Has anyone achieved Wenger's philosophy?

Maybe the most difficult, if not impossible, thing in this game is to become Arsene Wenger, meaning to compete within the first slots of a top league without spending much and by improving players.

The use of one of those gimmicky "plug and play" tactics we read in the relevant section doesn't count.

I am talking about doing it as he does, playing a young team, developing talents and at the end of the day being able to pick anyone and train him into the philosophy that is Arsenal. Creating a football of principles.

Has anyone done it? (I repeat, properly. Not by using gimmicks.)

well im managing arsenal in my save and i will only buy players under the age of 20 and for less than £5 million and ive been selling off guys who are older such as rosicky, toure, gallas etc. for over £20 million each. im only in my second season though but i won the league first time around.

Well I play in a similar fashion and most of my buys have been under £10m bar one. £40m for Aguero. But I actually have some English players in my team so no. I did improve most of my players beyond recognition though and they are all under 23 I think except for 3 players. I'm playing as Q.P.R btw and we've just won the Premiership .

I was doing this, then I realised that I would never ever beat Arsenal to the title. So now I have spent loads of money trying to outdo them, and I'm still no better off

I did it as you can read here, I had a policy of only signing under 21s with the odd exception (as Arsene did). I broke my policy recently by signing a couple of 26 year olds but I think the eldest I had signed before then was about 23/24.

But were you using genie scout 2009?

But were you using genie scout 2009?

No, I was using my own scouts.

Where they altered by FM editor 2009?

Where they altered by FM editor 2009?

No, I haven't used an editor since 01/02.

dafuge is a 'purest' iirc

Picking up the talents without genie scout, based on the information of mediocre FM scouts?

Picking up the talents without genie scout, based on the information of mediocre FM scouts?

I wouldn't call the FM scouts mediocre, if anything they are too good. Listen to them (as I do) and you will make some great signings.

I generally do not sign anyone older than 23, and nurture them through into my team, although I have to say I have paid over 10 million on 3 occasions and also I am not quite in the wenger method as I actually sign more than 1 player a season and currently have a 30m deficit in total transfer spend... which admittedly has led to me having too many youths but anyway ...

I think with the right scouts in the right places as well as some of maybe doing some trawling on your own, there is absolutely no need for genie scout as the scouts will find you players who are good enough for your team.

I do it all the time. You just need a bunch of good scouts to watch the youth leagues.

I do it all the time. You just need a bunch of good scouts to watch the youth leagues.

That really is quite an achievement, well done mate.

The scouts of the game, who watch the younger leagues, suggest about 4 players every Friday, 80% of which, checked in genie scout, are rubbish. How can anyone discover the talent in a pile of similar suggestions? Come on guys now... let's get real here.

The scouts of the game, who watch the younger leagues, suggest about 4 players every Friday, 80% of which, checked in genie scout, are rubbish. How can anyone discover the talent in a pile of similar suggestions? Come on guys now... let's get real here.

I use the player search screen to identify targets then send my scouts out to look at them.

The scouts of the game, who watch the younger leagues, suggest about 4 players every Friday, 80% of which, checked in genie scout, are rubbish. How can anyone discover the talent in a pile of similar suggestions? Come on guys now... let's get real here.

If you get some 20/20 scouts and only consider those players that can potentialy be at least as good as your current starters, you have a start. Then you check his attributes to see if he fits the bill, for example I wouldn't by a 17-year-old defender with 7 for pace, no matter how good he looks otherwise. If he seems promising and cheap enough, you buy him, play him in some easy games and see if he's any good. If not, you sell him after a year or two, but almost always with a profit anyway.

You do get lots of useless reports, but it's worth sifting through them.

I'm still not hearing fantastic scouting tactics that will allow a team of the lowest of low to achieve champions league status by continuously choosing great talent without our friend the genie. And where would someone get 20/20 scouts in the lowest of the low?

I'm still not hearing fantastic scouting tactics that will allow a team of the lowest of low to achieve champions league status by continuously choosing great talent without our friend the genie. And where would someone get 20/20 scouts in the lowest of the low?

Get the best scouts you can, use the player search screen to identify targets then scout away. Get as many scout reports as possible and trust them. Simples.

There are no fantastic scouting tactics. You scout players, you sign some of them. A couple of them become first team players, the others get sold again.

You can't expect every young player you sign to become what you want him to become. That's not how it works (in fm or in real).

I'm still not hearing fantastic scouting tactics that will allow a team of the lowest of low to achieve champions league status by continuously choosing great talent without our friend the genie. And where would someone get 20/20 scouts in the lowest of the low?

There are no tactics and plenty of players only play the game the "pure" way including myself.

Hire best scouts you can, send them out to various areas, scout the best talents further & then sign those that fit in.

I'm still not hearing fantastic scouting tactics that will allow a team of the lowest of low to achieve champions league status by continuously choosing great talent without our friend the genie. And where would someone get 20/20 scouts in the lowest of the low?

I don't know how you get good scouts in the lower divisions. I started in the Serie B and I could get at least 15/15 ones in my first season, then I picked up better ones after my promotion, when regen scouts started to appear. But if you start in the Conference, you don't have money to spend anyway, you sign anyone who looks good and he's willing to come to your club. The Wenger philosophy only makes sense at a big club, because a sixth tier team doesn't have a choice of spending big bucks anyway.

There's always an element of trial and error in it, especially if your scouts are not great, but you usually make some money even if they don't turn out as good as you hoped.

If you scout the same player many times you get the same report many times. Come on lads, I need something solid here!

If you scout the same player many times you get the same report many times. Come on lads, I need something solid here!

Use the player search and get your scouts busy, it really is that simple.

You do realise Wenger didnt take a poverty stricken rubbish club and turn them into the world beaters (meh) they are today? He took over a solid club (top four before there was even the notion of the top four) with great finances and a brilliant core of players. He was in the best (in terms of player wages and commercial interests) league in the world, he was able to offer top wages and he had transfer money to spend.

If there was a single club on the database thusly setup I could actually make Wengers look awful by comparison by what I'd achieve. (in fact with napoli in 05 I spent less than 30 million from Seria C1 to winning Seria A, also didnt pay anyone 100k a week). Of course this is FM and so nowhere near what actual management is about but since the question was put..

The single best thing Wenger did was buy Anelka, get him to play reasonable football against technically awful defenders (my defending has come on some since), sell him (for about 5 times what he bought him for) and buy Henry. Then Henry won everything. Good show.

edit: Tl;dr: Wenger done ok with massive resources, Henry was the best striker I've ever seen.

If you scout the same player many times you get the same report many times. Come on lads, I need something solid here!

The first time you get limited information, scout several times to get full information - its not rocket science!

I agree with earmack. Wenger had the backing up of a great club. And there he could apply his philosophy. That is very difficult to do in the game FM09 because there is no way you can teach the youngsters in your team what the essence of pure football is as Wenger does.

As for the very rich information you get when you scout a player several times, that must be correct in another game. In FM09 you get the same limited simple stuff. Only the genius genie can really help.

As for the very rich information you get when you scout a player several times, that must be correct in another game. In FM09 you get the same limited simple stuff. Only the genius genie can really help.

I've found that the scout information in FM09 has been brilliant, if anything I would complain that it is too good.

Are you paid for promoting the genie scout or something? You seem a little obsessed.

OK you're not being serious now and this is a serious conversation. Arsene would have thrown pizza at you!

edit: That was for my friend dafuge but it suited to the next comment also. I just noticed dafuge is a moderator. I see, I see...

OK you're not being serious now and this is a serious conversation. Arsene would have thrown a piece of pizza at you!

I didn't see that piece of pizza being thrown

I hate it when people talk about the Wenger philosophy. Why is he always defined by what he's done in the past few seasons - when he hasn't won anything for the past few seasons.

He used to buy players over 21, back when Arsenal used to win stuff.

He used to spend decent money (though rarely huge amounts) on players, back when Arsenal used to win stuff.

Maybe it's because everyone thinks that the "Invincibles" were his greatest team, when I preferred his 2001-02 team, but I don't see his philosophy as anything other than a pragmatic response to stadium-imposed debt. Since he started playing only young players, his teams have been nowhere near as good to watch - they pass it around at half-way, when his best teams used to be all about surging counter-attacks from Pires, Ljunberg, Henry.

In actual answer to the question: I am currently doing what Wenger has been doing for a while, I'm sitting in the Champion's League spots waiting for my young players to come of age. My greatest prodigy is now a CM for England, and I've finally got my tactics completely set, so this could be my year - I'm 2nd as it stands. I splashed some cash in my first season up from the Championship (I'm Wolves), but I haven't really spent much money since then, save for one big buy (who's flopped for the last three years, but is finally coming good).

OK you're not being serious now and this is a serious conversation. Arsene would have thrown pizza at you!

edit: That was for my friend dafuge but it suited to the next comment also. I just noticed dafuge is a moderator. I see, I see...

I don't even use player search...cheating

I just rely on my scouts and then get them to scout players for three matches before making my decision.

I havent won anything for the last 5 years.. So in a way, yes.. I achieved "Wenger" philosophy..

i currently play as man united but i for most part play by wenger's rules i buy in youth for little then train them and some i sell on when they get to old couple ill keep for next generation to help with

i have found some cracking players using nothing but in game scouts granted i do have bout 13 scouts scouting all over but i find some gems i found couple from germany recently who are regens i just make sure any one i sign that is young looks good to me and scouts say can be at least as good as a first team player

im in a game with the ageing ac milan, and my plan was to completely rebuild the squad by the end of the second season with young talents without spending above 10mill on anyone, in a wenger-esque way (and my manager is french, Michél Fontaine...i just made him up ). Originally i focused on the usual young french talents, and i won the serie-a in my second season as well as UCL semis. But the money that berlusconi gave me (140mill pounds), went to my head...and i strayed from my plan and ended going way over my 10mill limit per player....oh well...

That really is quite an achievement, well done mate.

Yeah I agree, excellent effort mate. I wish I had the patience to play the game that long.

Cheers

I am not surprised that there are Wenger haters. However, he is a unique philosopher of football and historicaly as important as Plato. Maybe more. Few people can actually think at the higher level he has reached and realise that "winning trophies" is completely irrelevant. What I wanted to talk about is how can someone reach the mental heights of Arsenal football.

Plug-and-play tactics as well as obscure 27th division teams that conquer the champions league are not relevant.

I suppose that way to do it, is first comprehent the genius o Arsene Wenger. This may take a lot of time and some people cannot really do it.

I done this with HSV, had a batch of young players and regens, the average age of my team was about 20-23 as i remember, in a stretch of 10 years with the team i won 8 champions leagues (6 in a row), 10 german leagues in a row and 9 german cups, i remember i quit the save as it was running really slow in future (FM09) i was in about 2023 by the time it finished, i really cant remember as far as i can remember "Saivet" was about 33 by the time i quit.

But Richy, didn't we just say that trophies don't matter and what we are looking for here is a bhuddist and philosophical football?

I agree with earmack. Wenger had the backing up of a great club. And there he could apply his philosophy. That is very difficult to do in the game FM09 because there is no way you can teach the youngsters in your team what the essence of pure football is as Wenger does.

As for the very rich information you get when you scout a player several times, that must be correct in another game. In FM09 you get the same limited simple stuff. Only the genius genie can really help.

I think you can. If you set up your "Wenger tactic" for your first team, and you give your reserves and u-18 teams the same tactic to use they will learn how to play that tactic. And when you eventually promote them to the first team, they will know how to handle your gameplan. At least that is what I've been doing since FM07 and it works well for me, lots of youngsters have walked into my first team and preforming real good and developing nicely. In the lower leagues, this can of course be hard to do since you have very limited funds and coaches of good quality.

When it comes to scouting I use my own scouts as well. I get a lot of decent recommendations (not high that is, but even scouts can be wrong!) and I scout them a few more times and check their stats page myself first to see if he truly could have the potential. Then I go on and sign him for a fee I see him worth for. You will nearly always make money from the players that won't make it at your club. I bought for instance a Spanish midfielder who my scouts recommended to me for £50K and after a few Carling Cup games he is now worth £4.5M! Or a English RB from Huddersfild for £325K and is now a England international and worth near £20M. So as you can see, scouts "in game" do work, but don't expect them to recommend you 10+ potential superstars for the future. Even if they do have the potential to make it, they might never reach it...I've had my fair share of those over the years. As I said previously, scouts can even be wrong on player potential (both good and bad). I've had a couple of decent recommendations that has turned out to be future stars at the club.

I can only conclude all the people who think Arsenal were "Top 4" before Wenger arrived are 12.

They were mid-table, their only good players were defenders (Ian Wright unfortunately excepted), and they played rancid football.

SnakeXe, they also had Bergkamp and Platt

but any team that had DB10, Wright, Merson, Platt, Romford Pele as well as a peak era Seaman, Adams, Bould, Keown, Dixon, Winterburn were bound to have success, and they certainly didn't play rancid football.

Did this with Arsenal a while ago. But I took it to the extreme

Made only free signings and loans, and they had to be U21's. Did the treble in my first season iirc, and quadruple from then on. Bendtner is too good.

I do have a habit of aggressively buying a lot of youngsters. I decide to work on Wenger's philosophy once the newgens start to come in, because then I can't depend on any RL stuff that may be lingering.

Not all the players fit the bill but a lot manage to. The sales help me to buy up more youngsters.

I'm also glad that after several seasons I've managed to find the great passing 4-3-3 system that I wasn't able to directly import from 08.

Training gives ball control on high for all players, as well as tactics to build up their intelligence.

The last of the RL players are phasing out into retirement now, newgens are now taking the spotlight. Unfortunately, this is also a time, then, when AI teams don't seem to threaten as much, since they aren't as aggressive in the market and their newgen teams just don't seem to perform as well as the RL player ones. That's what I've found in FM, anyway.

I was doing this, then I realised that I would never ever beat Arsenal to the title. So now I have spent loads of money trying to outdo them, and I'm still no better off

Exactly what I did

In 2024, playing with Enfield town, had the youth philosophy, didn't sign anyone over 18, then nearly got relegated.

Sold my world class centre back for 60mil as he wanted to leave, still had a load of money.

Decided I wanted to win something, signed 2 £20mil centre mids, and a £28mil striker.

Won the league