The FM09 Appreciation Society-Everyone Read

Dear all FMers,

After reading Zol!'s unimpressed views on FM09, I feel it is time that those who have actually got enjoyment out of 09 air their views for all to see. Here are my points.

1. The whole"activation issue" I think a lot of people (trying not to speak for the whole FM Community) would have been a whole lot happier without it. However I am going to speak for the majority in saying that we generally got onto FM09 in the end. With such a huge amount of people using one server to activate, it was going to cause a problem-indeed, Google broke down when Michael Jackson died due to so many hits.

2. "Pick up and play" issues This infuriates me every time I hear some gormless moaner come on and complain about how the "pick up and playability" has gone. If you want to assemble a world class team for peanuts, and win 100 games in a row 3-0 without conceding, play FIFA. FM has always been based on realism and I feel that it has reflected the increased difficulty of winning IRL in the game. If you want to get an easy game, either edit or manage Man United/ Barcelona. I had a frustrating experience at first with Chelsea, but after taking time to understand the game I have finally managed to gain success. I can never see myself winning 11 consecutive titles like on 08. I prefer it as it keeps me interested for longer. Seriously. Stop asking SI for an easy game.

3.3D Issues SI have used a 3D match engine for a year. FIFA have used 3D for a decade and then some. Did you expect flowing, fluent play at the first attempt? SI have always seemed reluctant to implement this and this is why-because people expect too much of a feature in its' "baby years". In ten years I am sure FM shall have a far better 3D match engine. And for god's sake, if you don't like it, YOU CAN USE 2D!!!! THERE IS A 2D OPTION!!!

4.Bugs SI write millions of lines of coding and all of this contributes to what is by far the most realistic and in-depth simulation around. They will make errors. For all the people whinging that "SI are money-grabbers who don't care about us", the fact that they released three patches, none of which were obligatory, shows how they DO indeed care about giving us the best gameplay experience possible. Some more intelligent people may have noticed that there were more, bigger (i.e 3D engine, press conferences) new features than before-this was a groundbreaking edition. So expect more mistakes! I am sure soon 3D, Press Conferences, Activation, Steam etc shall run, perhaps not flawlessly, but far better. Cut SI some slack.

5.Skins For god's sake, FM isn't an art show. Anyone like Zol! who seriously believes that without a superbly manufactured skin the game is unplayable needs to consider what FM is about. It is not a graphical game like FIFA. It is not the SIMS. It is a database-based game that relies far more on a database of good quality than a beautiful interface/background.

6.Data issues This brings me on to my next point. I am not certain, but are there not something like 350,000 players/staff in the world in contrast to FIFA's, which has less than a 20th of that. Do you really expect each attribute for each player in each league to be accurate? The Cheifs at SI can only go on what their researchers tell them. Bias can enter the equation. So can sheer lack of "Judging Player Ability!". There are a huge amount of clubs and leagues in the game already and the amount increases each year. If SI can find the researchers, they shall implement the leagues.

In conclusion, I do agree that FM09 had major flaws. But SI were introducing so many new features for the first time. They had never used Steam before. 3D was new. The Press Conferences were again new. Ass man feedback had been revamped. Yet SI still delivered a game that was sturdy (IMO) if not spectacular, and it is also my opinion that people griping and vowing to join the CM cult, let these spoilt, overexpectant gamers leave. SI shall still sell a fantastic amount of copies worldwide and shall still strive to give us a great gaming experience. So let's cross our fingers, wait for FM2010 and remember just how many good games SI has provided us with over the years.

Let the vitriol and abuse begin.

Messi

Not sure that this is the way to go about it. If you try to answer all the objections you just invite all those who are unhappy to argue the point. If you want this thread to be about appreciation of the game then you need to stick to talking about what you like.

For me it is those moments where FM transcends the limits of a game and just becomes reality - like the mad scramble in front of goal to secure a vital point, or the conclusion of a year long chase to sign a player, then watching him have a storming debut - those moments when I clench my fist and shout "YES!" under my breath.

Good points there most will probably agree with you.

Check out the "My Career" threads by hursty2 NotWordsButDeeds and me Saxonaitor

'Everyone read' comes across as presumptious as 'I speak on behalf of the whole community' I'm afraid.

I generally agree with most of your sentiments; however, I don't feel that the nightmare of lost days and money I went through to get activated can be brushed off, happy as I am now I'm playing the game. Secondly, my laptop runs 3D okay (bit stuttery), but I do sympathise with those many fans who bought the game in good faith only to find their specs aren't good enough. I sill give FM09 a 9/10 though.

Everyone has their own view on FM09.

In general I think it is a very good game that has potential to get even better. The activation however was a complete incompetent **** up, yes the servers were always going to be busy in the first few days of release but SI/Sega already knew that and should have been able to have a process in place to cope. However when you then add on the numbers shambles and the fact that the alot of people who did have the minimum specification and above couldn't run the game without having to get advice on here and having to troubleshoot alot of area it does total to a very poor release of a game. Furthermore this is proved by the official apology that I believe Sega released, no company does that unless they know they have really infuriated their client base.

Everyone wants a perfect game but I agree we all have to be realistic as well. However SI probably have their biggest battle to keep its fans, CM is coming on strong, FIFA can attract people with its presentation even if the game play is poor, so lets hope SI rise to the challenge and better this already very good game.

Finally the skins issue is an interesting one. The FM09 default one is sufficient I agree, however it really wouldn't take that much work for SI to release a couple of extra official skins to give people a variety. There are many 3rd party skins out there but to be honest SI should be developing this game as well as the 3rd parties giving fans other options.

2. "Pick up and play" issues This infuriates me every time I hear some gormless moaner come on and complain about how the "pick up and playability" has gone. [/Quote]

How 'Easy' a game is and how 'Playable' it is are two different things. Granted, there is a relationship between the two, but they are distinguishable from one another.

I had a frustrating experience at first with Chelsea, but after taking time to understand the game I have finally managed to gain success.

I had a frustrating experiance at first with 11 different clubs, taking over 18 seasons and clocking up a total of 21 days playing time. But after taking time to understand the game I managed some success...

...and I still thought 09 was the worst FM in memory.

3.3D Issues In ten years I am sure FM shall have a far better 3D match engine. And for god's sake, if you don't like it, YOU CAN USE 2D!!!! THERE IS A 2D OPTION!!!

But the 3D has screwed with the 2D! It's now much harder to distinguish what a player's movements represent and the whole thing runs much slower and less fluidly. The match engine now lags in 2D, something I haven't seen since CM4.

5.Skins For god's sake, FM isn't an art show. Anyone like Zol! who seriously believes that without a superbly manufactured skin the game is unplayable needs to consider what FM is about. It is not a graphical game like FIFA. It is not the SIMS. It is a database-based game that relies far more on a database of good quality than a beautiful interface/background.

On the other hand, I think there's a problem when the interface in the previous version was more responsive than in the newer version.

Yet SI still delivered a game that was sturdy (IMO) if not spectacular,

You mean they delivered a game that was repetative, if not completely tedious. [/exaggeration]

Toffeviola, fair play to you, I haven't actually used the 2D yet so I gusss I'm kind of unqualified but I never thought that 3D would affect the 2D. I guess I just feel that I'm finding FM enjoyable and although I was enraged by not being able to play it straight away, the whole "phone activation" balls up got on my nerves etc, I personally just feel that in comparison to FIFA (which I've bought) and CM (which a family member bought), FM still was the best football simulation experience. That's all.

...but I never thought that 3D would affect the 2D

Me neither. I was never interested in the 3D in the first place but was grateful that SI loyally kept 2D in the game. It's just a shame it's affected it somewhat.

I personally just feel that in comparison to FIFA (which I've bought) and CM (which a family member bought), FM still was the best football simulation experience. That's all.

Couldn't agree with you more

I still love FM, just not FM09.

Totally agree with ToffeeViola's post.

I don't want to go through the same arguments again but here goes anyway.

1. The whole"activation issue" - was unnecessary and an absolute joke.

However I am going to speak for the majority in saying that we generally got onto FM09 in the end.

In the end is not good enough. It is our leisure money and our leisure time. It's a total waste of both if we cannot access the product that we have decided to spend our money and time on whenever we want to use it.

2. "Pick up and play" issues - Has nothing to do with it being easy or otherwise. Personally, I find that FM09 is full of flashy superficial features that have contributed very little to my playing experience and do nothing but slow the game down in my opinion. I have no problem with being successful on the game. The slowness and the bloated feel of FM09 is the 'pick up and play' issue for me.

3. 3D Issues -

And for god's sake, if you don't like it, YOU CAN USE 2D!!!! THERE IS A 2D OPTION!!!

You can turn your caps lock off and grow up.

My main gripe with 3D is that it stutters on my machine and that it doesn't look particularly good. I wouldn't care at all if it was as simple as just switching to 2D but, regrettably, the 2D mode is also stuttering and jerky on my machine. This is despite the fact that my laptop meets the specification.

As ToffeeViola says, the 2D is much less fluid and is poor compared to previous versions and that is because of the introduction of 3D.

4. Bugs - Not only were many loyal fans unable to access the game at all on the day of release, but those fans who were able to access it had to put up with some pretty awful bugs. I found some of the bugs were so bad in terms of ruining my enjoyment that I didn't start a save game on FM09 until the December patch release. We had bloody 3D and press conferences but a fatal crash in Serie C and an FA Cup bug, among other issues affecting my enjoyment of the game. Personally, I'd rather have playability over flashy superficial features that have contributed very little to my playing experience and do nothing but slow the game down in my opinion. I accept that there will always be bugs but this year's game was poor on release and so was FM08 on release.

There are question marks over whether or not I will buy FM10 and I certainly won't bother buying it on the release date if I do. The last two versions have taught me that it is a total waste of time to buy the game prior to at least the second patch.

5.Skins - My main complaint here would be related to the user interface. FM08 was quick, responsive and accessible. FM09 is extremely poor in comparison.

6.Data issues - The data is one area where I have absolutely no complaint at all.

The fact is that FM09 feels bloated, unfinished and frustrating to me. FM09 felt like a beta game from day one of release. The unresponsive UI, the slowness, the major bugs. I've said it time and time again but FM09 is at the very least twice as slow as FM08 in processing and in playing matches. There is no real reason that this should be the case. The new features are poorly implemented and there has been no breakthrough in the basics of the game, for example improving tactical options (in fact, they took away options with the removal of the arrows), improving the skin, improving the information available to the user, making the interface more user friendly, improving the potential for career games and so on and so forth.

I would say that FM09 has really left me feeling quite disillusioned regarding the future of the series. I cannot remember enjoying an FM game less in all of my time playing the series from CM2 onwards.

C.

Nice post Messi... LONG LIVE FM!!

I've never actually had a single problem with the processing speed, I haven't noticed any difference either way between 08 and 09...

I haven't had that many problems with 09, activation was annoying but I prefer that to having to keep the disc in the laptop.

I always expect bugs, and was annoyed about how such obvious ones slipped through the net, but not many companies would've tried as hard as SI to fix them (even though they shouldn't have been there in the first place)

I was expecting 3D to be poor, it's the first time they've used it, so that didn't affect me

Whilst I don't think that 09 is as good as, say, 07 was in its day, SI are still making the best football management sims out there, and I'm quite a loyal customer, so even if FM10 & 11 aren't great, it'll probably take that long for me to switch allegiances.

Totally agree with ToffeeViola's post.

I don't want to go through the same arguments again but here goes anyway.

1. The whole"activation issue" - was unnecessary and an absolute joke.

In the end is not good enough. It is our leisure money and our leisure time. It's a total waste of both if we cannot access the product that we have decided to spend our money and time on whenever we want to use it.

2. "Pick up and play" issues - Has nothing to do with it being easy or otherwise. Personally, I find that FM09 is full of flashy superficial features that have contributed very little to my playing experience and do nothing but slow the game down in my opinion. I have no problem with being successful on the game. The slowness and the bloated feel of FM09 is the 'pick up and play' issue for me.

3. 3D Issues -

You can turn your caps lock off and grow up.

My main gripe with 3D is that it stutters on my machine and that it doesn't look particularly good. I wouldn't care at all if it was as simple as just switching to 2D but, regrettably, the 2D mode is also stuttering and jerky on my machine. This is despite the fact that my laptop meets the specification.

As ToffeeViola says, the 2D is much less fluid and is poor compared to previous versions and that is because of the introduction of 3D.

4. Bugs - Not only were many loyal fans unable to access the game at all on the day of release, but those fans who were able to access it had to put up with some pretty awful bugs. I found some of the bugs were so bad in terms of ruining my enjoyment that I didn't start a save game on FM09 until the December patch release. We had bloody 3D and press conferences but a fatal crash in Serie C and an FA Cup bug, among other issues affecting my enjoyment of the game. Personally, I'd rather have playability over flashy superficial features that have contributed very little to my playing experience and do nothing but slow the game down in my opinion. I accept that there will always be bugs but this year's game was poor on release and so was FM08 on release.

There are question marks over whether or not I will buy FM10 and I certainly won't bother buying it on the release date if I do. The last two versions have taught me that it is a total waste of time to buy the game prior to at least the second patch.

5.Skins - My main complaint here would be related to the user interface. FM08 was quick, responsive and accessible. FM09 is extremely poor in comparison.

6.Data issues - The data is one area where I have absolutely no complaint at all.

The fact is that FM09 feels bloated, unfinished and frustrating to me. FM09 felt like a beta game from day one of release. The unresponsive UI, the slowness, the major bugs. I've said it time and time again but FM09 is at the very least twice as slow as FM08 in processing and in playing matches. There is no real reason that this should be the case. The new features are poorly implemented and there has been no breakthrough in the basics of the game, for example improving tactical options (in fact, they took away options with the removal of the arrows), improving the skin, improving the information available to the user, making the interface more user friendly, improving the potential for career games and so on and so forth.

I would say that FM09 has really left me feeling quite disillusioned regarding the future of the series. I cannot remember enjoying an FM game less in all of my time playing the series from CM2 onwards.

C.

Agree with everyone he says

Especially the slowness of the game

I agree with most of the OP, FM2009 is the best FM game. Difficulty level is just right, match engine is the best yet, and while features like press conference need work, the whole game still has the same high quality that all FM games have.

I disagree on the activation. The whole process was completely over the top. As the PC I play FM on isn't connected to the internet, I had to use the phone, and the bugs in that system kept wrongly kicking me out until after 2 days of trying it eventually worked. 8 different stages of activation code is completely unnecessary, and while the game has luckily been worth the effort, I shouldn't have to endure that again.

I've still don't really understand why the whole activation process is necessary at all.

I don't want to have to rely on third party servers, or whatever, to play a game. When I buy a game, I want to be able to put it in, install it easily and play it. I'd prefer just having the disc in the drive than going through all of that nonsense. Don't even get me started on Steam.

C.

The phone activation was a crucifying experience, but was internet activation not somewhat better? Apparently it was quicker.

I'm with Crouchaldinho, not sure what the point of the activation was. No previous version of the game ever needed this, so why do we need it on FM09?

Otherwise I am a big fan of the game and always will be, it's in a league of it's own.

I'm going to side with the OP here. In fact I have had more fun with this version of FM than any other since the CM 2 era.

Just a couple of points I would like to make.

Online Activation

AFAIK (and feel free to correct me), not only is the sales side of it nothing to do with SI (its Sega's job to actually sell the game) but the release day issues were a denial of serviec attack from an external group. No matter how many resources were thrown at this before release, judging the scale of a future attack is nigh on impossible IMHO.

Bugs

Since CM2 or 3, I have always bought the game at or just after xmas. While I hesitate to recommend this as it hurts SI and Sega's cash flow, I have always avoided major bugs as it is second patched by the time I play it, and I still get a full year to play a game as it I always bought in on release.

I do agree that I shouldn't have to, but we don't live in a perfect world and we shouldn't always get what we want. With a game like FM where random events an algorithm processing rather than scripted events make up the vast bulk of play, issues and bugs are inevitable....just play the PS3 pre-patch Fallout 3!!

3D Engine

This is an area where I do have criticisms. Whilst I think that the latest (9.0.3) is great, and up there with the best (yes, even with the sliders, which I have no issue with), the 3D experience does feel unfinished, and maybe another year in development would have been to the game's benefit, but I have a feeling that once it was in the pipleline, it was pushed by Sega and practically forced out.

Remember, its Sega's money and they are in charge.

Long Live FM.

Totally agree with ToffeeViola's post.

I don't want to go through the same arguments again but here goes anyway.

1. The whole"activation issue" - was unnecessary and an absolute joke.

In the end is not good enough. It is our leisure money and our leisure time. It's a total waste of both if we cannot access the product that we have decided to spend our money and time on whenever we want to use it.

2. "Pick up and play" issues - Has nothing to do with it being easy or otherwise. Personally, I find that FM09 is full of flashy superficial features that have contributed very little to my playing experience and do nothing but slow the game down in my opinion. I have no problem with being successful on the game. The slowness and the bloated feel of FM09 is the 'pick up and play' issue for me.

3. 3D Issues -

You can turn your caps lock off and grow up.

My main gripe with 3D is that it stutters on my machine and that it doesn't look particularly good. I wouldn't care at all if it was as simple as just switching to 2D but, regrettably, the 2D mode is also stuttering and jerky on my machine. This is despite the fact that my laptop meets the specification.

As ToffeeViola says, the 2D is much less fluid and is poor compared to previous versions and that is because of the introduction of 3D.

4. Bugs - Not only were many loyal fans unable to access the game at all on the day of release, but those fans who were able to access it had to put up with some pretty awful bugs. I found some of the bugs were so bad in terms of ruining my enjoyment that I didn't start a save game on FM09 until the December patch release. We had bloody 3D and press conferences but a fatal crash in Serie C and an FA Cup bug, among other issues affecting my enjoyment of the game. Personally, I'd rather have playability over flashy superficial features that have contributed very little to my playing experience and do nothing but slow the game down in my opinion. I accept that there will always be bugs but this year's game was poor on release and so was FM08 on release.

There are question marks over whether or not I will buy FM10 and I certainly won't bother buying it on the release date if I do. The last two versions have taught me that it is a total waste of time to buy the game prior to at least the second patch.

5.Skins - My main complaint here would be related to the user interface. FM08 was quick, responsive and accessible. FM09 is extremely poor in comparison.

6.Data issues - The data is one area where I have absolutely no complaint at all.

The fact is that FM09 feels bloated, unfinished and frustrating to me. FM09 felt like a beta game from day one of release. The unresponsive UI, the slowness, the major bugs. I've said it time and time again but FM09 is at the very least twice as slow as FM08 in processing and in playing matches. There is no real reason that this should be the case. The new features are poorly implemented and there has been no breakthrough in the basics of the game, for example improving tactical options (in fact, they took away options with the removal of the arrows), improving the skin, improving the information available to the user, making the interface more user friendly, improving the potential for career games and so on and so forth.

I would say that FM09 has really left me feeling quite disillusioned regarding the future of the series. I cannot remember enjoying an FM game less in all of my time playing the series from CM2 onwards.

C.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Many seem to forget that each FM release is basically a expansion pack on the previous version. The bases of it is the same, so its not like a whole new game needs to be put together. Thus more time can be used towards getting what is already in place working correctly, sadly though that doesnt seem to be the case. Instead we see the same features still being hindered with issues as they were previous releases (given some have been fixed), while most of the time seems to go towards the "gimmick" features as some may call them. Which still dont seem to be implemented in a solid state, sadly.

I'm with you Crouchinho on that FM2010 will be a make or break game in some instances. Having been a CM/FM player since 00-01, FM09 has been the one I've personally, like yourself, found very hard to actually get into.

For me its defiantly the worst released version of the game to date. Fingers crossed 2010 picks up and recaptures the good times.

**** off mate(OP).Stop ass licking FM

Zol! thread was a genuine opinion to improve FM,your arse licking is ****ing idiotic

Nice contribution iamweesel.

*Adds to ignore list*

C.

iamweesel, I wish that I was as eloquent and as intelligent in my arguments as you are.

Praising a game is not "asslicking."

Personally I feel that FM09 is a step on the way, while it might not be the best FM made I see this release as one where SI implement new features for the first time that will become huge parts in the games to follow. Unfortunately when you put new features in a game there are going to be bugs and errors with it the first year, maybe two.

I am so excited for the future of the FM series, while everyone is talking about the new CM and even FIFA I cannot wait for FM2010, and everyone after. The 3D match engine had many errors, but it is brand spanking new this year, along with many of the other features that have had errors and bugs. This FM is a transitional one, I'm sure that this one will be seen as the precursor to many great FMs to come.

Totally agree with ToffeeViola's post.

I don't want to go through the same arguments again but here goes anyway.

1. The whole"activation issue" - was unnecessary and an absolute joke.

In the end is not good enough. It is our leisure money and our leisure time. It's a total waste of both if we cannot access the product that we have decided to spend our money and time on whenever we want to use it.

2. "Pick up and play" issues - Has nothing to do with it being easy or otherwise. Personally, I find that FM09 is full of flashy superficial features that have contributed very little to my playing experience and do nothing but slow the game down in my opinion. I have no problem with being successful on the game. The slowness and the bloated feel of FM09 is the 'pick up and play' issue for me.

3. 3D Issues -

You can turn your caps lock off and grow up.

My main gripe with 3D is that it stutters on my machine and that it doesn't look particularly good. I wouldn't care at all if it was as simple as just switching to 2D but, regrettably, the 2D mode is also stuttering and jerky on my machine. This is despite the fact that my laptop meets the specification.

As ToffeeViola says, the 2D is much less fluid and is poor compared to previous versions and that is because of the introduction of 3D.

4. Bugs - Not only were many loyal fans unable to access the game at all on the day of release, but those fans who were able to access it had to put up with some pretty awful bugs. I found some of the bugs were so bad in terms of ruining my enjoyment that I didn't start a save game on FM09 until the December patch release. We had bloody 3D and press conferences but a fatal crash in Serie C and an FA Cup bug, among other issues affecting my enjoyment of the game. Personally, I'd rather have playability over flashy superficial features that have contributed very little to my playing experience and do nothing but slow the game down in my opinion. I accept that there will always be bugs but this year's game was poor on release and so was FM08 on release.

There are question marks over whether or not I will buy FM10 and I certainly won't bother buying it on the release date if I do. The last two versions have taught me that it is a total waste of time to buy the game prior to at least the second patch.

5.Skins - My main complaint here would be related to the user interface. FM08 was quick, responsive and accessible. FM09 is extremely poor in comparison.

6.Data issues - The data is one area where I have absolutely no complaint at all.

The fact is that FM09 feels bloated, unfinished and frustrating to me. FM09 felt like a beta game from day one of release. The unresponsive UI, the slowness, the major bugs. I've said it time and time again but FM09 is at the very least twice as slow as FM08 in processing and in playing matches. There is no real reason that this should be the case. The new features are poorly implemented and there has been no breakthrough in the basics of the game, for example improving tactical options (in fact, they took away options with the removal of the arrows), improving the skin, improving the information available to the user, making the interface more user friendly, improving the potential for career games and so on and so forth.

I would say that FM09 has really left me feeling quite disillusioned regarding the future of the series. I cannot remember enjoying an FM game less in all of my time playing the series from CM2 onwards.

C.

I agree with all of this and Zol!'s original post.

My laptop was new when this game came out and it's very slow on my laptop when processing between match days especially, and until the 3rd patch i would struggle to play in full screen due to freezing, i emailed a SI worker and he said it was a unknown bug which happens to a small group of people, but my cousin brought the game and had exactly the same problem, meaning we both had to play the game in windowed. I know it got fixed but if you buy a game you want to atlest be able to play it in full screen from when you install it cmon!

I enjoyed FM 08 a lot more because it was faster and more free flowing type of game, not waiting on loading between matchdays!

True but 09 is harder and more addictive, 08 was boringly easy.

True but 09 is harder and more addictive, 08 was boringly easy.

Matters little when the actual gaming experience isnt as user friendly or enjoyable.

Dear all FMers,

After reading Zol!'s unimpressed views on FM09, I feel it is time that those who have actually got enjoyment out of 09 air their views for all to see. Here are my points.

1. The whole"activation issue" I think a lot of people (trying not to speak for the whole FM Community) would have been a whole lot happier without it. However I am going to speak for the majority in saying that we generally got onto FM09 in the end. With such a huge amount of people using one server to activate, it was going to cause a problem-indeed, Google broke down when Michael Jackson died due to so many hits.

Faulty comparison I'm afraid, why do people want to forgive & forget the activation debacle so easily - still now new purchasers are having to deal with the amateur printing I1O0 situation.

To make your google comparison valid then the following would need to be true:

*For weeks before Google advertise their site as the exclusive place to access MJ death stuff - released 25/6/09!

*Then they charge you £30 for the "product"

*They give you an access code that is almost inelligable and needs a cracker (not available until half way through the day of release!) to give you access.

... I believe they did none of this?

True but 09 is harder and more addictive, 08 was boringly easy.

They were both about the same actually.

FM08 might have been easier for those people using exploitative arrows rather than using the same formations and arrow configurations as the AI (e.g. 4-4-2 farrows on the wide players).

I've used the same tactics on FM09 as I did on FM08 and found the difference in terms of difficulty negligible.

C.

Maybe.I definately found it harder to win a league when I set my past experience to "Sunday League" and I think that unless your tactic is near on spot-on you don't do as well as in 08, where one tactic could win with any team really.

Good thread Messi, I agree with most what you are saying, though disagree about the activation part which I felt was shambolic. There are two many moaners on here about pointless things, like that Zol bloke with his whining, whose main complaint seemed to be about the skin, which is the last thing I care about in a game like this, as long as it is playable.

Good post Messi, I think this years FM was a great game. No patches or anything, dark ages for me, i brought the game had some issues with activation(took the day off to play wasnt happy) but othere then that top marks from me.

Amen to that

I like FM 09 alot.

In my opinion they base too much emphasis on team talks, I mean 3-0 up playing confidently saying pleased all the time shouldn't make them worse EVERY game should it.

Also thinks it's a bit too complicated tactical-wise.

Overall I like it a lot though.

Curiosity got the better of me today and I decided to reinstall FM09.

Started a save using one league and a small database. I haven't loaded it up in a few months and I just wanted to get a feel for the game.

It's just as bad as I remember. Even with the lowest settings of one league and a small database, the game is unresponsive and feels slow with my laptop sounding as if it might explode at any minute. It is a decent spec machine as well.

I tried the 3D just to be totally open minded about it and it looked dreadful and jerky. It actually gave me a headache watching it.

I turned to the 2D Classic and that started to jerk around too.

Unfortunately, I see no reason to change my opinion of the game. Time, that great healer, has not managed to do its work on FM09.

*Uninstalls FM09*

C.

Also thinks it's a bit too complicated tactical-wise.

I think this is somewhat of a myth. I don't believe it is any more tactically complex than FM08. There is very little difference apart from the removal of arrows.

In fact, the most success I have had on FM09 is with very simple tactics with mostly global settings.

C.

I didn't realise there was a lot of non-love for FM09. For me it is the best in the series so far, I really like the 3D and it is the first one for years where I actually get some decent regens. The tactical level seems about right, as does the difficulty. The press conferences aren't very good but they simply replace the not-very-good media interaction from earlier versions.

The activation thing was pretty shoddy I agree. Making every user jump through hoops just because a handful might go for a pirated version is poor practice. Better that than planting hostile 'security' software on your computer, I guess (although that's exactly what Steam looked like to me).

Are there issues with it not working properly on computers that have the minimum given spec then?

A bit harsh on that Zol! guy only because he made the mistake of saying he was speaking for the whole FM community before pointing out his views. But anyway ...

2. "Pick up and play" issues This infuriates me every time I hear some gormless moaner come on and complain about how the "pick up and playability" has gone. If you want to assemble a world class team for peanuts, and win 100 games in a row 3-0 without conceding, play FIFA. FM has always been based on realism and I feel that it has reflected the increased difficulty of winning IRL in the game. If you want to get an easy game, either edit or manage Man United/ Barcelona. I had a frustrating experience at first with Chelsea, but after taking time to understand the game I have finally managed to gain success. I can never see myself winning 11 consecutive titles like on 08. I prefer it as it keeps me interested for longer. Seriously. Stop asking SI for an easy game.

Agree with you, specially in the play FIFA part (PES in my case), personally if i wanna feel a BADASS MF that wins everything i play PES.

About the game's difficulty, i'd take it even further, it seems to me that right now the only option to play the game is by somehow taking lower league clubs to top of the world, or simply start with a top club and win everything from the start. I wish we could have a realistic simulation of a football →manager←, obviously you could pick between two game modes, one would be how the game is now and the other one would be this "simulation mode", in this "simulation mode" you'd have to take your lazy nerd ass to the top (if you're good enough of course) by gaining reputation and therefore getting better jobs at better clubs (you'll get to the top depend on how well you did at your previously clubs of course, the level of difficulty would be that past experience stuff as "Automatic" would be almost impossible to reach the top and "International player" would be very easy. Or of course you can always start you game at a top club), instead of taking →clubs← to the top. What would differ this simulation mode would be sacking frequency, chairman would take care of transfers etc. I might make a thread and elaborate my idea one day.

But yeah, we could at least have more option before we start a game.

6.Data issues This brings me on to my next point. I am not certain, but are there not something like 350,000 players/staff in the world in contrast to FIFA's, which has less than a 20th of that. Do you really expect each attribute for each player in each league to be accurate? The Cheifs at SI can only go on what their researchers tell them. Bias can enter the equation. So can sheer lack of "Judging Player Ability!". There are a huge amount of clubs and leagues in the game already and the amount increases each year. If SI can find the researchers, they shall implement the leagues.

Yeah, it's hard to make everything so accurate in such a huge database, But still there are some weird researchers out there, like the portuguese one. anyone ever noticed how many one-footed player there are in Portugal?

I don't know about the guidelines SI ask the researchers to follow or anything like that, but it seems to me that researcher, at most cases, use one guideline to decide the CA and another one to decide the PA. It seems that CA 185 or so is only for the very best players of their generation, but still so many unproven youngster gets PA close to that, eventhough it's highly unlikely that they'll ever reach such level. I don't know if they do that on purpose or if researchers are getting too enthusiastic about young players.

Personally I'm totally in love with FM09. It's the most engrossing and enjoyable version of a fantastic game, and I love the fact that it's in-depth and complex. I don't want a quick-click and play game. I want a game that insists you put the thought and time in, just like a real manager would have to. And hats off to SI for their cotinued help and support they give through this forum.

**** off mate(OP).Stop ass licking FM

Zol! thread was a genuine opinion to improve FM,your arse licking is ****ing idiotic

On another note, FM09 has been excellent since 9.0.3.

9.0.3 revived 09 for me, KUTGW SI.

Leo, it is perfectly possible to have a career game in FM.

On another note, FM09 has been excellent since 9.0.3.

9.0.3 revived 09 for me, KUTGW SI.

Agree with that. For me 9.03 was a massive jump in ironing out most of the problems. and the 3d is very realistic in my games.

I don't understand why people say it's slow, 95% of the time it runs, if not faster, just as fast as 08 and 07...

I don't understand why people say it's slow, 95% of the time it runs, if not faster, just as fast as 08 and 07...

No it doesn't.

It has been tested by several people now and it is around 50% slower than FM08 with the same settings.

C.

Here is one test result comparing the speed: http://community.sigames.com/showpost.php?p=3167429&postcount=57

C.

The speed results on my computer were even more pronounced - FM09 is 50% slower. I also ran CoreTemp alongside my tests and saw that FM09 was clearly placing a much greater load on my processor, which is why my fan whirs so much more when I play FM09 than it does for FM08.

At the end of the day, to use a cliche often used in the footballing world, FM09 is slow and unresponsive on my decent specification laptop (which more than meets the specification for this game). I don't like the 3D and I don't like the press conferences. There are only a few very minor features that I do enjoy. For a so-called 'ground-breaking' edition of the game, I'm disappointed to say that FM09 didn't move very far forward at all.

C.

I certainly havent noticed it being any slower on my pc. Seems the same to me.

I don't like to repeat myself but it is 50% slower.

C.

1. The whole"activation issue" I think a lot of people (trying not to speak for the whole FM Community) would have been a whole lot happier without it. However I am going to speak for the majority in saying that we generally got onto FM09 in the end. With such a huge amount of people using one server to activate, it was going to cause a problem-indeed, Google broke down when Michael Jackson died due to so many hits.

Not good enough. Not only is the DRM unnecessary, and something that really only affects loyal paying customers, SI / Sega should be well aware of the demand for FM, through previous years sales alone if nothing else. For that reason it is still shocking that this wasn't planned a whole lot better.

2. "Pick up and play" issues This infuriates me every time I hear some gormless moaner come on and complain about how the "pick up and playability" has gone. If you want to assemble a world class team for peanuts, and win 100 games in a row 3-0 without conceding, play FIFA. FM has always been based on realism and I feel that it has reflected the increased difficulty of winning IRL in the game. If you want to get an easy game, either edit or manage Man United/ Barcelona. I had a frustrating experience at first with Chelsea, but after taking time to understand the game I have finally managed to gain success. I can never see myself winning 11 consecutive titles like on 08. I prefer it as it keeps me interested for longer. Seriously. Stop asking SI for an easy game.

Then you clearly don't understand the complaint of most people. No one wants an easy game, but much of the fun has gone from FM simply because it is getting less and less about real football knowledge and more and more about spending hours fathoming out the relationships between sliders that themselves make little sense.

Complex and rewarding are what people want, not confusing and frustrating.

3.3D Issues SI have used a 3D match engine for a year. FIFA have used 3D for a decade and then some. Did you expect flowing, fluent play at the first attempt? SI have always seemed reluctant to implement this and this is why-because people expect too much of a feature in its' "baby years". In ten years I am sure FM shall have a far better 3D match engine. And for god's sake, if you don't like it, YOU CAN USE 2D!!!! THERE IS A 2D OPTION!!!

As many have mentioned, 2D is no longer the same since 3D. I actually like the 3D, and the only problem I have with it is the fact that if you do want to play in 2D you not only get a poorer 2D view than in FM08, but you also still get the same lack of performance as you would using the 3D.

For me the 3D should not be as resource intensive as it is considering what it is, and should definitely be seperated from the 2D.

Most of the rest of what you've posted I agree with in part, although this year some of the bugs slipping through were a bit frustrating. I fully understand that bugs will always get through in this type of game, but there were some genuine game breakers slipping through that should have easily been found.

And then there's the fluidity of the whole thing. FM is now bogged down with so much useless stuff that it takes far too long simply to get to a game, then once you get there you go through about 5 screens before the match actually starts. This is my biggest gripe with the latest FM, everything just takes so long. When I think about sitting down for a session I know in the back of my mind that if I don't have at least a spare couple of hours I'll be lucky to play more than one or two actual matches. And that is the single biggest thing that is sucking the fun out of the game for me.

I don't understand why people say it's slow, 95% of the time it runs, if not faster, just as fast as 08 and 07...

Absolute rubbish.

Not good enough. Not only is the DRM unnecessary, and something that really only affects loyal paying customers, SI / Sega should be well aware of the demand for FM, through previous years sales alone if nothing else. For that reason it is still shocking that this wasn't planned a whole lot better.

Not good enough

Thats like saying its the governments/polices fault and that its not good enough that the M6 is closed because there has been an accident.

or that its United Utilities fault that you have no electricity or water because someone else has cut though a pipe/cable.

Get a grip, it was up & running and working fine within 48hrs.