Plea to SI to produce a new game like the old CM3 series

Okay sorry if something similar has been mentioned before and if people don't think its necesarry to open this post- I'll try and be brief.

Firstly the FM series is superb, the detail is amazing and the number of features and the way the game has developed from when I started this game as a 10 year old with CM 96/97 is brilliant.

I have the FM09 series, its a good game, but in all this time I've had it, I've only gone past season 1 once, when I had five years as Spurs manager. A couple of weeks back I came upon www.champman0102.co.uk, so I felt like trying CM01/02 again with a 08/09 season update- and it was amazing. It just reminded that although I enjoy FM, alot of it seemed like a time consuming chore. CM0102 seemed so fun to play, it gave me the enjoyment I used to have in the SI series.

Why did I prefer CM0102? Alot of people will note the speed, its super quick, you can whizz through games quickly and have long files, with multiple leagues running, with no problem. But its not just the speed! Its the fact that it has limited features, but ones that I enjoy, so every minute is spent doing something I enjoy on CM. The wheeling and dealing in the transfer market, having long files, finding great youngsters etc. No offence, but for me the regen system from so long ago for me is STILL more effective than the newgen system that SI have been trying to develop for years- in my humble opinion, because 7/8 years into a file, there are top youngsters established in all the teams- whereas in FM, its still the same oldies, I've had FM 05/06/08/09 and I've found this in everygame, its a bit annoying after all these years! (I haven't played alot of FM09 so don't shoot me down for not being fully accurate on this assesment!)

It doesn't consume all your time, I really don't care about the minute details of tactics, or developing players, manager interaction etc- and I don't have to worry about it in CM. It's a fun, quick game, without the layers and layers of features, which have turned the CM/FM series from a fun but realistic game, into a very realistic, but time consuming and sometimes boring game, which feels like a chore- to get to the more joyous parts- which don't get me wrong, still exist.

Anyway what this whole thing is about is, to ask SI to please, of course carry on producing FM with its great features, 3D pitch etc, theres obviously a huge fan base for it, but for us older fans- who have less time, who really love more simplified games, who STILL after all these years play CM0102, to produce a game like the good old days. Now maybe I'm being a bit naive, but I don't think it would be to hard to produce a game simultaneous to the next FM's, but just with all the features like mind games, extra detailed training and player development, in depth tactics, 3D/2D engine, etc taken out. It would bring great joy to many! Perhaps when installing the game, there could be an option to install which features you want, I don't know.

CM0102 with the champman0102 updates is great, but I can't help thinking that a modern day game, produced with CM3 in mind, would be absolutely immense.

Thank you.

SI can't really afford to take such huge steps backwards. They need to improve, not downgrade.

That is just my view though, everyone will be different.

Good post, reasonably put- however it wont happen for all the reasons you know in your heart already. CM-FM is a progression and for commercial reasons has to keep going forward so any backward glance, however it is wanted by some players, is not a practical proposition.

I am generally very fond of customizing options. Un-ticking a few options before creating a savegame might be a possible way to change the game in its appearance and speed for some users. Yet, I'm not a programmer and so I don't know if that is a lot of work and which onward effects that may have which I don't even think about.

I feel SI do realize after so many prominent, sensible and grown-up community members have voiced their concerns about the feel of the game, which in the end is what you are also referring to. I guess it will be one of SI's main challenges in the making of FM10 to try and reintroduce that pick-up-and-play feeling to some extent at least. But that's a massive task, we should be aware of that.

Maybe those options are a viable way. I don't know.

Whizzing through games is lame, and completely defeats the point of a Football Management simulator. CM was good but FM takes it a different level in terms of immersion.

Whizzing through games is lame, and completely defeats the point of a Football Management simulator. CM was good but FM takes it a different level in terms of immersion.

I never said it doesn't. But you have to realise that when people play games, different things appeal to them. If I was a kid again with all the time in the world, I would love to play FM, but I don't have the time.

Look at the following champman0102 has, theres got to be something there, that people still play the game.

The only thing I don't like is the amount of memory it uses.

Here's my opinion on this:

I loved CM 01/02, i love FM09.

I don't love many of the features in FM09, however i accept that things must move forward, and that no one would buy the game each year if it didn't have new features and it just had database updates, because these are available for free in many places on the internet.

Again, i do agree that there are some features that aren't exactly worthwhile, such as the Press Conference. However the game is called "Football Manager", not "Kind of like being a Football Manager, but we take stuff away that a few people might not like". They are always striving to make the game more realistic, and i expect them to add more features that i won't use in FM10. Will i like it? No. Will it make the game more realistic? Hell yes!

In summary, i hope you see my point, i agree with you in some parts, but i salute SI for wanting to make the game ever more realistic, and not wanting to make a big backwards step to when, yes, the game was more fun, but lacked the richness that i believe can be found within FM09.

They've already done what you've asked, and it's called FM09 for the PSP

They've already done what you've asked, and it's called FM09 for the PSP

Skill on multiple levels. I see what you did there.

However ports beyond the PC make me uncomfortable

Just to note, I never in no way said that SI should stop developing FM and making it bigger and better with more features.

It's about time for SI release to 3 FM versions:

1) CM01/02 style (using just CM01/02 features)

2) New FM

3) Super easy mode with CM01/02 style, all matches = win, buying Ronaldo for $1, 10 mins = 1 season, etc...

And it's about time for SI to stop adding new features, just add the no of leagues and fix the major issues...

It sounds like you just want to play 01/02 to be honest. All they could really do with it is make it look better.

Football Manager Handheld is much more 'pick up and play', so if you have a PSP then it's worth checking out if that's the type of gaming experience you want.

Logic fault here - you said you've only ever been past season 1 in FM09 once, and at that time, only went to 5 seasons (hardly the 'longest ever' game). How do you know that the regen system in FM09 is bad? 5 years is not that long given that any player under the age of 28 can still be playing at the top level, hence why teams will retain the 'old pros'. I suggest you play to 10 years in order to see real progression.

That said, the regen system does need work. Still, I don't remember older versions of CM being that much better in regards to the regens. One of the problems I seem to remember from CM 00/01 (my favourite version of the game, incidently) was that older players had a very, very slow degregation of stats meaning that you could continue to play them in your first team at the highest level literally until they retired.

In FM I have only ever had a handful of my starting players retire from the game while with my team, they usually move on to lower-level football because I stop playing them in the first team as regularly once they hit 31-32 and their physical stats start to go. In those older CM games, I could keep the same team and play them until they all retired. Heck, in my long-running Reading game on 00/01, when Reading is still in the old division 2, I won my first EPL title with Phil Parkinson still in the DM position despite him being vastly underwhelming for the league and being way over the hill. That, to me, while lots of fun to honour the old war-horse, was not very realistic.

Fair points, I can fully see why most people aren't going to agree with me and you all make valid points. (Also being in an FM forum means most people will like the game alot!).

Fair enough I haven't gone 10 seasons into a game- I seem to remember one thread stating that it was still a problem- I may be incorrect. I certainly found this in FM08 and FM06, where I did go quite far.

Neil- Perhaps I should give it a try, I had the first FM on a PSP, but didn't really get into it.

You know what in hindsight I am being too harsh on the game, because there were times on FM05 06 and 08 where I was really into the game and fully enjoying it. I just haven't got into FM09 properly and I just enjoyed playing CM0102 a hell of a lot when I tried it again.

Nothing to apologise about mate, I think CM 00/01 and 01/02 are probably two of the best versions of the game that SI have every produced. I had plenty of fun on 00/01 that still provide me with good memories. I'm sure if I went back to it, I'd still find it plenty of fun, particularly from a pick-up-and-play perspective (tactics back then are uber-simple)

They've already done what you've asked, and it's called FM09 for the PSP

Some people may not have, cannot afford, nor want a PSP. It shouldn't mean they can't experience an 'old-school' version of FM.

There is definitely a void in the market for such a (PC!) game. Maybe the other CM mob might come up with something along those lines.

I completely agree with the OP. I noramaly play CM 01/02 with the 08/09 (that www.champman0102.com website is awesome with a great community) update as it's a very quick enjoyable experience and like the OP said FM can feel like a chore with tedious sliders and tactic system which is difficult to understand until you've played the game alot.

I'm playing FM2009 now becuase I'm signed off work sick, so I've got more time to enjoy the game (I've done 5 seasons in 3 weeks and liking it alot). When i get back from work normally, the last thing I want to do is trundle slowly through what in my eyes is a overly complicated game, so I stick to CM.

Unfortunatly I think the FM series has lost the pick and play charm forever. Eventually my FM days will come to an end when I eventually grow tired of CM and then can't be bothered with the newer enevitably more complicated versions of FM.

I'm still waiting for this game dammit!!

It depends on how you play fm, i leave friendy, media, teamtalk, opposition instruction, reserve/youth to staff members. Also after I set a tactic I barely change it.

So most time I only need to do the following:

training

contract and transfer

squad selection

request things from board

squad management

It's not very time consuming and you can leave training to default as well.

Just because a feature exists doesnt mean you have to use it.

i wouldnt waterdown fm for myself. im a seasoned player and like the fact we have plenty of features and there is much more to the game than just playing matches. but there would be no harm in doing a lighter version for newbies or casual gamers. fm is very hard to get used to if you havent played it before.

I thought FM handheld kinda covered this no?

i mean for the pc though milner. if people bought a lighter version and liked it they would often soon go and buy the full game.

yeah i guess it would be nice if they could release something similar for the PC. Ive not actually tried the handheld version, does anyone know if its any good at all?

I'm one of those players who would prefer a more streamlined game. Something like FM2007 but with a bit of polish - like the ability to get assistant reports on your player's ability and potential in star form like the modern FM's get.

Fact is, it would only happen if there was a commercial reason to make it. SI are a company after all and there's nothing wrong with that. In my opinion it does make good business sense to at least consider this "FM lite" idea. First of all, as mentioned above, you have all those people over at champman0102.com who would almost certainly be interested. More importantly though I think is the effect an "FM lite" would have in attracting new players to the world of FM. Personally, I got into FM whilst a young teenager, getting into CM 95/96 then eagerly awaiting CM3 and going from there. How many young people do you think are going to pick up and get into FM as it stands? It's way too much work, it'd just get cast aside after a few frustrated hours of play. So where are the future customers going to come from when all the rest of us are gone? An "FM lite" would provide a simple, addictive stepping stone for new players to get into FM and ensure a solid customer base for years to come.

Anyway thats my 2p

EDIT: Also just wanted to say to those of you who like to steam into these threads and decry all of us who support this idea of a simpler FM as being "win button" seekers (:rolleys:) and all of that, some people don't have hours to throw away on a computer game, some people don't enjoy going into meticulous detail over everything, it's not a threat to FM as it stands, so stop being so defensive about it!

I fail to see the problems portrayed in these posts as time consuming.

If you want to go through seasons in a quick manor you can easily make your assistant do most of the work like training, press and squad management. Also you can turn up the speed and have only commentary turned on when matches are played. This way there won't be that big a difference in time spent playing the newest FM edition or an older CM edition.

What is correct, though, is how the AI often fail to get the best out of youth players. The CM editions were way better in this. And that actually made the CM editions more challenging in the long run.

I'd quite like to see FMH made avaiable to play on a PC.

I'm sure there is a reason why it isn't but I can't help but think it would be quite popular with some people.

I fail to see the problems portrayed in these posts as time consuming.

If you want to go through seasons in a quick manor you can easily make your assistant do most of the work like training, press and squad management. Also you can turn up the speed and have only commentary turned on when matches are played. This way there won't be that big a difference in time spent playing the newest FM edition or an older CM edition.

The problem with this is that there is either a advantage to be gained from manually doing training etc or there isn't. If there is an advantage, then the people who let their assistant do all that stuff because they find it tedious are going to struggle in the game. If there is no advantage to manually doing training etc, then the people who like to do that are being cheated as they could do just as well by leaving the ass. man to do it.

What is correct, though, is how the AI often fail to get the best out of youth players. The CM editions were way better in this. And that actually made the CM editions more challenging in the long run.

This is true. On my current FM07 game its too easy for me to just hoover up all the best youth players.

The problem with this is that there is either a advantage to be gained from manually doing training etc or there isn't. If there is an advantage, then the people who let their assistant do all that stuff because they find it tedious are going to struggle in the game. If there is no advantage to manually doing training etc, then the people who like to do that are being cheated as they could do just as well by leaving the ass. man to do it.

Well, off course there will always be an advantage for those who pay more attention to details. No team are the same and require a different approach. But I don't see the advantage being a 'do or die'. I like to make my own training schedules so I can't say I've made any tests on that matter. But when I compare my training schedules to the ones given by the game there's not that big a difference (and I'm fully satisfied with my training schedules). Where the big difference lies is in getting the best coaches and give (youth) players 1st team experience. And that's where the AI fails.

i never touched training in any FM up till about 3 weeks ago, and i have never struggled.

I'm one of those players who would prefer a more streamlined game. Something like FM2007 but with a bit of polish - like the ability to get assistant reports on your player's ability and potential in star form like the modern FM's get.

Fact is, it would only happen if there was a commercial reason to make it. SI are a company after all and there's nothing wrong with that. In my opinion it does make good business sense to at least consider this "FM lite" idea. First of all, as mentioned above, you have all those people over at champman0102.com who would almost certainly be interested. More importantly though I think is the effect an "FM lite" would have in attracting new players to the world of FM. Personally, I got into FM whilst a young teenager, getting into CM 95/96 then eagerly awaiting CM3 and going from there. How many young people do you think are going to pick up and get into FM as it stands? It's way too much work, it'd just get cast aside after a few frustrated hours of play. So where are the future customers going to come from when all the rest of us are gone? An "FM lite" would provide a simple, addictive stepping stone for new players to get into FM and ensure a solid customer base for years to come.

Anyway thats my 2p

EDIT: Also just wanted to say to those of you who like to steam into these threads and decry all of us who support this idea of a simpler FM as being "win button" seekers (:rolleys:) and all of that, some people don't have hours to throw away on a computer game, some people don't enjoy going into meticulous detail over everything, it's not a threat to FM as it stands, so stop being so defensive about it!

agree with every word of this. like i said in my post a lite edition would appeal to newcomers and casual gamers. some of them would eventually turn to the full version of the game when they got the hang of it instead of being frustrated with the 100s of things you can click on at current.

agree with every word of this. like i said in my post a lite edition would appeal to newcomers and casual gamers. some of them would eventually turn to the full version of the game when they got the hang of it instead of being frustrated with the 100s of things you can click on at current.

But you have the opportunity to let the ass man do a lot of the work/chores and that would make it a lite edition. The lite edition is already implemented. Or have I misunderstood something?

But you have the opportunity to let the ass man do a lot of the work/chores and that would make it a lite edition. The lite edition is already implemented. Or have I misunderstood something?

You missed something, actually. If you let everything to the ass man, you won't do as well as you would if you took care of all those details (press, team talk, private chats etc. etc.). In other words, you're "punished" for playing a lite version, i.e. leaving details to assistant.

not always, if you have an assistant manager with good man management skills you dont need to worry. Private chats can be helpful but ignoring them will not really hurt anything you do in the long run, training can be ignored, you can turn off heaps of the news messages if you dont want them. All of these features play a part in the bigger pictures, but not everyone is vital to being successful.

Yep, I agree with milnerpoint.

If you pay more attention to details you can have a little advantage. But you can also screw it up a bit. So if you know every aspect of FM11 then paying a lot of attention to every detail will give you an advantage. But then again if you know every aspect of FM11 you don't need to pay a lot of attention to every detail to be successful.

not always, if you have an assistant manager with good man management skills you dont need to worry.

Exactly, but if you're a small(ish) club, you can only dream about such an assistant.

Exactly, but if you're a small(ish) club, you can only dream about such an assistant.

If you want to play a game like that tho it is very easy to set up, if you have FMRTE it takes less than 30 seconds.

If you want to play a game like that tho it is very easy to set up, if you have FMRTE it takes less than 30 seconds.

But then that's cheating, which takes away what little fun is left.

Exactly, but if you're a small(ish) club, you can only dream about such an assistant.

That's true. But it really doesn't matter much. I've played a season in the BSN got promoted and in a cup final. Can't remember which and whether I won. But my assistant took care of all press and I neglected private chats. Team talks take no longer than 5 seconds.

The important part was to create a tactic that suits players at that level and get a bunch of new players on free. And that's how it has always been.

My assistant does practically everything he can. All I do is buy players and select the team, he handles everything else.

Doesn't matter what level of assistant I have*, I still get success

*the exception being Steffen Freund for some reason. He was so bad I had to actually terminate his contract after 6 months.

What little fun? Anyway changing two attributes of your assistant manager is not really going to give you any real advantage in any real way. Any effect felt because of a press conference and/or team talk can be easily countered with tactics both for and against your advantage. If you dont want to do the interactions you take away your need for them and then surely you can have more fun not having to worry about them?

My assistant does practically everything he can. All I do is buy players and select the team, he handles everything else.

Doesn't matter what level of assistant I have*, I still get success

*the exception being Steffen Freund for some reason. He was so bad I had to actually terminate his contract after 6 months.

Are you on a part time contract?

Meh, it's the only way I can enjoy the game these days. It's just too slow for me if I don't.

I know what you mean. I cut quite a few corners myself.

The reason I'm following FM is likely what SI have been aiming for all along: to make the most comprehensive (whilst still accessible to bedroom coaches) management game technology allowed to at any given point. That is what is making FM unique. If I wanted something else, I'd look for another manager game, of which there are quite a few (particularly online). CM3 is already being made, so why redo that? Most of the additional features in recent years are rigged towards players who don't want to do them themselves anyways - and contrary to the anger occasionally vented at a perceived loss that we are being told was all down to those features, they have also been gradually toned down in effect on top of being wholly optional to boot.

wow, I completely agree with the O.P. CM just had ''it''.

FM imo, whilst comfortably being the best around, doesn't.

cue lilac speech bubble...

I think i'd better go now before i say something i'll regret.

rofl.

Must be something wrong with your PC cause FM11 is uber quick.

also of course CM0102 is quick on a modern pc.