League reputation in FM10

Was it touched on in the announcement whether or not the league reputations would still be static in FM10 ?

Thanks.

I believe the reputations will still be static

Which is a shame, as dynamic reputations would make a really amazing game, and leave it open for some really long career games, as the nation in general (popularity, importance, quality, finances) could develop with your team.

The only reason FMRTE is a useful tool.

when the league reputations change then it will be a fantastic game.

The only reason FMRTE is a useful tool.

Have you had any stability issues using it for league reputations over long saves (if you've played that long), or using it for anything at all?

The only reason I have used FMRTE was to edit league repuations.

At the end of a season if a team from a certain country did well in Europe, I may adjust the reputation by 1/2 depending how far they got in that European compeititon. I would also take it away if a country did particularly bad. The German league became quite an average league.

By the year 2046, the French league was amazing and Lille won several Champion Leagues.

The Scandanvian leagues became pretty decent.

The only reason I have used FMRTE was to edit league repuations.

By the year 2046, the French league was amazing and Lille won several Champion Leagues.

So no stability issues? Hmmm.......that was a worry I had about FMRTE, but I'll need to re-consider using it.

This is ridiculous. Over 15 years and they still haven’t figured out how to introduce dynamic reputations. League reputations not being linked with results is very poor.

Sorry I didn't answer that question!

I didin't have any stability issues..

This is ridiculous. Over 15 years and they still haven’t figured out how to introduce dynamic reputations. League reputations not being linked with results is very poor.

I could give you 25 years and I doubt that you could do it

I would really like something like this introduced. i had a Rangers game of 14 seasons and new I had a worldwide reputation but wanted to know how high that was i.e 9800 or whatever.

So installled FM Genie Scout to see this, Real Madrid are the only team ahead of me still my Rep is roughly 9300.

Every year I hope league reputation becomes dynamic, but unfortunately it hasn't yet. I suppose we still have a chance for FM10 since the feature blogs will start soon and might reveal a thing or two about reputation. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

Personally, this is what I think SI needs to have at the top of their improvement list. If league reputation becomes dynamic, it would be immense. It would make lower league management a whole lot better.

I hope this year's "polish" theme will include league reputation. It only seems fair.

This is ridiculous. Over 15 years and they still haven’t figured out how to introduce dynamic reputations. League reputations not being linked with results is very poor.

It's not that it is too difficult for them to implement, it's just that at this stage they haven't thought it worth the work to implement. It would most likely be relatively easy, however, I have no doubt that enabling such a feature would require a LOT of changes in the way that other things are handled. What seems a simple change in isolation can become a sizeable task once things that depend on it are taken into consideration.

Anybody who has ever developed an in any way complex piece of software can attest to this .

No doubt dynamic reps sounds difficult to implement, but I would think that any game that prides itself in being realistic would make a point of having it.

I'm definitely in favor of this. It would kick FM up into a whole new gear for long-play saves!

I'm in favour of this being worked on for FM10. Kills me when you can't develop a team long term in smaller countries because League reputation undermines that of the club.

Dynamic reps would be great, but they need to be thought out very carefully. And, to be honest, I can't think of a league that has had a clear shift over the last 10 years.

The Russian, Turkish and Greek leagues have all grown in stature whereas Italy and Germany have shrunk slightly in my opinion.

Subtle, long term shifts is what i'd like. Sudden jumps would be horrific, i think we're all agreed on that.

Can this be settled by reference to the database? What has happened to the relevant leagues' reputations in the database over the time League Reputation has been in the game?

What about a league reputation based on the average of the reputation of the teams that play in them?

I don't think it would be to difficult to program, and is probably the most realistic way to include it imo.

Based on the results of the teams of a nation in European competitions, their league rep might go up or down according to how well they play.

So, in general the entire nation would benefit of how well their teams play in European competitions.

I think even if the dynamic league reputation linked with the results can be done, we can see little changes throughout our career at that country/league.

Just for example, say I am playing in Belarus league with XYZ FC. Every year I qualify for Champions league and do well/win the cup. But other Belorussian teams are unable to do anything in different continental competitions. So based on only one club's performance should this league's reputation be increased?

If we find that only ManUtd from EPL is doing well in champions league every year and other clubs are being knocked out at qualifying stages itself, I doubt EPL would be so much reputed league.

RSCA4Ever has already pointed this out. Each league should have at least 2/3 performing clubs at continental level before game can increase it's reputation.

But I am for this idea though.

I think even if the dynamic league reputation linked with the results can be done, we can see little changes throughout our career at that country/league.

Just for example, say I am playing in Belarus league with XYZ FC. Every year I qualify for Champions league and do well/win the cup. But other Belorussian teams are unable to do anything in different continental competitions. So based on only one club's performance should this league's reputation be increased?

If we find that only ManUtd from EPL is doing well in champions league every year and other clubs are being knocked out at qualifying stages itself, I doubt EPL would be so much reputed league.

RSCA4Ever has already pointed this out. Each league should have at least 2/3 performing clubs at continental level before game can increase it's reputation.

But I am for this idea though.

I agree, but the way it is now it isn't even possible for the reputation of a single club to improve, never mind the whole league. If you play in a poor league your rep is reset to conform with the rest of the league at the beginning of every season even if you won the CL just a few weeks earlier.

If we could just make it possible for individual teams to break out of the mold a bit, then perhaps we can worry about entire leagues later.

how about, using the CA of players, to rate the team,the higher CA average the team has, the higher league CA the league has, so over the course of players retiering, new signings the CA average will increase/ decrease,

I agree, but the way it is now it isn't even possible for the reputation of a single club to improve, never mind the whole league. If you play in a poor league your rep is reset to conform with the rest of the league at the beginning of every season even if you won the CL just a few weeks earlier.

If we could just make it possible for individual teams to break out of the mold a bit, then perhaps we can worry about entire leagues later.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, club reputation is dynamic already, is it not? In FM 09, after going from being able to sign only locals to signing international players who are potential stars, surely that's a sign that club reputation is dynamic. Unless I'm misreading your post?

I remember Miles saying something about league reputation is tied in with finances so it's very difficult to rewrite the game with a realistic economic model.

would be best new feature if it was in FM10

Dynamic reps would be great, but they need to be thought out very carefully. And, to be honest, I can't think of a league that has had a clear shift over the last 10 years.

Russia, Ukraine, USA and Australia have all had clear shifts upwards. You could say England too over the past 15 years.

Italy has gone down, certainly. I'd say they are on level/just below the French and German leagues now.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, club reputation is dynamic already, is it not? In FM 09, after going from being able to sign only locals to signing international players who are potential stars, surely that's a sign that club reputation is dynamic. Unless I'm misreading your post?

I assume you're talking about when you take a small English club up through the leagues ? Yes, in England and other big countries the club rep is dynamic, but it isn't in smaller countries. Not long term anyway. The club rep is reset every year according to the league in which the club plays. For example, if you manage Rosenborg (let's assume they have a rep of 6000) and win everything one year, then your rep might go up to, say, 6500. But when the new season starts (when you get your fixtures, regens etc.) your newly won rep is reset to where you started, and sometimes even set lower because you play in the poor Norwegian league.

I assume you're talking about when you take a small English club up through the leagues ? Yes, in England and other big countries the club rep is dynamic, but it isn't in smaller countries. Not long term anyway. The club rep is reset every year according to the league in which the club plays. For example, if you manage Rosenborg (let's assume they have a rep of 6000) and win everything one year, then your rep might go up to, say, 6500. But when the new season starts (when you get your fixtures, regens etc.) your newly won rep is reset to where you started, and sometimes even set lower because you play in the poor Norwegian league.

I manage in Eastern Europe actually in FM and so the level of football is even lower. This is a first time I'm hearing about club reputation being reset each season. I'm thinking of using FMRTE and testing this out as it's quite discouraging if that's the case.

It is news to me that league reputations didn't change and it is slightly disappointing. Surely league reputation should be linked to the success in the Champions league of the teams in the league. For example, in the early to mid 90s the Italian teams had a lot of success and generally it was felt that the Spanish and Italian leagues were the best and they contained the best players. Now more recently the English Prem and la Liga are now far more highly thought of the Serie A, due largely to the success in the Champions league of the big 4.

I had always thought that the more popular leagues would be those with the more Champions league spots available. Hence why if I managed to get France 4 spots at the sacrifice of Italy, then the French league would become more desirable than the italian. Disappointing that this does not appear to be the case.

Originally Posted by simon07

The only reason I have used FMRTE was to edit league repuations.

By the year 2046, the French league was amazing and Lille won several Champion Leagues.

How can you edit league repetation with FMRTE? I don't see that option anywhere.

kimjjj: are you sure about this reputation reset thing? Have you systematically tested it?

I believe the reputations will still be static

This is all idle speculation. Nothing at all has been announced about league reputation yet. I hope it is improved like everyone else, but there's no point talking about it until it comes up (or not) in the blogs.

Could someone who does this regularly post their rules for using RTE? If we knew of a system that worked, I'd be quite happy to do my own dynamic league reputations, I just dont know what I'm doing and what effect it will have. I would design a matrix with something like:

Number of teams in the last 8 of Champions League where number of qualifiers is four:

Four: Increase League rep by 20%

Three: Increase League rep by 15%

Two: No Change

One: Decrease by 15%

Number of teams in the last 8 of Champions League where number of qualifiers is three:

Three: Increase League rep by 30%

Two: Increase rep by 20%

One: No Change

None: Decrease by 10%

Number of teams in the last 8 of Champions League where number of qualifiers is two:

Two: Increase by 35%

One: Increase by 10%

None: Static

Number of teams in the last 8 of Champions League where number of qualifiers is one:

One: Increase by 50%

None: No Change

After applying these changes, assess the following:

Champions League Winning Nation: Increase League Rep by 40%

Champions League Runners Up: Increase League Rep by 20%

Europa League: Increase Rep by 25%

Europa League Runners Up: Increase rep by 10%

All thoughts welcome please. I've never used RTE or know much about this so the numbers may be well out but if anyone would like to take that model and improve it I'd be delighted!

i had a thread on this a while ago, http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=90070 and my suggestion was having league rep being directly linked to national coefficients. so each position on the coefficients has a league rep to go with it. for example 1st place - 10 000, 2nd place - 9 800, 3rd place - 9 500 ... and so on. so if you managed to improve your country's coefficient then the league rep would improve as well.

I like the idea of dynamic league reputations but I imagine implementation would be a nightmare. You've not only got to take the clubs performance into account but I think a major part of it is now finances and TV money. Global expose of teams is also pretty vital for league reputation.I bet it would require a huge re-write of the finances module of the game. As Spart said "subtle, long term shifts" are definitely the key

Dynamically changing league reputation will have a knock on effect with the whole financial system and also totally effect qualification in to Europe. What if England, Italy and Spain become useless and Turkish teams are significantly better, yet you still have 3 crap teams from England in the CL while Turkey still only has 1, how will that sort of thing be dynamically changed?

Dynamically changing league reputation will have a knock on effect with the whole financial system and also totally effect qualification in to Europe. What if England, Italy and Spain become useless and Turkish teams are significantly better, yet you still have 3 crap teams from England in the CL while Turkey still only has 1, how will that sort of thing be dynamically changed?

It already is, isn't it? I remember NepentheZ saying that Northern Ireland now has several CL spots because of his success with Knockbreda (and the success of other AI Nire clubs). That's related to coefficients, not league reps.

Furthermore, aren't league reps out of 20?

i had a thread on this a while ago, http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=90070 and my suggestion was having league rep being directly linked to national coefficients. so each position on the coefficients has a league rep to go with it. for example 1st place - 10 000, 2nd place - 9 800, 3rd place - 9 500 ... and so on. so if you managed to improve your country's coefficient then the league rep would improve as well.

I like this idea, IRL if Celtic don't go through tonight then even the champions of the SPL will need to qualify next season so our coefficiant has gone down, however if we both do well then it will be easier to qualify and the Europa League teams will come into the qualifying rounds later on.

I like the idea of dynamic league reputations but I imagine implementation would be a nightmare. You've not only got to take the clubs performance into account but I think a major part of it is now finances and TV money. Global expose of teams is also pretty vital for league reputation.I bet it would require a huge re-write of the finances module of the game. As Spart said "subtle, long term shifts" are definitely the key

The financial model needs a re-write IMO. Within a season almost all top league clubs have transfer budgets of £30m+ which is not how it is in the real world.

Just for example, say I am playing in Belarus league with XYZ FC. Every year I qualify for Champions league and do well/win the cup. But other Belorussian teams are unable to do anything in different continental competitions. So based on only one club's performance should this league's reputation be increased?

Coefficients would be raised for the country, meaning an extra place should be allocated

i had a thread on this a while ago, http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=90070 and my suggestion was having league rep being directly linked to national coefficients. so each position on the coefficients has a league rep to go with it. for example 1st place - 10 000, 2nd place - 9 800, 3rd place - 9 500 ... and so on. so if you managed to improve your country's coefficient then the league rep would improve as well.

I was thinking the same thing about linking league reps to the nation co-efficient. However, league rep is out of 20, not 10000...

kimjjj: are you sure about this reputation reset thing? Have you systematically tested it?

Yes. I've checked my rep right before the new season begins and then checked right after, and have seen it go down by severel hundred points in just one day.

Sometimes the rep of a club is set "wrong" at the beginning of the game and you can actually find yourself with a much improved team and having won everything, and yet have a lower rep than you started with.

This, for example, happens if you manage a club in a small country that the researcher has judged to have a relatively high rep (because he's a good researcher who has judged the club correctly). What happens is that the game won't accept your club having that high a rep since it plays in a small country, so it corrects the researcher's "mistake" and lowers the rep when the new season starts regardless of how the team did in the past season.

Victims of this discrepancy between what the researchers know and what the game "knows" are usually big teams in small countries like Anderlecht, Rosenborg, Hajduk Split, FC København etc.

The financial model needs a re-write IMO. Within a season almost all top league clubs have transfer budgets of £30m+ which is not how it is in the real world.

This is exactly what I was going to say. The economic model needs a massive overhaul, and I will be rather discouraged if this isn't done for FM2010. I can see the point that ticket prices and TV incomes would need to be updated to reflect an improved league; ideally this would be done by linking all of the leagues together (i.e. the top league gets x amount from foreign rights, the 2nd league gets x-y, the 3rd x-2y, etc.) to represent the fact that overseas TV rights exist. However IMO they should be able to do something along these lines in FM2010, even if it is just a starting point to be improved in later versions.

This appeared in the following thread.

Re: A blog about how we decide what features go into FM games.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by MachinegunHead

I hope those long-term features you mentioned are the dynamic league/nation reputations and economic models! They need to be in by FM12, before the world ends

They'll happen (properly) at some point. And yes, that would be an example of a long-term feature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamReaver

Just curious, but what current feature in FM09 or any previous or maybe future versions would have taken the longest for you to implement into the game, can i guess it was the 3D match engine?

Yes and no. The match engine took longest time wise overall, but had a couple of false starts before we got an expert in, who got it in pretty quickly in the circumstances. In recent times, it's probably the new editor or somethng else in FM10 (a technical thing, rather than a gameplay thing) that we haven't announced yet, and something to come in (hopefully) FM11 that trumps them all timewise. Although I wouldn't promise it for FM11 either.

France and Holland are the best examples of this, remember Ajax and Marseille being top teams, now the French and Dutch leagues are much weaker in terms of ability to attract players and cannot compete at the top end in Europe.

League reputation should be flexible.

I was thinking the same thing about linking league reps to the nation co-efficient. However, league rep is out of 20, not 10000...

sorry i don't use the editor much so i just took it as an example from someone elses post but they were talking about club rep, i just assumed they would be the same. anyway the theory still works the same just with lower numbers.

May anyone answer me if increasing league's reputation in FMRTE goes with increasing clubs reputation after a while? Thanks to my, and other clubs from Polish League successes in european competitions (by success, considering Polish standards, I believe to be qualifying to the Stage Group of Champions League/UEFA Cup) my league gained additional place in the CL. (14th place in UEFA coefficients rating). Unfortunately, individual clubs reputation still pretty much suck, it never improved (as FM Scout tells me) from the moment I changed league's reputation. Will clubs' reputation improve after season or two accordingly to the League's reputation I set, or should I do it manually?

I love how this exact thread comes back up every year

I'm pretty sure the limitations realting to things like the financial model is the reason there's no dynamic league reputations in the game, but also I'm pretty sure that it's something SI would very much like to implememnt. I'd be very surprised if it's not a huge announcement one year when they finally manage to crack it.

This is FMs biggest issue IMO. If you look at Italy, Eastern Europe, the USA, Australia, Germany, Ukraine and Russia, they've all grown or shrunk sice 2000. Also a few years ago (about 4) Romania was the 7th highest league in Europe, now it's about 12th.