Difficulty Levels, good idea?

Posted this on the CM forums as I just tried their new demo. It was painfully slow, took 6 minutes to get from the morning to the evening on one day. On footy manager, I think I could have gotten through a week. But I was wondering people's opinions about difficulty levels, they were shot down by some people who didn't think it was too hard, that's fine. I just thought, where's the harm in catering for people who are not in to spending hours tweaking every little detail.

I'll post the original post below:

I always wondered whether Manager games would introduce this as an option. Here's why.

On the old CM games before the split, I used to be able to do very well with a number of clubs, just by making decent transfers, buying young players and players whose average ratings were consistantly high, chosing standard tactics and not fiddling too much.

When I finally got FM a couple of years ago, I noticed that it was hugely difficult to change the fortunes of any number of clubs and even decent transfers didn't really change things. I think this was probably the case because I am lazy and can't be bothered to go through all the little options, tweaking tactics, runs and what not and adjusting them every game. I'm sure this is a good thing for people truly wanting the full experience and have patience enough to fiddle about.

However, I like the lighter side of these management games, like they were back in the days of CM03/04. I like to view my squad, promote people from youth, buy and sell players based on performances, set basic tactics that I rarely change. On match days I like to view only text versions of the game, because I like the game to run quickly and playing on this basis allows you to run through the seasons much faster, which I personally like.

Going back to the problem I have thesedays particularly with FM is that unless I spend ages playing with all the tactics and everything available, I can't ever do well with a club. Even playing as Man Utd, I may come 8-9th

So I thought the game could be improved if it had difficulty levels or even just two levels.

Level (Amateur)

Like I described, back to the days of CM03/04 where you can do well with clubs just doing basics and not bothering so much with tactics, plays, runs etc.

(Proffessional)

More difficult, the game relying on a player, judging oposition, changing tactics to counter each new team, playing with all the little features available.

I just think there are two types of people who enjoy playing these games and while I can accept not doing well. I like to think that I can really do well with some teams however I just don't enjoy tweaking all the different features every game. I think this way, you would appeal to the hardcore gamers who love all the tweaking, as well as the casual gamers who just like to breeze through the games focussing more on the transfer market.

I wonder if anybody else thinks this would be a good addition to both the manager games?

You'd basically need two games, which would half the amount of time put into new features and bug fixes. To be honest, and I really don't want to sound as patronising as people normally are when they say this, you'd be better off playing an old version (00-01, 01-02, 03-04, 05, 07, 08, whatever floats your boat) because it isn't going to happen.

I think that there is a varying amount of difficulty already present in the game. It is pretty easy to win with a top club, say Man Utd or Barcelona, without much tweaking or farting about with tactics. The higher difficulty comes from trying to take a lower league club, say in League 2 in England into the Premiership and staying there.

I think that there is a varying amount of difficulty already present in the game. It is pretty easy to win with a top club, say Man Utd or Barcelona, without much tweaking or farting about with tactics. The higher difficulty comes from trying to take a lower league club, say in League 2 in England into the Premiership and staying there.

That the way i look at it also.

Also, isnt there a tactics wizard coming with FM10? That can also be used as a difficulty level. For beginners/novices/casuals or whatever, they can use it or for people looking for a more advanced experience, they have the option not to.

Currently there are a few things you can do to make your game more difficult. Signing players purely based on your scouts reports rather than the player search for example (like in the lower league forum). Take all press conferences yourself, yes they are monotonous but there is scope for you to make a mistake or 2, i also expect they will have been "polished" for FM10. Those are just 2 examples.

I think that there is a varying amount of difficulty already present in the game. It is pretty easy to win with a top club, say Man Utd or Barcelona, without much tweaking or farting about with tactics. The higher difficulty comes from trying to take a lower league club, say in League 2 in England into the Premiership and staying there.

I dont really agree with this old arguement, expectations & resources all come into play making it much more complex an issue. SI have told us often that coding separate tier difficulty levels is as good as unworkable. To really give a workable difficulty level structure probably comes down to assistant help, and just maybe the FM10 features will provide this.

I dont really agree with this old arguement, expectations & resources all come into play making it much more complex an issue. SI have told us often that coding separate tier difficulty levels is as good as unworkable. To really give a workable difficulty level structure probably comes down to assistant help, and just maybe the FM10 features will provide this.

Well, I would say it depends on your own expectations. Sure Cambridge Utd expectations may just be to get back into the League, but if you set yourself the target of getting them to the premiership, then the resource constraints, original level of playing squad etc do make it a difficult task, especially if you don't use any pre-made tactics etc.

I think that there is a varying amount of difficulty already present in the game. It is pretty easy to win with a top club, say Man Utd or Barcelona, without much tweaking or farting about with tactics. The higher difficulty comes from trying to take a lower league club, say in League 2 in England into the Premiership and staying there.

spot on, imho. the difficulty levels are "built-in" with a game like FM.

Well, I would say it depends on your own expectations. Sure Cambridge Utd expectations may just be to get back into the League, but if you set yourself the target of getting them to the premiership, then the resource constraints, original level of playing squad etc do make it a difficult task, especially if you don't use any pre-made tactics etc.

Yes put that way I supose so. But I never set expectations for more than 1 season (as indeed you cannot in the game structure), I could never "expect" multiple back to back promotions even if that is the eventual aim.

Oh no, not suggesting back to back, just getting Cambridge into the Premiership, even given a decade or two, given their comparatively little financial muscle etc would be an achievement I feel.

you can already do that without changes control a lower league team and the game will be harder, control a top team it will be easier .

i don't like the OP idea :/

Oh no, not suggesting back to back, just getting Cambridge into the Premiership, even given a decade or two, given their comparatively little financial muscle etc would be an achievement I feel.

Sure. A better example, I think it would be easier to avoid the sack as manager of Burnley (relegation may not mean sacking), 4th bottom would be easily achievable. Compare this to Rangers/Celtic or Braca /Real, where the competition is harsh and 2nd place is no place!

Oh and if you really really want a challenge, you could always manipulate the database slightly and put a lower league team into the top league and see if you can keep them up, although that's kind of manufactured.

I think people generally misunderstand me. I don't want more of a challenge, I want it easier. I have gathered from what people say, that I just must be absolutely rubbish at the game

Like, I find it hard to finish top 6 with Man Utd. The only time I ever get suceess is if I make a vastly superior team in the editor at lower league level and then just work my way through. I know it's a cheat but like I say, I find it too difficult getting everything to work to acchieve success.

Shame, on the old cm03/04 games, I used to to quite well with all my teams just through good transfers. I'm not saying for one minute I am good, I just thought a level that doesn't rely heavily on playing with settings would be appealing to the lighter gamers who just like to play through fast.

If I have not mistaken, there is a small difficulty level adjustment present in the FM already.

While creating a manager, use 'past experience' as difficulty level. If you choose 'International Footballer', good players will always eager to play under you. Thus signing good player is very easy.

If you choose 'Sunday League Player' as your past experience then forget good players, even decent players will be harder to manage. So be wise and choose your difficulty level while starting a new game.

I think that there is a varying amount of difficulty already present in the game. It is pretty easy to win with a top club, say Man Utd or Barcelona, without much tweaking or farting about with tactics. The higher difficulty comes from trying to take a lower league club, say in League 2 in England into the Premiership and staying there.

This is a point that always comes up in these debates and I compeltely disagree. Some people struggle with the top teams, let alone the small teams and some people aren't aware of the tactical help etc available on the internet, so they would relish the chance to preset difficulty.

That said, I don't think there's actually any need for a difficulty setting anymore, the tactics wizard will go some way towards helping people understand the hardest part of the game and there have been much better suggestions re: difficulty, that wouldn't actually affect the game.

Oh and if you really really want a challenge, you could always manipulate the database slightly and put a lower league team into the top league and see if you can keep them up, although that's kind of manufactured.

Or as I once did with QPR in the 3rd tier in CM0102, I editted to them all the top players in real life who at that time where either out of contract or in dispute with their clubs (Rivaldo, Lee Bowyer and many more). The challenge was very interesting as holding on to the players was almost impossibe. The plus factor was that I was able to recruit very good Prem League journeymen who helped make the squad average Prem quality. The "Stars" all left in the first season though. Absent without leave was a very common phrase in my inbox!

I think people generally misunderstand me. I don't want more of a challenge, I want it easier. I have gathered from what people say, that I just must be absolutely rubbish at the game

Like, I find it hard to finish top 6 with Man Utd. The only time I ever get suceess is if I make a vastly superior team in the editor at lower league level and then just work my way through. I know it's a cheat but like I say, I find it too difficult getting everything to work to acchieve success.

Shame, on the old cm03/04 games, I used to to quite well with all my teams just through good transfers. I'm not saying for one minute I am good, I just thought a level that doesn't rely heavily on playing with settings would be appealing to the lighter gamers who just like to play through fast.

With the new tactics wizard you should be able to achieve parity with the AI on a tactical level. So unless you do really poorly in the transfer market you should be able to compete for titles with the best clubs.

With the new tactics wizard you should be able to achieve parity with the AI on a tactical level. So unless you do really poorly in the transfer market you should be able to compete for titles with the best clubs.

And that is all we all hope for. Now if we can give players instant in match instruction, as the AI seems to do, the playing field will indeed be level.

There are already plenty of ways to make the game as easy/difficult as you like. To make the game easier you do the following:

- Set starting reputation to International Footballer.

- Turn attribute masking off

- Download a proven tactic and training schedule

- Use 3rd party applications such as Genie Scout and Real Time Editor

- Use the good player and team guide forum to find players

And to make the game more difficult simply follow LLM rules.

There are already plenty of ways to make the game as easy/difficult as you like. To make the game easier you do the following:

- Set starting reputation to International Footballer.

- Turn attribute masking off

- Download a proven tactic and training schedule

- Use 3rd part applications such as Genie Scout and Real Time Editor

- Use the good player and team guide forum to find players

And to make the game more difficult simply follow LLM rules.

- Turn attribute masking off ?? tell me where can u do that ? and what does it do

- Turn attribute masking off ?? tell me where can u do that ? and what does it do

You have the option of turning it on or off when you set up a new game. It masks attributes, as it says on the tin.

- Turn attribute masking off ?? tell me where can u do that ? and what does it do

When you start the game, it's one of the tick-boxes in the bottom-right corner. All player's attributes are visible (as opposed to you needing to scout them to see their attributes).

noooooooooooooooooooooo i don't like, i love fm because there isn't the difficult level...

noooooooooooooooooooooo i don't like, i love fm because there isn't the difficult level...

I don't understand this mindset :confused: If you don't like a difficulty level, you don't have to use it. Saying that it shouldn't be in the game because you like the difficulty, isn't really a good enough reason, it's just a point of view window dressed as reason.

I don't understand this mindset :confused: If you don't like a difficulty level, you don't have to use it. Saying that it shouldn't be in the game because you like the difficulty, isn't really a good enough reason, it's just a point of view window dressed as reason.

If there is a difficulty level setting introduced, you have to choose a level of difficulty, you can't not use it.

If there is a difficulty level setting introduced, you have to choose a level of difficulty, you can't not use it.

Says who? There's no chance of "preset" i.e. normal FM or the option not to set difficulty? I didn't know they had already started work on it.

Says who? There's no chance of "preset" i.e. normal FM or the option not to set difficulty? I didn't know they had already started work on it

I'm yet to see a game where it offers a difficulty level setting and at the same time, offering you the ability to not use it, although I suppose FM could be the first.

I personally like the way FM is now. It keeps things straightforward and the realism still remains, which I find the best part about the game.

I'm yet to see a game where it offers a difficulty level setting and at the same time, offering you the ability to not use it,

Whether it offers the option to use it or not, surely it's common sense that Normal = ordinary FM.

Whether it offers the option to use it or not, surely it's common sense that Normal = ordinary FM.

I don't know about you, but it just wouldn't feel like the FM we all know when you have to set the level of difficulty. Right away, it makes you look at it as if FM is just another game.

The fact that FM has come along way with its distinct features and depth is what makes it stand out over other competitors. It has the winning formula already, so, why fix something if it's not broke as they say?

Again I direct people to my post (Post #19). There are already plenty of ways to alter the difficulty of the game, actual defined difficulty levels are not needed.

Elrithral, you'd better start agreeing with me or I'm going to give you a wedgie!

Elrithral, you'd better start agreeing with me or I'm going to give you a wedgie!

That's no incentive to agree with you. Your hands on my boxers? Difficulty levels ftw!

PS: Post 19, 3 of those options are web based only and not every gamer is aware of the facilities available for the game. How many people don't patch the game? I think you'd be surprised.

I don't know about you, but it just wouldn't feel like the FM we all know when you have to set the level of difficulty. Right away, it makes you look at it as if FM is just another game.

The fact that FM has come along way with its distinct features and depth is what makes it stand out over other competitors. It has the winning formula already, so, why fix something if it's not broke as they say?

A lot of players who are really struggling consider the game well and truely broken and requires fixing at present. I think that would be a little harsh though, nothing the new innovations announced cannot fix.

A lot of players who are really struggling consider the game well and truely broken and requires fixing at present. I think that would be a little harsh though, nothing the new innovations announced cannot fix.

I was simply referring to the game difficulty question, nothing else. We all know the game has its flaws.

That's no incentive to agree with you. Your hands on my boxers? Difficulty levels ftw!

PS: Post 19, 3 of those options are web based only and not every gamer is aware of the facilities available for the game. How many people don't patch the game? I think you'd be surprised.

A good point, but there are teams in the game such as Man City that basically have an unlimited amount of money yet fairly low expectations. This is the team I started with on '09. There are other similar teams, Shakatar is I think another, and there are plenty of leagues other than the top leagues where you can be by far the best team in the league.

So I still maintain that there are already methods to regulate the difficulty of the game.

And boxers? Pft. You know fine well that you wear Y-fronts.

Silly idea

Wealth and level of expectation don't necessarily make the game any easier though. I know what you're saying, chopper99, but the difficulty levels you're talking about are difficulty levels for people who know how to play the game. I can choose whether I want it easy, normal or difficult, by selecting a specific club, but I have some tactical know how. Someone new might have plenty of money to spend and a half decent team, but tactics are what they actually need to time to master.

I.e. for someone who has played the game for a long time Man Utd - Easy, Man City - Normal and Hull - Hard, but for someone new, with no idea about tactics Man Utd, Man City and Hull - Hard.

Silly idea

Given the reasonable debate in this thread about the pros and cons of a difficulty setting, it would be good if you took the time to post something a little more constructive, outlining your point of view about why this would be a silly idea.

To the OP,

Here what you can do to have an easier game:

1. Load only top leagues.

2. Uncheck Attribute Masking.

3. Use "SUGER DADDY" option for your team. (Use DDT file)

4. While adding a manager, select his past experience as "International Footballer"

I think you will have a less tough time.

To the OP,

Here what you can do to have an easier game:

1. Load only top leagues.

2. Uncheck Attribute Masking.

3. Use "SUGER DADDY" option for your team. (Use DDT file)

4. While adding a manager, select his past experience as "International Footballer"

I think you will have a less tough time.

Thanks for your suggestions and everybody else's.

I guess my reasoning for why I believe it's good to have a difficulty setting is because I still don't want to use specific things and play as one top team for the entire game. I'm gonna move clubs and such and I want to make an impact so chosing a top team may make it easier but I prefer lower leagues and I enjoy going to new clubs and turning them round and because I'm obviously not skilled with the right tactics and haven't the patience to fiddle every game, I don't feel I can acchieve what I want.

I understand why people wouldn't want difficulty levels but let me be clear, I don't want something that makes me win all the time, indeed on the old cm03/04 I refer to, I used to do badly sometimes and get sacked, but often I could then go to another club and do really well. I just think lately at FM I can't really make an impact, it's not particularly that I always do bad, it's just mediocre and I miss making the impact. I felt maybe an ameteur level would help people who don't want to have specific settings and download tactics and such (which I never do) Until the other day, I'd never installed a patch. Then the professional mode could be as hard as ever. I didn't see it as a huge issue.

I would appreciate a "sport" setting that allows for minimal involvement for early Sunday mornings, where the game would make a good alternative to dog walking if it were not for its sublime sophistication.

to dctimc,

For lower league team save games, use these techniques:

1) Use 'Sugar daddy' for finance.

2) Disable 'attribute masking' for less hassles in player scouting

3) Download proven tactics, training regimes etc.

4) Go through 'Good player' forum for cheap but good players.

5) Start with International reputation.

At least two of those require knowledge of these forums, not everybody has that. Another two are considered cheating. There's nothing to say that people who want to avoid being sacked, don't want to play their game the same way as everyone else.

I am deffinatley in favour of an option to tone down the difficulty of the game. We all know that the game is almost too easy with a big wealthy club, but on the flip side the game is nearly too hard to play with a small club. Personally I do like the challenge of taking a small club to graetness but somtimes the rather unforgiving match engine means that I cannot enjoy the first couple of seasons and will usually lead to me restarting the game. I understand what the OP was saying, in older versions like CM 01/02 you could take a team like southhampton to european and domestic glory in a couple of seasons and felt like the greatest manager that ever lived and that is what kept us coming back for more, the game was FUN!

Now how ever it seems as though REALISM is the main aim of the game (although I dont see how a game that allows you to still be managing when you are over 100 years old can be described as realistic) and fun is more of a second thought. In my opinion a difficulty setting would go someway to bringing back the fun element and make me want to play the game religiously as I did in the old days, rather than something to do when I'm bored. Don't get me wrong I love FM and think it is the best management game on the market but would love to be able to just adjust how vicious the match engine is at times.

I don't really agree with the op but i would think if it said how difficult the game thinks it will be for the player for example

Man Utd

Nationality:England

Difficulty:Very Easy

Changing difficulty level i don't agree tghouh

For everyone telling me to choose International Manager and sugar daddy when I start the game. I can't see these options, help me out, I'd like to test whether they make a difference. Also I'm being told to download some tactics or something. Could someone link me to what I need and how does it work, do I install them and they are then defaulted in the game?

At least two of those require knowledge of these forums, not everybody has that. Another two are considered cheating. There's nothing to say that people who want to avoid being sacked, don't want to play their game the same way as everyone else.

Whilst its all good for yourself amongst others to suggest difficulty levels are a good idea I have yet to see a suggestion as to how it could be successfully implemented into FM.

FWIW I don't see the need for such a function but I'm all in favour of little additions that can help people (eg Assistant manager advice).

Whilst its all good for yourself amongst others to suggest difficulty levels are a good idea I have yet to see a suggestion as to how it could be successfully implemented into FM.

I didn't know suggestions had to be backed up with ideas! I was under the impression that you could make a suggestion and then leave it for SI to bulk out and make workable :confused: Press conferences, for example, mentioned many times, but not on a level that anyone could ever consider a suggestion, based on your assertion that it had to be workable. Instead it was suggested and left to SI to figure out how it would work and what would make it work.

Link to tagged Unsackable Thread. So i'm assuming SI have ideas of their own, regardless os whether or not us lot give a full workable suggestion.