its all about the CA over stats.. Player named

In my first season at Forest i managed to get Earnshaw to score 20 goals in 25 games, how ever in my second season he hasnt played well or hit the net once, i have tried offering him out for free and not one single team has been intrested world wide which i find odd..

At the same time Blackburn that got relegated and was flying in the Championship signed two of my players one of which was a striker and played like pants and the other a left back that always played under preasure and made mistakes, all though the fee's where minimal i still managed to get them out..

Looking into this using the FMRTE editor i simply increased Earnshaws CA and PA to 150 and then offerd him out for 500k a host of clubs came in for him including Blackburn, so i reloaded and increased his CA and PA to 175 but not changing any stats, Now top Premier ship clubs were bidding including Man Utd at 1 million..

so basicly what this means teams will sign players with rubbish stats, form poor hidden stats just because they have a high CA..

just for the record i dont cheat so am stuck with his 12k a week wages for another 2 years. i knew when he scored 20 odd goals and i offerd him a wage cut from 15k down to 12k would backfire, it always does, offer a player a new contract that is playing well kills them lol

If you increase a players CA his attributes will automatically go up as well. AI indeed does judge players on CA and PA instead of individual attributes - but ideally CA and PA should give you a good indication on how good a player is anyway. Doesn't always work that way though, especially with regens.

I just don't believe what some people post. :o

His stats will go up if his CA goes up, if his CA is above the total of his stats, his stats will fill up automatically.

Messing with CA and PA can get you some pretty crazy results, if you edit Titus Bramble's CA to 175, people will think he's as good as Ronaldinho, regardless of reputation.

Actually, HHUK, I know it isn't what you meant, but reputation- home, world and current- does play a big part in how the AI views players.

Wayne'o- it's well known that the AI doesn't look at attributes when rating players. Scout reports, assistant reports, team selections, international call ups, and AI transfers, are all based on CA, PA and rep. As CA= attributes (+weightings), it makes sense.

Earnshaw's attributes will shoot up after a week now...

I remember a few years ago when I was younger, and hadn't played FM/CM for a number of years because I'd gone off football management games, I used the pre-game editor to give a striker all reputations at 10,000. Within a week of starting the game he'd been sold for 37m and his stats weren't even that good.

Reputation definitely plays a part in national team call ups, for the first few years at Stoke on this save, despite Keirrison banging them in for fun, he didn't get a call up to the brazil squad until after I'd won the premiership, and even then was only a bit part player until capturing the champions league. Meanwhilst players like Rafael Sobis were getting called up ahead of him who couldn't score domestically or internationally.

I believe the AI looked at personality as well. Managed to sell Martin Rowlands of QPR 6 months into the games for 1.4 million(rated 675K) to West Brom 11th in the premier league. His CA/PA is 124/136 with spirited personality. I issued a hands off warning cos hes the captain and didn't offer him, they just bidded for him. The money allowed me to get Schneiderlin from southhampton.

Players performing well is a different kettle of fish altogether, I've had a truly shocking player in my team through a few months leading up to January as I had an injury crisis upfront, he was only valued at 300k but I sold him on for 1.1m because he'd been playing in a winning team, and been getting an odd goal + set up for the striker next to him.

it's been like this for years, instead of adding new additions to the gmae why dont soem of the current problems have more research done to improve it. it seems a typical british thing to me

CA Is a better indicator of player Ability (dah =P) than stats. It takes into account many more attributes than just technical, mental and physical. An double footed player with the same stats as a Very Strong, Very Weak player willhave a higher CA in usual cases

There's also a significant processing-time advantage. Imagine how slow the game would be if, every time an AI club was interested in a player, or considering a contract for one of its own, or considering a starting lineup .. if it had to perform some convoluted summation of that player's attributes into an overall score - especially when that overall score would be very similar to the player's CA.

You'd be adding a significant amount of slowdown to everybody's save game, for a benefit so marginal that only a few people would ever care.

Personally, I'd much rather see AI remodeled to perform long-term squad building rather than to "simulate real-life transfers", which appears to be the current goal.

If you play the game as designed then their CA and attributes will match up. If you use an external editor to change one without changing the other, then of course it will alter the behaviour of the game.

...which is not to say that transfers don't need some work, just that the experiment doesn't properly replicate what is going on in the game.

There's also a significant processing-time advantage. Imagine how slow the game would be if, every time an AI club was interested in a player, or considering a contract for one of its own, or considering a starting lineup .. if it had to perform some convoluted summation of that player's attributes into an overall score - especially when that overall score would be very similar to the player's CA.

You'd be adding a significant amount of slowdown to everybody's save game, for a benefit so marginal that only a few people would ever care.

Personally, I'd much rather see AI remodeled to perform long-term squad building rather than to "simulate real-life transfers", which appears to be the current goal.

Or you could keep the score as a running total (let's just call it, er, "Current Ability") and update this running total when required.

It sure beats updating CA and then doing all the reverse calculations to figure out which attributes need to go up! At least the former is simply a weighted sum.

CA = stats. Um thats all I got.

im not sure that is all totaly true, iv seen some players with a much less CA than other players and yet they have better stats... good stats alone dont make every player a good player because there hidden stats may hinder him but it is a good indication..

some of the real life bad boys obviously have a high controversy and low profesional stats but dont see them doing to many outrages thing's in the game..

I think a player with a high consistancy rating can be as good as a player with a high CA provding he has some decent enough stats in the areas needed...

i know a littel bit about how CA can turn out as i use the MRTE in long term games to edit certain player, the ones that have 190 PA for a Centre back and then have 2 for anticipation and positioning not to mention a 5 for composure while they get 15 for finishing or freekicks ect..

if a player is capable of achieving 190 PA he would have enough sence and brains to beable to adopt his all round game to play as a centre back would he not? unless of course your asking a player such as earnshaw to play as a centre back cos it's never gonna happen..

in the game soem world class defenders have better attacking stats than some strikers with CA of 115..

can i ask your views on natural fitness? my opinion of a player IRl that had a high natural fitness would obviously be in better condition that some that smokes and drinks, or basicly he was a natural athlete and would need less training to reach peak condition..

whats the extent of naturel fitness during a game? because iv read it can effect a player fitness during a game? it would be a controdiction for a player to have high work-rate, team-work, high-stamina and strenght if he had low naturel fitness?

what is it's biggest effect in the game? and does all world class players need it to be world class?

I think a player with a high consistancy rating can be as good as a player with a high CA provding he has some decent enough stats in the areas needed...

Fair point - I think I prefer a player with slightly lower CA but higher Consistency myself; I like knowing I'm going to get a solid performance out of him' date=' rather than a hit-or-miss.

in the game soem world class defenders have better attacking stats than some strikers with CA of 115..

This is one of the things I think of as a bit of a problem with the current system .. the defender's weighting for Finishing, Long Shots, etc, is much lower than the weighting for a striker. So, its possible for a defender to wind up "spending" very little CA to pick up Finishing of 15 or so, which is very expensive for a striker.

I'm not sure I buy it from my own observations of the sport - I don't see, say, Lucio or Rio Ferdinand having comparable Finishing to a Premier League - calibre striker, and I wouldn't say they are better than a Championship or League 1 striker .. but eventually, take it far enough down, they may well be more adroit with the ball at feet in the area than a Blue Square North striker.

can i ask your views on natural fitness? my opinion of a player IRl that had a high natural fitness would obviously be in better condition that some that smokes and drinks, or basicly he was a natural athlete and would need less training to reach peak condition..

whats the extent of naturel fitness during a game? because iv read it can effect a player fitness during a game? it would be a controdiction for a player to have high work-rate, team-work, high-stamina and strenght if he had low naturel fitness?

what is it's biggest effect in the game? and does all world class players need it to be world class?

I think it has three main effects:

1. Rate of recovery of Condition between matches

2. Speed of progression from Severely Lacking Match Fitness to Match Fit

3. Ability to come back from injury after 3+ weeks still Match Fit.

The first is probably the one you'll notice the most: if you want a player to be able to start two matches a week, week in and week out, you're going to need high Stamina (to prevent Condition loss during matches) and high Natural Fitness (to promote recovery between matches). Note that it is also crucial for most international tournaments, as matches tend to come very close together.

I think some world class defenders mainly those with a high tecnical stat would be much better on the ball and could pass it better than most lessor players and i guess im taling south american or Italian here? but if a defender really had the ability of 15 for shooting may be he would of ended up a striker in the first place? i done a check to see how many stikers in the game had 20 for shooting and it was minimal and admirable stat im sure if you can get one at your club

Once Amaroq posts in a thread I rarely have anything more to contribute. What he says is what my "perfect" answer would have been. I wouldn't have phrased it so eloquently though.

Personally, I'd much rather see AI remodeled to perform long-term squad building rather than to "simulate real-life transfers", which appears to be the current goal.

This has been cr*p for years ... i really REALLY hope they manage to fix it very very soon, it would make the way i play the game much more interesting and challenging.

And Set Pieces

And Training

One major underlying problem for teams I've noticed is that the managers stats make a huge difference as well, on my save Arsenal had Wenger to start with then Guardiola as manager, Guardiola isn't the best rated manager out there, but under AI control Arsenal bought sensibly, young players who started and didn't spend frivilous amounts on fringe players who had high ratings but were poor performers.

Couple years down the line, they took on a cheap manager on £7,000 a week and then began spending massive amounts on players who weren't the great and began to decline. Whilst there is other factors involved, you can measure the deterioration of a side by the level of manager. On the same save Real Madrid also hired Benitez, now without me being involved in the spanish league at any level other than having it active; in 2 seasons they scored over 400 goals. I posted it up on here, and poked around in the leagues, the majority of the clubs had very poor managers with poor stats and Barcelona had been ravaged by their Guardiola replacement. Anyway, long story short, Benitez was the only manager who wasn't either lower down when the game began or a player turned manager.

Real Madrid assembled a side with good youngsters and experienced players, buying all manner of players and actually phasing out the older ones.

well on my current save 2 seasons old, Liverpool had a rich tycoon take over and Benitez along with Man City spent like 200 million in transfer's.. Man City beat Liverpool to 4th place in the first season and from there reserve team you could probebly build a premiership winning team its massive, out of interest if any ones intrested i can get you details..

Now in the 2nd season Liverpool did actually manage to get there top 4 finish with Man City falling below Spurs into 6th. the wealth of talent that Liverpool signed is alos mind blowing, Liverpool still sell player for 22million after buying the player 1 season earlier for 22million and then thy go and buy anotyer forign replacment for a similer price and age.. Rafa has still kept his job as the new directors are all Spanish.

This save is in 2020 now, so a lot of the games good managers have gone. A lot once they get out of work won't get back in either, most clubs like Arsenal, Man Utd, Barcelona etc only seem to be willing to spend about 20k a week on the managers wages. So now it's benitez up against the likes of managers you'd fine in league 1/league 2 alright but not got that great a reputation or that great stats so their teams underperform, don't buy well at all or anything along those lines.

Meanwhile, Mourinho, Guardiola etc are all sat out of work. I do attribute it to being the only reason why Keirrison was able to score so many on my save, the likes of Watford and Cardiff are my title contenders because they do have original managers. This season Man Utd hired Coppel at 65, he isn't going to last long but instantly he bought a player better than any buy in the last 7/8 years for them. They've gone from relegation candidates to being able to challenge for the top 4 again so far this season.

Obviously I'm not saying it's the whole reason, but in a period of 4 years Arsenal went from almost untouchable (Wenger in charge) to still a strong side (Guardiola in charge) to losing on average about 10 games a season with a regen or lower manager in charge. Transfer spending went up exponentially with little outgoings to fund it or make it necessary. Yet, results still became worse.

how about using the FMRT editor to make some of these managers good?

I'm not sure what stats would make a manager good, I mean reputation does play a part as well, once they start getting high reputations they want more wages, and the clubs don't seem to want to be paying high manager wages they need them for that regen who's never played but is on 135k a week lol.

The system in which managers are regenerated should be looked at, or possibly, for the short term future, stop managers ageing, whilst they work on it because longevity of the game has been savagely destroyed in my opinion with flaws like this. But it'd be far too much effort to go through the game, and recreating an alex ferguson, wenger and ultimately the other managers who weren't as big names but made the premiership competitive still to a degree.

you can always save the stats of current managers such as Wenger and then import them onto a regen and he will have the same stats Wenger ect.. dead easy to do..

There is one underlying factor there though, in order for the game to have sustained play you shouldn't have to do that lol. I might look into it, but a lot of damage has been done to teams now, and there's no factoring in for these managers going other clubs etc. Then the problem repeating 12 months down the line, I mean it wouldn't be that bad if Mourinho was given a job but instead has been out of work for like 7 years.

tell ya what mate take a thew days off and send your save game file to me, i will edit it and add some exciting managers and players for you.. i enjoy doing that as much as i do playing the game these days and then leaving the game to run on holiday and seeing where they end up

One major underlying problem for teams I've noticed is that the managers stats make a huge difference as well, on my save Arsenal had Wenger to start with then Guardiola as manager, Guardiola isn't the best rated manager out there, but under AI control Arsenal bought sensibly, young players who started and didn't spend frivilous amounts on fringe players who had high ratings but were poor performers.

Yes, I'd noticed the same thing in my FM'05 save, so this has been a long-running problem.

Perhaps it isn't particularly a problem with the AI per se as it is with the manager CA/PA progression?

I was noticing this poking around the DB the other day, that few of the coaches - even good 30-40-year-old coaches, have much in the way of extreme PA. If we do draw the next generation of managers from this generation of coaches, perhaps they simply never get as good as the Wenger/Ferguson/Benitez models which start the game?

Or perhaps it is an AI problem, but a "precipitous drop-off" problem, in other words, the top-class managers behave sensibly but the drop off to the next batch of managers is far too steep, leading to irrational behavior at the second and third tier of the system (early on) and the top levels later on.

santy001 - I think this topic is well worth its own thread. Do you mind working your observations up a little bit, and starting one? Feel free to cut+paste from this, or link back to it, whatever makes that work easier, but I think this is something we need to highight.

Thanks in advance!

Yes, I'd noticed the same thing in my FM'05 save, so this has been a long-running problem.

Perhaps it isn't particularly a problem with the AI per se as it is with the manager CA/PA progression?

I was noticing this poking around the DB the other day, that few of the coaches - even good 30-40-year-old coaches, have much in the way of extreme PA. If we do draw the next generation of managers from this generation of coaches, perhaps they simply never get as good as the Wenger/Ferguson/Benitez models which start the game?

Or perhaps it is an AI problem, but a "precipitous drop-off" problem, in other words, the top-class managers behave sensibly but the drop off to the next batch of managers is far too steep, leading to irrational behavior at the second and third tier of the system (early on) and the top levels later on.

santy001 - I think this topic is well worth its own thread. Do you mind working your observations up a little bit, and starting one? Feel free to cut+paste from this, or link back to it, whatever makes that work easier, but I think this is something we need to highight.

Thanks in advance!

each year the game gets released with new improvments and so fourth but there are still alot of problems kciking about that has been there for years? why is there such a rush to add extra new items to the game and these old problems never get picked up to the extent they seem like a valid area of the game that needs to be improved for long term stabiliy?