lower leagues

does anybody plan to make the leagues below the bsn and bss in england, just wondered out of interest

Yes. Some people are even talking about adding every single English league.

The lowest league is a Bristol division, at the 24th tier - http://www.thepyramid.info/asp/pyramid3.asp

Although there isn't room on the CA scale below level 10 or 11, so after that players would be of the same quality whatever tier you play in.

Imagine the player stats though; in the BS North / South an attribute in double figures is "good". Keep going down the pyramid and players will have 2/3 or 4 for their attributes... If those leagues get made might look for curiosity value but can't playing them much

I don't doubt there will be people creating those leagues, but all of them?

Wouldn't the 8th level be the max, considering that the player stats can't get any lower? Ah well I'm not complaining.

Here another link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_league_system

Its gonna add a new dimension to the game with this new League addition, i cant wait

I really wonder how practical the editor will be. I can see people adding small foreign leagues where there is only 10 or 12 teams in a division. However, adding the next tier in England will be a big job (approx 70 teams) each needing a squad of 25 - 30 players, each player with 40ish attributes and, if it's to be done properly, height, weight, skin colour, hair colour etc, etc. Okay, so alot of this will already be in the database but dropping down another tier will be a nightmare to research due to high turnover of players at that level.

Don't get me wrong - the editor is a welcome addition and must be a fantastic piece of programming and I would love to see the community pull it off. I just think that people's expectations are maybe a bit too high.

I think the editor will be great for creating high profile leagues which are currently excluded. The likes of Japan, Qatar etc. I'm not expecting too much from the likes of the British Gas Southern league divison 2 though

Will certainly use the editor to add Latvian league..! No need to add anything below BSS and BSN in my opinion, as someone mentioned above, even in these divisons ''10'' is a good attribute already. what will happen in lower leagues..? player with ''5'' pace and acceleration will be considered speedy..?

Although there isn't room on the CA scale below level 10 or 11, so after that players would be of the same quality whatever tier you play in.

I don't agree. I mean, in real life, at a point, all the players become, from a playing level perspective, rubbish and zeroes. And from that level downwards, there's not much difference, really; and it can possibly be made by the value of one particular player, that won't last long and will get to a better club eventually. So I say CA fits perfectly if much lower leagues in England would be implemented. As in reality, you can't go below some point; to even be a footballer, one can say you need to know at least what to do with the ball, so that gives you 1 CA point

I don't agree. I mean, in real life, at a point, all the players become, from a playing level perspective, rubbish and zeroes. And from that level downwards, there's not much difference, really; and it can possibly be made by the value of one particular player, that won't last long and will get to a better club eventually. So I say CA fits perfectly if much lower leagues in England would be implemented. As in reality, you can't go below some point; to even be a footballer, one can say you need to know at least what to do with the ball, so that gives you 1 CA point

If you check with the editor, you'll see the Fiji clubs have mostly players with PA max 20; plenty are 10, with CA in single figures. So they're already in the game. One fella made a Fiji database which I downloaded. The quality of play was gloriously awful

I'll be more than happy to start in a tier at that level with a bit of cash and buy my way up!

The more leagues, the more realism.

I'll definetly add some lower leagues. Question is only how far will I'll be able, since in many countrys the further down the systems I search the harder is it to get the info about them.

hopefully you guys who make these lower league will post them to upload onto other peoples games, this would be great

hopefully you guys who make these lower league will post them to upload onto other peoples games, this would be great

I'm sure they will. I can see the wonderful Editors' Hideaway becoming the most popular forum on this site!

To be honest, I think this has to be done.

There would be no greater achievement in the game then to take a club from the bottomless pit of the English football league system, to the top of the world.

I mean, it is hard enough for most people to make it from the Blue Square N/S leagues to the top of the EPL, let alone from the very bottom of the pit. I'd definitely be up for the challenge.

FYI: if you were to add all teams in the English league system, you'd be adding about 7,000 clubs. It wouldn't 'too' bad if you could auto-fill all the teams below the 7th tier (I think 7th tier teams already exist in the game and have key players and staff).

adding another 24 leagues to the English structure would be crazy.

adding another 24 leagues to the English structure would be crazy.

Actually, 24 tiers of English football = 480 leagues = approx. 7000 clubs

If you were to add the tier below Blue Square N/S, you'd add 3 leagues, and 66 clubs (although most exist within the game already).

If you added the tier below that, being tier 8, you'd add 6 more leagues, and 132 more clubs just for that tier.

If you dropped down to tier 9 you'd add 14 leagues, and you'd add 290 clubs.

The biggest tier is #14 which has 80 leagues, which would equate to around 1000 clubs.

Pretty much, I don't expect to see people bother going past tier 8 (which adds only 2 more steps to the English league system)

I think the existing club data on the FM database only goes down to step 5 anyway.

Personally, I will definitely be adding step 3 and step 4. I doubt I will be adding in any leagues below that. The game would probably become too slow with all of the regional leagues at step 5 and below!

Great to be able to have more depth in non-League though.

Regards,

C.

I don't agree. I mean, in real life, at a point, all the players become, from a playing level perspective, rubbish and zeroes. And from that level downwards, there's not much difference, really; and it can possibly be made by the value of one particular player, that won't last long and will get to a better club eventually. So I say CA fits perfectly if much lower leagues in England would be implemented. As in reality, you can't go below some point; to even be a footballer, one can say you need to know at least what to do with the ball, so that gives you 1 CA point

Well no, the lower you go, the players will generally be worse. If you added pub leagues realistically for example, most pub players wouldn't deserve a CA of 1, they just don't fit on the scale of FM.

I will add 3 leagues below Con n/s

Cup competitions will be fun

Actually, I might well end up adding step 5 as well like you bobatwal. The cup competitions will be much more fun, you are right.

Regards,

C.

Yes. Some people are even talking about adding every single English league.

The lowest league is a Bristol division, at the 24th tier - http://www.thepyramid.info/asp/pyramid3.asp

I dont think I'd have either the patience or the computer to take a team from the 24th tier all the way to the premiership. Can you just imagine how long it would take do load a game of this size?

Where I think this will have a major impact is the leagues such as the Welsh and Greek leagues (for those who play it at least) where there are very few divisions represented in game currently. Looking forward to it.

Whatever league is added, it will be fun for the gamer

Well no, the lower you go, the players will generally be worse. If you added pub leagues realistically for example, most pub players wouldn't deserve a CA of 1, they just don't fit on the scale of FM.

My point was that knowing how to properly hit a football is enough for a 1 attibute at say, passing or shooting. Or anyone can particularly throw a ball from the line at most times, that deserves a 2 or 3. And so on.

I think even in the lowest possible league in the English pyramid system you could still have players with reasonable mental attributes such as bravery or even physical attributes such as jumping. Its even conceivable that someone playing in a Bristol regional league could have a mighty long throw, the point is that almost every player from Tier 8 or 9 down would have to have technique, passing and probably the likes of first touch and dribbling at a rating of 1 under the current 1-20 system.

Here's an example of a player in the Fermanagh & Western League in NI from FM09, rest assured this would rank way,way down the English pyramid - note he has the one or two decent physical and mental attribute however his technical stats are uniformly rubbish, as they have to be for the game to maintain its level of realism.

As enticing it may sound to play with hundred's of English leagues, I'm really not sure how much fun it could really be playing with a database where about 98% of the thousand's upon thousand's of players are thorougly terrible with no potential to develop. I think the Ryman/Unibond tier would be really be far enough using the ratings that FM currently uses.

going to add the unibond leagues

Snip

It'd be pretty hard to differentiate between the very low leagues for sure with players. I'm guessing that after adding one or two tiers you'd end up with squads full of rubbish players with no value. A team in the 24th tier may very well be able to mix it with a team in the 12th tier. I think it'd be quite enjoyable to battle around in the ultra-low leagues with a bunch of talentless players. The dynamics of managing your side would be a lot different, given that the moment one of your players has any value, he'd probably leave.

It'd be pretty hard to differentiate between the very low leagues for sure with players. I'm guessing that after adding one or two tiers you'd end up with squads full of rubbish players with no value. A team in the 24th tier may very well be able to mix it with a team in the 12th tier. I think it'd be quite enjoyable to battle around in the ultra-low leagues with a bunch of talentless players. The dynamics of managing your side would be a lot different, given that the moment one of your players has any value, he'd probably leave.

8 tier would probably be playable for most.

I'll certainly be adding the full pyramid structure, but just for fun

I'll certainly be adding the full pyramid structure, but just for fun

So there are 483 leagues? http://www.thepyramid.info/stats/stats.htm

also since I never cared about playing in big leagues, for me putting those leagues might be very great experience, but don't forget that you are all talking only about English leagues, there leagues many leagues in the world that is more deserving to be added than some Blind One-Legged Grandma League division 3

I doubt the FA Vase can be put in properly?

So there are 483 leagues? http://www.thepyramid.info/stats/stats.htm

around 4,500 clubs iirc

Apart from the current CA model, my other worry is league reputation. I'm not sure, but doesn't the BSN/S have a reputation of 3?

If so, the next level will have 2, and then everything will have 1. That'll mean that players see the 8th tier being as attractive to play in as the 24th tier. Imagine playing as an 8th tier side and getting beaten to a signing by someone in the Bristol Downs League Division 4.

One more thought, imagine a tycoon takeover at tier 24...

One more thought, imagine a tycoon takeover at tier 24...

I bet that thats exactly what a lot of us plan to do. Start off with a village pub team in tier 999 with a stash of cash to buy our way up the leagues. With a diddly league reputation it will be hard to attract decent players but if they are a smidgin above the rest in the division and we get our tactics sorted, it will be a great long term challenge!

I so much would enjoy to manage Halifax again...

Apart from the current CA model, my other worry is league reputation. I'm not sure, but doesn't the BSN/S have a reputation of 3?

If so, the next level will have 2, and then everything will have 1. That'll mean that players see the 8th tier being as attractive to play in as the 24th tier. Imagine playing as an 8th tier side and getting beaten to a signing by someone in the Bristol Downs League Division 4.

One more thought, imagine a tycoon takeover at tier 24...

From the FM 09 editor

BSP - 4/20

BS N/S - 3

Isthmian, Northern & Southern Premier leagues - 3

Isthmian, Northern & Southern First divisions - 2

County leagues - 1

So good point, room for maybe level 10, but not much more.

I think people are thinking of the regional divisions too much like the professional structure. There is unlikely to be a linear decrease in standard across the tiers as players will be amateurs below a certain level. As such players are unlikely to want to travel vast distances at their own expense just to play a few tiers higher up. Player's motivations are different at that level!

For me though tier 8 will be plenty!!

I would have thought the difference in club reputation would make up for the league reps.

A team in the 10th tier might have a rep of about 200, a small stadium and be able to pay 30 quid a week wages. a 24th tier team would have a rep of 1, no stadium and no wage budget.

I don't think playing the 24th tier would be a good idea, but I reckon it would probably be possible if you had a good enough computer.

Personally, I'd like to go down to the 12th tier and play as my local team.

The more leagues, the more realism.

I'll definetly add some lower leagues. Question is only how far will I'll be able, since in many countrys the further down the systems I search the harder is it to get the info about them.

I agrree with you here. SI should include ALL leagues in the footballing world for the added realism!

I think people are thinking of the regional divisions too much like the professional structure. There is unlikely to be a linear decrease in standard across the tiers as players will be amateurs below a certain level. As such players are unlikely to want to travel vast distances at their own expense just to play a few tiers higher up. Player's motivations are different at that level!

For me though tier 8 will be plenty!!

It's a good point though the bigger problem is this - http://www.thepyramid.info/stats/stats.htm

From level 11 down to level 19 there are over 400 divisions, plus cup competitions. The game would be too slow for anyone.

It's a good point though the bigger problem is this - http://www.thepyramid.info/stats/stats.htm

From level 11 down to level 19 there are over 400 divisions, plus cup competitions. The game would be too slow for anyone.

Totally agree, 16 divisions from 8 tiers requiring 4 promotions to get to the football league is enough challenge for me (and my poor lap top)!!

Yeh teir 8 will do me. Will also add American somoa league, love the AS challenage but it very hard with no youth players coming through.

Will also do a couple more welsh leagues...