European Champions 1972- meltdown to obscure non league and reborn in 2009!

Im thinking of starting my own experiment after enduring endless banter on the footy-mad forums for my team Doncaster Rovers. Forest and Leeds fans continually come on the message boards boasting how much better they are despite league positions becasue of their teams past success. Imagine if Nottingham Forest and Leeds plight from the top divisions had resulted in them going into freefall and obscurity to the Blue Sq N/S, and if Doncaster Rovers situation of the 90's (where former chairman Ken Richardson decided to cash in, attempt to burn down the ground for insurance cash and play youth players and local sunday league players) was from a more established background of 70's European success. Mix the two together and we have a team that has fallen into the Blue Square North or perhaps just made it back there after a decade of football in the regional football leagues. A chairman decides to buy, and the old stadium has just been renovated and still has the air of 70's European success airing around it. The time for revival is now! But the process will be done on the fact that this club were once mighty. Which ambitious young players who would perhaps be playing in the squads of other teams in that league anyway, fancy a crack at resurrecting this fallen star?

The experiment will be to see how a team with massive European success can perform given that this is the only real attractiveness to their club. It will see how a 'Notts Forest' type club will fare of Football manager after so many real supporters of these types of clubs believe they have a divine right to success siimply because their teams history shows good heritage. What im looking to do is create a database with a team in the Blue Square South to see how a series of implications over the last decade has seen them in the mire of clinging onto existence despite a series of European conquests (possibly set their history to 4 times European Cup Winners), and make the scenario that of:-

>The team having appointed a new ambitious chairman and board offering a new level of stability without being able to financially outmuscle their opponents in the same league.

>A good sized stadium emulating that they have previously been a big club and still have a large catchment area and big fan base.

>Scenario where the club may have (like Doncaster Rovers) sufffered a scenario where ex chairman tried to burn down the ground, and they must rise based on foundations of good facilities, good stadium and heritage being the attraction to the club.

>Top youth setup like Leeds should result in situations like Leeds (Fabian Delph etc) where hopefully these players will be the basis of the clubs success rather than paying ridiculous wages in order to get players able to compete at that level.

>Clubs reputation will be an average of a host of clubs that fall into the category of sleeping giant/past Euro Champs/and fallen stars. So Forests reputation, Charlton, Accrington, i will think of others and research their reputation in game based on past success.

>Chairman will be an ambitous man but not willing to pump stupid amounts of money in.

>Jouneymen may be included in the original squads team. Players 33+ who were perhaps kids when the Euro success was happening, and fancy being a part of a new era as they reach the end of their playing days. The rest of the squad just players who fit the league. Young lads.

>The manager may be an Edited ex player of the team. Whichever team i choose in the experiment Il look at Icons/legends/ etc and edit the manager to fit. He will have his personal attributes geared in order to be ambitious and to make his stay at the club as long as possible.

Aim of the experiment to see how reputation despite it being from success many decades ago can influence the rise of a once successful team. See if they might seem a more attractive proposition to players when the transfer windows come by, despite having interest from a team a league above.

Before I begin, any ideas for conditions of the database and starting up will be greatly appreciated.

Anything Iv missed that will spice up the challenge?

Experiment is set up.

Here's the conditions I have changed.

>Forest switched with Gateshead from Coca Cola Championship to Blue Sq North respectively.

?Gatehead finances set to a minimum level to compete in league one. Attendances changed in order to be financially viable in Championship and reputation set to Championship minimum to attract players and not create unrealistic team in the league.

>Forest ground set to 30,000 capacity as if the City ground had been renovated after decade or so out of use whilst Forest were in Obscurity

Here's the fun bit.........

>Pierre Van Hooijdonk set as Chairman. (Obviously feels he has a debt with Forest and he'l be responsilble for guiding them back to previous levels.) His Chairman stats are set to interferance- 12, Business- 10, Patience- 7 (realistic) Resources -8, Ambition- 20, Controversy- 18, Loyalty- 10 and all others -10. His current ability is set at 80, and his PA at 200.

>Van Hooijdonk has maximum relationship with Forest legend Brian Roy who I hae isntalled as manager.

>Brian Roy's stats- mostly 10's although due to him being an attacker and Dutch I gave him technical coaching stats of 17, and attack of 18.

I have set Forests reputation at 2100.

I decided to change this from 5000 as they are adjudged to have not competed in anything above regional football lvel for a good few years due to a club catastrophe in lets say, 2003.

I chose this as League 2 Notts county were at 3000ish so due to Forests European success in 1979 and 1980, I have set the reputation based on these achievements.

The only players that are now in the Forest squad were youth players with CA's of 71 (highest) and 35 lowest. These are with the exception of legendary goalkeeper Mark Crossley who I have set as Brian Roy's assistant player/manager. He has a current ability of 91 and will act as their 'Jouneyman' and general influential figure for the 1st season until his impending retirement.

Forests bank balance is set at 350k. I set this based on Gateshead's being 250k but Van Hooijdonk must have some of his career wages left to set the books.

The transfer budget is set at 100k and wage budget 5000.

Ticket prices are £16 and season ticket prices £300.

This should see them generate some good cash with the stadium they have, although I have set minimum attendances relative to that of what the league would attract to games.

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Holidaying is now in play for pre season so Il report back before Forest's 1st fixture with any players they have brought in, and will screenshot their current squad.

Forest have been hammered in pre season friendlies. Gillingham 4-0, Southampton 3-0.

However the Forest 'youths', to my pleasure, are performing at a competitive (neither too strong or weak for BSN) level after my tinkering with the squad and conditions.

No transfers in pre season but some high profile loans in.

LOL. Bryan Roy as manager? Pi-Air as chairman? That team is doomed.

Anyways, I am unclear what you would want to achieve here. Reputation is basically everything in FM, past successes in the history have no influence on the game at all. I understand the premise, but you're trying to measure influences that are not coded in the game.

The aim is to see if they can rise the league's at a quicker rate than most other teams in the same league.

The major differences are:-

> Stadium is still pretty much ready made for higher competition.

> Reputation. The level I set it at puts them in the 'local' category on the club information screen. Most teams in Blue Sq North are obscure. The is probably a big influence on the loan signings they managed to get in pre season.

> They have to attempt their rise through the leagues under the same conditions as other teams around them. Where plea's to play at a higher level may be common.

As you said, if reputation is everything and past success is no real factor. Then the experiment may turn into a case where the key influences are:-

> Match attendances being pivotal in generating cash to attract players/fund transfers etc.

> They may reach the league again but stagnate as their reputation only matches those around them and no factors can seperate them from the competition.

As it stands, Forest are at the top of the Blue Square North with only their original youth players and the journeyman Mark Crossley. Shows that a newcomer to the championship at the games start, has a youth squad capable of topping BSN. Or perhaps shows that Forest, despite their status to this day, have better than average youth set up compared to other championship teams that havent had anywhere near the same past European success as Forest.

Il screen shot Bryan Roy's profile at some point and Pierre's to show the back room they have.

Report: Season 1 June- December 2008

Forests bid to make their way back up the leagues starts here. With a transfer budget of 100k perhaps a few lower league stars could join, but it didnt really happen. Manager Brian Roy (ex Notts forest and Holland International) felt the Forest youth set up he had adopted, were good enough to compete at this level. He did however bring in a few loan 'stars'.

Lee Martin- Manchester United- CA 119/PA 142

Paul Anderson- Liverpool- 115/140

Joel Lynch- Brighton- 100/127

Forest's reputation as 'local' clearly the main factor behind these players decision to try themselves out in Englands 5th tier for a season.

The sort of Current ability that would make a player something of a star in this league seems to be about 50. Most sides have players on loan that are at 55 and the best players on the team.

Nottingham Forests youthfull squad consists of:-

GK. Mark Crossley- 39- Wales - 78/170

....then various Youth players that are originally with them. These however all have decent current abilities in the 40's/50's and 60's and one player in particular who is leading the scoring charts on 18 goals looks like he may well be able to grow with the clubs up the leagues. His development may well run hand in hand with the standard of leagues.

Key players:

Ryan Whitehurst-ST Age 19, 33apps/18 goals, 7.08 avg rating

Tim Hopkinson-ST Age 18, 29apps/12 gls, 7.10 avg rating

Liam Hook- MC, AGE 19, 25APPS/10assists, 6.62

These three are all original Youth players.

Forest have over the course of the first 3 months brought in 3 players to bolster their extremely young and inexperienced squad. These being:-

Andrew Tarub (SCO) age-20, From:Sauchie, Fee:Free trans ex Celtic academy, played briefly for Cowdenbeath and Sauchie in Scotland before his release.

Jaap Jong- Free transfer. 20. Former Ajax trainee, dutch, brief spell with ADO Den Haag before his release. Plays AMR/ST and has scored 5 goals in 10 during an impressive start for Forest.

Robbie Lawton. 29yr old who has floated around a host of non league clubs, nost notably Altrincham and Vauxhall motors. Plays RM and adds experience to a very young squad.

At New Years Eve Forest were blitzing the league with barely any real structure to their squad. The youth players were simply more than adequate at this level and Forest lead on 46 points with Workington 6 points back on 40 points.

Other potential challengers include Stalybridge, Gainsbrough and Southport. Notts Forest have drawn 3 and lost only 4 of their fixtures by 31st Dec.

LOL. Bryan Roy as manager? Pi-Air as chairman? That team is doomed.

Anyways, I am unclear what you would want to achieve here. Reputation is basically everything in FM, past successes in the history have no influence on the game at all. I understand the premise, but you're trying to measure influences that are not coded in the game.

Also, the reputation that I have set them at is to compensate for the FM engine not influencing the club. The clubs 'local' reputation is to compensate for the influence being ex European Championships would have had.

So I have basically set the reputation as artificial to represent what they would be set at if the European heritage influence was acknowledged.

All or most the other clubs in the BSN have an obscure reputation. Difference being they have normal players with standard age ranges and abilities as you would expect, and Forest have only a youth setup that chairman Pierre Van Hooijdonk has adopted after Forests many years in the football wilderness of the regional counties leagues..