Drafting

Can anyone explain this to me and its dis/advantages??

Are you talking about MLS?

Are you talking about MLS?

Yes i havent played there but i want to no how it works

So do I! Let me know if you find out Dylan Römer.

It has always put me off managing in MLS, although I am curious about trying it.

There must be a guide somewhere on here. Maybe try searching and see what you can come up with.

C.

Try this: http://web.mlsnet.com/about/league.jsp?section=regulations&content=overview

Might help.

C.

USA leagues are rubbish. Save wasting your time by doing something else.

Why are they rubbish?

The basic idea of "drafting" is a difference in the way youth development works from the U.S. to Europe. In the U.S., amateur high school and collegiate athletics are very important to youth development, with the best youth excelling in high school (under-18s), then typically going to a high reputation collegiate sports team for age 18-22.

When a player graduates college (or sometimes earlier, by choice), the player gives up his amateur status and "declares" for the draft in his chosen sport (football, basketball, American football, baseball, whatever). Once he does that, he cannot play high school or collegiate athletics.

Rather than have the teams fight over players, financially, auctioning off to the highest bidder, the players are assigned to a single team via the draft mechanism.

American sports don't have promotion/relegation, and are set up to encourage "parity", the idea that any given team should have a chance of winning the title, given the right moves. One way that we encourage parity is by having the draft in inverse order from the previous season's standings.

The last-placed team selects first, and picks one player.

The second-to-last placed team selects second, and picks one of the remaining players.

Repeat until all teams have selected one player. That constitutes one "Round" of drafting. When all of the rounds in a draft are completed, the Draft is over. Any unselected player is a Free Agent and can sign with any team .. but they're usually fairly bad, too, so the teams don't have much incentive to spend highly on them.

One interesting bit that this creates is that you can transfer draft picks - if you're playing your first MLS save, you'll find transfers a bit odd. You can use your transfer budget to purchase players from non-MLS sides. However, within the MLS, all you can do is "trade" players and draft choices.

So, for example, I might trade Joe HotYoungProspect and a 1st-round draft choice in exchange for Tom EstablishedStarPlayer. This deal makes sense to me if I'm striving to win the title this season; it might make sense to the other team in the trade if they have written off this season and are looking at winning the title three or four years from now, when Joe HotYoungProspect and the prospect they should get from a 1st-round selection have both had time to mature and develop.

Amaroq - great post, as usual.

Still a little confused over here.

So MLS sides will go through the 'draft' process solely for youth players then? How many rounds are there usually?

What happens if you get a footballer who graduates and only wants to play for his home town club? How does it work for him? Does he just have to go to whoever picks him? Or does he get picked and then transferred? Or perhaps he gets some control over who picks him? :confused:

And outside of the draft process, MLS teams are free to sign players (for money) from non-MLS sides. They are also free to 'trade' or swap players with other MLS sides in order to improve their teams. Is that right?

How does that work in practice? Do you get many trades? What happens when a player wants a move to another MLS side, let's say for personal reasons? Is his club able to get a good deal for this player who wants to leave or do they end up trading and losing out? What about at the end of contracts etc.?

So, in FM terms, it sounds to me as though the user/manager starts off with a given squad. He can then go through a series of drafts in order to sign new youth players (i.e. regens). Following that he can trade players with MLS sides or buy non-MLS players. Am I getting the idea right?

I'm intrigued by the idea of encouraging parity. It would certainly make the Premier League more interesting, in my opinion, if things were more equal. Does this system actually work though in practice? Aren't there still 'bigger' sides who can go outside the MLS to attract talent.

Does the MLS not have any promotion or relegation then?

As you can tell, I have literally no idea about American sports. I'm interested in trying to manage in the MLS on FM one day though.

Sorry for all of the questions.

C.

To answer some of your questions crouchaldinho (to the best of my ability anyway), I don't think Americans really have that much of a 'desire' to play for their home club, and accept the fact that they don't have much control over where they choose to play.

However, if a player does put in a reasonable request to leave, it is still possible to work out a deal.

Players can only go to the team that drafts them they dont have a choice in the matter.

I have always wanted to play the MLS but it seems a bit too strange to me.

TBH it is strange, but I rather enjoyed playing the MLS (and learned the rules mostly by playing).

Amaroq - great post, as usual.

Still a little confused over here.

So MLS sides will go through the 'draft' process solely for youth players then? How many rounds are there usually?

What happens if you get a footballer who graduates and only wants to play for his home town club? How does it work for him? Does he just have to go to whoever picks him? Or does he get picked and then transferred? Or perhaps he gets some control over who picks him? :confused:

And outside of the draft process, MLS teams are free to sign players (for money) from non-MLS sides. They are also free to 'trade' or swap players with other MLS sides in order to improve their teams. Is that right?

How does that work in practice? Do you get many trades? What happens when a player wants a move to another MLS side, let's say for personal reasons? Is his club able to get a good deal for this player who wants to leave or do they end up trading and losing out? What about at the end of contracts etc.?

So, in FM terms, it sounds to me as though the user/manager starts off with a given squad. He can then go through a series of drafts in order to sign new youth players (i.e. regens). Following that he can trade players with MLS sides or buy non-MLS players. Am I getting the idea right?

I'm intrigued by the idea of encouraging parity. It would certainly make the Premier League more interesting, in my opinion, if things were more equal. Does this system actually work though in practice? Aren't there still 'bigger' sides who can go outside the MLS to attract talent.

Does the MLS not have any promotion or relegation then?

As you can tell, I have literally no idea about American sports. I'm interested in trying to manage in the MLS on FM one day though.

Sorry for all of the questions.

C.

Ok Crouch, I'll give this a shot. The draft is usually consisting of the top 18-22 talent in the United States college system. However, since 1999 the MLS has created a Superdraft system that allows not only college players to be drafted, but also talent from the United Soccer League (USL). The USL has multiple divisions that make up the lower tiers of American Soccer. The Superdraft lasts for 4 rounds, allowing each team 4 new players just through the draft.

Now, when it comes to playing for a hometown team, this is an issue that very rarely ever comes up. Sometimes in other American sports players will announce they don't want to go to the worst team, and will refuse negotiations over their contract. To my knowledge, this has never happened in MLS. However, if it did happen, it might allow the play some say, but not much.

In your thoughts outside the draft when it comes to signing international talent you are correct. These are called Designated Players. Much like the Marquee player rule in the A-League, these players salary may exceed the total salary cap for the team, however these players come few and far between. Most famous among them is David Beckham. Trading is also allowed as well as Amaroq mentioned. This will involved trading certain players for either picks, players, or Designated Player Slots, which would allow you to have more than one Designated player on your team.

When dealing with someone wanted to move because of a personal reason, most managers will try to get the best deal possible. A problem may arise if the player isn't wanted by the club he wants to move to and he'll become unhappy where you are. It's all about coming to an agree. Obviously, once a player's contract runs out, he can sign with any MLS team.

Your idea for what the game would play like is correct, however you may also trade players during the season as well as signing free agents to add to your squad. There is a cut-off date for trading known as the Trade Deadline in which no more tades may be made after these dates.

The MLS does encourage parity, that is true. However sometimes, like in any sport you can find a dominant team. The powerhouse of the league in recent years has been the Houston Dynamo, winning the 2006 and 2007 MLS cups. Since this is an American league, the winner of the regular season isn't the team with the best overall record. With the team split into two divisions, East and West, they take the top 4 teams from each division and play an 8 team play-off to determine the champion. The MLS has no Promotion or Relegation.

I hope that answers your questions, and if they don't I hope that this proves as a springboard for someone more knowledgeable about the MLS than I to help you.

That's a great post bergtaur and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me.

C.

That's a great post bergtaur and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me.

C.

Thanks man, makes me feel good to know I've helped with the boredom I'm facing at work.

Ok Crouch, I'll give this a shot. The draft is usually consisting of the top 18-22 talent in the United States college system. However, since 1999 the MLS has created a Superdraft system that allows not only college players to be drafted, but also talent from the United Soccer League (USL). The USL has multiple divisions that make up the lower tiers of American Soccer. The Superdraft lasts for 4 rounds, allowing each team 4 new players just through the draft.

In the game, there are 125 players who enter the draft (in real life the number is probably a lot larger). In real life they are college players, but in the game they are regens who play for PDL teams, an amateur level in the American system. In real life some of the college players play for these teams during the summer when they are not at school. In FM09 there is also a Supplemental Draft, which is another four rounds a few days after the SuperDraft. In real life the Supplemental Draft is no longer takes place because the squad sizes have been decreased and the players taken in the Supplemental Draft often don't even get signed by the teams and rarely play first team games. Oh, and besides a dozen or so Generation Adidas players and a few other very talented players who sign contracts with the MLS before the draft, teams are actually selecting the rights to players so there is no guarantee that a selected player will end up with a contract. In real life, some college players like Marcus Tracy and Mike Grella essentially ignore the draft and head to Europe to find a bigger contract. Americans who also have a European passport (such as Grella and Michael Videira who is now with the New England Revolution) are more likely to do this in real life but in the game it doesn't happen.

Now, when it comes to playing for a hometown team, this is an issue that very rarely ever comes up. Sometimes in other American sports players will announce they don't want to go to the worst team, and will refuse negotiations over their contract. To my knowledge, this has never happened in MLS. However, if it did happen, it might allow the play some say, but not much.

It's true it's never really an issue. Once in a while a player requests to be traded and the teams involved (and the league who likely puts pressure) end up making a deal. Dave van den Bergh is a recent example.

So, in FM terms, it sounds to me as though the user/manager starts off with a given squad. He can then go through a series of drafts in order to sign new youth players (i.e. regens). Following that he can trade players with MLS sides or buy non-MLS players. Am I getting the idea right?

When you start a new game, early 2008 (I can't remember the exact month) you have to go through a full season first before your first draft. You can make trades, sign unnattached players, etc. before the 2008 season though.

I'm intrigued by the idea of encouraging parity. It would certainly make the Premier League more interesting, in my opinion, if things were more equal. Does this system actually work though in practice? Aren't there still 'bigger' sides who can go outside the MLS to attract talent.

Yes and no. A team still needs a good manager to be successful. Also, some teams are more active than others in bringing in new players. It's uncommon for teams to have a string of good or bad years. As also mentioned Houston Dynamo has been good for a while, as has the New England Revolution. Besides last seasons playoff run to the finals, the New York Red Bulls haven't had a great season in years. There aren't "bigger" sides who can go outside the MLS to attract a group of talent because of other reasons, specifically the salary cap and the allocation system.

Does the MLS not have any promotion or relegation then?

Correct

Parity has made things interesting and the drafts and allocation systems have enabled MLS to survive to this point. The team management is certainly different than what you would see outside of the U.S. but it's not a whole lot different from the NFL and NBA. It might be confusing at first but give it a try. There are people here who can answer more specific and challenging questions.

So MLS sides will go through the 'draft' process solely for youth players then? How many rounds are there usually?

As bergtaur indicated, there are 4 rounds in the SuperDraft. There is also a second draft, the Supplemental Draft, with another 4 rounds. I've never quite understood who is available in the Supplemental Draft.

In FM-game-experience, early 1st-round SuperDraft players tend to be very valuable, able to contribute well immediately and develop into league superstars. Late 1st-rounders are more likely to contribute off the bench and develop into league-standard players. 2nd-rounders and 3rd-rounders aren't much use their first season but do develop reasonably. 4th-rounders and most Supplemental Draft players are .. well, let's just say I trade my 4th-round picks.

What happens if you get a footballer who graduates and only wants to play for his home town club? How does it work for him? Does he just have to go to whoever picks him? Or does he get picked and then transferred? Or perhaps he gets some control over who picks him?

No control over who picks him. Usually, by age 22-23, players have come to he pragmatic realization that they aren't always going to get to play for their boyhood hero club, and that its a business first. You will occasionally see sentiment-driven transfers but they're the exception, not the rule. MLS it almost hasn't been an issue as the league hasn't been around long enough to have the almost religious-fervor following you'll be used to from Europe.

How does that work in practice? Do you get many trades?

Definitely. Most trades aren't driven for personal reasons, but for club reasons.

First off, key difference: when a player is traded, the contract is traded with them. Unlike a transfer, which is contingent on the player negotiating a new contract with his new club, the player has no control over accepting or rejecting the trade.

Therefore, you're much less likely to see a player agitating for a trade, as its unlikely to result in financial benefit for him. (It does happen when you get player-manager differences, or playing time greivances, but again that's much more rare.)

Instead, you'll see it driven from the club's perspective. The salary cap and roster limits drive some of it: say you're pursuing Player X from Europe .. but you're already at your cap and roster limit. You need to "free up cap space" .. which could mean "cutting" (release on a free) a player, but as you still have to pay him .. you're better off trying to deal. So you might trade Player Y and Player Z to another MLS club in exchange for Player W and a draft choice ... assuming that the calculus comes out: salary X + salary W <= salary Y + salary Z.

What happens when a player wants a move to another MLS side, let's say for personal reasons? Is his club able to get a good deal for this player who wants to leave or do they end up trading and losing out?

When its known that a trade has to happen .. typically the selling club can't get much in return.

What about at the end of contracts etc.?

Technically, the player is available on a free.

Trade-wise, its a very good question.

Let's say you have a 33-year-old veteran MC in the last year of his contract. You've basically decided, based on his age and the younger talents in your squad, not to renew his contract.

Halfway through the season, you can tell that you aren't really in a position to make the playoffs, and you're basically "playing for next year". Rather than let him go on a free, with no recompense, you might find a club which is doing well but looking to improve itself for a second-half (and playoff tournament) push. You would essentially "sell" your aging star, hoping to get back something of future value .. maybe a 2nd-round draft pick?

The purchasing team might push back, "Look, we really don't think we'd sign him to a new contract, we're basically just renting him for six months. Will you take a 3rd-round pick instead?"

Does the MLS not have any promotion or relegation then?

Nope. Wish it did! We wind up with what you'd call a "dead rubber", a match which is going to have no practical impact on the playoff situation because both clubs are already eliminated. They have nothing to play for - unlike a relegation dogfight, which might sell out a stadium, they will play in front of a 2/3 empty stadium. They put out glorified youth squads (might as well get the youngsters match experience).

A cynic might even point out that both sides have an incentive to lose, as finishing below the other in the standings would give you a better position in the draft ...

I'm intrigued by the idea of encouraging parity. It would certainly make the Premier League more interesting, in my opinion, if things were more equal. Does this system actually work though in practice? Aren't there still 'bigger' sides who can go outside the MLS to attract talent.

It works to differing degrees in different sports.

Baseball clearly has 'bigger' sides - the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Angels can all afford to spend tremendous amounts of money on player transfers, salaries, etc, and are all usually in the mix for a playoff position.

The parity measure in (American) Football have given it a lot less predictability ... though the Colts and Patriots have put together strong runs the past five or six seasons, absolutely nobody predicted the Cardinals making it to the Super Bowl last season.

However, I actually find that I dislike it - American football is the sport I follow most closely, locally, and I much preferred the era of the '70's and '80's. For example, as a lad I hated the Raiders - they were my club's big rivals - and looked forward to the twice-a-season encounters with them with a vengeance. Now, though they were a top-quality team in 2001-2003, the past six seasons they've been, frankly, pathetic - I find myself pitying their loyal fans for what they've had to go through.

Sure, to the neutral fan, not knowing is nice .. and to the fan of a smaller club, you'd have to say "yeah I want an equal shot at the title" .. but it turns out that I liked hating the Raiders, but knowing that they'd be good every year ... I liked knowing who the strong teams were, so that I could pick out what the best games were going to be by looking at the schedule .. even to looking forward to a match between two great clubs because I knew it would be a good match even if I didn't support one of them.

The Cardinals are a great example of my point, in fact. Without the threat of reduced revenues due to relegation, the family which has owned them has, for many many years, taken the attitude "let's run them as a business, and turn a profit." After analysis, they figured out there were two ways to do it: spend spend spend and try to win - with no guarantee that money spent could buy results on the pitch ... or keep your operating costs low by underpaying players, allowing talent to hemorrhage away, etc.

Sucks for fans of the team, yes. But it did guarantee that they weren't going to contend for the title .. because they didn't deserve to. I'd have been very distressed if they won the Super Bowl for exactly that reason - the team is still run that way.

So, its sort of a "be careful what you wish for" situation, in my opinion. Not necessarily something to rush out and adopt.

From where I sit, promotion/relegation, European qualification, and European competition are some of the beautiful aspects of the global game, and I can't see a parity solution that retains them.

Thanks for two fascinating posts MarkyMark and Amaroq.

C.

Fantastic thread, some of the best explanations I've read throughout my hundreds of hours of lurk-age.