Potential Ability

Do players potential ability change or is it just players current ability that alters.

Thanks

PA stays the same through the whole game.

CA changes through the game.

So yeah, what you said.

Although apparently it can decrease due to bad injuries, which kind of defeats the purpose of a static PA imo.

Although apparently it can decrease due to bad injuries, which kind of defeats the purpose of a static PA imo.

I'm pretty sure PA can NEVER decrease.

I don't think can PA decreases.

but as said a player needs good form, 1st team games and decent training facilities to get close to there PA

pa can decrease. My regen centre back got a broken arm and the physio said that he would not reach his full potential because of it.

pa can decrease. My regen centre back got a broken arm and the physio said that he would not reach his full potential because of it.

His PA didn't decrease, the chances of him ever reaching his PA decreased, which is how it works. PA will always remain the same, afaik, an injury will only limit the possibility of a player ever reaching maximum potential, it won't actually affect their PA.

PA is set by the game at the start of a new game and will not change during that game.

PA can be different in a new game because it is set randomly within a range of figures, so it can be different from game to game.

There is no evidence to suggest that the PA can change within one save.

CA can go up and down, depending on lots of parameters like the one above.

pa can decrease. My regen centre back got a broken arm and the physio said that he would not reach his full potential because of it.

Terrible logic

If that meant his PA reduced, that would also mean he would have more chance of reaching his PA. Which would mean that his broken arm would give him more chanve of being good.

What's happened there is that his Current Ability dropped, making the difference between his CA and PA greater. Which, obviously, means he has less chance of reaching his full potential.

Potential ability needs to go soon I think. Let players personality, age, form, injuries and competition level alter the way they can progress. The sky should be the limit for any player.

I made a squad of 22 players, all aged 18, for a BSS team. Each of the players had 200 potential ability and CA varying between 70 and 90. I then holidayed. 7 years later, only 1 guy has became an international (198 CA). This is because he is very professional (19). The second highest player is 158 CA playing for mid table prem side. The lowest player is 92 CA rotting away in some lower leagues reserve team.

Ditch the artificial cap, make players attitudes and all the other factors the reasoning for players developing.

However, in order for this to happen, players personalities will have to change more frequently, making you as a manager make sure your young players keep there head screwed on in order for them to improve.

Maybe adding a hidden desire attribute could be cool. Young youth player, burning desire = 20. 5 years later, still not getting 1st team action, desire falls to 10. Gets a decent move and plays 1st team action, desire goes back up to 15. Ambitious player hits 30 and big team decides not to renew his contract and he can only sign for a lower league club, desire falls, he loses interest because not playing at high level anymore and decides to retire early. (Just realised the happiness rating could/does do this)

Sorry for going off on one. I just think this area of the game can be expanded so much more as, in real life, there's factors into why some players develop and others fizzle away.

Potential ability needs to go soon I think. Let players personality, age, form, injuries and competition level alter the way they can progress. The sky should be the limit for any player.

As long as you don't look up their potential ability, this is pretty much how it works.

I think any player should have a high PA but most wont reach it due to all the parameters which affect it now.

Who fancies a static PA vs non-static PA discussion?

As long as you don't look up their potential ability, this is pretty much how it works.

I know it is...what I'm trying to say is, PA is no longer needed because of this. Anyone should be able to become the world's best player...and they will as long as they have the right attitude, luck, play at the highest level etc etc...

I know it is...what I'm trying to say is, PA is no longer needed because of this. Anyone should be able to become the world's best player...and they will as long as they have the right attitude, luck, play at the highest level etc etc...

I don't agree with static PA, but I really don't agree that it should be removed altogether or that any player can become the worlds best.

I don't agree with static PA, but I really don't agree that it should be removed altogether or that any player can become the worlds best.

I would like to know why you don't agree?

Put simply, Neil Ruddock, regardless of attitude, luck and the level he played at, was never going to be as good as Franco Baresi. Luke Chadwick, with all the luck in the world, playing for one of the biggest teams in the world and with the right attitude, was never goign to be as good Ronaldo.

I know it is...what I'm trying to say is, PA is no longer needed because of this. Anyone should be able to become the world's best player...and they will as long as they have the right attitude, luck, play at the highest level etc etc...

When a new players is generated, they do have the potential to be the world's best player though as they could have a PA of 200.

If you keep this in mind and never look at any PAs you should find the model works quite well.

I know it is...what I'm trying to say is, PA is no longer needed because of this. Anyone should be able to become the world's best player...and they will as long as they have the right attitude, luck, play at the highest level etc etc...

Everyone has a limit. There are plenty of very hard working, professional and ambitious players that can't improve much further. They can't become the best in the world just through putting in even more effort and getting more luck.

Personality, injuries, coaching etc all play a part in the game, potential isn't the level a player will reach, just where they might be able to reach. It's worked well for a long time now and allowing every player to potentially become the best in the world would ruin the game completely.

Btw, it should be noted that a player (on FM) can become the best player in the world, whether their PA is high or not. Playing 08 last night and my 152 PA Italian CM was named World Footballer of The Year, so......

Put simply, Neil Ruddock, regardless of attitude, luck and the level he played at, was never going to be as good as Franco Baresi. Luke Chadwick, with all the luck in the world, playing for one of the biggest teams in the world and with the right attitude, was never goign to be as good Ronaldo.

Why could Razor Ruddock never be as good as Baresi? Maybe because his professionalism and natural fitness wasn't good enough? Maybe if he was more professional (boozed less, trained harder) he could of been better? His athleticsm (natural fitness) would hinder his ability to rise his CA over 160 CA or whatever he would of been!

Luke Chadwick? Didnt have the ability (CA) to play enough games at Man Utd well enough, so that slows/stops his CA rising so he moves to a lower league team so he can get games and start improving again...however in doing so maybe he lost a little bit of desire (determination, ambition) and playing at lower level he's not going to improve to become the worlds best player.

They are just things of the top of my head why they didnt become a world class player.

If Ronaldo stayed at Sporting 2 more years and went somewhere other than Man Utd would he be the player he is now? Who knows? Alex Fergie helped nuture him along superbly. But who's to say he would of been as good if he moved to a team who's manager let him get away with unprofessional behaviour?

I compeltely disagree. Neil Ruddock didn't have the ability, end of story, imho.

Put it this way; two boys are born on 13.12.89, they live in the same street, their parents are equally loving, they have equal amounts of opportunities, luck etc, everything in their life is identical. Do these boys have identical ability? Would one be better than the other, or are the chances of that very slim?

I compeltely disagree. Neil Ruddock didn't have the ability, end of story, imho.

Put it this way; two boys are born on 13.12.89, they live in the same street, their parents are equally loving, they have equal amounts of opportunities, luck etc, everything in their life is identical. Do these boys have identical ability? Would one be better than the other, or are the chances of that very slim?

Their potential would be judged on their personality: If Person A is a more hard-working guy and is more driven to be good at something than Person B, then by the time they are 10, Person A will be better. However, Person B could have lucked out in the gene pool and just have a greater naturally gifted athletic body and still get to a decent level of ability. Even if lazy as pie. Looking at you Stan Collymore. So they could be on par, or one of the guys could have just improved a lot more than the other.

They are identical in every way. Are they automatically identical in ability?

PA should stay as it is in my opinion. Players need to be limited on how good they can become, if not then once you have great training facilities you can buy any player and if he has the right attitude he would become world class thats not how football and ability work. Some people are simply born with what it takes to become a world class player, others even with the right attitude will never be good enough to become world class.

Are you saying every player should have no limit on how good they can become?

Anyone should be able to become the world's best player...and they will as long as they have the right attitude, luck, play at the highest level etc etc...

It comes down to genes. Not everyone has the potential no matter what coaching they have to be the best player in the world. There are things in peoples genetic makeup which prevent people achieving things no matter what they do in life and thus are out of their hands.

A 4 foot 2 man is never going to be a world record long jumper. I was never going to be a professional footballer no matter what training I had from birth etc etc

Nurture can help people reach their potential. But each person has a predefined upper limit depending on nature and there is no way of exceeding that.

Nurture can help you fulfill potential set out by nature NOT exceed it. That would be an oxymoron.

A large number of people in this thread don't understand the actual dictionary definition of potential.

PA should stay as it is in my opinion. Players need to be limited on how good they can become, if not then once you have great training facilities you can buy any player and if he has the right attitude he would become world class thats not how football and ability work.

I beg to differ. That is how football and generally life works. You need a bit of luck along the way, but if you work hard you will get the rewards. Name me one world class player with terrible terrible attitude...?

PA should stay as it is in my opinion. Players need to be limited on how good they can become, if not then once you have great training facilities you can buy any player and if he has the right attitude he would become world class thats not how football and ability work. Some people are simply born with what it takes to become a world class player, others even with the right attitude will never be good enough to become world class.

Are you saying every player should have no limit on how good they can become?

It comes down to genes. Not everyone has the potential no matter what coaching they have to be the best player in the world. There are things in peoples genetic makeup which prevent people achieving things no matter what they do in life and thus are out of their hands.

A 4 foot 2 man is never going to be a world record long jumper. I was never going to be a professional footballer no matter what training I had from birth etc etc

Nurture can help people reach their potential. But each person has a predefined upper limit depending on nature and there is no way of exceeding that.

Nurture can help you fulfill potential set out by nature NOT exceed it. That would be an oxymoron.

A large number of people in this thread don't understand the actual dictionary definition of potential.

I agree. That's why natural fitness is important. The higher the natural fitness, then the more potential that player should have. Back to the Razor Ruddock arguement. He was never going to be world class could he lacked the natural fitness to do so.

but if you work hard you will get the rewards. Name me one world class player with terrible terrible attitude...?

Adriano, Ronaldo (the fat one). Go back further, Maradona, George Best.

Are you seriously saying that Razor Ruddock could have been the ebst defender in the world, had he been naturally fit?

So if you got your way in FM you can buy any player that is 16 years old and has the right attitude, take them to a top club and turn them into world class players?

Riquelme is world class but has a bad attitude, his ability is unquestionable but his natural fitness is bad, so is the original Ronaldo.

I agree.

I'm not sure that you do.

You are still saying the opposite to my post.

Anyone should be able to become the world's best player...and they will as long as they have the right attitude, luck, play at the highest level etc etc...

Btw, your set up would mean that if I was Man United I could sign a bunch of 14 year olds (in game) and just sit back and watch them become Premiership quality, unless they get injured and as long as their personality is "right". That's bizarre.

So if you got your way in FM you can buy any player that is 16 years old and has the right attitude, take them to a top club and turn them into world class players?

If you have good coaches, he works hard, doesn't get injuries then yeah why not. But he has to be good enough to start with (IE: good enough CA). No good buying a 16 year old that can't even play for Grimbsy reserves for Man Utd because he won't be good enough to play well and in turn become a better player. He'll play poorly, lose confidence, which will in turn lose his will to better himself. Turn to boozy nights out and generally start getting worse to the point he's retired by the age of 19 to become a low-life bum.

What about players like Cassano the guy has huge natural ability but is a lazy gimp, how would players like him come about in your world?

Adriano, Ronaldo (the fat one). Go back further, Maradona, George Best.

Are you seriously saying that Razor Ruddock could have been the ebst defender in the world, had he been naturally fit?

How long was Bestie world class for? His behaviour got more and more unprofessional after he became world class and he then lost his determination, so his CA started to dip. All those people started getting more unprofessional and not as hungry after they became famous. You watch and see if C.Ronaldo goes the way of fat ronaldo now he's getting big for his boots...Ronaldinho is not the same player he was 5 years ago either.

And regarding Razor...you seem to forget that if he had been more naturally fit he would have a totally different build so yeah he would of had more chance to become world class.

Um....

Name me one world class player with terrible terrible attitude...?

I did, you agreed with me, so I don't see your point. Unless you're agreeing with me now

What about players like Cassano the guy has huge natural ability but is a lazy gimp, how would players like him come about in your world?

Easy...Big CA for a youngster when he signed for Roma. Starts believing his own hype, gets a little bit more unprofessional, slows down his improvement, but he's young and playing for a great side so he's still improving. Albeit, slower than he would be if he was more professional. Falls out with Roma and joins Real Madrid. He then falls out with Real Madrid. At this point he is stalling his growth because he's not playing enough games.

Joins Sampdoria. 1st season gets a five match ban...maybe that discipline will make him control his temperment in the future, his temp rises maybe..gets sent off less in future? who knows...anyway going off-topic here.

Anywho, is Cassano world-class? I would say no because his unprofessionalism has held him back from becoming truly world-class in the past. However, if he sorts it out, and it looks like he might be then he has chance to improve but he needs to play at the highest level to do so (champs league, international football etc). Plus he's getting on a bit now so his rate of improvement will be slower.

Um....

I did, you agreed with me, so I don't see your point. Unless you're agreeing with me now

Eh? When did I agree with you...? I said the players were world class but then their attitude changed and they stopped being world class. I hope I'm not sounding arsey...I've been enjoying the discussion

I'm going to leave it at that i'm afraid. I find your opinion of football, nevermind how ability actually works, utterly bizarre, but each to their own I suppose.

Easy...Big CA for a youngster when he signed for Roma. Starts believing his own hype, gets a little bit more unprofessional, slows down his improvement, but he's young and playing for a great side so he's still improving. Albeit, slower than he would be if he was more professional. Falls out with Roma and joins Real Madrid. He then falls out with Real Madrid. At this point he is stalling his growth because he's not playing enough games.

Joins Sampdoria. 1st season gets a five match ban...maybe that discipline will make him control his temperment in the future, his temp rises maybe..gets sent off less in future? who knows...anyway going off-topic here.

Anywho, is Cassano world-class? I would say no because his unprofessionalism has held him back from becoming truly world-class in the past. However, if he sorts it out, and it looks like he might be then he has chance to improve but he needs to play at the highest level to do so (champs league, international football etc). Plus he's getting on a bit now so his rate of improvement will be slower.

I never said he was world class just wanted to know how an idiot with huge ability could get that way in your version.

He (Izzet) is actually somewhat right. Static PA is obsolete. How many times has a researcher changed the PA of a player. Is there a player who didn't have his PA changed in the last few years.

The problem of the game is that it's too easy to make a player world class if he has the potential. I do think there should be a hidden attribute of natural talent (perhaps seperately physichal, mental and technical). But that attribute should not be as rigid, crude and one-dimensional as PA currently is. Also reaching world-class stature even for the most talented players should be very difficult. Right now, way too easy.

I'm going to leave it at that i'm afraid. I find your opinion of football, nevermind how ability actually works, utterly bizarre, but each to their own I suppose.

Have to agree to disagree then.

He (Izzet) is actually somewhat right. Static PA is obsolete. How many times has a researcher changed the PA of a player. Is there a player who didn't have his PA changed in the last few years.

The problem of the game is that it's too easy to make a player world class if he has the potential. I do think there should be a hidden attribute of natural talent (perhaps seperately physichal, mental and technical). But that attribute should not be as rigid, crude and one-dimensional as PA currently is. Also reaching world-class stature even for the most talented players should be very difficult. Right now, way too easy.

Yup, I agree with you on that point. Way too easy to reach it at the minute. If the player has high professionalism then he pretty much reaches his potential with no worries. There are other factors that should come into play that I have discussed but anywho...the whole convo has left me hungry, I'm going to leave it for now.

He (Izzet) is actually somewhat right. Static PA is obsolete. How many times has a researcher changed the PA of a player. Is there a player who didn't have his PA changed in the last few years.

A researcher changing the PA of a player from FM08 to FM09 is irrelevant. They would be basing such a decision on real life in order to get the game as accurate as possible for that point in time. It has no bearing what so ever on the potential it is just they are using new evidence to correctly give a player the PA.

The problem of the game is that it's too easy to make a player world class if he has the potential.

Only if you know he has the potential in the first place

Like I've suggested before, try playing the game without looking at CA/PAs. Try to use your own judgement to decide if a player will make it and suddenly the CA/PA system will start to work as all you'll see is some players making it and some not.

A researcher changing the PA of a player from FM08 to FM09 is irrelevant. They would be basing such a decision on real life in order to get the game as accurate as possible for that point in time. It has no bearing what so ever on the potential it is just they are using new evidence to correctly give a player the PA.

exactly my point. Researcher has seen that the player isn't what he originally thought the player would be and decided to "fix" the error. It is impossible to judge the potential of a young player. Modric has had his potential changed in last three games.

Just because something is impossible to judge, it doesn't mean that the researchers shouldn't try. Potential Ability has a more than sound basis is things like Genetics and a players early development (i.e. before he is anywhere near appearing in the game) so it should be in the game. Personally, I think player potentials should in general be a bit higher and players should be much less likely to reach them, but until the game gets the player development module spot on, having lower potentials is a reasonable compromise.

Only if you know he has the potential in the first place

Like I've suggested before, try playing the game without looking at CA/PAs. Try to use your own judgement to decide if a player will make it and suddenly the CA/PA system will start to work as all you'll see is some players making it and some not.

How I play my game is my own bussiness and I don't like when people assume how I play my game.

Let me rephrase my original statement. It's too easy to make players reach their max potential. I find it stupid that my coaches/scouts report that a 18 year old player is playing near his full potential.

Only if you know he has the potential in the first place

Like I've suggested before, try playing the game without looking at CA/PAs. Try to use your own judgement to decide if a player will make it and suddenly the CA/PA system will start to work as all you'll see is some players making it and some not.

I do play it this way and it bugs me. It bugs me when a young 19 year old with seemingly a good attitude, is my star man for the season. It bugs me when this same star man for 3 years running is now 22 and has not improved one bit from when he was 19. It makes no sense. He plays well, trains well, we have good facilities, he plays in a top tournament, however he still can't get any better...

I do play it this way and it bugs me. It bugs me when a young 19 year old with seemingly a good attitude, is my star man for the season. It bugs me when this same star man for 3 years running is now 22 and has not improved one bit from when he was 19. It makes no sense. He plays well, trains well, we have good facilities, he plays in a top tournament, however he still can't get any better...

Why does it bug you? He has fulfilled his potential. For example it could be physically impossible for his body to run any faster or jump any higher. If people could always improve why can't anyone do the 100m in 4 seconds? There is a barrier where improvements stop for everyone, and these barriers aren't uniform as it is based on genetics.