Injuries, injuries and more injuries - a little rant and a cry for help

Hello all,

I've just started playing 09 again for a bit.

You can guess from the title what my current problem is. I'm finding it difficult to bed in a new team whilst having so many injuries.

I've had at least 5 or 6 players out at a time since the beginning of the season and often more than that. All of them are picking up injuries in matches and seem to be ruled out for at least 4 to 5 weeks at a time.

My training schedules are basically ones that I have imported from FM08, where they worked perfectly. All training schedules are set to the 'medium' intensity with all strength and aerobic training at medium. Also, all of the injuries appear to be occurring during matches so I don't think that my training is at fault. :confused: I'm also very careful to bring a player back slowly, giving him matches in the reserves until he is match fit.

I do have one or two players who I know are injury prone in real life but ironically it isn't those players who are getting injured all of the time!

It's getting a bit silly now as I cannot ever keep the same team together on the field from game to game.

It's spoiling my season because my players aren't gelling and I've had to keep changing formation and tactics to cope with the injuries.

Right now I have 6 of my best players out and it has been like that since the beginning of the season!

So I'm crying out for some advice. Anyone have any good tips on how to avoid these kind of injuries? Is it my fault or are my players just injury prone? Could I maybe avoid more injuries by reducing my training intensity even further?

Any tips appreciated.

Regards,

C.

Do you play a hard-tackling, fast-paced game? Maybe this contributes. Slow it down a bit or go a little more defensive, and maybe the other team won't have to attack your guys. I don't know. Unlucky, really. But I've been in your position, and unless the squad has a lot of depth it can be a season killer.

I play global normal tackling, using the OI to target players for hard tackling. My tempo is normally always set to a 'normal' pace.

The trouble is, I'm playing in the Blue Square South and trying to play realistically, so I've got a fairly small squad.

All this switching players means the team aren't gelling and I'm having to switch between 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 variations every game.

I just got settled into a system I like for a couple of games and two of my midfielders and a striker have suddenly got injured.

Right now I have 6 of my best players out and it has been like that since the beginning of the season! I'm starting to lose my motivation to play this save, which is a shame because I was just beginning to enjoy it.

Thanks for your answer though.

Do you think perhaps lowering my training intensity to a few notches below medium might do the trick? Maybe lower aerobics and strength for everyone too?

Cheers,

C.

Sorry Crouchy, it's an issue that exists despite any patch you play and no matter what you do. On average, come Christmas and beyond, you'll have between 4 to 9 players constantly injured. If you have none injured, the game evens it up by injuring four players in one match.

It isn't coincidence ^^ The match engine is broken with the injury ratios way out of sync. Hopefully this will be fixed for FM10.

See here:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=69433

So big squads for the win then?

I like small squads of 20-23 players. Looks like I'm going to need a squad of around 30 to cope with these injuries.

Is there really nothing I can do.

C.

See here:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=69433

Cheers for the post. I'll check it out.

I agree with the guy in that thread who said about injuries and shots hitting woodwork being a problem. I though the latter was just my imagination but I think my team hit the woodwork around 2 or 3 times on average a game!

Is there anything that can be done to reduce the number of injuries I'm experiencing? I'll try to reduce training and see if that helps.

Thanks in advance for any advice,

C.

Currently injured:

Gary Cohen - 2 weeks with a damaged heel

Paul Hakim - 2 weeks with a bruised rib

Solomon Shields - 5 weeks and 6 weeks with a pulled hamstring

Danny Green - 4 to 5 weeks with a thigh strain

Ryan Woods - 4 weeks with a thigh strain

Chris Seeby - 4 weeks with a twisted knee

Injuries this season so far:

Lee Clarke - 3 weeks, thigh strain, in match

Gary Cohen - 3 weeks, thigh strain, in match

Gary Cohen - 1 week, dead leg, in match

Scott Cousins - 5 weeks, twisted ankle, in match

Adam Everitt - 4 weeks, back strain, in training

Paul Hakim - 4 weeks, twisted knee, in match

Ben Martin - 4 weeks, back strain, in training

Nick McNamara - 3 weeks, thigh strain, in match

Nick McNamara - 3 weeks, calf strain, in match

Jack Plummer - 3 weeks, thigh strain, in match

James Quilter - 3 weeks, twisted knee, in match

Hassan Sulaiman - 1 week, flu, N/A

Ryan Woods - 4 weeks, back strain, in training

Ryan Woods - 12 days, bruised thigh, in match

Lee Woodward - 12 days, sprained wrist, in match

Inih Effiong - 6 days, food poisoning, N/A

James Fisher - 12 days, bruised thigh, in match

Lewis Hilton - 3 weeks, calf strain, in match

Simon Martin - 3 weeks, twisted knee, in match

Chris Seeby - 6 days, dead leg, in match

From my youth team, on default training:

Austin Byfield - 3 weeks, damaged foot, in training

Dave Keegan - 8 days, flu, N/A

Mike Raby - 12 days, strained wrist, in training

Mike Raby - 10 days, bruised rib, in match

Bret Ward - 12 days, sprained wrist, in match

Roy Williams - 9 days, bruised shin, in match

Michael Archer - 4 weeks, pulled hamstring, in match

Ryan Baronet - 2 weeks, damaged heel, in training

That's 33 injuries in 4 months. I'm only in November.

I've had 25 first team injuries in 25 games (that's how many I have played so far this season).

C.

You have got the 9.3.0 patch yes? Injuries were awful prior to that.

Most of my injuries are occurring during matches.

There are quite a lot of strains and injuries like pulled hamstrings though, which makes me wonder if my training might be at fault. I'm going to try and reduce the intensity of my training by a few notches here and there.

I use hard tackling OIs quite regularly to target opposition players, so maybe I will try cutting down on these.

Not sure what else to try.

C.

You have got the 9.3.0 patch yes? Injuries were awful prior to that.

Yes, I've got the 9.3 patch.

I did play on the 9.2 patch and, to be honest, I don't think injuries have changed that much. I did have more long-term injuries on that patch but I'm getting the same amount of injuries generally now.

Any more advice arsenal_2111?

Regards,

C.

My advice would be to just carry on with the game.

The injury bug has been in lots of games now, and normally by January it is back to normal.

If that doesn't work then I have no idea I'm afraid.

I can't say I've had too much trouble with injuries, but I've noticed that at any time I've found myself experiencing constantly above-average numbers of injuries it's been due to having a low number of, or poor quality, physios.

My advice would be to just carry on with the game.

The injury bug has been in lots of games now, and normally by January it is back to normal.

If that doesn't work then I have no idea I'm afraid.

Why do you think it will get sorted by January? :confused:

I can't say I've had too much trouble with injuries, but I've noticed that at any time I've found myself experiencing constantly above-average numbers of injuries it's been due to having a low number of, or poor quality, physios.

Not much I can do about this really Hershie as I'm a Blue Square South side.

My star striker and best right back both got injured for 4 months, with torn calf muscles in the same game, and within 10mins of each other.

There isnt anything you can do to stop this, some seasons ive been fine with injuries, and other seasons ive been decimated with injuries. Same players, tactics and training.

Next time one of your better players gets injured, when he recovers and starts playing a few games as sub to ease him back in...9 times out of 10, another good player gets injured...maybe its just me, but it seems to happen everytime.

I wrote a thread on injuries a while back that has unfortunately not been tested nor either confirmed or denied hower it may be of some interest to you. Looking At Injuries.

To summarise the points of that thread when considering your rather long and horrific injury list, you are suffering from very few player to player contact injuries but a high quantity of physical over-exertion injuries. This to me says two things. 1: You are not playing a very aggressive, physical contact game or your players are managing to stay away from challenges and 2: that you are playing a game involving a lot of physical exertion such as running at high speed, twisting and turning sharply, and jumping regularly or for long periods of time throughout the match.

From the type of injuries sustained I would assume the Nick McNamara is probably a fullback or winger, or otherwise plays in a position/role that involves regularly running at high speed such as perhaps a striker chasing long range through-balls.

If any of what I have said to you makes sense, then I would suggest that you look for ways to reduce the amount of physical stress such as running that your players are subjected to in a match.

Not much I can do about this really Hershie as I'm a Blue Square South side.

True

Could try improving your fitness training to counter it perhaps, and make sure your pre-season and injury recovery is up to scratch.

SFraser - thanks for posting. Nick McNamara is a central midfielder, by the way.

Taking on board the point you are making, I decided to look through the injury list just for the first team players. there is the following breakdown:

DCs

Ben Martin - 4 weeks, back strain, in training

DR/L

Scott Cousins - 5 weeks, twisted ankle, in match

Adam Everitt - 4 weeks, back strain, in training

James Fisher - 12 days, bruised thigh, in match

Chris Seeby - 6 days, dead leg, in match

MCs

Solomon Shields - 5 weeks and 6 weeks with a pulled hamstring

Chris Seeby - 4 weeks with a twisted knee

Lee Clarke - 3 weeks, thigh strain, in match

Nick McNamara - 3 weeks, thigh strain, in match

Nick McNamara - 3 weeks, calf strain, in match

Jack Plummer - 3 weeks, thigh strain, in match

James Quilter - 3 weeks, twisted knee, in match

MR/L

Danny Green - 4 to 5 weeks with a thigh strain

Ryan Woods - 4 weeks with a thigh strain

Hassan Sulaiman - 1 week, flu, N/A

Ryan Woods - 4 weeks, back strain, in training

Ryan Woods - 12 days, bruised thigh, in match

STs

Gary Cohen - 2 weeks with a damaged heel

Paul Hakim - 2 weeks with a bruised rib

Gary Cohen - 3 weeks, thigh strain, in match

Gary Cohen - 1 week, dead leg, in match

Paul Hakim - 4 weeks, twisted knee, in match

Lee Woodward - 12 days, sprained wrist, in match

Inih Effiong - 6 days, food poisoning, N/A

Lewis Hilton - 3 weeks, calf strain, in match

Simon Martin - 3 weeks, twisted knee, in match

I then decided to tally up the types of injury for each position and also categorise them into 'contact' injuries and 'straining injuries'

DC

Back strain 1

Straining injuries - 1

DR/L

Twisted ankle 1

Back strain 1

Bruised thigh 1

Dead leg 1

Straining injuries - 2

Contact injuries - 2

MCs

Pulled hamstring 1

Twisted knee 2

Thigh strain 3

Calf strain 1

Straining injuries - 7

MR/L

Thigh strain 2

Back strain 1

Bruised thigh 1

Straining injuries - 3

Contact injuries - 1

STs

Damaged heel 1

Bruised rib 1

Thigh strain 1

Dead leg 1

Twisted knee 2

Sprained wrist 1

Calf strain 1

Straining injuries - 5

Contact injuries - 3

TOTAL -

Straining injuries - 18

Contact injuries - 5

I'll come back with some conclusions in just a minute.

How much of a rest are they given after injuries? The more the rest the better in my experience, with a smaller squad is going to be quite a challenge.

Don't play them to early or be to eager after the player has recovered, they'll only get injured again.

Do you MC's do a lot of chasing back after players or do they play box-to-box?

What I found during my check-up of injuries versus playstyle versus injury-proneness in my squad is that contact injuries are governed by the injury-prone attribute whereas strains and pulls and general muscle/joint/ligament damage was governed by something else entireally, which I concluded to be sustained physical effort, as they generally popped up amongst my highly physical players that also had low anticipation and generally low mental attributes.

I found absolutely no correlation between injury-proneness and "strain" type injuries whatsoever. They simply do not arise out of injury-proneness. Where there does seem to be a correlation is between a physical playstyle and low mental ability, as these players end up playing at high physical stress longer than say someone with higher Anticipation.

You will also notice from that list of injuries versus position how they make a lot of sense and have some obvious patterns, considering the activity involved in playing those positions. I wouldn't rule out some bugs or perhaps over-excessive injury rates, but as you can see there is almost certainly an underlying mechanic determing injuries based upon activity and playstyle.

So SFraser, you are obviously right about the high number of straining type injuries. And due to having so many straining injuries, rather than contact ones, it seems hard tackling isn't going to be the issue.

You are playing a game involving a lot of physical exertion such as running at high speed, twisting and turning sharply, and jumping regularly or for long periods of time throughout the match.

I'm playing mostly mixed on the short side passing at a normal tempo.

I expected to have the worst straining injuries in my wide players as I ask them to work really hard and they have very high closing down and obviously make a lot of forward runs, however the most amount of straining injuries is in the middle of the park and in my forward line. This suggests to me that it actually has little to do with my tactics as the instructions for the central players should not be straining them too much. In addition to this, looking through my match stats, the midfield are not really contesting many headers each match, so thus not jumping much, so this description doesn't sound quite right.

I'm not getting many injuries at all in central defence. Why? :confused: My central defenders actually have the highest strength and aerobic training out of all of my training schedules, so can I conclude that my training schedules are not at fault?

So if it isn't training or tactics, what is it? Is it attributes?

The names that occur more than once in my injury list are as follows:

Nick McNamara

Ryan Woods

Gary Cohen

Paul Hakim

Looking through their profiles, I can see that each one of them is agile and fit. They have good attributes for their level. :confused:

So, I'm still very confused.

Can anyone help?

C.

How much of a rest are they given after injuries? The more the rest the better in my experience, with a smaller squad is going to be quite a challenge.

Don't play them to early or be to eager after the player has recovered, they'll only get injured again.

The small squad issue has forced my hand once or twice but, for the most part, I let them recover and then send them to the reserves until match fit. Then I reintroduce them to first team duties.

I also try to keep my player's condition at around 95% when starting a match and certainly no lower than 90% unless I'm absolutely desperate.

Thanks for posting,

C.

I should also add to the above that I know the injury proneness of some of the St. Albans City players due to programming them.

I do not use third party applications so I don't know any values of the players I have signed.

What I can say is that there appears to me to be little correlation between injury proneness and the injuries I am having. Some of the players I know that are injury prone aren't on the list and vice-versa.

If your midfielders keep tearing/straining muscles then look to see if they are using their acceleration/pace alot in a match, perhaps because their Anticipation/Decisions or Positioning is low(er) and so they keep using their acceleration to defend, even if it is only short distances.

Do your players for example accelerate after the opponent and then slide-tackle him or do they anticipate the ball and use their strength to win the ball? I find that the latter results in bruises, bumps and cuts/gashes while the former can sometimes see your guy on the deck with a pulled muscle.

Maybe you could have a look to see exactly what happened when the injury occured? I would be willing to bet that your CM was running or slide tackling rather than steadying himself for a header or using his strength to win the ball.

I should also add to the above that I know the injury proneness of some of the St. Albans City players due to programming them.

I do not use third party applications so I don't know any values of the players I have signed.

What I can say is that there appears to me to be little correlation between injury proneness and the injuries I am having. Some of the players I know that are injury prone aren't on the list and vice-versa.

Yes I saw that too. Contact injuries as based on the injury-prone attribute. Strains have no relation to the injury prone attribute. Compare the contact injuries your players get versus injury prone attribute and you should see a correlation.

If your midfielders keep tearing/straining muscles then look to see if they are using their acceleration/pace alot in a match, perhaps because their Anticipation/Decisions or Positioning is low(er) and so they keep using their acceleration to defend, even if it is only short distances.

[...]

Maybe you could have a look to see exactly what happened when the injury occured? I would be willing to bet that your CM was running or slide tackling rather than steadying himself for a header or using his strength to win the ball.

In my last match, I had two injuries.

The first injury was to a wide player who is out with a thigh strain for 4 to 5 weeks. This is a straining type of injury, however it appears he got this injury through contact with an opponent. This is through both the commentary and what I can see on the match representation. He was running with the ball and 'collided' with his opponent.

The other player who got an injury was a central midfielder. He has a pulled hamstring and will be out for 5 to 6 weeks. He got his injury when jumping to head the ball (unchallenged and in space, I might add).

Both of these occurred in the first half, on 20 something minutes and 30 something minutes. So tiredness wouldn't have been an issue.

Make of those two examples what you will. :confused:

Yes I saw that too. Contact injuries as based on the injury-prone attribute. Strains have no relation to the injury prone attribute. Compare the contact injuries your players get versus injury prone attribute and you should see a correlation.

You might be right about this. At a quick glance down my list, I can see evidence for it.

Regards,

C.

Regardless of the fact that logic is telling me otherwise, I have reduced my training intensity for my various schedules. I'm going to see if that helps at all, although I cannot see why it would.

I'm also going to try less hard tackling OIs for my next few matches.

What happens when you've got serious injuries to your best players? Of course, you have to play the best team in the league in you next match... away...

Jumping to head the ball could cause a strain, I suppose. The first example is slightly baffling- perhaps the player's leg was pulled away by the tackle?

Now I'm going to stick my neck out and say that SI have got what injury proneness affects the wrong way around IMO. Really injury prone players- Rosicky, Little, Dyer, Woodgate- tend to get more strain injuries, and loads of them, when they try to come back from previous strain injuries. On the other hand, impact injuries tend to be "freak"- Eduardo is very rarely injured apparently, but he's spent months out with a broken leg. Generally speaking, when a player who is rarely injured, gets injured, it's a collision injury. Those players who put themselves in situations where they are likely to get many collision injuries- John Terry anyone?- get more, but I don't think Terry gets many strain injuries.

To illustrate my point better, Freddie Flintoff gets loads of injuries, mostly strains, yet he very rarely has a collision. Take another fast bowler, say, James Anderson, and he's rarely injured, despite having a similar amount of chances to strain something.

And I do NOT believe it.

I reduce all training, go easy on the hard tackling OIs, play a team that are all over 95% and...

...Seven minutes in, another injury! This time Luke Thurlbourne, another central midfielder, is injured. I've watched it back again and I'm guessing it is another strain because he just stopped and stood there, off the ball and totally away from any other player.

This just isn't funny anymore. He is my other 'star' player.

(And SCIAG, I agree with you regarding the injury proneness.)

C.

I always get some injuries at the beginning of the season. Might be because I have set training too high to play regular league games. Once I turned them down, I occasionally get a injury. Try lowering them.

Should have said that Thurlbourne had 100% fitness before the game.

I always get some injuries at the beginning of the season. Might be because I have set training too high to play regular league games. Once I turned them down, I occasionally get a injury. Try lowering them.

Thanks for posting. I'm trying that now and will let you know how I get on.

How low do you have them out of interest?

Regards,

C.

My point Crouchaldinho is that if these players were not physically exerting themselves to such a high degree then those injuries would not occur. Rather than a 5 week muscle tear for being tackled while running with the ball, your guy might have got a 5 day dead leg or bruised shin or something if he has just passed the ball.

In order get these strains/pulls/twists/tears or ligament damage which are invariably some of the most regular injuries as well as the most severe, your players need to be regularly dribbling or running or jumping.

The difference between the 5 day dead leg contact injury and the 5 week muscle tear after colliding with the opponent is whether or not your player was exerting himself physically.

Tone down the amount of RWB or Sprinting after through-balls and you will see a reduction in these severe injuries.

You're not going to believe this... but I've had ANOTHER injury in the same match.

Try this then.

Next time you play a match, give every player on the pitch HUB ticked.

My point Crouchaldinho is that if these players were not physically exerting themselves to such a high degree then those injuries would not occur. Rather than a 5 week muscle tear for being tackled while running with the ball, your guy might have got a 5 day dead leg or bruised shin or something if he has just passed the ball.

In order get these strains/pulls/twists/tears or ligament damage which are invariably some of the most regular injuries as well as the most severe, your players need to be regularly dribbling or running or jumping.

The difference between the 5 day dead leg contact injury and the 5 week muscle tear after colliding with the opponent is whether or not your player was exerting himself physically.

Tone down the amount of RWB or Sprinting after through-balls and you will see a reduction in these severe injuries.

I got your point SFraser but it just isn't the case. I've had 7 straining type injuries in the middle of the park this season. My central midfield players are instructed neither to run with the ball nor to make forward runs often.

The players who are running with the ball, closing down heavily and running on to through balls are my wide players, where I have had only 3 straining type injuries.

So it just doesn't add up that it is tactical.

Regards,

C.

Try what I said above with HUB and let me know how you get on.

Try this then.

Next time you play a match, give every player on the pitch HUB ticked.

How is that going to help?

Luke Thurlbourne, the player who I have just lost to injury, has HUB ticked.

Paul Hakim and Gary Cohen had HUB ticked and they've both ended up with a major injury more than once.

Same with Chris Seeby and James Quilter.

I can't see how it is going to help. :confused:

You have just told me that players running and jumping keep pulling muscles which is exactly what I said was going to happen in my first post. Now either you tell your players to stop running and jumping so much or you are going to keep ripping and tearing muscles.

I'm not joking. I actually had a THIRD injury during that game.

This time, a central defender. He injured himself clearing the ball. Totally alone, nobody near him. A straight forward clearance.

Let me guess, a muscle injury?

You have just told me that players running and jumping keep pulling muscles which is exactly what I said was going to happen in my first post. Now either you tell your players to stop running and jumping so much or you are going to keep ripping and tearing muscles.

But they are all fully fit, match fit footballers.

I've just told you that it is my central midfielders who are getting injured the most. They neither run nor jump half as much as my wingers.

In the last game, one guy injured himself just by standing still on his own, one of them injured himself receiving a simple pass under no pressure and another guy injured himself kicking a ball under no pressure.

Two of those players have no forward runs and do not run with the ball at all!

Why do you think it will get sorted by January? :confused:

Because generally the amount of inuries you get reduces furthur into the game.

Well that is unfortunate and sometimes injuries like that occur, but the rest of your injuries are all down to over-exerting the muscles of players on a regular basis, it could not be clearer.

Let me guess, a muscle injury?

Well, it must be, musn't it. Obviously a strain.

Just going to find out the damage now.

The guy who injured himself receiving a simple pass under no pressure is out for 2 to 3 weeks. He has a damaged heel.

The other two appear to just be minor injuries.

This has to be something to do with my training. That's my opinion. I'm seeing nothing to suggest otherwise tactically or in terms of player attributes. Either that or this is simply a bug.

Well that is unfortunate and sometimes injuries like that occur, but the rest of your injuries are all down to over-exerting the muscles of players on a regular basis, it could not be clearer.

I totally agree with you SFraser. But it is not tactical. Most of the players affected are central players without forward runs, without high closing down and without run with the ball instructions.

I think it has to do with training, personally. Obviously I'm pushing them too hard and they are straining their muscles for this reason.

I have taken training down by half a segment on every schedule. Let's see if that helps.

C.

Why is a muscle strain after clearing a ball from defence, a thigh strain after being tackled while running at pace, and a pulled hamstring when jumping for a ball a bug?

Do you not see both the connection and the cure here?

Why is a muscle strain after clearing a ball from defence, a thigh strain after being tackled while running at pace, and a pulled hamstring when jumping for a ball a bug?

Do you not see both the connection and the cure here?

Perhaps it is a bug because it is occurring much too often. I didn't say it was a bug. I also hope it isn't and I'm trying to give this a chance to sort itself out.

Of course I see the connection between the injuries. I'm not sure what the cure is, that's what I'm trying to find out. It seems bloody obvious to me that it isn't because I don't ask all of my players to hold up the ball SFraser!

Obviously, my players are straining their muscles. My hypothesis is that this is because I am training them too hard in strength and aerobics. I have reached this hypothesis because it does not seem to be related to player attributes, nor does it seem to be related to my tactical choices.

I'm trying to bring in a better physio. Funnily enough, I've decided to employ a physio called Fraser. Is that a good sign or a bad one?

C.