Diving: should it be given a slider? A stat? A preferred move?

Diving is a very big part of the football world that is underrepresented in Football Manager. In real life big matches have been impacted by diving, but in FM that never happens. There is the issue of offside goals, but never the issue of dodgy penalties/sending offs. It is like a perfect footballing world where diving hardly exists.

Should diving be given more attention? For example, should there be a diving slider? As a manager should we be able to instruct our players how often they should dive? Or maybe a diving statistic for each player (e.g. 20 for Eduardo)? Or even a preferred move (e.g. "Likes to dive when through on goal")?

Diving: should it have a bigger role in the game?

Not solely but many of the foreigners dive in todays game, and its a huge talking point especially at the minute. I think there has to be something.

Maybe if a player is unsporting or unprofessional they would naturally dive more?

This should never be a controllable feature, imagine having an option in a rugby manager to carry a fake blood capsule onto a field of play?

Unsportsmanlike behaviour, its part of the modern RL game so as long as its under the control of a stat not a slider then it can be part of a reputable manager sim

Isn't this already in the game? I've definitely had a striker booked because he dived, and I'm fairly sure that I've got a penalty from a dive before.

I cannot think why it would not be in a manager sim as part of a players personality but the OP was asking about a slider to control it.

It should really be hidden or as part of a more general stat controlling a players personality.

Not a slider no. A personality trait which you can (un)train.

I don't think SI should advocate unsporting behaviour by allowing us to tell players to dive. However if a player had a sportsmanship attribute then that could influence whether the player dives

it might make real player angry or sue if they have a high diving stat. so i think it shudnt be in the game

Isn't this already in the game? I've definitely had a striker booked because he dived, and I'm fairly sure that I've got a penalty from a dive before.

This topic just reminded me of the CM10 demo that I downloaded. My Hucknall save on CM on average saw a yellow card a game for diving. I would like to see diving become a bigger part of Football Manager just so long as they don't do what they have done in the other game, making it happen way... way to often.

Maybe it is covered already. Maybe it is more likely to see players with low "professionalism" and "sportsmanship" attributes dive

im sure i have seen this, but the game commentary doesnt judge. usually it says things like "it looked liked he dived" or "he surely took a dive there" and ive had penalties like it.

i think it seems less obvious as the graphics cant represent a dive well enough, but i dont think a manager should influence it in anyway but perhaps there could be a way to handle in the media and in the press confrences.

On rare occasions I have seen players carded for diving, but it has never changed the outcome of a game. I have never conceded or gained a penalty due to a dive.

I have. Diving is in the game, and influenced by sportsmanship and professionalism attributes. That is enough.

No, no and no.

Eduardo wouldnt be a 20, he did one major dive. Drogba on the other had would be whatever the max is, he rolls around if he gets touched by a mild breeze.

Eduardo wouldnt be a 20, he did one major dive. Drogba on the other had would be whatever the max is, he rolls around if he gets touched by a mild breeze.

eduardos probably dived less than rooney and gerrard too

Agree with SCIAG - it is already in the game. The hidden mental traits influence how likely a player is to try it and therefore we don't need a PPM for it.

Regards,

C.

There is definitely already diving in the game, but there isn't and never will be any kind of directly responsible statistic related to it because of the legal ramifications. If SI were to give so-and-so player a high "diving rating" what's to stop that player turing round and suing SI for defamation?

To the twit who said "many of the foreigners dive in todays game". I suppose they're genetically disposed to diving? Rooney certainly wouldn't dive twice in a week, he's such an honest player.

Before sports interactive could even look at any aspect of "Diving" you have to define what it actually means. If you mean go down softly then yes i would instruct my players to do that to reduce the risk of injury, take Rooney against Arsenal last week, Almunia came rushing out, Rooney knew he would get just enough contact to go down softly, he didn't dive, he just didnt make any attempt to stay on his feet, is this diving? no, he was fouled, doesn't matter how softly, a foul in the penalty area is a penalty.

If you want to instruct players to deceive the referee however then i disagree that sports interactive should allow a manager to do that, it brings the game into disrepute and as such is against the fundamental rules of FIFA.

Its something we are trying to stamp out of the game as it ruins it, trying to cheat your fellow professionals, potentially out of millions of pounds. I dont want to see diving introduced, but i wouldn't mind seeing a slider to control how easily your players go down.

People are saying the hidden attributes determine if a player will dive. The only hidden attribute is Sportsmanship, there are unsporting players that don't dive, take Joey Barton for instance he is not a well known diver yet he is unsporting.

You can use FMRTE to add diving to a players preferred moves if you want to.

Does that actually do anything its not in the normal FM editor so I can only guess that its superficial.

To the twit who said "many of the foreigners dive in todays game". I suppose they're genetically disposed to diving? Rooney certainly wouldn't dive twice in a week, he's such an honest player.

Nor would Michael Owen. There are two things that annoy me about the debate on diving in football 1) that only foreigners would do something so underhanded and devious, and that Home Nation players are too virtuous to indulge in it, Terry was saying during the week that not diving holds England back, utter bulls*** about the not diving; and 2) that it generally masks a more serious problem in the game, that of dirty tackling and deliberately trying to get the most skillful players of the pitch by dangerous tackles. In fact it is not all that uncommon for a player justifiably jumping over a dangerous tackle to be labled a diver just because he doesn't like having a broken leg.

On the matter of the slider I would rather see something like a "use of ball" option in the game first, where you could emphasise one touch, dribbling, safety, etc. styles for players and teams. I know it is somewhat covered already by the current sliders, but it can be hard sometimes to get the players doing what I want them to with the ball, I like give and go, with dribbling out wide, when I get a lot of ball over the top.

Not a slider no. A personality trait which you can (un)train.

Furthermore if your coach leaves on bad terms or there is a media leak, perhaps it could lose you reputation or introduce more media events where you're subject to a slating.

The reverse obviously applies also.

I think it's already represented well enough. Players already dive, the only difference is that there isn't that much of a media presence to over-hype it like there is IRL.

It would be a nice idea to have it called upon in press conferences but then again, the 3D isn't so good that we could actually tell.

It would be a good idea for reality but i dont see where it would play in the game. Yeah players would dive in the game but isnt that what everyone is trying to to get out of the game?

Well, if it's a stat, C. Ronaldo should have a 20.

Well, if it's a stat, C. Ronaldo should have a 20.

Along with many others!

It should be in the game, one way or another.

Eduardo wouldnt be a 20, he did one major dive. Drogba on the other had would be whatever the max is, he rolls around if he gets touched by a mild breeze.

So is C ronaldo ...

I doubt SI would be able to put a diving attribute or preferred move in the game as player's lawyers would probably get involved.

And to anyone saying it's only foreign players who dive, what absolute crap. Gerrard, Owen, Joe Cole, Rooney, Beckham to name 5 recent England internationals I've seen diving. There's a difference in attitude to diving amongst the majority of people in Britain compared to other countries, but it's as frequent here as anywhere.

Not sure about the 'legality' question. Surely players don't take well to being give low 'professionalism' stats?

Should it ever be in FM? No of course not. It is something in real football that should never be in the game and has got a little out of control. Why make it ok in a game when its certainly not ok in real life.

Not sure about the 'legality' question. Surely players don't take well to being give low 'professionalism' stats?

I don't know as I'm not a lawyer, but they don't put those negative headlines in for real players on FM, so it could be like that. The professionalism thing is a hidden attribute as well so I guess that might be different. Also players with low professionalism are never described as that in game.

I think it is fine as it is working off those attributes.

However I also think, then, arguing with officials should also be based off that and not a PPM.

Are any real players described as un-sporting I had a regen with that on one of my games, he was still the best regen ever and I never noticed him cheating.

People are saying the hidden attributes determine if a player will dive. The only hidden attribute is Sportsmanship, there are unsporting players that don't dive, take Joey Barton for instance he is not a well known diver yet he is unsporting.

True. Sportsmanship's a bit vague.

But, for a dirty player like Barton, I'd guess it'd be sportsmanship, aggression and temperament combining

for a diver, perhaps sportsmanship and flair - flair players tend to be the ones who dive, if only because they're the ones who get in the position to dive, as they take on defenders.

Joey Barton might dive - but he doesn't really make runs into the box.

For those who say Rooney dives, I'd say mildly in his defence that he hasn't done it for quite a few seasons. The one against Arsenal was clearly not a dive, only being called so because Arsenal were annoyed over the Eduardo incident - he just anticipated the contact, and let it come.

The one against Slovenia is actually just him stretching for the ball and fouling the defender with a sliding tackle. He looks surprised to get the penalty.

But he's pulled off some big dives in the past, as have Gerrard, Joe Cole and Owen. They get away with it because they're "good old boys" - hearts on their sleeve and all that - so the press love them.

It's why Gerrard used to stamp on people, but never really got stuck with the "dirty" label that a foreign player would get - I think Shearer stamped on a guy as well, and never had it held against him. It's why Sven Goran Erickson and C.Ronaldo (I NEVER understood this) got blamed when Rooney kicked a defender in the balls (I didn't hear one pundit say before the game "Sven should know not to play Rooney upfront - he will become frustrated and get sent off.").

It's why Terry doesn't have the worst reputation in football, despite frequent dirty play, and why he seems to save goals with his hands with impunity.

It's also why there shouldn't be a specific "diving" attribute - it's too subjective.

People always see their favourites as "riding challenges" and others as diving. But no one claims that Ronaldo is a sporting kind of guy, even if they say he doesn't dive. Some like Gerrard will slip through because of their "great team player" reputation (he's actually the most selfish player in the prem, now that C.Ron's gone) but it will make the data at least less contentious.

Hello everybody,

I don't think it should be controlable. Should be random and should be inbuilt into some players to do it more often than others. Would be hell exciting to see your player go down in the box, the play stops, ref slowly walks over and you dont know if its a penalty or a yellow card for diving yes?

I always thought diving or overreatacting was part of the beautiful game. Sure diving is cheating kinda however if you do get fouled or the opposition makes contact with you in the box I am sure everyone acts more damaged then they really did right?

I dont want to see diving introduced, but i wouldn't mind seeing a slider to control how easily your players go down.

Maybe an intensity slider that determines how hard your players will push themselves in a game? Low means to go down easily to avoid injury, no 50-50 tackles, generally stay out of trouble. High means to get stuck in as much as possible, take every half chance presented and play as though the result means the absolute world.

I don't think a slider would work for how players to go down easily it is more if a hidden stat but sir liam is right about the legal side.

Plus there is the case of what is a dive as some players just fall.

Don't referee's have stats too?

So you could have a player who is unsporting and dives, and have a ref that is better/worse at spotting unsporting behaviour. So the player who dives would get away with it in some games and not in others, depending on the referee.

And players should be banned in the game if they are found to be diving or constantly diving to gain an advantage. It could be then the Player Instructions to tell them to "Stay on his feet when tackled" or "Don't go down too easy". The player will then have to work on his game to get better and not being booked for diving or being banned.

You should also be allowed to complain about a referee if they don't spot the diving and the referee should be getting punished with bans or relegated to refereeing lower leagues.

Can't be that hard?