Start a game with FC Bayern - What a joke

Has anyone started with them since 9.3.0? I just played six months and without doing anything out of the ordinary I have almost gone into administration and they are selling all the players in the first January transfer window.

Something is seriously screwed up with the way their finances are set when the game I started. It seems that they almost start with a minus bank balance because of the timing of sponsporship payouts and what not...

Also they have 6 guys making more than 100K/week? Is that right? Sounds really high to me.

Anyways....thought I would rant and see if anyone else had seen this. I am on January 1st 2008 with a -28 million bank balance without spending any money....What a waste of time.

Has anyone started with them since 9.3.0? I just played six months and without doing anything out of the ordinary I have almost gone into administration and they are selling all the players in the first January transfer window.

Something is seriously screwed up with the way their finances are set when the game I started. It seems that they almost start with a minus bank balance because of the timing of sponsporship payouts and what not...

Also they have 6 guys making more than 100K/week? Is that right? Sounds really high to me.

Anyways....thought I would rant and see if anyone else had seen this. I am on January 1st 2008 with a -28 million bank balance without spending any money....What a waste of time.

It's been brought up probably dozens of times before, but the Bayern researcher who creates the data for the team is pretty adamant that he's replicated their wage structure accurately.

I've no idea how much the likes of Toni, Ribery, Klose and Lucio are earning in real life, but i'd imagine that they're on high wages anyway to be attracted to or stay in the German league.

It's pretty good advice to dump most of those with the exception of Ribery anyway. Lucio is ageing fast and has lapses of concentration and theres better all round forwards than Klose and Toni. Selling those 3 alone will save you £300k a week, £15mill a year!

have a feeling its something to do with the Bundersleague as i quickly losing money with Wolfsburg despite still being in all competitions and having an average wage of £12,000

also i have my 1st 11 players and another 8 players in the 1st team squad, 5 players left in my U23s and your usual yearly intake in my U19s

Yeah silly wages. Alot of them aint worth it. Aint Van Bommel on 100 odd grand?

How does Bayern's turnover in game compare to that of the team in real-life? It's a financial powerhouse in real life, and if the wages are accurate then that leaves what has been missed out on the income side?

Define financial powerhouse Zebedee77? Perhaps a powerhouse in comparison with other German teams but on the worldwide stage not quite a financial powerhouse as such.

I thought they were paying fortunes out for that big new shiny stadium? Also, not sure how true, but Ribery, Toni, and Klose are on a reported 130,000 a week!

Define financial powerhouse Zebedee77? Perhaps a powerhouse in comparison with other German teams but on the worldwide stage not quite a financial powerhouse as such.

Bayern's turnover was 287 million Euros (£251 million) last year Hopey (edit:2007/08 figures) and made an operating profit of 42 million Euros (£36 million). I know the pound has slumped a bit over the past year, but obviously we're talking about a European wide market and current conditions. Just to give an indication of how big Bayern are, their latest figures are very similar to Manchester United's (in overall terms) from a couple of years back. They turnover twice as much as any other club in Germany, and are usually in the top 5 European clubs in financial terms.

Debt on their stadium is currently only 47 million Euros as much was written off.

Define financial powerhouse Zebedee77? Perhaps a powerhouse in comparison with other German teams but on the worldwide stage not quite a financial powerhouse as such.

4th highest Revenue in world football in 2007-2008, up from 7th and 8th in previous seasons

I think Bayerns finances in the game are probably accurate as of 2008, but their loan payments & player wages are killing their financial health in the game.

Looking at the Editor i've gathered that:

A loan of £310mill over 224 months with an interest rate of 8.4% (which i've seen used on Man Utd loans) means

£32.4mill per year

Adding up the wages for the majority of the first team squad brings me to at least £88mill per year.

Assuming they have 38,000 season ticket holders and 64,000 average attendance, thats ((64,000-38,000)*£31)*19 (league games) = £15mill from Gate receipts over a league season. Assuming at least 6 group+ round matches in the CL and 3/4 cup games at home, thats 10*64,000*31 getting us an additional £19million, bringing a total Gate Receipts of £34mil per year

So you can see.... the Loan payments alone are barely covered by the Gate Receipts.

Theres a massive shortfall of £88million to make up to pay the wages.

Luckily, at the start of the new season, you're brought back to health again with an injection of more than £66mill of Sponsorship money (but beware, the AI renews these deals for FAR less than they start at) and of course, Season Ticket money at 38,000*504 giving £19million for the new season.

Then of course theres TV Revenues and Merchandise and Prize money to add into that through the season (around £35million but more if you're successfull)

Effectively, Bayern in the game are flirting with monthly losses because of the massive wages & loans, but brought back to good health in the Summer, only to fall back into losses during the season. If you want to stop this yo-yo cycle, you really need to cut the high earners.

Bayern's turnover was 287 million Euros (£251 million) last year Hopey (edit:2007/08 figures) and made an operating profit of 42 million Euros (£36 million). I know the pound has slumped a bit over the past year, but obviously we're talking about a European wide market and current conditions. Just to give an indication of how big Bayern are, their latest figures are very similar to Manchester United's (in overall terms) from a couple of years back. They turnover twice as much as any other club in Germany, and are usually in the top 5 European clubs in financial terms.

Debt on their stadium is currently only 47 million Euros as much was written off.

Wasn't really debating Bayern aren't a big club, simply asking how you define a financial powerhouse. I know Bayern generated a fair amount of money I was just curious as to how you define them being a powerhouse financially.

Should have probably worded my original post better to be fair.

Wasn't really debating Bayern aren't a big club, simply asking how you define a financial powerhouse. I know Bayern generated a fair amount of money I was just curious as to how you define them being a powerhouse financially.

Should have probably worded my original post better to be fair.

Fair enough - not unusual for me to misinterpret something either. Turnover generated at that level is pretty much how I'd define a club as a financial powerhouse.

So why is the OP in trouble by January of the first season? I always enable first season transfer budgets because I noticed (under 9.2, and previous versions of game, not tested under 9.3) that without this, you don't seem to get the sponsorship money which in Bayern's case I guess would be critical... Is there a case for always having sponsorship paid in the first season whether transfer budgets are enabled or not?

Fair enough - not unusual for me to misinterpret something either. Turnover generated at that level is pretty much how I'd define a club as a financial powerhouse.

So why is the OP in trouble by January of the first season? I always enable first season transfer budgets because I noticed (under 9.2, and previous versions of game, not tested under 9.3) that without this, you don't seem to get the sponsorship money which in Bayern's case I guess would be critical... Is there a case for always having sponsorship paid in the first season whether transfer budgets are enabled or not?

The OP is in trouble, because he's losing money hand over fist. I've never noticed a scenario where i don't receive Sponsorship though! perhaps Season start date has an effect.

With over £120mill expended throughout the season and only around £60-70mill as income throughout the season, he's having to wait until June/July of every new season to see any of the £80-90mill generated by Sponsorship and Season Tickets and bring his balance back into a healthy state.

It's a simple fact of life with Bayern. Unless you slash your wages considerably, you'll be in trouble until you're saved in the summer. And the cycle repeats.

Well it would be nice if this game could depict the situation at bayern accurately. Last time I checked they didn't go into administration in real life during January 2009 like they do every time in this game. They are unplayable in this game, unless you want to play with them in the unrealistic manner of selling all their best players. If they don't have to do it in real life.....then why do I have to do it in this game?

Well it would be nice if this game could depict the situation at bayern accurately. Last time I checked they didn't go into administration in real life during January 2009 like they do every time in this game. They are unplayable in this game, unless you want to play with them in the unrealistic manner of selling all their best players. If they don't have to do it in real life.....then why do I have to do it in this game?

Because the debt situation in FM isn't even anywhere similar to real life.

Bayerns banks know that they're good for the money in real life, they generate huge revenues at certain times of the year and they're a great brand to be associated with.

Think of how many clubs are in debt in real life and how many of these are close to collapse in FM monetary terms? Yet in everyday life, the banks know that they'll get their money back if the clubs go into their overdraft facilities or have to lend money. Season Ticket sales and TV Revenue and Gate Receipts are often used by clubs in real life as a means of securing loans and accounts.

If Bayern go £50mill into the red in FM, you and me both know that in June/July you'll receive Season Tickets and Sponsorship money and probably pull into the black. Yet FM just sees the -50mill defecit and calls in the adminstrators and declares you bankrupt. In real life, banks know you'll get your income at these times too and they'll respond in kind.

It's a situation that needs rectifying, because it'll just occur again in FM10 as long as Bayern keep attracting ridiculous overpaid stars

The OP is in trouble, because he's losing money hand over fist. I've never noticed a scenario where i don't receive Sponsorship though! perhaps Season start date has an effect.

With over £120mill expended throughout the season and only around £60-70mill as income throughout the season, he's having to wait until June/July of every new season to see any of the £80-90mill generated by Sponsorship and Season Tickets and bring his balance back into a healthy state.

It's a simple fact of life with Bayern. Unless you slash your wages considerably, you'll be in trouble until you're saved in the summer. And the cycle repeats.

That's what I mean though - the first summer's sponsorship should be sufficient to prevent building up 50 million quid in debts by January when you've still got cash coming in from other sources in addition.

eg £80 million in summer - running costs (c. £10 million per month) + income (c.£7 million per month) = £-50 million in January?! It just doesn't add up unless that initial summer money isn't coming in?

In real life Bayern are one of the richest clubs in the world not to mention the fact that they have no debt.

Because the debt situation in FM isn't even anywhere similar to real life.

Bayerns banks know that they're good for the money in real life, they generate huge revenues at certain times of the year and they're a great brand to be associated with.

Think of how many clubs are in debt in real life and how many of these are close to collapse in FM monetary terms? Yet in everyday life, the banks know that they'll get their money back if the clubs go into their overdraft facilities or have to lend money. Season Ticket sales and TV Revenue and Gate Receipts are often used by clubs in real life as a means of securing loans and accounts.

If Bayern go £50mill into the red in FM, you and me both know that in June/July you'll receive Season Tickets and Sponsorship money and probably pull into the black. Yet FM just sees the -50mill defecit and calls in the adminstrators and declares you bankrupt. In real life, banks know you'll get your income at these times too and they'll respond in kind.

It's a situation that needs rectifying, because it'll just occur again in FM10 as long as Bayern keep attracting ridiculous overpaid stars

Had the same with Newcastle. Planned out all of my future transfer revenues with 24 month sales and knew I'd be pulling in profits every month based on expected income/expenditure and would be back in black within 8 or 9 months. But the game put me in administration and docked me 9 points which cost me CL football.

As expected I was back in positive by March (after going red with transfers in August) without having to sell any players. Infuriated doesn't come close

From what I read, German clubs have the healthiest financial.

In real life Bayern are one of the richest clubs in the world not to mention the fact that they have no debt.

They have debt on the game though don't they? :confused:

Worth bearing in mind that the OP is looking at the wages in pound sterling, which has taken a hell of a dive against the euro.

I wouldn't say it's a waste of time starting a game with Bayern, although the financial "problems" doesn't give you many possibilities to act. I'm in February 2010 in my Bayern save and I haven't sold any of the high wage players (except Ribery, my chairman sold him for 34 million € to Inter)! And the balance is getting better now. I think it's an interesting challenge for everybody who wants to start a game without sugar daddy or high income, from bottom to the top, lol!

Btw wages, sponsorship etc. are accurately, except the merchandise income is much too low!!!

I've been playing as FC Bayern. (Been using 9.2 so I dunno if it makes a factor). I've played it 3 ways.

1) Without making any new major signings. Went in the red really really quick but the board and bank knew I would be good for it and as soon as the season ended I was back in the black.

2) Revamped the club completely. The board did me a favor and did a debt restructure. I ended up only with $5million of loan debt. I dunno what was the rationale (German gov't bailout? lol) but it eased the money issue a lot. I just found it completely unrealistic so I then I ended it after a couple of seasons.

3) Revamped the club completely but without a debt restructure. Debt didn't even make an issue though. Cause I was just completely rolling. Winning the German Division for almost 10 years now. The TV revenue and prize money is not as large as the rest of europe but in RL the Bundesliga is the most profitable league. Having a controlled wage budget and pulling a Wenger made me the richest club in the world though not as much if I did the same with Real Madrid. About 5 years or so in a few of the players get restless/bored so I need to revamp again. After that 10 years in I'm due for another revamp because of age so I'm buying experienced and young players so I can just seamlessly keep rolling.

All in all. Just revamp the entire squad ASAP. Wage budget is what kills you not the less revenue in Germany. FC Bayern dominates in Germany. FC Bayern ends up having guaranteed league money while those in Spain, England and Italy do not. But this is a double edged sworded. As I need to revamp the squad because I haven't won the Champions League in a few years and I cannot really assist my current players. Even though they are old or young and inexperienced they still dominate Germany for years on end. And all I have is about 5-10 games in the CL they get per year. So I need to start basing how they are with that. Guess that was one of Lyon's problem as well.

So its a trade off. In England and Italy and even Spain you have more competition to make you grow but less likely to win. But when you do win it is more cash. So it becomes do you want to be a King among peasants or a King among Kings.

Also please do note the finances in this game is not the main focus and are EXTREMELY weak when compared to FIFA Manager 09 or heck even just FIFA 09. This game is more tactics so the finances is off at times like with merchandising.

Basically, DerMef is adamant that he must use gross wages, while the game's financial system is made to work well with net wages.

I understand where he's coming from, but his compromise for realism is actually making Bayern very unrealistic

Thus Bayern's salaries should be approximately half of what they are...