is very difficult and as lot of factors have to all come together. So the game should and does reflect just how difficult these things are to achieve. So no, the game for me has struck just the right balance currently and should not be any easier.

The game is easy enough if you know what your doing. I think some extra pointers though wont hurt. I know the assman gives you tips, but its knowing how to implement them that can be a problem.

Not boasting, nor am i a cheater but lets face it FM is too easy. If you stick at it you can take pretty much any team to champions league glory, which i'm not complaining about! I doubt i'd enjoy a 20 year career stuck in the lower leagues!

Debate regarding difficulty levels bound to start soon.

But, regarding this topic, I don't think the game should become easier as, at the moment, I find it a bit too easy to take an average side and get glory quickly. I get satisfaction out of the game by working hard and my work getting rewarded.

The game itself isn't difficult. If you end up with a team that's good enough, even somewhat poor tactics can be winning tactics.

However, the problem I sometimes have with the game is that there is very little actual feedback from the matches. The AM should tell me if it's useless to use this and that player in different positions and come with suggestions as to how to improve the situation. I don't mean that he should say "set the slider to this" but rather suggest I need to be more aggressive, pass it into the striker's feet more or provide free roles. Likewise, I need a reason for why the AM usually puts players who seem useless in a starting 11, when viewing selections.

They also seriously need to properly explain the slider system. It bothers me endlessly that there are so many things you can adjust but that you get zero feedback on how it actually plays out. The number of combinations you can make is mindboggling, even without taking into account that individual positions might also have some of their own. Because between players naturally fluctuating in performance, the ridiculous amount of combinations possible and the lack of feedback with what goes right and wrong on a pitch, it's nearly impossible to set a winning tactic without playing dozens of matches. I don't want an easy mode but I'm not a masochist either.

Essentially, the complexity of the tactics provides a hindrance rather than help when it comes to making a tactic. It keeps me from experimenting as I used to because the AI's instant reactions can punish you very harshly if you make a mistake. With a proper explanation of how it works, it would be easier to go back to experimenting without having to worry about what result you would have had if a slider had been slightly to the left or right.

I know a lot of you will be reading this and saying 'well it is only Rangers' and to your achievements, it probably is what you'd expect - but for me it's a start and something i'm quite proud of. I have strengthened over the summer, and now preparing for the new season. I'm hoping for good things now, and also wanting my unbeaten league streak to continue. But like I say, i'm not totally won over yet, because i'm quite scared to try managing in England. The standard is so much higher, plus the opposition are much closer to each others ability, and as you know, in Scotland that isn't the case.

I have since pre-ordered FM10 and really enjoying the game again.

My advice to anyone struggling to enjoy the game would be exactly what you have done.

Pick a good team you kind of like, in a relatively easier league. As long as you start getting results it doesn't matter who it's against. Your confidence and pleasure should improve, and you'll start wanting to get even better. That'll lead you to reading more (meaningfull things) on here and before you know it your knowledge will be increasing and you may feel confident enough to try a harder game/save - keep your old one though, in case you need to go back!

Now the game is geared only towards die-hards. I shouldn't HAVE to read through forums in the vain hope that I might gradually become a better manager. I simply don't have the time. Other games like FIFA / PES etc, I can pick up and play. FM is getting less and less possible to be able to do this with now, and the casual gamer like myself have now got disillusioned with the series.

I think that's one of the things against the game, it's not one you can put down for a week or so and get back to easily; luckily that doesn't affect me because I play kind of regularly.

One thing I find helpful - instead of using a pad for notes, run the game in windowed and use Excel for any notes or thoughts regarding ANYTHING in game. It's much easier once you fire up your save after 10 days to run through your notes than hunt through scraps of paper. You can even add sheets for all kinds of things, rather than shuffle sheets of paper. I use it for all kinds of things like squad rotations, tactical ideas and transfer targets.

The fact people (myself included) can guide a team from the BSN to Premiership & Champion's League glory shows the game is not as hard as it seems complex.

I think the fact it's more complex now works in the players favour if you take the time to carefully build your team with the right tactic. You can really punch above your weight and somewhat abuse the new 'difficulty.'

Absolutely - you get out the game exactly what you put in.

EDIT: for those of you mentioning people going season/s unbeaten - because you can't do it doesn't mean others can't. That seems like a reasonable statement and shouldn't see the thread derailed.

Absolutely - you get out the game exactly what you put in.

The problem is that what you have to put in to get success has changed in the last few versions. For those of us who don't give a stuff about tactics, that makes the game substantially less enjoyable.

Greater AI support and assistance for the user's tactics would be a valuable inclusion in 10.