Will stadium seats cost zilions of trillions of euros also in FM10 ?

I remember in FM10 extra seats cost was around 50 years of yearly budget for 2-3000 seats only. Cocacola league team BTW.

Can we expect their cost will be the same ? I hope it will be reduced by roughly 9000%.

thanks

I am surprised no one have boosted and seconded my thread guys..

Have you ever bought extra in seats in lower leagues ?

Did you perhaps notice that a small bunch of them will cost your team roughly 50 years of game budget ??????

Extra seats means expansion of the stadium. This expansion is quite expensive IRL. I don't see any point for reducing the costs.

BTW Why would a lower league club expand it's stadium with 3000 seats? Isn't that a little bit too much?

Think of the trouble teams like Liverpool and Everton have with stadium funding. How often do we see expansions in lower leagues? It can be very expensive to add on to stadia.

It would be easier to comment if you gave figures.

Look at what the new grounds cost. A price of € 3-4m per 1,000 seats is realistic and expanding is always more expensive than building a new ground.

I remember in FM10 extra seats cost was around 50 years of yearly budget for 2-3000 seats only. Cocacola league team BTW.

Can we expect their cost will be the same ? I hope it will be reduced by roughly 9000%.

thanks

Not sure how you can remember FM10. Care to send me a copy?

In my current network game managing in the SPL (with all players agreeing not to play as the old fim... im a Rangers fan).

I got Hibs stadium expanded by 5000 seats and it cost £10m

seems perfectly reasonable and i was able to sell 1-2 players to cover the costs.

My team, Brighton, are building a brand new stadium at the moment. A shade under 23,000 seats, all-seater, underpitch heating, arch-roof (Wembley style)- the total cost is £90m. So jayahr's estimate of 3-4m per 1000 seats is fairly realistic. What isn't mentioned is we've been campaigning for it for 12 years, playing at an athletics track that's brought in such little money we've nearly been driven out of business. I'd say the finances for player purchases in-game are still off, but stadium wise, they're nigh-on perfect. Usually takes an absolute age, and costs an absolute bomb.

I am surprised no one have boosted and seconded my thread guys..

Have you ever bought extra in seats in lower leagues ?

Did you perhaps notice that a small bunch of them will cost your team roughly 50 years of game budget ??????

First, you need planning permission, which costs. Then someone to design it, which costs. Then be able to fit additonal access for more fans to get to the ground, which costs.... anyway, you get the point. Expansions are very expensive, especially if the ground/stand is expanded upwards (height wise).

Jeees, its not like buying a set of deck chairs you know.

Re thread title : Will stadium seats cost zilions of trillions of euros also in FM10 ?

I've told you a million gazzilion times to stop exagerrating

To be fair to the lad, it is a problem in the lower leagues.

In my Marine game for Dafuge's challenge, I had stadium expansions of 148 and 151 seats 2 seasons on the trot.

The cost?

A princely £1million for each expansion.

At nearly £7,000 a seat, they better have been feckin covered in gold for that price...

This was at a time when the club only had between £100-£300k in the bank.

How much were your tickets? I would guess around 10-15 quid per match? That would mean in about 10 seasons you have paid everything off and will make profit (minus upkeep costs) from then on. That's not too bad an investment, although doing it when the club only had 100-300k in the bank seems a bit extravagant.

To be fair to the lad, it is a problem in the lower leagues.

In my Marine game for Dafuge's challenge, I had stadium expansions of 148 and 151 seats 2 seasons on the trot.

The cost?

A princely £1million for each expansion.

At nearly £7,000 a seat, they better have been feckin covered in gold for that price...

This was at a time when the club only had between £100-£300k in the bank.

The biggest problem here would be that a large amount of that cost was probbaly the expanding side. If they had given you 299 seats in one go, it'd probably have been more like 1.5 mil total, so £5k a seat.

Even then though, it#'s too few. Teams should really have to be adding a minimum amount before they will commit to an expansion, unless their stadium can be very cheaply upgraded (by, say, filling in bits left ready for just a purpose).

Sorry to say that mates, but I'm quite bored of answers reporting facts relative to Premier League only where money flaw like a charm, despiting extra seats may be expensive or not.

Have you ever tried to manage a lower league club ? Even adding 2000 seats may cost you 50 to 80 game years of budget, without spending anything else to buy players of course. Insane indeed.

The only way is to buy young promises and hope they will be eventually sold at relative quite high prices in order to allow , after years , the necessary amount of money.

I think that after let's say 6/8 good years a lower league club should be allowed at least to expand its stadium of 2-3000 seats without spending 5 milions where the annual budget for transfers is usually set on 100.000 euro only.

Sorry to say that mates, but I'm quite bored of answers reporting facts relative to Premier League only where money flaw like a charm, despiting extra seats may be expensive or not.

Have you ever tried to manage a lower league club ? Even adding 2000 seats may cost you 50 to 80 game years of budget, without spending anything else to buy players of course. Insane indeed.

The only way is to buy young promises and hope they will be eventually sold at relative quite high prices in order to allow , after years , the necessary amount of money.

I think that after let's say 6/8 good years a lower league club should be allowed at least to expand its stadium of 2-3000 seats without spending 5 milions where the annual budget for transfers is usually set on 100.000 euro only.

Isnt this just like real life? I cant remember many lower league grounds in England being expanded anyway.

My team, Brighton, are building a brand new stadium at the moment. A shade under 23,000 seats, all-seater, underpitch heating, arch-roof (Wembley style)- the total cost is £90m. So jayahr's estimate of 3-4m per 1000 seats is fairly realistic. What isn't mentioned is we've been campaigning for it for 12 years, playing at an athletics track that's brought in such little money we've nearly been driven out of business. I'd say the finances for player purchases in-game are still off, but stadium wise, they're nigh-on perfect. Usually takes an absolute age, and costs an absolute bomb.

this athletics track stadium has the WORST away stand ive ever been in its about 200m from the pitch

When you climb from a lower division to an upper one you are supposed to expand a bit your stadium, or not ?

Well, try to do the same in FM09 and you will shape what I'm meaning

this athletics track stadium has the WORST away stand ive ever been in its about 200m from the pitch

Hmm, Pompeys old away stand was pretty horrific n'all. Especially on a cold wet winter evening!

When you climb from a lower division to an upper one you are supposed to expand a bit your stadium, or not ?

Well, try to do the same in FM09 and you will shape what I'm meaning

Only if league rules dictate a stadium must have certain criteria, and even then you generally get a time-frame to do the work in.

this athletics track stadium has the WORST away stand ive ever been in its about 200m from the pitch

I've been there twice and you can't see the goal on the other side of the pitch.

Awful stadium, but nice club. Good luck in getting into Falmer, as I hear its been less than easy persuading the council. How are all your ex-County players getting on?

Ok understood, you never fiddled with lower league teams.

Ok understood, you never fiddled with lower league teams.

Actually, ive taken Gateshead from the BSN to the premier league on 09, so yes i do.

Actually, ive taken Gateshead from the BSN to the premier league on 09, so yes i do.

How many seats did you add during your path and do you remember how much did you spend ?

I remember I was charged around 4.5 milions for my first 3000 extra seats once reached Cocacola. I also remember my transfer budget was around 100k and my overall budget was around 1.2M.

Now tell me, how a player is supposed to afford such an expense ? I managed to do that just for the sake of luck, during the order I had 5M cause of sold players by board but that ruined all my plans. I wasn't told about the price of course.

Hmm, Pompeys old away stand was pretty horrific n'all. Especially on a cold wet winter evening!

They put a roof on it last season, we managed to stay dry watching Chelsea there last season... until we left and it ****ed it down all the way to fratton station.

I've just got AFC Wimbledon into the premiership for the 2016/17 season. We expanded once by about 3000 seats for around £2.5 mil. We're moving into a new 17,000 seater stadium which is costing about £18 mil next season, being paid off over about 20 years.

I've been there twice and you can't see the goal on the other side of the pitch.

Awful stadium, but nice club. Good luck in getting into Falmer, as I hear its been less than easy persuading the council. How are all your ex-County players getting on?

Yeah its been a trial. The stadium is really taking shape now, very exciting every time I drive past!

Stockport & Hove Albion, as we're now known lol, are doing ok. Dicker is very very capable, like him a lot. Dickinson is absolute class, could be a problem holding onto him. Tunnicliffe looks very solid at the back, if a little positionally dodgy, but he's only 20-21 so that'll come with experience. Only game I've got to this year was Stockport-Brighton which we lost 4-2 with 2 pens and 3 red cards, crazy game, crazy ref. No amount of good players poached from a broke team can save you from that!!

grep - If you want things changed, back your argument up with some actual evidence, i.e. how much seat expansions cost in real life.

FM's goal is to be realistic - if seats really do cost millions for a couple of thousand, than that's what they should cost in game. If they don't cost that in reality, then it should be changed, but "it makes my game hard" is not reason enough.

To my, admittedly untrained, eye, the amounts in FM09 seem pretty believable. It might be that the board is a little too eager to expand when it's not really financially viable, but the actual costs seem about right.

OMG, if your team have a profit of 150k per year and 3000 seats costs 2.5M, cash , is this real in your opinion ?

OMG !!

OMG, if your team have a profit of 150k per year and 3000 seats costs 2.5M, cash , is this real in your opinion ?

OMG !!

The cost is realistic. As I said above, it might well be that the board is expanding the stadium when they can't really afford it and that could well be something that needs looking at, but the actual price of the expansion - which is what your thread is asking to be changed - looks pretty accurate.

Just as an aside, when I was last managing lower league clubs (08 - took Eastleigh from BSS to CCC), my club would spend that kind of money on expansions, but only when they had money - indeed, most of the money I made from sales would be reinvested in expanding the club's infrastructure. Which, from the board's point of view was probably a sensible thing to do - gate receipts were tiny compared to other clubs in the league - especially as I had proven I could achieve significant success with very limited funds.

Grep - Did you by any chance request this expansion?

OMG, if your team have a profit of 150k per year and 3000 seats costs 2.5M, cash , is this real in your opinion ?

OMG !!

3000 seats is a fairly large expansion outside of a top league. A few calculations off your numbers, assuming you fill all of those seats average price of a ticket is £10, and 17 home games in a season. The expansion gains you £510k a season, and pays itself off after 5 years. Not of those assumptions were outlandish IMO, if your not going to fill out the expanded stadium you shouldn't be asking for an expansion.

I've taken teams from the BSS/N and BSP to the Premier League and I never once asked for an expansion of the stadium before the Premier League. You can make most of your money from player sales not ticket sales and so expanding the stadium is not worthwhile (I much prefer better training and youth facilities), and once you hit the EPL you'll get a massive expansion or a new stadium. I'd never even consider asking to expand a staduim below the Championship level the crowds just aren't big enough for most teams with reputations that low, and you can easily survive on 6k-7k crowds.

It would be easier to comment if you gave figures.

Look at what the new grounds cost. A price of € 3-4m per 1,000 seats is realistic and expanding is always more expensive than building a new ground.

You don't have to buy land when expanding. You don't have to build shops and probably not extra toilets. You may well not need extra gates.

The capacity of the Madejski Stadium is constantly changing, let me tell you now that if it cost Sir John £1.5m to get rid of 500 seats he wouldn't do it. He HAS got rid of 500 seats, and added them on in different places and removed them again from a third set of locations, so the pricing for such a small number seems well over the top.

You can't say "it will cost Liverpool £400m to build an 80,000 seater stadium, that's £x per seat, so a League Two club will need to spend £200x on 200 new seats", because it doesn't work like that.

Edit: it's actually £5000 per seat in the example above- is it really £1m for 200 extra seats? That would mean Madejski's wasted £4m! He never spends more than the minimum required.

Grep - Did you by any chance request this expansion?

Yes of course I did it.

I had 3/4 milions cause I had just sold ( the board forced that BTW ) few talents and therefore this amount of money. Otherwise I would have had 200k roughly.

Having 3/4 milions I decided to improve the stadium and the board accepted my request, BUT , they didn't tell me the expense of 2.5M cash, otherwise I wouldn't have accepted for sure !!!!

That action, in addition without telling me the price in advance , ruined years of sacrifies finding talents here and there.......

That's not reasonable they don't tell you the prize in advance !!!!! ...and 2.5M for a team who earn 150k per year is not reasonable despiting you, Premier easy boys , state the opposite.

Thanks Riz, good to get some feedback and acknowledgment

I'm glad to hear that this is being tweaked.

OMG, if your team have a profit of 150k per year and 3000 seats costs 2.5M, cash , is this real in your opinion ?

OMG !!

Why does your teams profit change how much an expansion cost? If I earn 15k and want to get an extension on the back of my house the builder isn't going to suddenly lower his prices to make it affordable to me but rather he's going to add up the materials, labour cost and his profit margin and give me a figure.

In FM, as in real life, you have to decide if you have enough money to expand the stadium so you can earn more in future.

Wow, OMG twice in one post. I was almost listening to your ridiculous drivel before that.

The stadium expansions and new stadium building has been again reviewed this year and the area has seen some tweaking for FM2010. We have also reviewed the costs of expansions and new stadiums, based on both real life data available as well as feedback on the forums.

The price per seat calculations are a bit tricky since the figures can end up varying a lot based on the size of the stadia, number of seats etc. There is always a base cost involved as well, so the final prize is not really just "number of seats times £X", but rather "£X times number of seats + £Y", where £Y represents the base costs for expansion work that are not really directly related to the number of seats added. And as you can see, this can in some cases lead to smaller expansions appear pricier per seat than a larger expansion if you just divide the total costs with the number of seats added.

First, thanks for the reply SI !

Then, I have to go back to my old math books to have a sharper picture, could you please post an example ?

Then again , @MelikeFM , you see that SI tweaked a bit stadium seats cost to modulate it better, clearly your math is far worst than mine.

The logic behind stadium expansions/new stadiums really needs to be looked at. My board at FC United just put me 3 million pounds in red for a 1000 new seats and then the chairman payed it all off from his own pocket. The strange thing about it is that FC actually rent the stadium from Bury which is why they can't even relay the pitch in the game (another thing that does not make sense at all, why would Bury mind if FC used their own money to install a proper pitch for them?) But apparently we can add seats? Why would the chairman use his own money to add 1000 seats in a stadium the club don't even own anyway?

don't shoot me down but this article (news ) can show you what extra costs means

http://www2.oanow.com/oan/news/local/article/jacksonville_state_faces_cost_overrun_on_stadium/81397/

in my opinion the costs are right as they are now

I'm more troubled about the high revenues that you can generate with a high profile team (real, barca, liverpool, man utd etc) on the long run...

well,but why i can't have a 5000seats expansion at udinese with over 400millions euros in the bank?

well..by the moment they're getting angry for my requests..in the past they told me that it could be an economical risk..sometimes that they thought it wasn't necessary..

just to get the picture,i'm at udinese..my stadium is few less that 42,000..it's a sold out in every champions league game and in most of the league matches..last year my average was nearly the sold out..

in five years i won five serie a,two champions league and one final,one tim cup,the world cup for clubs and some european and italian supercups..started with a circa 10millions euros bank balance,it went to 485millions before the 72millions paid for share dividends..now it's 420millions..

seriously and sincerely,i can't stand it..

a little edit..last two years i won every single match in serie a..114 points and 114 points..

Not to be racist but I would exclude from this discussion whomever is used to play higher leagues only, they don't even imagine what managing a Lower League team means.

It is like listening to Roman Abramovich speaking and commenting about how the 5% increase of the price of one liter of milk may affect a family budget.

Ridicolous indeed, again , ridicolous indeed.

-

well,udinese is not one of the top team i think,by the way the other coach of the save is at brantwood..

thanks for feedback SI,but..but i've the sold out for the last year,i've checked the real time editor and it says that i could expand to 49,000 circa..480millions in the bank are not so much?

i've won everythin with udinese,not with internazionale,5 serie a,2champions league..apart the fact that i'm not even in the favoured staff of the club..but c'mon,i'm not asking for the monumental,but for a good 50,000 seater..

grep, as this is probably something you cannot really test for 100% in the game demo (as expansions are more of a long term gameplay area), is there a specific lower league club and a probable expansion (even fictional) that you would like me to check in the current FM2010 code ? I could post the financial estimates of such expansion so we can see if they are now at a more realistic level.

This kind of support is great !

You could give Colchester a try, in the last season inside FM09 it was inside League 2 if I remember right. The problem is that, starting from scratch , it is quite difficult, in terms of time, to reach a level where a stadium expansion is needed and approved. It took me several years anyway I clearly remember the board did few huge mistakes in that occasion :

1 ) They forced me to sell 4 young talents within a year ( despiting I had set its influence to 1... )

2 ) with the money collected I asked for a stadium expansion and they accepted without telling me the price in advance otherwise I would ever never accepted such an insane nightmare of roughly 2.8M when my overall budget was around 4.5M.

3 ) The payment has been done cash and my finances were cut of 75% all of a sudden, burning 15 years of sacrifies to collect and grow young talents.

If we don't consider the crazy board act of selling talents the budget would have been around 200k and people coming to see the match were definitely more than what the small Colchester stadium was allowed to contain. So with 200k per year ( 10% roughly goes to transfer market ) and without crazy actions by the board, how asuch a team is supposed to afford a 2.8M cash to expand the stadium of only 3000 seats and in addition without being warned by the board about the price ?

You could argue that its not actually anything to do with you how the board spend the cash. On a balance sheet, you had enough money to pay cash, so that what they did. OR they could have taken out a loan which would have needed paying back every month, slowly crippling your finances.