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C(r)ouch
22-01-2008, 06:40
Shouldn't there at the start of every season and at the start of the game, every country in the world get at least 11 players (to cover most of the positions) in their national clubs. Those players would have random potential and most likely would suck but it would make it more interesting watching the Cup of Nations if Zambia had 11 real players who could turn out to be decent rather then having 11 average greys. I hope some of you share my opinions...

C(r)ouch
22-01-2008, 06:40
Shouldn't there at the start of every season and at the start of the game, every country in the world get at least 11 players (to cover most of the positions) in their national clubs. Those players would have random potential and most likely would suck but it would make it more interesting watching the Cup of Nations if Zambia had 11 real players who could turn out to be decent rather then having 11 average greys. I hope some of you share my opinions...

NepentheZ
22-01-2008, 06:59
Yea, would be nice to see all the nations filled with proper players, even if they are poor.

If you attain all players from all nations, or start a game with all leagues running, i think the majority of nations do get them.

glamdring
22-01-2008, 08:13
Off the top of my head there are close on 200 nations in the game. That's over 2000 players if each has to have 11 on top of all the standard players in the database. It's rather a lot when I'm not remotely interested in appalling ability players from most of those nations and they would have no impact on my game.

nick...
22-01-2008, 08:25
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:
Off the top of my head there are close on 200 nations in the game. That's over 2000 players if each has to have 11 on top of all the standard players in the database. It's rather a lot when I'm not remotely interested in appalling ability players from most of those nations and they would have no impact on my game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybee it could be an option at the start of the game. It would be interesting to have a chance to hop around the lower levels of international football, and I myself, would happily sacrifice running a couple of leagues to do this.

glamdring
22-01-2008, 08:27
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy managing minnow nations, but I select them at the start to include all players from the database so that instead of just 11 players I have a vaguely decent number. Some nations just don't have enough players in the database though and it needs more than 11 as far as I'm aware no enable a human user to manage a nation currently.

Klimowicz
22-01-2008, 08:58
i did notice about 15 czech regens at the end of my last season after our 2010 world cup exit, so maybe the future is bright for us.

it would be great if this wasn't a coincidence.

SiDolman
22-01-2008, 09:07
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Maybee it could be an option at the start of the game. It would be interesting to have a chance to hop around the lower levels of international football, and I myself, would happily sacrifice running a couple of leagues to do this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point - i dont understand why SI has never put more detailed options on the amount of detail outside the playable leagues

SiDolman
22-01-2008, 09:07
Why does germany have all their players greyed out

Chas (Psyatika)
22-01-2008, 09:12
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:
Off the top of my head there are close on 200 nations in the game. That's over 2000 players if each has to have 11 on top of all the standard players in the database. It's rather a lot when I'm not remotely interested in appalling ability players from most of those nations and they would have no impact on my game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe you will find that your typical England save will have about 20,000-30,000 players loaded, so to complain about an additional 2,000 is simply comical.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nick...:
Maybee it could be an option at the start of the game. It would be interesting to have a chance to hop around the lower levels of international football, and I myself, would happily sacrifice running a couple of leagues to do this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is an option at the start of the game (not to load 11 players, but to retain players from certain nations). You can also retain players via a DDT file. DDT files go in
My Documents/Sports Interactive/Football Manager 2008/db/[NAME OF YOUR DATABASE]/edt/

Here's an example of a DDT file that will retain all players from Africa and Asia. It results in a 50,000-60,000 player database, only double what you would get by playing just England alone. With Detail Level turned down for unnecessary competitions (like the Olympics), it runs VERY quickly on my 2.8 GHz system with 1GB of DDR2 RAM. I am running ALL of Asia, Africa, and Iceland as well as England with this set up, and i never have speed issues.

"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Afghanistan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "American Samoa"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Andorra"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Angola"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Azerbaijan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Bahrain"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Bangladesh"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Benin"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Bhutan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Botswana"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Brunei Darussalam"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Burundi"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Cambodia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Cape Verde Islands"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Central African Republic"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Chad"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "China PR"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Chinese Taipei"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Comoros"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Cook Islands"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Democratic Republic of Congo"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Djibouti"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "East Timor"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Egypt"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Equatorial Guinea"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Eritrea"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Ethiopia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Faroe Islands"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Fiji"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Gabon"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Grenada"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Guadeloupe"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Hong Kong"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Iceland"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "India"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Indonesia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Iran"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Iraq"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Japan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Jordan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Kazakhstan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Kenya"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Kuwait"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Kyrgyzstan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Laos"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Lebanon"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Lesotho"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Libya"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Liechtenstein"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Luxembourg"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Macau"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Madagascar"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Malawi"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Malaysia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Maldives"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Malta"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Martinique"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Mauritania"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Mauritius"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Mayotte"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Mongolia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Montserrat"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Mozambique"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Myanmar"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Namibia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Nepal"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "New Caledonia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "New Zealand"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Niger"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "North Korea"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Oman"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Pakistan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Palestine"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Panama"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Papua New Guinea"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Qatar"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Reunion"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Rwanda"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Saint Lucia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Saint Martin"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Samoa"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "San Marino"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "São Tomé & Principe"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Saudi Arabia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Seychelles"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Sierra Leone"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Singapore"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Solomon Islands"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Somalia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "South Africa"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "South Korea"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Sri Lanka"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Sudan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Surinam"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Swaziland"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Syria"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Tahiti"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Tajikistan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Tanzania"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Thailand"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "The Congo"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "The Gambia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "The Philippines"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Tonga"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Turkmenistan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Turks and Caicos Islands"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Uganda"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "United Arab Emirates"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Uzbekistan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Vanuatu"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Vietnam"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Yemen"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Zambia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Zimbabwe"

Chas (Psyatika)
22-01-2008, 09:15
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SiDolman:
Good point - i dont understand why SI has never put more detailed options on the amount of detail outside the playable leagues </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Please tell me this is some kind of strange joke that i don't get http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If the league is not playable, then the notion of "Detail Level" does not apply to it. If you could set the detail of the league, then the league is set up so that you can actually play in it if you wanted to!

As for leagues that are possible to play (and international competitions), it is always possible to set the detail level for each individual competition at any time during your gameplay, by going to Options -&gt; Detail Level.

glamdring
22-01-2008, 09:16
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chas (Psyatika):
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:
Off the top of my head there are close on 200 nations in the game. That's over 2000 players if each has to have 11 on top of all the standard players in the database. It's rather a lot when I'm not remotely interested in appalling ability players from most of those nations and they would have no impact on my game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe you will find that your typical England save will have about 20,000-30,000 players loaded, so to complain about an additional 2,000 is simply comical.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


10% is significant enough if it means my game will run upto 10% slower when it is already on the cusp of being too slow to be bothered. I use EDT files just like the one you gave an example of to select to include the nations I want rather than a whole load of other nations. 11 players from each nation is a token gesture anyway - to be of any use at all you'd have to have at the very least 20-25 which makes it more like 4000-5000 extra players

aston_martin
22-01-2008, 09:18
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SiDolman:
Why does germany have all their players greyed out </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Licsensing issues.

Chas (Psyatika)
22-01-2008, 10:15
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chas (Psyatika):
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:
Off the top of my head there are close on 200 nations in the game. That's over 2000 players if each has to have 11 on top of all the standard players in the database. It's rather a lot when I'm not remotely interested in appalling ability players from most of those nations and they would have no impact on my game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe you will find that your typical England save will have about 20,000-30,000 players loaded, so to complain about an additional 2,000 is simply comical.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


10% is significant enough if it means my game will run upto 10% slower when it is already on the cusp of being too slow to be bothered. I use EDT files just like the one you gave an example of to select to include the nations I want rather than a whole load of other nations. 11 players from each nation is a token gesture anyway - to be of any use at all you'd have to have at the very least 20-25 which makes it more like 4000-5000 extra players </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, then this thread isn't exactly for you, now is it? http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

For the rest of us with computers that aren't 5+ years old, adding 2,000 more players to the database is not that big of a deal.

And having 10% more players would not necessarily mean a 10% slower game. Many of the processes that slow the game down are not dependent on the number of players in the database, but rather the number of matches being played (and their detail levels), which would not increase by nearly as much. Potentially, there could be some slowing down during transfer windows because there are more players to choose from, but surely not enough for a computer built after 2003 to freak out over.

By the way, a 10% slower game would mean that, if you currently wait 20 seconds between days in-game, you would now wait 22 seconds. Enough to "be bothered", surely?

Kill Rock Stars
22-01-2008, 10:15
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chas (Psyatika):

Please tell me this is some kind of strange joke that i don't get http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If the league is not playable, then the notion of "Detail Level" does not apply to it. If you could set the detail of the league, then the league is set up so that you can actually play in it if you wanted to!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

he was talking about detail, not necessarily the detail level option. it's not much to ask to expect to have players emerging all over the world - if you select certain nations to retain at the start, you are effectively picking which nations will get players, and i'd rather see the game determine that itself.

the other option is to retain a large number of nations, but that comes at the cost of slowing the game down a great deal, and wouldn't even be viable on a lot of people's computers.

it would be nice to see a middle option, that generates a few players for each nation, relative to the nation's size, footballing reputation, etc. as it currently stands in my game, there are more talented regens emerging from austria (as i'm running the german league) than from the whole of africa.

Chas (Psyatika)
22-01-2008, 10:17
Are people really using such archaic systems that this is a big deal?

I know my computer isn't top of the line by any means, but surely a 1.7 GHz processor with 512MB of DDR should be sufficient to run many leagues and load many players on low detail...and that was available in 2002! (it was my original system back in college).

Kill Rock Stars
22-01-2008, 10:26
regardless of what system people have, surely it's better to have a smarter system of regens that makes as many national teams as possible playable without loading thousands of players not good enough to ever play in a playable league?

two seconds added onto every twenty seconds of processing time is quite a lot when you take into account how much processing the game does

arrogantio
22-01-2008, 10:59
A player retain option which simply ensured that national squads had a usual team of players (and produced regen keepers if necessary) would be far more useful than having a choice between having squads of mostly greys or manually retaining every player from said nations including useless players that will never be selected.

Would be nice if you had the options of selecting full squads for all reasonably important teams within particular geographical areas - so you could watch (and buy) full squads of African Nations Cup players including some fairly mediocre players in Angola/Guinea etc without ever needing 11 Fijians each with a CA of 1.

Retain player files which kept 15-23 man squads for all clubs with a reasonable probability of entering European competions, regardless of whether their domestic league was simulated, would also be a useful option.

Kill Rock Stars
22-01-2008, 11:22
i tried retaining a few clubs from every nation, but within a few seasons most players had retired with no regens coming through to replace them

Kain
22-01-2008, 11:45
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kill Rock Stars:
i tried retaining a few clubs from every nation, but within a few seasons most players had retired with no regens coming through to replace them </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which leads to the question, what's the point in being able to retain players if the number of players from that country isn't maintained? Surely most people (or a lot, at least) who use this feature do so with the intention of managing the country in a long-term game.

Mike7077
22-01-2008, 12:11
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aston_martin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SiDolman:
Why does germany have all their players greyed out </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Licsensing issues. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a way round this, but it can't be discussed on these boards.

I heard that the last person who did is still dangling from a flagpole atop SI Towers.

C(r)ouch
22-01-2008, 13:12
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chas (Psyatika):
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:
Off the top of my head there are close on 200 nations in the game. That's over 2000 players if each has to have 11 on top of all the standard players in the database. It's rather a lot when I'm not remotely interested in appalling ability players from most of those nations and they would have no impact on my game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe you will find that your typical England save will have about 20,000-30,000 players loaded, so to complain about an additional 2,000 is simply comical.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nick...:
Maybee it could be an option at the start of the game. It would be interesting to have a chance to hop around the lower levels of international football, and I myself, would happily sacrifice running a couple of leagues to do this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is an option at the start of the game (not to load 11 players, but to retain players from certain nations). You can also retain players via a DDT file. DDT files go in
My Documents/Sports Interactive/Football Manager 2008/db/[NAME OF YOUR DATABASE]/edt/

Here's an example of a DDT file that will retain all players from Africa and Asia. It results in a 50,000-60,000 player database, only double what you would get by playing just England alone. With Detail Level turned down for unnecessary competitions (like the Olympics), it runs VERY quickly on my 2.8 GHz system with 1GB of DDR2 RAM. I am running ALL of Asia, Africa, and Iceland as well as England with this set up, and i never have speed issues.

"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Afghanistan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "American Samoa"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Andorra"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Angola"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Azerbaijan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Bahrain"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Bangladesh"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Benin"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Bhutan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Botswana"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Brunei Darussalam"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Burundi"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Cambodia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Cape Verde Islands"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Central African Republic"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Chad"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "China PR"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Chinese Taipei"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Comoros"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Cook Islands"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Democratic Republic of Congo"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Djibouti"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "East Timor"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Egypt"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Equatorial Guinea"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Eritrea"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Ethiopia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Faroe Islands"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Fiji"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Gabon"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Grenada"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Guadeloupe"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Hong Kong"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Iceland"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "India"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Indonesia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Iran"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Iraq"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Japan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Jordan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Kazakhstan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Kenya"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Kuwait"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Kyrgyzstan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Laos"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Lebanon"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Lesotho"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Libya"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Liechtenstein"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Luxembourg"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Macau"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Madagascar"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Malawi"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Malaysia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Maldives"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Malta"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Martinique"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Mauritania"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Mauritius"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Mayotte"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Mongolia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Montserrat"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Mozambique"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Myanmar"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Namibia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Nepal"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "New Caledonia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "New Zealand"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Niger"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "North Korea"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Oman"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Pakistan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Palestine"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Panama"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Papua New Guinea"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Qatar"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Reunion"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Rwanda"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Saint Lucia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Saint Martin"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Samoa"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "San Marino"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "São Tomé & Principe"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Saudi Arabia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Seychelles"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Sierra Leone"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Singapore"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Solomon Islands"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Somalia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "South Africa"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "South Korea"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Sri Lanka"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Sudan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Surinam"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Swaziland"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Syria"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Tahiti"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Tajikistan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Tanzania"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Thailand"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "The Congo"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "The Gambia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "The Philippines"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Tonga"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Turkmenistan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Turks and Caicos Islands"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Uganda"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "United Arab Emirates"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Uzbekistan"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Vanuatu"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Vietnam"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Yemen"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Zambia"
"RETAIN_NATION_PLAYERS" "Zimbabwe" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what you're saying is that you can retain all players from all nations and it would run smoothly?

Amaroq
22-01-2008, 13:42
So, the problem I see with Chas' solution is that it only impacts the start of the game. From my experiences with FM'05, I don't think the "retained" players regenerated with a long-term game; in other words, though you might start the game with all players of Tanzanian nationality, and have the Tanzania national team have 25 real players and be manageable ..

.. by 2020, they would be down to 1 or 2 real players, and the rest grey.

That may not be true with the Fred system.. but it may be.

* * * *

What I'd like to see is an option, essentially, "Make all national teams of X continent 'playable'."

This would do basically what C(r)ouch was describing:

<LI> Enough players of each nationality in the continent would be retained to staff at least the senior national side with sufficient players to be "human manageable". Say, 35-40 players.

<LI> If there are fewer than 35-40 players in the DB, "Fred" players would be generated to fill out the numbers; they would typically be assigned to clubs in the presumably-unplayable-league of the country in question.

<LI> If there are sufficient players to 'man' their youth side(s) as well, that would also be included.

<LI> Key point: The Fred system would be tweaked in such a way that each country in the continent would *always* have sufficient players of a quality on-par with the country's starting-DB value that a human player could take over and become the manager.

<LI> International competitions for that continent would automatically be set to Full detail (This could still be modified via the current UI)

For example, if I start a Small DB game with just England loaded, by 2020 there may only be 25-50 "real" Argentinian players in the world. Not all of them may be of sufficient quality to keep Argentina a world power.

By contrast, if I had used "Make all national teams from South America playable", there would be something like 100 "real" Argentine players in the game at 2020, and while some of those might be youth-quality-at-best, there should be 25 quality players to pick from for a World Cup squad.

I'd imagine some managers would use this for Europe, e.g., ensuring that Estonia, San Marino, et al have their national teams stocked with real players. South America has few enough teams that it would be a very "cheap" buy, in game terms.

For those with better computers, Africa might be an entertaining option ..

.. but it would also serve to "enable" some "LLM" international play, such as trying to manage the St. Kitts team in CONCACAF, or the Cook Islands in the OFC.

C(r)ouch
22-01-2008, 13:52
http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif I think it would make a good/great FM 09 new feature, it only depends on how well they would implant it

xouman
23-01-2008, 04:20
Does retain nation players also work with regens? in 2024 I'm tired of u21 and u19 squads for nor top neither bad teams. Good teams without lots of regens have amazing u19 and u21 squads: germany u19 is nearly as good as senior team (some players are better than others in senior team), and swiss or greece u21 are better than senior. Czech u19 is also amazing, and luckily bad teams had worse greys.

glamdring
23-01-2008, 04:24
I had loads of good Lebanese regans in FM07 after selecting to retain them at the start of the game. I'm in ~2020 now and Lebanon have been top 20 in the FIFA rankings for the last few years and their players are spreading across Europe now.

The players initially retained (i.e those in the database, not regens) were obviously nowhere near as good as this lot otherwise Lebanon would be a serious force in world football...which they aren't!

Amaroq
23-01-2008, 09:46
Oh, that's very good to hear, glamdring. It sounds like my "key point" was done, then.

TBH, I hadn't tried "retain players from" after being disappointed with its long-term effects in FM'05, so I'll be sure to give that a go on my next save-game.

glamdring
25-01-2008, 06:44
One disappointing aspect though in FM07 (I haven't played long enough in FM08 to know) is that it has gone too far the opposite way from CM03/04 where the nations of active leagues had all the best regens.

My experience in FM07 is that all the best regens (or rather a large volume of the best regens) are coming from those nations which I chose to include players from, but significantly not from the nations whose leagues are active (England and Scotland). I really wanted to move my Morton squad over to being mostly Scottish and one summer I had a push to do that by scouring around for the best Scottish talent, but I could only get half a team's worth, there just wasn't the level of talent out there - meanwhile I was signing top class Ukrainians, Hungarians, Finns, Lebanese, etc, etc by the boatload.