Will Lower League youth academy produce only crap ?

I noticed that despiting have youth academy top facilities or whatever was called, lower leagues teams always produce crap out of them also after 20 years of tries.

I know talents, good players or crap grows everywhere and they may spot also on youth academies of poor clubs. Then eventually will be bought by bigger ones ok.

Will FM10 have the same routine letting them appear only on top team youth academy or there will be a small chance of seeing them also born into poor teams youth academy ? Not necessarily the poor team of the human player of course.

thanks

With Aldershot, I got a regen worth 4.5 million by the time he was 19. It happens albeit rarely.

Worth noting that in 5 regen years with the shots I have had one good player... PAUL BONE!!! (regen)

I am not strictly referring to talents, I am mainly referring to decent players instead.

I managed a lower league team ( climbed until coca cola ) for roughly 25 years and despiting have top youth academy and top youth trainer I always received crap, crap and only the cream of the crop of the crap. The average value was 2 and when the real talent surfaced it average value was 4.

Any chance to spot at least 1 decent player among 25 years with top academy ?

I managed my own pre made team and got promoted to the CCC from the BSN (in consecutive seasons) and hada top academy.

I had some great player coming through, Some got into the england team. sending them on loan and giving them first team exp was key. They sold for around 4 or 5 million at 18 too.

I manage mostly in the lower leagues and I can't think of a single player I've ever produced from the youth set-up who's turned out to be any use even in the Blue Square North. All I've had is cr_p.

Are you playing these kids ? or loaning them out for first team experience ?

Part of the progression of the players is first team football, also try changing training if you havent already

With Shrewsbury, I managed to find a player who by the age of 18 was a "good Premiership player", he was a striker. This was in the first batch of regens after the first season

Are you playing these kids ? or loaning them out for first team experience ?

Part of the progression of the players is first team football, also try changing training if you havent already

That leads to another question, which is better:

A/ sending a youth to a lower league team with poor coaches to gain match experience

B/ Keeping him under your own world class coaches, playing him in Reserves as a "step up"

This is more of an In Real Life question than a "game" question I would suggest.

I would say experience is key so maybe loan him out for half a season at a time.

I find them very rare, but one season managing Sutton United I had two regens just before the second season. They were both 16, one was an AMC the other a DMC.

John Woodman and John Phillips and they were both far better than what I had despite their young age!.

It was one of my most memorable saves (FM2007) and the almost single handedly win me back to back promotions to League Two. Then, the scouts started sniffing and I was almost relegated back to the Conference when they had shocking seasons.

My 5th Season at Sutton saw them return to form and I won promotion to League One via the playoffs.

I celebrated my 10th season and their 9th by winning promotion to the championship, but was instantly relegated and left Sutton to take over at Championship side Blackburn. My plan was to reunite the two John's but although I signed Woodman,Phillips didn't want to leave Sutton

Soon after joining Blackburn I lost interest in the game.

As Bradford, after a couple of season's I had a regen whom my coaches reckoned could become a decent premiership player. But I couldn't tie him down to a contract as Sheffield Wednesday came in and whisked him away.

Yes in my dafuge challenge save. In my 7 years in charge i've had only 1 player that would have been able to play in the first team potentially. Unfortunately it was when I was first promoted into the football league and he could already be able to play in the Championship. Before I could offer him a contract, Sheff Wed signed him for nothing Maybe I should complain to UEFA/FIFA about them 'tapping him up'

I manage mostly in the lower leagues and I can't think of a single player I've ever produced from the youth set-up who's turned out to be any use even in the Blue Square North. All I've had is cr_p.

That is exactly what I mean.

The best player that a top youth academy outputs within 25 years is so weak that he can't play into Blue Square sections.......you could easily imagine the other ones what are they good for.......

Any SI comment on that ?

SI put lot of attention on younger players but these facts seem to witness it relate to bigger teams only. Not fair.

Thanks

It's kind of tied to the base rating of your facilities, club, league, nation & location (City).

an acadamy has the chance to give a boost to the potential of 1+ newgens and the lower down the league structure you go the less impressive it gets.

The real issue is the AI development of said newgens, tutoring is done by the AI and PPM's seem to be done too, the default training they recieve however is shockingly abysmal ... Defenders are trained in Shooting, Strikers are trained in Defending, it's pathetic that SI continue to abuse thier userbase with continual substandard aspects of what is otherwise a good game.

Ive never had a great regen at any of my teams. They only seem to be at the top 4 or 5 teams, either through the academy or being bought at a very early age.

I think it should be a bit more random so theres a realistic chance of getting a gem even if you arent in Europe.

I barely get any players that would make it into the first team.. let alone premiership quality!

Well I'm in 2033 and at the moment the England squad I'm managing (of size 26) goes a bit like this:

Players from Premier League youth academies - 13

Players from Championship youth academies - 8

Players from League 1 youth academies - 3

Players from League 2 youth academies - 2

So 50% of the English superstars were only brought up at top leading sides, which to be honest I find quite surprising.

For my own youth team, in about 25 years, I've only produced 2 excellent players, despite having top facilities, although I have got quite a lot of money from unneeded decent players.

I haven't done an exact check in my game, but quite a few good players have come from League 1/2 sides. I know at least 4 England internationals are from this level; and its really what you'd expect. Really what do you expect though, the vast majority of good players in a region are snapped up by the big clubs, so if they come through at lower levels anyway its because they were overlooked along the way. I think the game reflects the real life situation quite well.

And depending upon what you mean about 'top' players - then 2 is quite a good outcome. So far I've been able to churn out 1 'top' player. As in a world class player, but there has been a good 20 - 30 players who are at championship/league 1 level and another 10 or so who are in the premiership now.

EDIT: it is also worth noting that the game creates newgens at around the age of 16 whereas in real life, the better young players might be switching to the youth systems of bigger clubs already before this age for various reasons.

You know I've always wondered why that was.

Why dont we see younger players coming through? I mean younger players at lower level teams, look at Andreas Ivanschitz, he had been playing at his local club from before he was even 10. It wasn't until he was 15 that he moved to Rapid Wien.

Granted those kids would be very weak in terms of skills, but it would be easier to mold them.

If you manage in the Brazilian league you get newgens at the age of 14-15

Newgens can come into the game from any points at 14 onwards, I've had a couple of 14 year olds at Stoke, and there's always some others through England because every newgen day I go to the transfer filter, set the age to 14 and scout loads of them to see if there is any players with good potential I can sign up, because when they're 14 you have 4/5 years training and moulding them before they get close to the first team and have 8/9 years making them the player you want them to be lol.

Lets be honest how many lower league clubs produce stars on a regualr basis? My local club, leyton orient haven't turned out a player who is above League 1 standard while i've known of the club. You get the odd star (Micah Richards and Oldham) but they happen once or twice a century.

So whenever i get a batch of new young players or for example "player x" has became eligible for a contract and the scout (with decent judging player potential ability) tells me i should look to offload the player, he is correct and there is no point waiting to see if they develop?

I've also never been sure what effect youth coaches have on potential of youth players, or whether the whole thing is just luck.

i was doing Dafuge's challenge and managing Merthyr who have reasonable youth facilities.

In the BSS and BSP i had several youth players come through at L1 standard and with championship/prem potential. When i reached the prem they were still around playing in the prem. Quite a few others were at L1 potential.

The standard of players coming through in the prem and the championship seemed to me to be of a worse standard even though i had top facilities by that stage.

Incidently first team games is always the best way for a player to improve, they stagnate playing in the reserves after a while.

In my Blyth game (currently in 2018) I got a couple of decent regens in my first few seasons, one that still plays in my first squad, but since leaving the BSP league I didn't get anywhere near a decent regen. Strange, you would expect that with the rise of reputation you would get at least a semi-decent player...

What's also strange is that despite producing fairly average players, my under 18s team is absolutely sublime - they've won their league about 10 years in a row, and seem to thrash everyone they play.

Lets be honest how many lower league clubs produce stars on a regualr basis? My local club, leyton orient haven't turned out a player who is above League 1 standard while i've known of the club. You get the odd star (Micah Richards and Oldham) but they happen once or twice a century.

Crewe has been pretty good at turning out good players on a regular basis. I know that has been one of the reasons they have kept afloat was due to the money they have made nurturing young talent. Are they all world beaters, no but they are solid players. It can be done in real life, it seems to not really happen in the game.

Can you even get 'top youth facilities' in a lower league without cheatin?! Bought my best ever defender from a non-league italian club and now he's worth 30 million, and I wouldnt sell him for 10x that.

So you wouldn't sell him for 300 million, which would essentially allow you to buy a lot more players of his quality?

I've produced decent enough players for my first team over the years that I have been playing FM. Few have gone on to bigger things but many have come to play a big part in my team. There are many that end up being released because it just does not work out for them, but I find that is more often than not with any club. I follow the goings on at AFC Bournemouth very closely and the youth setup is pretty much the same as I see in FM. Sam Vokes began at Bournemouth and has moved on to Wolves and now Joe Partington is looking to become a very good player. He's on the fringes of the main squad now. Bournemouth do have a very talented youth team coach in Joe Roach.

Okay, so what to I get from this information? I get that it takes work to produce solid youngsters in FM. You can't just leave the game on basic and let it manage your youth setup. You have to manage your youth setup yourself and keep a close eye on the development of players. If the game tells you that someone has potential then it's a good idea to keep an eye on them.

I tend to follow a series of pointers when trying to up the quality of my youth set up:

1. At the beginning of each new season I assess the new intake of youth and further assess the current youth. Each player gains a rating that I will keep and eye on and alter as I see fit.

2. I set a solid training schedule for Goalkeeper, Defenders, Midfielders and Forwards in my youth. I see no point in specific training at a young age, that will come as they develop. They need to progress in the basics now.

3. I get a solid youth coach in; someone I feel can bring something to my youth rather than anyone who applies.

4. The best players will be assigned a first team player to learn from or train with. I may not get this right first time but when you find two players who work well together then you'll really notice the benefits. Don't limit them just to players of the same position either, mix it about a bit. I don't necessarily mean training a youth defender with a striker, but someone with similar stats.

5. I try to get youth teamers to broaden their positional depth by training them in new positions. I don't know if this makes a huge difference but I always figured it gives them more experience, gives me more options (a youth teamer who may not be the best but whom can play all across the back four is better than a youth teamer with poorer stats and only plays as a left back) and never seems to produce an undesired effect in player's happiness. So it must be doing something right.

I do this for the first team too. That is to say every players gets some extra positional training.

6. Send the most promising players out on loan and/or try to play them in limited roles in the first team. A few seasons at a club a youth teamer begins to like will do him the world of good. A few sub appearances in first team games will be great too. Don't put too much pressure on them though as set backs won't help.

7. If I really had more time I would manage reserve fixtures so that I can watch youth teamers for myself week, in week out. It takes me long enough already, to be honest.

Well that's what I do, but I play FM very slowly indeed. It may take me a few weeks to run a season. I don't think you are going to be entirely successful if you run through seasons in a day or two. Building a great youth setup is going to take patience and hard work.

3. I get a solid youth coach in; someone I feel can bring something to my youth rather than anyone who applies.

4. The best players will be assigned a first team player to learn from or train with. I may not get this right first time but when you find two players who work well together then you'll really notice the benefits. Don't limit them just to players of the same position either, mix it about a bit. I don't necessarily mean training a youth defender with a striker, but someone with similar stats.

5. I try to get youth teamers to broaden their positional depth by training them in new positions. I don't know if this makes a huge difference but I always figured it gives them more experience, gives me more options (a youth teamer who may not be the best but whom can play all across the back four is better than a youth teamer with poorer stats and only plays as a left back) and never seems to produce an undesired effect in player's happiness. So it must be doing something right.

I have a few thoughts on your points:

What makes for a good youth coach? Personally i have never worked this out.

Tutoring or learning can be very difficult as the first teamers can become upset with personality differences. Also you can only get players tutored by a player in the same position and preferably a similar personality.

Training for new positions takes up ability points, meaning a player will never reach their full potential, i only do this if they have awful attributes for their natural position.

I have a few thoughts on your points:

What makes for a good youth coach? Personally i have never worked this out.

Tutoring or learning can be very difficult as the first teamers can become upset with personality differences. Also you can only get players tutored by a player in the same position and preferably a similar personality.

Training for new positions takes up ability points, meaning a player will never reach their full potential, i only do this if they have awful attributes for their natural position.

Youth coaching ability for starters. Now I'm doing the rest from memory because I haven't really played FM for a while (I'm addicted to MMOs, but the hype's building now that we're hearing about FM10) but I'd go for discipline stats as well as motivating and management stats. Judging potential stats are useful but not the most important.

Yeah, the tutoring is hit and miss but if you find a good match it can have a great effect where as a bad mix doesn't really warrant avoiding tutoring. Just eb careful who you mix together in that situation. Letting you star youth player be tutored by the team rebel is obviously not good.

Well it depends where you manage. In the Premiership you won't need a lot of players who can play other positions, but in the lower leagues a bit of adaptability is going to really boost your chances because you'll have a smaller squad. I suppose, thinking about it a bit more, it would be wise not to train a really good prospect in too many positions, but training a left midfielder to play higher up the pitch is never going to hurt him.

I don't claim to be a tactical genius, but these are the methods I use. I am also positive that developing great youth is a full time job, not something that can be done in a hasty manner. You have to work at it.

Well, having a high working with young players attribute helps I believe. Then, just good coaching ability.

Even if a lower league club has top youth facilities and a youth academy setup, they are still a lower league club and their reputation also plays a part in attracting young players into their youth system.

Is FM10 reputation truly dynamic depending on results ?

Even if a lower league club has top youth facilities and a youth academy setup, they are still a lower league club and their reputation also plays a part in attracting young players into their youth system.

Is FM10 club reputation truly dynamic depending on results achieved after years ?

Training for new positions takes up ability points, meaning a player will never reach their full potential, i only do this if they have awful attributes for their natural position.

It does not take up ability points, no. What it does is take up training time, and it also reweights the cost of ability points. (There is a long thread about the peculiarities of this particular model, and apparently something is changing in FM10.)

I sign most of my players from lower league sides. My current side is made up of:

Chesterfield GK

Halifax DR- real DC (i.e. not a regen)- Sofia DC- Reading DL (I'm Reading)

Real AMR- Bolton MC- Sevilla MC- Perth Glory AML

Preston ST- Roma ST

So:

3 players I didn't sign (both the AMR and the DC are really Reading players)

3 players from lower league academies

2 international lower league academy players

2 international big team academy players

1 domestic big team academy player (well, top flight...)