* Oh Why Bother ! *

Well i decided to create a thread to share my number of fustrations with this game and i would like to see if i'am not the only one that shares the fustrations of football manager 2009 !

Well i was managing my favourite club yesturday (Sunderland) and i was coming to the end of the season, 15th place and 3 games to go ... then for some reason i just stopped and thought to myself, WHY BOTHER WITH THIS GAME ?

I thats what i did ... i just stopped playing it and i didn't have any motive to play the game again, however just 3 hours later i cranked up my laptop and started playing the game. I was determined to enjoy this game ... but it just doesnt "float my boat". I want to be able to enjoy a game WITHOUT having to try my hardest to enjoy it. I want the game NOT to be repetative. I want the game to actually be playable and not to feel like i'am being cheated by the A.I

I suppose these are the reasons why i just dont enjoy the game as much as i use to ... ever since Championship manager 03/04 .. i have never really got stuck into managment games like i use to and i believe it's caused by numerous factors.

1. I think the game is too hard, Mainly the tactics

2. It just feels a little unrealistic, i.e. players dont seem to play like real-life teams

3. Very fustrating, i.e. when ever i sign a good player and he plays well for me ... 6 month later bigger clubs want to sign him (for decent money i may add), however i dont want to sell him and that just either leads to 2 outcomes. He starts performing below par, or the chairman decides to but in and sell him anyway !

I suppose my opinions may be shared by other people ... and i also expect people to comment saying ... "well you should do this with your tactics " and " your wrong "

But sorry ... thats just how i feel !

i'm with you on point 3.

i'm so sick of half of my team being wanted and disrupted all the time, why bother bringing in decent players in the first place? May as wlel just use my reserve team and sell all my decent players to man utd and arsenal

**

still ALWAYS go back for more though, LOVE this game.

Calm down, have a cup of tea and look through this forum. You'll find loads of threads with identical rants. Then you'll feel better that you're not alone. A few hours later you'll be back to finish off your season. It's a drug dude, love it and hate it. And play it.

1. I think the game is too hard, Mainly the tactics

2. It just feels a little unrealistic, i.e. players dont seem to play like real-life teams

3. Very fustrating, i.e. when ever i sign a good player and he plays well for me ... 6 month later bigger clubs want to sign him (for decent money i may add), however i dont want to sell him and that just either leads to 2 outcomes. He starts performing below par, or the chairman decides to but in and sell him anyway !

I suppose my opinions may be shared by other people ... and i also expect people to comment saying ... "well you should do this with your tactics " and " your wrong "

But sorry ... thats just how i feel !

I do agree with you.

I used to love CM4 and 03/04 because they were quite simple to play.

You could get a tactic working pretty quickly, you could sign players without them causing problems soon and it just seemed less boring.

The main reason that I don't like FM09 is just because it is frustrating.

I seem to spend an entire season adjusting my tactics to get them to work and then they go to ****.

Like with my previous save with Sunderland, I finished 5th in the first season (with a lot of luck involved), and had a tactic that got me 5 wins on the trot at the end. I then was sat top of the prem after 8 games of the next season with 6 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss. Then suddenly the game decides it seems like I am having too much fun so it makes my tactic stop working, I get trounced by teams 2 leagues below me in both the league cup and FA cup, get 6 points from my next 12 prem games and drop down to about 14th in the table.

Its just the way that the game frustrates me makes me unable to enjoy it.

I don't think anyone is going to be saying "it's your tactics", but I do feel from reading your post that it's honestly what you think.

1. I think the game is too hard, Mainly the tactics

I think a great many people would agree with you that the game is significangly more challenging than before. I am one of them. In about 12 seasons of FM09 I have got relegated once, promoted once and lost in the Playoffs on 3 occasions.

Long gone are the days where you pick your team, buy a couple of players and then press continue a few hundred times whjile you romp the league.

What I would say is that when you do achieve success, (my recent promotion after seasons and seasons of abject mediocrity interspersed with some abject failure), it is far more rewarding than of old.

2. It just feels a little unrealistic, i.e. players dont seem to play like real-life teams

I really do empathise with how you feel so I will try and put this as politely as possible. How they play really is down to the instructions you give them. The game is in fact mind-blowingly accurate and when you start to get things right it all just seems to click.

I don;t mean get things right in terms of scoring goals or winning or getting a result or anything like that. I mean developing a style of play that you want your team to play. It realy isn't easy, (or at least i dint find it easy).

3. Very fustrating, i.e. when ever i sign a good player and he plays well for me ... 6 month later bigger clubs want to sign him (for decent money i may add), however i dont want to sell him and that just either leads to 2 outcomes. He starts performing below par, or the chairman decides to but in and sell him anyway !

Much as I sympathise with your plight, you can't really have it both ways. You moan that the game feels unrealistic yet complain about a run of the mill Sunderland team achieving mid table obscurity and having to sell it's best players. Seems pretty ealistic to me.

Now like you I am not "grabbed" by the game in the same way that I was with CM03/04 or FM07, but I have recently found myself drawn back to the game again and after a break I am now enjoying success after maybe bringing a fresher perspective with me.

The only reason that you should continue playing is because you find it rewarding. I must admit that my recent promotion from Conference South is rated as my biggest FM achievement to date.

Bigger than my GK scoring a ridiculous number of goals.

Bigger than Super Kyle firing an AI managed N.Ireland to the Final of the World Cup.

Bigger than me taking Hitchin to the Quarter Finals of the Champions League in FM07.

I play this game simply because the sense of achievement I get from succeeding at little bits of the game is really rewarding.

Its still not the same "buzz" of yesteryear, but then again I dont have the same time to play.

Maybe taking a break for a week or so might do you the world of good.

then for some reason i just stopped and thought to myself, WHY BOTHER WITH THIS GAME ?

You've just grown up and the child within you is lying dead in a gutter:rolleyes:

Well i decided to create a thread to share my number of fustrations with this game and i would like to see if i'am not the only one that shares the fustrations of football manager 2009 !

Well i was managing my favourite club yesturday (Sunderland) and i was coming to the end of the season, 15th place and 3 games to go ... then for some reason i just stopped and thought to myself, WHY BOTHER WITH THIS GAME ?

I thats what i did ... i just stopped playing it and i didn't have any motive to play the game again, however just 3 hours later i cranked up my laptop and started playing the game. I was determined to enjoy this game ... but it just doesnt "float my boat". I want to be able to enjoy a game WITHOUT having to try my hardest to enjoy it. I want the game NOT to be repetative. I want the game to actually be playable and not to feel like i'am being cheated by the A.I

I suppose these are the reasons why i just dont enjoy the game as much as i use to ... ever since Championship manager 03/04 .. i have never really got stuck into managment games like i use to and i believe it's caused by numerous factors.

1. I think the game is too hard, Mainly the tactics

2. It just feels a little unrealistic, i.e. players dont seem to play like real-life teams

3. Very fustrating, i.e. when ever i sign a good player and he plays well for me ... 6 month later bigger clubs want to sign him (for decent money i may add), however i dont want to sell him and that just either leads to 2 outcomes. He starts performing below par, or the chairman decides to but in and sell him anyway !

I suppose my opinions may be shared by other people ... and i also expect people to comment saying ... "well you should do this with your tactics " and " your wrong "

But sorry ... thats just how i feel !

Sounds pretty realistic to me. If you don't want a hard game, play an easier one.

If you're Sunderland, you will struggle in the first season. Why would you expect any different?

If teams want to buy your players, tough. Its's the same for every team no matter what level you play at. Sunderland pinch players from lower leagues as well you know. How do you think it feels for them?

If the game's too hard, practice. If you don't want to - then don't

Much as I sympathise with your plight, you can't really have it both ways. You moan that the game feels unrealistic yet complain about a run of the mill Sunderland team achieving mid table obscurity and having to sell it's best players. Seems pretty ealistic to me.

I understand what your saying. I'am realistic enough to underatand that when your players play well then they attract other teams (fair enough). But when it gets to the point that you pretty much sell half your starting 11 due to the fact that they become unhappy the you rejected bids for them fustrates me. I wouldnt see aston villa selling young, agbonlahor, carew, davies and miller .... becasue lets face it .. it scuicidal !

You've just grown up and the child within you is lying dead in a gutter:rolleyes:

Haha ... it sounds like i'am pretty boring person ... but i like to think i like playing games as much as the next person does

Also ... getting off topic a bit here ... but i would like to see SI get more involved in the forums and take more advice on improving the game on future versions ... good example of this is EAsports ----> fifa series

Sounds pretty realistic to me. If you don't want a hard game, play an easier one.

If you're Sunderland, you will struggle in the first season. Why would you expect any different?

If teams want to buy your players, tough. Its's the same for every team no matter what level you play at. Sunderland pinch players from lower leagues as well you know. How do you think it feels for them?

If the game's too hard, practice. If you don't want to - then don't

The last thing i expect is to finish amazingly high in the league ... or to create easy tactics where by its very hard to beat my team. Its the fact that i feel like iam being forced into making very complex desicions with-in the game and the fact that the instruction manual is pretty much useless to me .... its not the case of practasing its the case of me understanding how the game works without busting my guts and playing hours on end just to see how my full-back can actually man-mark a player without being useless when goin forward in attack

I understand what your saying. I'am realistic enough to underatand that when your players play well then they attract other teams (fair enough). But when it gets to the point that you pretty much sell half your starting 11 due to the fact that they become unhappy the you rejected bids for them fustrates me. I wouldnt see aston villa selling young, agbonlahor, carew, davies and miller .... becasue lets face it .. it scuicidal !

Villa aren't Sunderland, they are a top 6 team and play European football.

I have no problems with tactics, i use one tactic every single game i play no matter what level im playing at.

I agree on the unrealistic match engine. ( they do some bizzare things)

As for your players being tapped up or unsettled, sadly, isnt this modern day football? you just have to dig your heels in as much as possible and try and keep the player as happy as possible. (yes there are ways to do this, doesnt always work but a good 70% of the time, if not more, it works for me)

I recently started a birmingham game and in my first season in the prem i managed to sign some top players (i couldnt believe they were interested in me) so you can imagine the constant hastle and speculation i had from the big clubs over the next season. I dug my heals in and refused to let them go, eventually they shut up and got on with playing football, however, sometimes its inevitable that you just cant hang on to a player anymore and you have to let him go...such is life in the football world.

By the way, have you tried looking in the tactics forums for plug and play tactics? there must be something there that suits your style of play.

Chin up matey.

Villa aren't Sunderland, they are a top 6 team and play European football.

And does that make them immune from teams like arsenal and real madrid in buying there players ?

You've just grown up and the child within you is lying dead in a gutter:rolleyes:

I did toy with this idea myself!

By the way, have you tried looking in the tactics forums for plug and play tactics? there must be something there that suits your style of play.

Yes i have found certain tactics that can make my team win ... but i dont want to have to search forums in a bid to play like i want them to play .... i would like to be able to do it on my own

Well i decided to create a thread to share my number of fustrations with this game and i would like to see if i'am not the only one that shares the fustrations of football manager 2009 !

Well i was managing my favourite club yesturday (Sunderland) and i was coming to the end of the season, 15th place and 3 games to go ... then for some reason i just stopped and thought to myself, WHY BOTHER WITH THIS GAME ?

I thats what i did ... i just stopped playing it and i didn't have any motive to play the game again, however just 3 hours later i cranked up my laptop and started playing the game. I was determined to enjoy this game ... but it just doesnt "float my boat". I want to be able to enjoy a game WITHOUT having to try my hardest to enjoy it. I want the game NOT to be repetative. I want the game to actually be playable and not to feel like i'am being cheated by the A.I

I suppose these are the reasons why i just dont enjoy the game as much as i use to ... ever since Championship manager 03/04 .. i have never really got stuck into managment games like i use to and i believe it's caused by numerous factors.

1. I think the game is too hard, Mainly the tactics

2. It just feels a little unrealistic, i.e. players dont seem to play like real-life teams

3. Very fustrating, i.e. when ever i sign a good player and he plays well for me ... 6 month later bigger clubs want to sign him (for decent money i may add), however i dont want to sell him and that just either leads to 2 outcomes. He starts performing below par, or the chairman decides to but in and sell him anyway !

I suppose my opinions may be shared by other people ... and i also expect people to comment saying ... "well you should do this with your tactics " and " your wrong "

But sorry ... thats just how i feel !

Regarding point 1 I would suggest you go to the tactics forum and have a read of the posts by wwfan. They are very good and helped me lots. As for point 2 I am not sure exactly what you mean so please can you elaborate a bit. Finally point 3. You can either accept the fact that some chairmen will interfere more than others or you can edit your chairmans stats a bit so he interferes less but you wont be able to stop his interference completely. If you use the editor that comes with the game though you'll have to start a new game for any changes to work. Alternatively try an editor like FMRTE which will work on your current save.

I understand what your saying. I'am realistic enough to underatand that when your players play well then they attract other teams (fair enough). But when it gets to the point that you pretty much sell half your starting 11 due to the fact that they become unhappy the you rejected bids for them fustrates me. I wouldnt see aston villa selling young, agbonlahor, carew, davies and miller .... becasue lets face it .. it scuicidal !

With respect, you are 15th not 5th or 6th as Villa were for much of the season.

Rather than comparing yourself to villa, you should instead be comparing yourself to the likes of some of the teams that finished in mid-table rather than those who qualifed for Europe.

Because you are obviously a Sunderland fan your views on how good you are or aren't is probably pretty skewed. It's only natural.

I would suggest that you have averachieved by finishing 15th with Sunderland. As a result the reputations of some of your players will have grown and many of them will look to use Sunderland as a spring-board to bgger and better things. Come on. It's not as if Sunderland are going to set the World on fire. It is gonna be graft, graft and more hard graft for many more years just to keep staying in the Premiership.

If your players are offered a chance of moving to a higher reputation club who is possibly playing in Europe then they would be silly not to grab it with both hands.

Part of the problem here is that you don;t see 15th as overachievement because you are a biased Sunderland fan.

Regarding point 1 I would suggest you go to the tactics forum and have a read of the posts by wwfan. They are very good and helped me lots. As for point 2 I am not sure exactly what you mean so please can you elaborate a bit. Finally point 3. You can either accept the fact that some chairmen will interfere more than others or you can edit your chairmans stats a bit so he interferes less but you wont be able to stop his interference completely. If you use the editor that comes with the game though you'll have to start a new game for any changes to work. Alternatively try an editor like FMRTE which will work on your current save.

As for point 2, what i mean is that when faced with a 1 on 1 they blast it over the bar ... or when the wingers some how dribble from the halfway line, beat 5 men then score (not saying that it cant happen in football, but it happens alot on the game)

I have no problems with tactics, i use one tactic every single game i play no matter what level im playing at.

I agree on the unrealistic match engine. ( they do some bizzare things)

As for your players being tapped up or unsettled, sadly, isnt this modern day football? you just have to dig your heels in as much as possible and try and keep the player as happy as possible. (yes there are ways to do this, doesnt always work but a good 70% of the time, if not more, it works for me)

I recently started a birmingham game and in my first season in the prem i managed to sign some top players (i couldnt believe they were interested in me) so you can imagine the constant hastle and speculation i had from the big clubs over the next season. I dug my heals in and refused to let them go, eventually they shut up and got on with playing football, however, sometimes its inevitable that you just cant hang on to a player anymore and you have to let him go...such is life in the football world.

By the way, have you tried looking in the tactics forums for plug and play tactics? there must be something there that suits your style of play.

Chin up matey.

i have experienced this problem with many other teams aswell though like

lazio, roma, tottenham, athletio madrid .... and thats just some of them

And does that make them immune from teams like arsenal and real madrid in buying there players ?

Certainly not! In fact they are more at risk as (with respect) they have better players.

What I'm saying i that good players would find it easier to leave a club who are struggling than a club who play in Europe and perform consistently.

Yes i have found certain tactics that can make my team win ... but i dont want to have to search forums in a bid to play like i want them to play .... i would like to be able to do it on my own

So you didnt use the same tactic as everybody else on other cm's?

Im pretty there were a few plug and play winning tactics that everybody used.

So you didnt use the same tactic as everybody else on other cm's?

Im pretty there were a few plug and play winning tactics that everybody used.

The only time i have downloaded tactics to help me is only on FM 2009 ... and iam also assuming that it is the same with lots of other people aswell

The only time i have downloaded tactics to help me is only on FM 2009 ... and iam also assuming that it is the same with lots of other people aswell

I never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever have and I never ever ever ever ever ever will.

That way even the briefest glimmer of success is mine all mine:D.

Never downloaded tactics, no tactic beats my own!

Well its pretty simple, if you have time to formulate your own tactics then go ahead, but if you dont, down load them.

FM09 takes quite a while to figure out unless you get a little lucky. (its the toughest so far)

The only time i have downloaded tactics to help me is only on FM 2009 ... and iam also assuming that it is the same with lots of other people aswell

What tactics have you down loaded?

I agree with all - When I was younger I had all the time in the world to play this game - however I have recently turned back to cm 01/02 as it is a lot simpler/easier and quicker - I DO want a cheat tactic which lets me win 98% of games whilst scoring loads of goals - I dont want to keep changing tactics for home and away games - I want to pay £30m for a 20 year old world class striker who will score 500 goals for me in his career - I can then bask in the satisfaction of my game - I do not want to keep reloading the game to win a home game with against west brom!!!

For the people who have loads of time it must be great - but I CBA to spend 5-6 hours on a game to end up tropyles.

Dont have to change difficulty settings - just give us a guaranteed tactic so we can enjoy quickly and win things - after all its only a game.

What tactics have you down loaded?

i have only ever downloaded tylerbode tactics ... they worked well ... but the way the team plays just didnt interest me

It's always tough in the first season, as it is for any manager, you just have to put up with it. But after that it gets easier.

I think it's mostly subjective. In terms of how easy it is, a lot of people say it's TOO easy. I guess it depends what you want out of the game. Personally, I used to lose interest in saves after about 6 seasons because I was going whole seasons unbeaten - the difficulty level keeps me interested.

As for being cheated by the AI, if you mean last minute goals and "lesser" teams beating you after you've defeated Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal, it's been discussed and debunked a hundred times. One or two tactics won't t cut it any more. But that's another reason I like the game. Guess I'm just a sucker for punishment :-)

It's always tough in the first season, as it is for any manager, you just have to put up with it. But after that it gets easier.

Okay ... well i have done 13 seasons with sunderland and they very slowly improved season by season

finished 15 in the first season and by the 13 season i got them to the highest placed finish in my career ... 7th ! ... hardlys a massive climb in world football

i dont like to think iam a sore looser aswell .. i shall admit iam not exactly "good" at the game but i wouldnt think i was bad either .... to me i feel like i understood how the game works then maybe i could get more enjoyment from it

I agree that the game has got very frustrating lately to the point that this will probably be the last version I buy. Its not because I think the game is bad ( in fact I think the opposite ) it is just that I cannot and devote so much of my time trying to develop tactics using sliders that are so ambiguous that I dont think I will ever fully understand what each slider effects.

I think that at some point people have lost touch with the fact that it IS a game and should be first and foremost enjoyable for the majority. I have loved every version of CM and FM but really cannot get motivated to play this version with anything but a top half team.

I know there are many guides and tips to help people out on this forum but I dont expect to buy a game then have to spend weeks/months reading how to use the features in the game. I wouldn't expect to have to join the army to understand how to play Call of Duty so why should I have to study the intracacies of tactical theory to play Football manager? On previous versions anyone with a basic knowledge of football come put together a good enough tactic set to enjoy the game, but now it feels as though you need to hold a UEFA licience just to understand the tactical aspects of the game.

I agree that the game has got very frustrating lately to the point that this will probably be the last version I buy. Its not because I think the game is bad ( in fact I think the opposite ) it is just that I cannot and devote so much of my time trying to develop tactics using sliders that are so ambiguous that I dont think I will ever fully understand what each slider effects.

I think that at some point people have lost touch with the fact that it IS a game and should be first and foremost enjoyable for the majority. I have loved every version of CM and FM but really cannot get motivated to play this version with anything but a top half team.

I know there are many guides and tips to help people out on this forum but I dont expect to buy a game then have to spend weeks/months reading how to use the features in the game. I wouldn't expect to have to join the army to understand how to play Call of Duty so why should I have to study the intracacies of tactical theory to play Football manager? On previous versions anyone with a basic knowledge of football come put together a good enough tactic set to enjoy the game, but now it feels as though you need to hold a UEFA licience just to understand the tactical aspects of the game.

I think you have got it spot on there. It seems as though SI have gone over board on the logistics of the game. I think maybe they should look back at what made the management game so popular many years ago and revert back to the old recipie. Maybe in a couple of years time we might be seeing paul scholes taking his coaching badges using a football manager game

I think maybe they should look back at what made the management game so popular many years ago and revert back to the old recipie.

Heres hoping, I would love the feel of FM09 but with the playabilty of CM 01/02.

I think realism is all well and good but you can have too much of a good thing. Why have "realistic" player behaviour then a very generic and unrealistc player interaction option?

No one said Football Management was ever easy

the things you view as problems should be seen as challenges. tactics are probably the hardest thing for a manager in football and the harder this game is the more it appeals to me.

its hard to capture realism in match engine and i understand your view about this

selling players from smaller teams to bigger is annoying.but that whats happened steve bruce a wigan last year lol

i think that if you dont appeciate the realism in this game,its not the one for you and should ry LMA or one of them.

however there is faults in this game and the match engine is one of them

I'd like to say that I too find the game difficult, but that's how I like it! I used to play LMA when I had a console and no PC, and it was dull. Limited tactics, unenjoyable interface. I love making my training and finding a couple of youngsters who seem to respond to them well. I love the way I'm constantly tweaking my tactics; sometimes improving them, others my actions are a retrograde step.

I don't always have a great deal of time to play - some days I only manage 1 match, but I micro manage my team, and that is why FM09 suits me. The level of detail, the hours I put into making the decision as to which of the 5 or 6 players on my shortlist is the man to fill a specific gap im my team.

To sum up - I like realism. A real manager makes decisions based on careful consideration, not just a quick glance at a list of players. I want my manager game to be as in depth as it can be. I cannot foresee a level of detail which would become too much - the only drawback is if I felt my micro managing was to no avail - with FM09 this isn't the case; micro-management is - luck aside - the key to success in this challenging but rewarding sim.

SAFC1.

Can I just say that despite many people disagreeing with your opening post, it is refreshing to see you comtinuing to return and counter each point we make rather than simply throw a hissy fit.

You are not alone in how you feel and God only knows how frustrated I have felt at times. I remember inFM08 it took be 3 seasons to be able to sort out the closing down of my full-backs. I did nothing but look at that over and over and over again. In the end I realised where I was going wrong and suddenly many other facets of my tactic all clicked into place.

With FM09 it is certainly harder, but if anything I would say that it is MORE responsive rather than less reponsive and if anything the issue is that we have got so used to continue conntinue promotion that we find it hard to adjust.

You also have to remember that despite what anyone says in these forums, you are the creme de la creme. You create your own tactics, you don;t use the editor. You aren't certainly aren't looking for the short term fix if yuo have done 13 Season with Sunderland.

What I would say is that possibly, (and I am speculating here), "If you do what you have always done, then you will get what you have always got". Until you undestand where you are falling down then it is pretty hard to rectify. Now the obvious answer is to go into the T&TGF and download a tactic that has been proved to work and simply move on frm there. I however have another suggestion.

If you feel that you have had enough and can no longer batter away with Sunderland and your own designed tactics, then consider going into T&TGF and just browsing. I don't go in there myslef, (that's just me), but I know from speaking to thers that there is some quite detailed siscussion in there that might make some interesting reading. In particular I would say, when you understand how closing down works and are able to implement it effectively in your own tactic, then you will see an almost immediate improvement. I found this myself and I wouldn't dream of entering the T&TGF but thats just me. Its youe game so do what you want.

Now learning the nuances of someting as simple as closing down is not going to win you the leage, but what it might do is just propel you that litle but further up that will allow you t qualify for Europe and that will bring in more money, an increased rep and a better standard of realistic transfer targets. If I am honest with you I think you are doing pretty well and I would urge you to just plough on on your own, but if it is understanding of how the game works then th T&TGF just might be for you.

Anyway, good luck.

SAFC1.

Can I just say that despite many people disagreeing with your opening post, it is refreshing to see you comtinuing to return and counter each point we make rather than simply throw a hissy fit.

You are not alone in how you feel and God only knows how frustrated I have felt at times. I remember inFM08 it took be 3 seasons to be able to sort out the closing down of my full-backs. I did nothing but look at that over and over and over again. In the end I realised where I was going wrong and suddenly many other facets of my tactic all clicked into place.

With FM09 it is certainly harder, but if anything I would say that it is MORE responsive rather than less reponsive and if anything the issue is that we have got so used to continue conntinue promotion that we find it hard to adjust.

You also have to remember that despite what anyone says in these forums, you are the creme de la creme. You create your own tactics, you don;t use the editor. You aren't certainly aren't looking for the short term fix if yuo have done 13 Season with Sunderland.

What I would say is that possibly, (and I am speculating here), "If you do what you have always done, then you will get what you have always got". Until you undestand where you are falling down then it is pretty hard to rectify. Now the obvious answer is to go into the T&TGF and download a tactic that has been proved to work and simply move on frm there. I however have another suggestion.

If you feel that you have had enough and can no longer batter away with Sunderland and your own designed tactics, then consider going into T&TGF and just browsing. I don't go in there myslef, (that's just me), but I know from speaking to thers that there is some quite detailed siscussion in there that might make some interesting reading. In particular I would say, when you understand how closing down works and are able to implement it effectively in your own tactic, then you will see an almost immediate improvement. I found this myself and I wouldn't dream of entering the T&TGF but thats just me. Its youe game so do what you want.

Now learning the nuances of someting as simple as closing down is not going to win you the leage, but what it might do is just propel you that litle but further up that will allow you t qualify for Europe and that will bring in more money, an increased rep and a better standard of realistic transfer targets. If I am honest with you I think you are doing pretty well and I would urge you to just plough on on your own, but if it is understanding of how the game works then th T&TGF just might be for you.

Anyway, good luck.

Thanks i have took your advice and found some rather interesting information in Tactics and theoroms guide. I havnt read through it all but there are so many pages that it scares me. What also worries me that if it requires a person to know 70 pages of in-depth information then i doubt i will bother with it all simply because i dont have the time commitment due to work at the minute.

What also interests me is if the tactic and theoroms guide is all correct (and it seems to be pretty accurate considering some of the responses it has had) then would that be implemented into real life tactics? ... after all football manager is a simulation game, so it should simulate real-life tactical instructions. I cant see alex ferguson going so in-depth into tactics, where-as this game makes out that you have to do that every match.

You gotta keep going with Sunderland I am a fan so I always play as them at some point the first season is very hard I finished 15th 5 points off relegationb ut then it got alot easier. Now I have finished 7th, 5th, 4th, 2nd 3rd and then 1st for the next 6 seasons. It is possible as I am not really a tactical genious I do notice players get alot of interest in them but if you set a huge asking price then teams usually dont bid for them and if they do its for a big amount.

The key to success with Sunderland is regens scout as many places as you can and sign any that have potential to become world class, my team is full of regens and we are a very good side at the moment. It is possible so dont give up.

Try Tylerbodes or Knaps tactics they have given me the most success until I developed my own.

You gotta keep going with Sunderland I am a fan so I always play as them at some point the first season is very hard I finished 15th 5 points off relegationb ut then it got alot easier. Now I have finished 7th, 5th, 4th, 2nd 3rd and then 1st for the next 6 seasons. It is possible as I am not really a tactical genious I do notice players get alot of interest in them but if you set a huge asking price then teams usually dont bid for them and if they do its for a big amount.

The key to success with Sunderland is regens scout as many places as you can and sign any that have potential to become world class, my team is full of regens and we are a very good side at the moment. It is possible so dont give up.

Try Tylerbodes or Knaps tactics they have given me the most success until I developed my own.

Ahh okay .. just by curiosity .. what formation do you play ?

because i played a 4-5-1 ... as cisse was the only decent striker and jones was injured for the first 4 month , i thought this would have been my best bet

I used a 4-4-2, there are a few cheap strikers that can get a few goals in the first season. Try Kevin Doyle I used Doyle and Cisse upfront, Kenwyne is rubbish on the game.

That is why I did well getting all that money in the second season meant I could bring in some very good players.

I used a 4-4-2, there are a few cheap strikers that can get a few goals in the first season. Try Kevin Doyle I used Doyle and Cisse upfront, Kenwyne is rubbish on the game.

That is why I did well getting all that money in the second season meant I could bring in some very good players.

youve made some good signings ... however iam using the 9.0.3 patch atm ... and although i do find kenwyne's stats rubbish ... he always manages to get a decent amount of goals ... i think its because his phyisical stats are quite high

I disagree entirely with all three points in the OP.

1. The game is not too hard. In fact, it is not hard enough.

2. That's because your tactics are wrong

3. That can happen IRL with the right clubs.

I disagree entirely with all three points in the OP.

1. The game is not too hard. In fact, it is not hard enough.

2. That's because your tactics are wrong

3. That can happen IRL with the right clubs.

I just knew some'one would say them points .... its fair enough that you dont think the game is very hard

but some people do ... and how do you know if my tactics are wrong ? ... you know nothing about my squad of players or my managment style ! ... and i know it can happen in real life

but the fact that most of the time iam pretty much forced into a desicion ... then when i sell him i cant really find and exact replacement for him

I do understand your frustrations I didnt like the game much at all when I started but it does get easier as time goes on. The money you get in the 2nd season is far more than the first season you can get decent players and build the team up.

Do you find the game hard with other teams aswell?

I do understand your frustrations I didnt like the game much at all when I started but it does get easier as time goes on. The money you get in the 2nd season is far more than the first season you can get decent players and build the team up.

Do you find the game hard with other teams aswell?

well actually i did find it quite hard ... but not as hard as i did with sunderland ... i started off with everton before ... they have a good squad of players ... but i just couldnt realy get them going ... i would have a good run of around 3-5 games then completly do the opposite then lose the majority of the next 5 games after that

iam going to give the game another shot and report back in a day or two. With the information i have gained hopefully i can improve at this

FM2009 is the greatest FM game. I don't think it's as hard as some say it is, but it's not really easy either. The difficulty balance is more or less perfect for me.

Being frustrated is part of playing computer games. I get frustrated at every game at some point whether it be FM or something like Call of Duty.

Oh, and the AI doesn't cheat. Yes they maybe do have some luck sometimes, but the human player also gets lucky. I've never once believe the AI has any sort of deliberate advantage over me.

I agree with you that at times the games just screw you over (3 goals disallowed for offside, 1 for a foul, 1 pen denied, lose 2-1...) but I'd rather really have to work for success than just get it. For example, I play FIFA as well and within a few days(10-12) you can win by 3 goals or more most games on the highest level and go on 45 game winning streaks without blinking. It get boring and unrewarding. When I finally win a league title with Chelsea it shall feel so much better than my unbeaten season on FIFA (38 won, 167 scored, 4 conceded). Hang in there man, it'll be worth it.

if not being good at a game is your reason to come in here and say these are rthe things i dont like about the game, then fair enough.

1 season out of about 30 ive played with different teams in 3 country's on about 5 different games was crap, that was my first season on the game with man u . i didnt know **** about the new tactiks formations players teamtalks press. but after a while you get used to it.

complaining that you go on losing streaks and cant seem to get your players to play is just the way football is. take the last prem season in real life. man u went top around christmass after liverpool had a ***** november and couldn't beat teams at home like west ham or hull etc etc... find a tacktic stick to it. dont change it everytime you have a bad result. and stop complaining about the game its ace. your just not good at it.

you remind me a my mate who introduced me to champ. some years later he says fm is a **** game and for loser's. he only says that coz he aint no good at it. he cant win with any team ,and i can win with any so he calls it ****....he calls it **** yet he keeps buying the game every year.