Referees: should they be more dodgy? More biased?

In real life a lot of referees make a name for themselves. Whether it is Howard Webb handing out dodgy penalties, or Tom Ovrebo forgetting that they even exist, referees often shine in the limelight. However, in the FM world they are overlooked and barely noticed. There are no celebrity referees or referees with a reputation of bias. It often feels like all referees are the same.

Should there be more dodgy referees in the Football Manager world? Ones that have a history of bias against certain clubs, or a reputation of making life easy for them? After the Chelsea-Barcelona match last year I remember thinking the controversial events could not happen in FM. An obvious disaster of a refereeing performance would never cost you in a big match.

Would it be better if referees had more influence, for better or worse, in the FM world? Should certain referees (even if only the regen refs) garner reputations and become huge talking points? Referees are a huge part of football, but only a small part of Football Manager.

In my last season with Standard I lost three games, all three were 1-0 with the opposition keeper being MoTM, all three goals were dodgy ( 2 offside one non-penalty) each time I bitched about it to the F.A and they remained 'silent'. There should be no vageries in refereeing in the game. Its a nonsense to have referees make 'incorrect' decisions since its all made up. Anything like this is just going annoy the user.

I actually like AbsoluteGenius's concept. Referees are such a massive part of football but vastly small part within the game. Obviously only the regen refs would have the reputations created. Would also give press conferences another dimension.

I think that it would also be great if you could release certain media statements about refs that could see you punished.

In theory, the referee should be pretty non-existent. Of course, this doesn't happen in real life, because referees make mistakes, or people think the referees made mistakes.

I like the idea of giving the game a little bit more flavor, but I have a feeling that SI wouldn't want to add this for the same reason they don't have fights/brawls in game.

But its all a part of modern football! I was going to say that I have never seen fights/brawls within a game. Again something that would add dimensions to off the pitch issues making your football world feel more 'real'

they need video evidence it shouid have been brought in years ago

I agree that it is a part of modern football, but I doubt SI would want to implement it.

they need video evidence it shouid have been brought in years ago

I'm not a fan of video evidence myself, football should be the same at all levels

Good idea imo

Yes and away teams never getting a penalty at Old Trafford should be hard coded into the game!

Check the after match report and it will tell you if a ref has been biased or not, it happens fairly often.

I'm not a fan of video evidence myself, football should be the same at all levels

Disagree, in major competitions(WC, EC, CL etc), the refs have more outcome on any game that any single player, that shouldnt be the case. Any goal, penalty or red card should be subject to video evidence. It would actually speed up the game as players spend longer arguing over a bad decision anyway. It would also massively cut down on cheating.

Of course video evidence isnt needed at all level because the amount of cheating declines more the further you go down the pyramid. even the BSP has virtually no cheating.

Use it for top league level, euro comp and internationals only.

But its all a part of modern football! I was going to say that I have never seen fights/brawls within a game. Again something that would add dimensions to off the pitch issues making your football world feel more 'real'

Its not fun though, first priority should be is this fun? if no dont do it, otherwise we get nonsense like press conferences and Im sure 10 will have at leat one amazingly bad feature thats 'realistic'.

For me the realistic element is the fun

There should be no vageries in refereeing in the game. Its a nonsense to have referees make 'incorrect' decisions since its all made up. Anything like this is just going annoy the user.

I agree with earmack on this. It's frustrating in real life and frustrating in the game for the outcome of a match to hinge on the mistakes or biases of officials. It's not something I consider to be good gameplay design.

Disagree, in major competitions(WC, EC, CL etc), the refs have more outcome on any game that any single player, that shouldnt be the case. Any goal, penalty or red card should be subject to video evidence. It would actually speed up the game as players spend longer arguing over a bad decision anyway. It would also massively cut down on cheating.

Of course video evidence isnt needed at all level because the amount of cheating declines more the further you go down the pyramid. even the BSP has virtually no cheating.

Use it for top league level, euro comp and internationals only.

Personally i wouldn't want to see video evidence in games as i'm not a fan either but i would like to see it used more after games to review incidents and then either impose fines or bans or drop incorrect bookings, like in Eduardo's case getting banned for diving.

Massive fights/brawls during a game would definately not get into the game but maybe a little bit of pushing and arguing after a bad foul or something like that, happens alot these days.

"Fights and brawls" would be fantastic in the game! There is no reason why SI would not want to include such realism: the software is complex enough that children are not able (or interested) in playing it, so there is no risk of losing market share.

Plus, there *is* violence in FM/WSM. Just watch those rough tackles followed by physio assistance and red cards regularly involving the same Argentinean or African butchers, and tell me that is not violence...

A fight and brawl in 2d would be funny. Loads of dots congregating and moving side to side

Massive fights/brawls during a game would definately not get into the game but maybe a little bit of pushing and arguing after a bad foul or something like that, happens alot these days.

players can also punch other players and the referee in this version.

I think it would be good to have the occasional terrible ref, but I wouldn't want bad refereeing defining an entire season

"Fights and brawls" would be fantastic in the game! There is no reason why SI would not want to include such realism: the software is complex enough that children are not able (or interested) in playing it, so there is no risk of losing market share.

Plus, there *is* violence in FM/WSM. Just watch those rough tackles followed by physio assistance and red cards regularly involving the same Argentinean or African butchers, and tell me that is not violence...

Hehe i was like 6 years old when i started playing (CM00-01 i believe), i barely knew what i was doing, but enjoyed it alot. Anyway it would make a good feature but SI probably feel there are more important things they can put into the game, but i would back it up to add it in future versions.

I'd be happy with refs making more wrong decisions in game. Can't remember if refs have real names in game, if so there would be licensing issues with implementing it.

Disagree, in major competitions(WC, EC, CL etc), the refs have more outcome on any game that any single player, that shouldnt be the case. Any goal, penalty or red card should be subject to video evidence. It would actually speed up the game as players spend longer arguing over a bad decision anyway. It would also massively cut down on cheating.

Of course video evidence isnt needed at all level because the amount of cheating declines more the further you go down the pyramid. even the BSP has virtually no cheating.

Use it for top league level, euro comp and internationals only.

All rubbish. A referee does not have more influence than a player. If Drogba had scored any of the chances in the CL semi, Chelsea may have gone through. If Iniesta had missed his chance, it would have gone to extra time. If Ballack had got to the rebound from his shot rather than chasing the ref, Chelsea would have gone through. Only 1 of the decisions was probably a penalty.

Cheating is just as common further down. Look at Sunday league matches where everybody gets roughed up. Look at the Championship, where Kevin Doyle got kicked off the park every match. Saying there is no cheating in the BSP is naive and ignorant.

I'm not a fan of video evidence myself, football should be the same at all levels

There are no fourth officials in most Sunday matches. Linesman tend to be club nominated too. So, should we scrap fourth officials? Should a fan run the line for Manchester United?

BTW, brawls are in the game, but only if 22 regens are playing.

I'm not a fan of video evidence myself, football should be the same at all levels

Million of pounds aren't riding on a decision at the lowest level though.

Million of pounds aren't riding on a decision at the lowest level though.

No agreed, but a game should be the same regardless of level IMO.

No agreed, but a game should be the same regardless of level IMO.

But it already isn't...

I would happy if referees actually gave advantages, you know, like real football... I am surprised at you people. I thought you'd be asking about simpler things in the game, you know, that can actually give it some realism.

We don't need any fancy referee ideas, not before we have some that use basic football rules. Don't give SI ideas.

While it would add realism to the game, I can just imagine the amount of threads on the forum titled: "Crazy Ref!!!" & "WTF are wrong with the refs?!" & "Why are the refs biased?!" Unfortunately some real-life elements such as ref mistakes won't make it into the game(imo). But what do you guys think about crowd trouble in a fierce derby match?

All rubbish.

Summed up your post perfectly, I witnessed one dive in 15 years of playing football, take a 5 minute segment out of any PL game and you will see more than that. I see more dives in 1 PL game than I saw in the whole season of BSP the last time it was on Setanta. Anyone who doesnt see more cheating in higher level games is blind.

No agreed, but a game should be the same regardless of level IMO.

FIFA are having extra officials on the outside of posts, they are changing the game anyway because that wont filter down to all levels. Id rather they get it right with replays than more people who are going to make mistakes.

In my opinion, when there is more at stakes, there should be videos in real life. Btw, Eduardo was just punished based on video evidence, wasn't him?

Tennis started to use it, and you don't see video challenges in low level matches.

About the game, I do believe there are plenty of questionable decisions. I've seen for myself some, favouring me or the opposition. One of my players has dived at least 2-3 times to get us a PK.

Cheers,

Tele

In my opinion, when there is more at stakes, there should be videos in real life. Btw, Eduardo was just punished based on video evidence, wasn't him?

Tennis started to use it, and you don't see video challenges in low level matches.

About the game, I do believe there are plenty of questionable decisions. I've seen for myself some, favouring me or the opposition. One of my players has dived at least 2-3 times to get us a PK.

Cheers,

Tele

Yeah Eduardo was only punished after the game and i would rather see more of that irl before video evidence was used to make decisions in games.

How many dodgy decisions, per division, are there per week? I mean really dodgy ones, not just ones where the manager gives off stink for no reason. 5, maybe 6 at most and never for the same team. You'd have to watch every match in the division to know if it's being implemented properly or not, you don't know how many you've missed as you only watch one match.

Summed up your post perfectly, I witnessed one dive in 15 years of playing football, take a 5 minute segment out of any PL game and you will see more than that. I see more dives in 1 PL game than I saw in the whole season of BSP the last time it was on Setanta. Anyone who doesnt see more cheating in higher level games is blind.

Hyperbole is the best thing ever!

The reason people think there is more cheating at higher levels is because we can see the replays and listen to endless whinging for weeks afterwards. How hard is that to figure out?

Referees already make mistakes on FM. It's just that we don't have whinging scoucers and chelsea fans sending them death threats.