Is "Challenge Keeper" Cheating?

Is "Challenge Keeper" Cheating? My opinion yes, but more importantly what is your opinion?

Is "Challenge Keeper" Cheating? My opinion yes, but more importantly what is your opinion?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fatboyjohnmulhern:

Is "Challenge Keeper" Cheating? My opinion yes, but more importantly what is your opinion? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. Its an exploit in the match engine. But its not cheating.

It's technically not cheating, saving and re-loading after a defeat would be cheating. In real life teams can ask a player to challenge the GK on corners. The problem is that the match engine currently can't cope with this effectively.

It's not cheating but for many it takes away from the feeling of success if you know you've achieved it by exploiting a weakness in the match engine.

Yer, i am not sure whether to lose my dignity to chellenge for promotion this season, or to just do it with prride and more than likely fail. I'm gonna say no right now, seeing as i have avoided the temptations for a long time now

OK, another question, Is Challenge Keeper Cheating, therefore, do you use it?

I don't bother with it unless the computer starts to go on one of those 'you will not win for no apparent reason' runs. Then I use it for a few games before stopping it again, lol.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fatboyjohnmulhern:

Yer, i am not sure whether to lose my dignity to chellenge for promotion this season, or to just do it with prride and more than likely fail. I'm gonna say no right now, seeing as i have avoided the temptations for a long time now

OK, another question, Is Challenge Keeper Cheating, therefore, do you use it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do use it, despite it being an exploit. Why? Because its just logical to put a good header to challenge the keeper. I've done it since The CM Days, and I'm not going to stop due to the match engine not being able to cope with it.

What goes around comes around, too. I've conceded a fair few from corners, (Some direct from corners) - And I rarely finish top in the "Goals from corners" department in the division.

i tend not to use it on corners no more as i found it too effective, i was fed up of my centre back ebing my top scorer every year, how often does john terry get 10 hatricks a season?

Just do as the AI appears to do. Set a player to challenge keeper but set the corner taking to mixed rather than 6 yard box. You shouldn't purposely avoid it since it isn't uncommon for the AI to score from a corner cheat/exploit scenario.

Personally, I don't think it's cheating, it's a valid tactic used by most teams IRL. I don't use it, however, as people on these forums have drummed into my head that anything I gain while using this tactic is invalid.

But it's no more cheating than developing a really good tactic that wins 90% of games.

I have a defender set to challenge the 'keeper at corners and I have had defenders into double figures for goals for the season, but never to a ludicrous degree that I feel I should stop doing it just for the sake of it.

If I had defenders scoring 30 goals per season and more like some people are then I'd stop using it, but mine tend to score more like 15 which is not a million miles away from a realistic number for a team who work on corners and have a good taker and header of the ball.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Archy-91:

Personally, I don't think it's cheating, it's a valid tactic used by most teams IRL. I don't use it, however, as people on these forums have drummed into my head that anything I gain while using this tactic is invalid.

But it's no more cheating than developing a really good tactic that wins 90% of games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also, due to the Human favor in game, (and lets be real, the Human Manager always comes out on top eventually) - it's no worse than having a 50 year career with 1 team. You will eventually have unlimited funds, the best stadium and training facilities, the highest rep, and the best players.

I prefer to make my own routine.

It's a challenge to try and create one that gives an influential but realistic amount of goals from corners.

Its fun

i do think it is cheating and i dont use it. people saying "its a real life tactic so i will use it, its not cheating i am jus a good tactician" really are kidding themselves, i think for the sake of a realistic game uyou should just not use it, people may say why would i intentionally not do something that a. i wold do irl and b. is wiining me games, but for the sake of a relistic game it shouldnt be used.

p.s im pretty sure some people who say they do use it are the ones that are demanding SI's heads on plates when they find a flaw working against them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

i do think it is cheating and i dont use it. people saying "its a real life tactic so i will use it, its not cheating i am jus a good tactician" really are kidding themselves, i think for the sake of a realistic game uyou should just not use it, people may say why would i intentionally not do something that a. i wold do irl and b. is wiining me games, but for the sake of a relistic game it shouldnt be used.

p.s im pretty sure some people who say they do use it are the ones that are demanding SI's heads on plates when they find a flaw working against them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the sake of a realistic game, should you then not play the game? As there is little realism with much of the game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

i do think it is cheating and i dont use it. people saying "its a real life tactic so i will use it, its not cheating i am jus a good tactician" really are kidding themselves, i think for the sake of a realistic game uyou should just not use it, people may say why would i intentionally not do something that a. i wold do irl and b. is wiining me games, but for the sake of a relistic game it shouldnt be used.

p.s im pretty sure some people who say they do use it are the ones that are demanding SI's heads on plates when they find a flaw working against them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the sake of a realistic game, should you then not play the game? As there is little realism with much of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What he said. is it really realistic that teams such as Wigan etc (i have nothing against them by the way - just first team i remember seeing) regularly getting into the Champions league, when an AI team? let's face it - it's very unlikely to happen.

i have used it in the past, but try not to where possible. it's not cheating as such - it just depends how you want to play. it's up to the individual, and not the gang of FM haters that lurk in the midst.....

im talking about making the game as realistic as possile because that what makes it fun for me, and a tactic which makes me score so easily and not because i have signed decent players or designed my own tactic but because i used a known exploit to make a CB score an excessive ammount of gaols. to me its just not worth doing, but im not sying stop, its your own game, you payed your x ammount of money just as i did and deserve to do as you like.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

im talking about making the game as realistic as possile because that what makes it fun for me, and a tactic which makes me score so easily and not because i have signed decent players or designed my own tactic but because i used a known exploit to make a CB score an excessive ammount of gaols. to me its just not worth doing, but im not sying stop, its your own game, you payed your x ammount of money just as i did and deserve to do as you like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't mean this in the wrong way, but people who deliberately DON'T do something to make the game "more realistic" bug me. If you want realism, go out and do your coaching badges. Its unrealistic in the first place that you get to become a Football Manager. So the line has already been drawn in those terms. And unless your game maps the future of how the teams will finish in the league, as soon as you hit that continue button, you've delved into a realm of unrealism.

So that fact your taking something realistic out of an unrealistic game, in an attempt to make it more realistic, baffles me.

It's your choice. If you consider a weakness in the programming to be "part of the game" I guess it isn't cheating. You DO lose all bragging rights about your success, though - same as on previous releases where if you manmarked the keeper you could score 150 goals a season.

I feel like it makes the game too easy, so don't use it. But you pays the money, so you plays it how you likes it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

It's your choice. If you consider a weakness in the programming to be "part of the game" I guess it isn't cheating. You DO lose all bragging rights about your success, though - same as on previous releases where if you manmarked the keeper you could score 150 goals a season.

I feel like it makes the game too easy, so don't use it. But you pays the money, so you plays it how you likes it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So in relative terms, Man U have Ronaldo, who exposes weaknesses in the oppositions defense. Does this mean they lose all bragging rights about winning the prem? and possibly the CL?

I'm sure, everyone has found a weakness in the programming at some stage or another. Maybe not so obvious as the Corner Tactic, but does this mean you also don't use Farrows for AMC? Again, I'm sure you are doing things to beat the engine without realizing it, but thats ok, right? because its not common knowledge.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

im talking about making the game as realistic as possile because that what makes it fun for me, and a tactic which makes me score so easily and not because i have signed decent players or designed my own tactic but because i used a known exploit to make a CB score an excessive ammount of gaols. to me its just not worth doing, but im not sying stop, its your own game, you payed your x ammount of money just as i did and deserve to do as you like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't mean this in the wrong way, but people who deliberately DON'T do something to make the game "more realistic" bug me. If you want realism, go out and do your coaching badges. Its unrealistic in the first place that you get to become a Football Manager. So the line has already been drawn in those terms. And unless your game maps the future of how the teams will finish in the league, as soon as you hit that continue button, you've delved into a realm of unrealism.

So that fact your taking something realistic out of an unrealistic game, in an attempt to make it more realistic, baffles me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok, take out any arguement of it being realistic. what im saying is it makes it a lot less fun for me to use a known exploit. the same reason i dont use cheats in gta, its not becuase it makes it less realistic, after all im running round a city killing people and only getting a night in the cells if i get caught. its just i dont get the same enjoyment out of the game.

I keep corners mixed, one guy near post and one guy challenging keeper, I've always done it. I always will.

"Realism" is subjective anyway. Some teams in real life work very hard on set pieces so score more than other teams. You can't really measure that in FM because all you have is a Set pieces training module which is nothing really related to how much your team practices set pieces so who can say how many corners is realistic? Clearly a centre-back scoring 50 goals in a season is not realistic in any remotest sense of the word, but if people enjoy that fair enough.

I tend to find my teams only score corners against lesser teams anyway so we still come a cropper whenever we play big clubs ("big" as in club stature that is, not as in all 7ft players!).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

im talking about making the game as realistic as possile because that what makes it fun for me, and a tactic which makes me score so easily and not because i have signed decent players or designed my own tactic but because i used a known exploit to make a CB score an excessive ammount of gaols. to me its just not worth doing, but im not sying stop, its your own game, you payed your x ammount of money just as i did and deserve to do as you like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't mean this in the wrong way, but people who deliberately DON'T do something to make the game "more realistic" bug me. If you want realism, go out and do your coaching badges. Its unrealistic in the first place that you get to become a Football Manager. So the line has already been drawn in those terms. And unless your game maps the future of how the teams will finish in the league, as soon as you hit that continue button, you've delved into a realm of unrealism.

So that fact your taking something realistic out of an unrealistic game, in an attempt to make it more realistic, baffles me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok, take out any arguement of it being realistic. what im saying is it makes it a lot less fun for me to use a known exploit. the same reason i dont use cheats in gta, its not becuase it makes it less realistic, after all im running round a city killing people and only getting a night in the cells if i get caught. its just i dont get the same enjoyment out of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats a fair point.

I also don't use cheats in GTA, or any other game, just like I don't in FM.

Despite the fact that I do use the corner tactic, It rarely works - And my bloke who heads the goals from corners only has 6 goals this season, and we're nearing the end of it. So hardly effective.

I have my corners set up so that my centre halve is set to challange GK and the corners are played into the 6 yard area, however:

a) I have been doing this for years

b) I don't think it is that effective, the most I have ever seen a player score from corners was Gallas who scored 11 goals. Not an unrealistic amount considering IRL John Terry scored 10+ goals a few seasons ago for Chelski.

C) If it is exploiting the match engine then there must be alot more than this so called "corner bug". For example, play Ronaldo wide left/right with an arrow to the ST position with Through balls often, Run with Ball often and Forward Run often and I find he gets 40+ goals a season............... Oh thats right he already has 41 goals IRL.

D) Does the AI exploit situations that your team find themselves in. If you have been playing amazingly winning game after game and then suddnley you get a 0-0 against inferior opposition because their keeper played a 10 and then go 6 or 7 games without a win even though you absoloutly murder teams. This scenario has popped up on more than one version of this game and is something I find very annoying and unrealstic.

E) The amount of one on ones missed is extremley high, so maybe the "corner bug" makes up for it?

IMO its cheating if you purposly do it knowing that it is an exploit but I guess if you find it accidently then its not cheating.

Oh and cheats on GTA are what makes the game. Obviously not on the missions etc but spawning cars, riot mode, fantastic fun.

I've not actually heard of this.

So at corners, take to 6 yard box with a CB set to 'Challenge Keeper' yes?

Will try it for a few games and see if it makes a difference.

Which patch is this, or is it all?

BTW i wasnt really blindly backing "be as realistic as possible" if that was the case i would be a LLM, fair play to them but thats taking the game a little bit too serious, i just play the game how i like, on the odd occasion i will do stupid things, add 1billion to cambridge to see how long it takes for me to get to the top, make a team ect. just this isnt one of those fun things to do imo.

sorry if it seemed i was arguing, hard to get out how you are saying things on the internet.

It is 8.0.2 again though see my post above for my thoughts. It seems it works amazing for some people who can get their DC scoring 25+ a season or like me where the DC will average around 8 a season.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

BTW i wasnt really blindly backing "be as realistic as possible" if that was the case i would be a LLM, fair play to them but thats taking the game a little bit too serious, i just play the game how i like, on the odd occasion i will do stupid things, add 1billion to cambridge to see how long it takes for me to get to the top, make a team ect. just this isnt one of those fun things to do imo.

sorry if it seemed i was arguing, hard to get out how you are saying things on the internet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No arguments mate. Debating. And in the manner a debate should take place. There were no obscenities thrown between us, and no stubbornness, just a plain old debate, with us both putting our views across.

Odd, for this site.

Its not cheating any more than a successful tactic is cheating. Both just exploit weaknesses in the match engine. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly deluded.

After reading this "debate", i have come to the conclussion on what should be done about this "expliot".

1)Challenge keeper is alloweed, only with mixed corners

If you're using a player who is chipping in with an unreasonable number of goals (probably 10+ for a CB) then it is. The fact is that the seting should really just lead to a disruption in the box and give other players more chance of scoring, so if the guy challenging the keeper keeps scoring, it's not quite right.

All that said, up to the individual how they want to play.

One possible solution that i suggested in the Graphics and skinning forum was to somehow create a version/adjustment of the skin that had the 'challenge keeper' button removed, for those who didn't want to be tempted to use it. The "bugged" code would thus still be there but it couldnt be accessed, assuming you just used your own tactics and not anyone elses.

Apparently though it isnt possible

One possible solution that i suggested in the Graphics and skinning forum was to somehow create a version/adjustment of the skin that had the 'challenge keeper' button removed, for those who didn't want to be tempted to use it. The "bugged" code would thus still be there but it couldnt be accessed, assuming you just used your own tactics and not anyone elses.

Apparently though it isnt possible

I'm winning titles and cups hand over fist with Spurs. I have Micah Richards as my top scorer season after season, all his goals coming from 'challenge the goalkeeper' on corners.

If that isn't realistic, I don't know what is. If you don't like the terms 'cheat' or 'exploit', up to you; I'm just saying that regardless of the quality of my players and tactics, I wouldn't have a single trophy if it wasn't for that ONE Match Engine advantage.

I don't think it's cheating.

Unfortunately, we can't have it both ways. When the AI finds a hole in our tactics, people just shrug their shoulders and accept that it's part of the game. By and large, when you're tactic is "cracked" it stays cracked and you have to adjust, sometimes to no avail and total tactic overhauls are required (not in all cases).

Now, we as the user finds a hole in the AI tactic and it's suddenly described as cheating!

Sorry, not buying this one for a dollar!

Last night I got home from work and spoke phoned a friend (yes I do have friends). After talking at length about the forthcoming Champions League Final the subject finally got onto FM 2008. I asked him what his thoughts on the "Corner Bug" was. This is the jist of his take on it:

"I can't see how it is cheating. Surely if you never visit the FM Forums (which he has never ever done) and your not very clued up about such things as bugs, and you stumble across a successful corner tactic then it is exactly the same as having an overall winning tactic that you use know matter who you are playing or where you are playing. IRL no football team uses the exact same tactic each week. When Man United (his team) played Barcelona, Evra was given the freedom to get forward as much as possible in the hope that it would cause Messi to track back and exploit the two on one against the full back if he didn't. But that was a specific tactic employed by the manager to combat the threat of Messi and would not generally be used against other clubs or players in fact earlier in the season it when United played Arsenal Evra rarley ventured forward whilst Eboue was on the field, Wenger subbed Eboue for Walcott and that is when Evra screamed forward and set up a goal for Rooney in the 2-2 draw at the Emriates. The point being many people who play FM find a winning tactic and stick with it. There is even a statistic for it (Tactical Consistancy). The facts are you don't score from every corner just like your successful tactic does not win you every game. Is it cheating......No."

Like I said thats pretty much the jist of his take on this subject and I have to say I couldn't agree more.

if your happy with a cb easily scroing 30 goals plus in a season when most world class strikers struggle to id this then it is up to you.

I think that it is important to distinguish between challenge keeper and the corner tactic. i dont employ the corner tactic, but i do have my cbs challening keeper/attacking near post. this means they score like john terry did a few seasons back, but not getting 30 odd goals a season

challenging the keeper as you would IRL and getting about 9 -10 goals from it, perfectly reasonable, the opposition should be defending better.

reading on the forum how to perfectly set up the corner, where to send the ball, who to put where and the the CB getting an obcene amount of goals. cheating, IMO.

turn it upto 11, what happens if you didn't read it on the forums and just created yourself. Like I said previously I have been using a rough variation of this "cheat" for many years now. Also are you cheating if you constantly win the vast majority of your games with a super tactic you created. In FM 05 my 4132 formation was almost unplayable. In FM 06 it was 4312 (also the year I had CD challange GK and CD attack Far Post which got both my CD scoring an average of around 10 a season). In FM 07 my friend previously mentioned created a 4312 formation with the Attk Mid playing wide left, it was unstoppable.

I will agree with one aspect, it is cheating if you activley look on these forums of exactly how to set it up. But no more than going into the Tactics and Training Forum and downloading somebody else's tactic/training schedule or going on the Players Guide Forum to find out who all the wonderkids are.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

It's your choice. If you consider a weakness in the programming to be "part of the game" I guess it isn't cheating. You DO lose all bragging rights about your success, though - same as on previous releases where if you manmarked the keeper you could score 150 goals a season.

I feel like it makes the game too easy, so don't use it. But you pays the money, so you plays it how you likes it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So in relative terms, Man U have Ronaldo, who exposes weaknesses in the oppositions defense. Does this mean they lose all bragging rights about winning the prem? and possibly the CL?

I'm sure, everyone has found a weakness in the programming at some stage or another. Maybe not so obvious as the Corner Tactic, but does this mean you also don't use Farrows for AMC? Again, I'm sure you are doing things to beat the engine without realizing it, but thats ok, right? because its not common knowledge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but the Ronaldo thing is based on his skill and doesn't guarantee goals - plenty of people on here complain about the game being "too hard" even with teams like Man U.

Similarly, the AMC farrow doesn't guarantee goals goals goals.

I'd say, generally, anything that knowingly exploits a programming weakness is cheating and if *I* do it I get less enjoyment from the game.

It may be in keeping with the programming but hardly in the spirit of the game.

And I don't think there's much the AI can do on the pitch that can't be countered with a bit of thought. I've managed to win plenty of titles, and countless cups without resorting to such things, so it IS possible.

But hey, like I said, you pay the money, you play it how you like. I know a lot of gamers get pleasure just from seeing their little home team make it to the pinacle of European glory, and if they need to exploit these weaknesses to do it - providing they still enjoy the game - then go for it. It's no skin off my nose.

But it's not as impressive as playing without the guarantee of a tactic that gets you 40+ goals a season.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Unfortunately, we can't have it both ways. When the AI finds a hole in our tactics, people just shrug their shoulders and accept that it's part of the game. By and large, when you're tactic is "cracked" it stays cracked and you have to adjust, sometimes to no avail and total tactic overhauls are required (not in all cases). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The AI doesn't exploit a hole in your tactic. It finds a way to counter it, just like it's a piece of the proverbial to counter the 4-2-4 "super"-tactic. Exactly the way a team playing the same tactic week-in week-out in the Prem could have theirs broken by a mediocre team. BUT a couple of weeks later it's easy enough to go back to you original tactic. I get through season using 3 main tactics, which I tweak depending on how the games are going.

It's largely accepted because it's largely a good feature IMO. After all, who wants to play the same winning tactics every game?

I tried using this cheat (just to try it out - as my Liverpool team are already doing very well)and instead of my best header, i put my forward with 15 heading to challenge the keeper and I have noticed only a few more goals going in. Certainly not the same amount as other people are experiencing though.

i would not consider this a cheat tactic though - it is just a weekness in the opposition and you would expect the likes of Fergie etc to capitalise on this in real life as well.

The guy I have challenging the keeper has scored no more than 3-4 goals in 2 seasons so I don't consider it cheating

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von Muff:

The guy I have challenging the keeper has scored no more than 3-4 goals in 2 seasons so I don't consider it cheating </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are other things you have to do to make it a dead-cert, which I think is what's being debated. At least it's what I'm debating.

I have a player attacking near post who gets around 10 per season, but again it's not guaranteed. I also have a CB attacking from deep who gets me maybe 5, and someone stood on the far post who poaches a few too, so I'd say I have a good mix of goals from a range players without resorting to the exploit.

Perhaps if I had problems in that area I'd be more inlcined to re-arrange them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But it's not as impressive as playing without the guarantee of a tactic that gets you 40+ goals a season. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not going to argue the fact that some people have found that there CD scoring between 25 and 40 goals a season using this, however I do and I can safely say I do not find this to be the case. Gallas on my Arsenal game has scored 11 goals in his best season and has averaged around 8 a year. I have never actively looked up this corner tactic but I can't deny I have never heard of it (I visit these forums way to much during works time) so what I'm trying to get at is how i is effective for some people, but not for me. If however, I didn't play it and I never or rarley scored is that a bug in favour of the AI that says the only way to score from a corner is a "corner cheat". Forget cheating and bugs for just a moment and ask yourself these:-

At the start of the season how many goals would you expect to score from set pieces?

I would say a reasonable amount in top flight football would be around a goal a game from ALL set pieces. For lower leagues I think maybe a little more.

When sending players forward for corners who is most likely to score?

Well since the ball is mostly played in high I would expect my best header/jumper to score the most, therefore my CD.

Does it make sense to have your best headers of the ball in the box?

Of course it does, see above.

Does it make sense to have your strongest most aggressive and intimidating player trying to put the oppostions GK?

Yes since the GK is the only player who can legally use his hands to punch or catch he should still have a slight advantage against the player anyway.

Do you have your best free kick takers taking your free kicks?

Yes, there is no point having player X with ability Y and not using it to its maximum potential to get your desired outcome.

Like its already been said, if you put your mind to it then the game can be exploited in many ways because unfortunatly it is a game and games are made to be beaten/completed, it just take a little creative forward thinking.

Hopefully my final say on it now. Is it cheating? Yes, but only if you have gone out of your way to look up exactly how it is done. If not I congratulate you on your tactical genius.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phnompenhandy:

I wouldn't have a single trophy if it wasn't for the ONE match engine advantage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can you be so sure? You don't know the outcomes of the games, without the exploit, so how can you stand there and whole heartedly claim something that you couldn't possibly know?

WILL THIS CONTROVERSY EVER END!!!