Idea : Players being worse or better than expected

About players attributes what I would like to see is an idea from FIFA manager.

When you signed a player to could be a bit better or worse than expected.

For example we sign a 28 year old player for our club. Our scouts with poor judging stats might not get his stats correct. And when he joins the club and starts training we realise he is not as good as our scout though and he losses a few points here and there.

Same if we sign a 18 year old. He turns out to be a bit better than expected and gains a few points

Would make signing players more fun.

Imaging landing a undiscovered young player who is a good bit better than any one knew. It would be a showing of your judging player potential and how good your scouts are.

This could happen for varies reasons.

Players suffering an injury before they join.

Or enjoying a great run of form for their current club.

I had the exact same Idea but I realized that it'd be hard to implement under the CA/PA system that FM have running.

edited because it was a daft idea

Well they are all really good ideas, and could be something that should be discussed further I think.

I don't think PA should drop. A player can reach a high level of quality even after being released by a big club.

Potential is always there developing it depends on the circumstances like training facilities, proper guidance, level of play - much like SI have it set up now.

good point, will just go with my main idea then

I was thinking it can be incorporated in the scouting system. I suggested this in another thread about stars but this'll be much better if implemented.

When scouts unmask unknown players, the scouts come back with what they believe are his attributes. It's not until you scout them several times til you get the proper attributes. So basically after scouting whoever for 3 matches you notice that his finishing isn't as good as the initial report or much better..

Same could be applied for trials. You don't get a good idea of the player til after a few days of training.

PA shouldnt be club dependant. Many players can start out at smaller clubs & have a high PA. Otherwise it would be biased.

Think in real life, How many great youths have Chelsea brought through?

Then think of Shrewbury(Joe Hart) Aswell as a lower reputation club West Ham (to Chelsea) who brought through the likes of Sears Lampard Joe Cole Etc Etc.

Sorry guys but isn't this already in FM?

There has been plenty of times my scouts (even with 20 ratings on Judging) have told me "will be a leading premier league attacking midfielder in the future", only for me not to train him right and his career going down the tubes.

In my long term game players form and attributes are constantly changing for better and worse depending on form/injuries/happiness/training...

And believe me I've sign a good few Rafeal Scheidt's and Adrianos in my time....

nope dont think it is, obviously the stats will drop over time and increase but we are on about a drop or increase after we see how the do in the 1st week at the club

Eg our coaches saying they where better or worse than expected, and then the player could get a small bonus or penalty to their stats

Yeah that pretty much has happened to me already....

Example: Salvatore Foti. Scouts said he would be amazing... His stats before signing were up there... I signed him... Aged 23... his stats declined rapidly until he was 26... he scored about 7 goals in his three seasons at my very successful Celtic side (i.e. at the same time Frederico Laurito was firing in 30+ a season) and I got shot of him after 3 seasons....

Now my scouts (20 ratings for judging) we SURE he'd be great....

we aren't talking about long term imporvments here.

But we will take Foti as an example.

You find him and think to yourself, he has potential.

You scout him, you are told he will be great for your side.

You sign him.

He trains for the first time, the coaches get a good look at the new player.

And then you get told in your mail that he isn't the player they expected him to be. "Your Assistant manager informs you that Foti isn't as good as we anticipated"

He losed some current ability.

Did you read my post?

I'd like the scouts to get his attributes a little wrong. Be one or two off in a few as opposed to him actually dropping or gaining if you know what I mean. That's unless he's been scouted for a while.

Say you see a striker who's on form for his club scoring 4 in the last 3 appearances. The scout comes back with 17 for finishing when really it's more like 15.

Right now a scout report can give you his proper stats which I think would be hard to get from a player who before this report was unknown to your club.

Yes, how else would I have been able to talk Foti as an example.

But your example was over a period of 3 years. Could have been impacted by an injury?.

I'd like the scouts to get his attributes a little wrong. Be one or two off in a few as opposed to him actually dropping or gaining if you know what I mean. That's unless he's been scouted for a while.

Say you see a striker who's on form for his club scoring 4 in the last 3 appearances. The scout comes back with 17 for finishing when really it's more like 15.

Right now a scout report can give you his proper stats which I think would be hard to get from a player who before this report was unknown to your club.

Exactly, this is what I mean, just worded better

Exactly, this is what I mean, just worded better

I see what you mean... So the scout may get an inflated idea of a players stats because he scouted him during a good spell of form...

For example a scout watching Liverpool a few seasons back may have given Crouch a technique rating of 20 simply coz he scored that overhead kick... but in reality... his day-in-day-out technique is more around the 12-14 mark...

I get it...

Exactly forkoid and it doesn't necessarily have to be inflated it can be harsh too if the player is going through a bad spell.

Hmm, this is sounding like a good idea I think. I like how it doesn't have to inflated like you say, it can be bad if they are playing bad.

This is one of the features from FIFA manager I liked.

It is one of those features that could make the transfer market your friend or enemy. It also makes the manager more careful/risk taking at transfers.

This kind of feature can be great, especially if you get a flop player, you know why he is a flop, because he wasn't as good as expected.

Could also add a managers attribut to do with transfers, ranging from VeryCareful all the way to Very risky.

I agree with this idea.

Scouts can get potential ability wrong, but once they unmask the players current stats, it's plain for you to see. Maybe poorer scouts could judge players based on a mixture of form/attributes whereas better scouts will spend more time judging players to better evaluate their exact attributes.

yes this is what I mean just poorly worded from me because im still tired.

Like the idea of an transfer attribute for the manger.

It would also encourage you to mayby pop into a game or two to analyze the player themselfs.

We could have a judging player potential and current abilities ourselfs.

I think the sort of thing you're talking about already exists, just not in the way you're describing it. Scouts tell us what level they think a player is at and what level he'll reach with the 1-7 star ratings. Also, it's only after more extensive scouting that you can accurately determine the hidden attributes.

I've signed quite a few players who looked good and should have developed well but their attitude or hidden attributes meant they weren't as good as theys hould have been.

I see the player's attributes as being the sort of things that are fairly easy for scouts to determine (though worse scouts will take longer to actually determine all those attributes) so I don't think your idea fits in with that view. I think there are enough other variables to consider that the current system works quite well.

I like this idea. It would make scouting much more important than what it is now. Also it would be realistic if some attributes were harder for scouts to get right. For example, you don't have to be genius to see that Walcott is actually quite fast however it would probably be much harder to get some other attributes right (teamwork, decisions, etc) at first sight.

the only problem with this idea is that the computer would know his true attributes so AI clubs wouldnt have this same problem and would always know how good he was.

It happens from one FM to another. A player can be really good in one FM but after having a bad season he loses a lot of CA points when the new one comes out.

The potential system is good I think but still this could be implemented to make it more like it is IRL. There have been many cases IRL where a player has been bought because of a very impressive season but never really lives up to the hype. All of a sudden you realize he's not as good a finisher as you thought, isn't as composed and so on...

I'd say having both would be nice but not by any means necessary. It just adds an extra dimension when buying someone. Did he just have a really good season or is he that good? Is he a terrible buy or will he do better under me? kind of thing.

the only problem with this idea is that the computer would know his true attributes so AI clubs wouldnt have this same problem and would always know how good he was.

Erm, not necessary. You don't think SI could implement it so that AI gets false information too?

players dont just lose current ability by changing clubs. a better idea would be that you couldnt see the attributes of other teams players but your scout will give you attributes that may be correct or not.

players dont just lose current ability by changing clubs. a better idea would be that you couldnt see the attributes of other teams players but your scout will give you attributes that may be correct or not.

thats what we want.

and they would adjust as he joined the club to the correct values

It should only be implemented if you use attribute masking IMO, and even then, you're treading on difficult ground. How about if you simply don't unlock all attributes?

Bad scouts unlock some of the attributes right now.

I know. My point being, in that situation, could they actually get some of those they unlock wrong? Or the player judgement even further wrong?

Sorry if that wasn't clear

Oh sorry that should've been easy to figure out my mind was somewhere else.

That's a good point I suppose but I guess the answer is yes. To get a really good idea of how good a player is the scout has to scout him for the full 3 matches. The unmasked attributes can and should be wrong. The idea is scouts can say a person is this good at finishing but they might have seen him play on one of those freakish can't do no wrong days.

Right now I can get the full picture by asking the scout to give me a report on two consecutive days which means in 2 days I can find out exactly how good a player is. I don't have to actually send my scout off to see a player play to unmask all his attributes.

Like I said it adds an extra element to the game. It makes delving into the transfer market a risk like it is in real life.

I'm in

sounds like a good idea, aslong as its not for every single player! The better, more established players should be left alone.

Yeah they should. Players with reputation set as worldwide should be known worldwide, continental players if you're part of the continent and national players if you are in the same nation and so on...

It probably won't get added at any point though so I guess it's a non-starter.