17 Years Old too early to start my keeper in the frist team?

*argh - frist = first

I have this up & coming superstar who will be turning 18 years old for the next season. He already ranks 3 stars (which is average/above average level of keepers in my league) with 5 star potential (which puts him at par with Guillermo Ochoa, for reference.)

My current keeper is a really good keeper (4 stars) who just turned 34 - he still has years left, however he is the second highest earner on my team & I am running at a defecit. My goal over this off-season is to try and reign in my finances and shed some financial obligations.

So - I was thinking that I could sell my old keeper (lots of teams are interested: Milan, Inter, Sao Paulo) and cash in on his spectacular year while offloading his wage bill and start my youth keeper who is earning 10% of what the other keeper was making.

I have a really strong defence, so I feel secure in gambling that he won't be too overwhelmed. Any advice? Long-term impact on my keepers development?

go for it tie the younger keeper down to a real long contract and if his stats are good then start him

I'd definitely give the youngster a go, especially if you've got a good defence. Should be beneficial for him.

Personally id stink him out on loan but a first team run can be hugely beneficial for the player. However, i do advise to ease him into the role.

If he is ggod enough, he is old enough. Would be OK for a keeper but less good for an outfield player.

Cross your finger for this seasons and your 18 years old keeper will be the best keeper in the league next seasons. 17 years old with lot of match experience. You can't ask for something better

Personally id stink him out on loan but a first team run can be hugely beneficial for the player. However, i do advise to ease him into the role.

The reason one send a youngster out on loan is so he can get some first team game experience that he won't otherwise get at the club. If that experience is available at the higher level parent club, keep him and play him there.

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'll be selling the old man tonight!

If he is good enough, he is old enough. Would be OK for a keeper but less good for an outfield player.

At what age/ability do you typically break in the outfield players?

If he is ggod enough, he is old enough. Would be OK for a keeper but less good for an outfield player.

exactly what i was going to say.

you could also keep your current number 1 and just play the younger keeper in cup matches and the odd unimportant league game.

i got a youth team keeper too, 17, potential to be better than Silviu Lung Jr, 6 star potential, but if i want fast development should I loan him out to a team and hope he gets playing time for a year, or would 10 matches in a year be enough for him, because as he his it makes no sense to give him loads of time over silviu lung jr

i got a youth team keeper too, 17, potential to be better than Silviu Lung Jr, 6 star potential, but if i want fast development should I loan him out to a team and hope he gets playing time for a year, or would 10 matches in a year be enough for him, because as he his it makes no sense to give him loads of time over silviu lung jr

probably be best to send him out on loan where he will more than likely play more games and get vital league expeirence.

you could also play him in cup games

Good enough hes old enough

I am a firm believer in playing players as often as you are happy to do so as early as possible.

As long as you don't overdo it they tend to improve far far quicker if they play a lot of first team matches.

For example in my current game I bought a decent 17 year old DMC for my Sunderland team.

He was nowhere near the best DMC in my squad however because he had 20 for natural fitness and 18 for stamina I have played him in every single match this season and his value is about 5 times the price I paid for him (£9 million now, I paid £1.75 million) and is the best DMC in my squad after only 1 season.

be careful of burning out players by playing them too young. Sometimes it works as mackemforever has found out but other times they don't reach their potential.

GKs may be slightly different as playing as GK is not as physically demanding (in terms of condition % drop) but it may be based on number of games rather than condition.

Personally? I'd loan him out for at least 2 years.

(In re: to mackemforever) The flip side of that is you risk running into the "Feeling the Pressure of Public Expectation" concern; ruining his confidence; or ruining some of his "hidden attributes" such as Consistency and Important Matches.

In my experience, you're best off easing a player into the starting rotation over three to four seasons - you get all the growth without risking catastrophic harm to his development.

For example, for this GK, you might opt for something like:

At 17 - pick the 33% of your matches that are "easiest" - Cup matches against lower division teams, home ties against weaker clubs, etc - and start him for those, while starting the 34-year-old in the "pressure cooker" games. Set up a tutoring link between him and your 34-year-old.

At 18 - pick about 50-55% of your matches, and start him, keeping the overall pressure low by preferring home matches and matches you are favoured in. For this season, you might sell your 34-year-old with the "End of Season" date rather than "Immediate".

At 19 - give the youngster a solid 67-75% of the matches, including the toughest away games. He's now your starter officially, however, you want to bring in an aging (35+) "Professional" attitude goalkeeper on a Bosman with a two-year-contract, who can step in if the kid hits a run of poor form. That way you don't sacrifice results for the kid.

At 20 - the kid starts 95%-plus of your matches. The veteran starts your Reserve matches and is available in case of injury, but you hope you never use him. The next hot young keeper in your youth system starts the other 5%, predominantly Cup games against lower-division opponents or games made meaningless by other results.

(The other alternative is to advance that all by one year, and send the kid out on loan for the year he's 17.)

I'd would say ease him in slowly. If you sell the Older keeper you should be able to get a good goalkeeper to replace him on less wages, whilst keeping the 17 year old to rotate in and out.

In my Man Utd game I used Rafael, Fabio, Fleck and Welbeck. In about 10-14 games first season and next season raised it to about 20-25. All have shown development, although Saivet really struggled.

I have a 15-year-old playing for me.

you wont get much cash for goalies despite interest from big clubs. 10M tops!

(In re: to mackemforever) The flip side of that is you risk running into the "Feeling the Pressure of Public Expectation" concern; ruining his confidence; or ruining some of his "hidden attributes" such as Consistency and Important Matches.

In my experience, you're best off easing a player into the starting rotation over three to four seasons - you get all the growth without risking catastrophic harm to his development.

For example, for this GK, you might opt for something like:

At 17 - pick the 33% of your matches that are "easiest" - Cup matches against lower division teams, home ties against weaker clubs, etc - and start him for those, while starting the 34-year-old in the "pressure cooker" games. Set up a tutoring link between him and your 34-year-old.

At 18 - pick about 50-55% of your matches, and start him, keeping the overall pressure low by preferring home matches and matches you are favoured in. For this season, you might sell your 34-year-old with the "End of Season" date rather than "Immediate".

At 19 - give the youngster a solid 67-75% of the matches, including the toughest away games. He's now your starter officially, however, you want to bring in an aging (35+) "Professional" attitude goalkeeper on a Bosman with a two-year-contract, who can step in if the kid hits a run of poor form. That way you don't sacrifice results for the kid.

At 20 - the kid starts 95%-plus of your matches. The veteran starts your Reserve matches and is available in case of injury, but you hope you never use him. The next hot young keeper in your youth system starts the other 5%, predominantly Cup games against lower-division opponents or games made meaningless by other results.

(The other alternative is to advance that all by one year, and send the kid out on loan for the year he's 17.)

This is pretty much what prompted me to ask. I remember someone telling a story - I believe it was you, Amaroq - about a player who was destined for greatness that was pressed too early to perform and never reached his potential. I wondered if keepers had the same problem.

This keeper arrived to me through my youth academy and was 16. I immediately started tutoring him with my 'Resilient' 34 y/o keeper as soon as the option presented itself - 'he learned a little'.

He has been my reserve team keeper for the last full year and has played between 6 - 8 significant matches this year (tournament matches & 2 league games). His average rating is 7.05 +/-. He has a 'Fairly Loyal' personality at the moment.

I was sure of my actions until you posted!

you wont get much cash for goalies despite interest from big clubs. 10M tops!

Ha. 10 M is my entire years transfer budget, so that would be great! I picked him up for $2.2 M and he is currently valued at 4 M after Conceding 27 in 40 Games, scoring 5 goals, assisting 9 and keeping an average 7.35 (+/-) rating.

how did you get your keeper to score 5 goals?

I had a good English keeper in a long term 09 save, and because I couldn't find a decent experienced keeper - I decided to play him as my #1. Four years later he was also the England #1. His attributes weren't world class but he performed brilliantly for me, so it can work.

how did you get your keeper to score 5 goals?

He's a Free Kick master (19 Free Kicks, 18 Decisions & Composure, etc.) so I set him to take most of them. He's scored 5 times off DFKs and assisted on the IFKs. A bit risky having him run all the way forward to perform them, but it hasn't backfired yet. (almost once, but the opponents kick from center hit the crossbar -)

He also had the game winning Penalty Shot in the Cup Final! He was the 4th one to take the shot... won 5 - 3 in shots!

This is pretty much what prompted me to ask. I remember someone telling a story - I believe it was you, Amaroq - about a player who was destined for greatness that was pressed too early to perform and never reached his potential. I wondered if keepers had the same problem.

This keeper arrived to me through my youth academy and was 16. I immediately started tutoring him with my 'Resilient' 34 y/o keeper as soon as the option presented itself - 'he learned a little'.

He has been my reserve team keeper for the last full year and has played between 6 - 8 significant matches this year (tournament matches & 2 league games). His average rating is 7.05 +/-. He has a 'Fairly Loyal' personality at the moment.

I was sure of my actions until you posted!

Haha! Yeah, that was me, I've certainly burned out a couple youths by asking too much of them too early. I think its a bigger problem when you're a top EPL side, for example; I've not burned anybody out while working up from the depths of LLM even playing 16 and 17 year olds. My example answer was certainly calibrated to "Top-four EPL side", not "Mid-table League 2 side".

It sounds like you're on the right track, TBH - reserves plus 6-8 matches including 2 league games is the season I'd put immediately before the starting point I listed, or before sending him out for a full-season loan to the Championship (assuming EPL club). Its the "5%" that I referred to in the "Age 20" line.

. . .

One important thing to note is, this is going to differ fairly vastly from player to player. Some players are ready to start moving into the first team at age 17 as described .. others really won't be ready until they're 19 or 20.

"If he's good enough, he's old enough" sounds trite, but its actually very good advice, as long as you don't expect too much from the player.

I mean, there's a big difference in pressure between the Champions League final and Man U's next home tie against Burnley; as long as you remember that, and pick your spots accordingly, you'll do fine.

Re: keepers specifically, I've had a 19-year-old start for me in European play, but I did "blood" him as described above beforehand.

Thanks for all the great advice! I liked hearing that a 15 year old is playing for you Cheesyman99. (Welcome to the forums!)

So, to sum it up: I'm going to tutor the youth again for the remainder of this season and try and get him to Fairly Professional or better. Then transfer the seasoned keeper so he can enjoy some fine European culture before he retires. Use the surplus funds to help ease the debts I've created this season and hire on a cheap 'vet' to man the Reserve team.

Exciting next season ahead. Doubt I'll repeat as League winner unless his stats sky rocket, but the future bodes well!

I had a good English keeper in a long term 09 save, and because I couldn't find a decent experienced keeper - I decided to play him as my #1. Four years later he was also the England #1. His attributes weren't world class but he performed brilliantly for me, so it can work.

I had the same. I had a 16 year old come through my youth system who my coaches thought had great potential but didn't look fantastic. I threw him in at 16 in our debut season in the Premier League where he did fairly well.

He wasn't anything special but I couldn't find any better so I stuck with him. For years he just looked the same but suddenly in his early 20s he made the England team and his value started rocketing. Seems like it just took ages to see an improvement in him.

I would look to Loan the youngen first and if not just give him the cup games.

Wait untill your older keeper is 36-37 then let him go and give your young gun a shot at 20-21

It really depends. If you can find a loan club, then consider that - but I'd be willing to take a risk. Or simply rotate the goalkeepers.

With goalkeepers, it's not actually too bad an idea if you have a good defence, although a bad goalkeeper can stick out like a sore thumb. However, the long-term benefits can be awesome.

My current number one turned 17 one day and signed professional forms (through a pre-contract). In the summer, a struggling and bankrupt Villarreal charged after him and wanted to take him on loan as a key player and they only had an aging goalkeeper (I think it was Germán Lux). Lux was slightly better but he was 36 or something and steadily getting worse. So I took a bit of a gamble and accepted. Initially, he got no games but eventually a new round of red arrows meant my goalkeeper eventually started a game, and finished the season with 57 goals conceded, 8 clean sheets and 2 Man of the Match awards and an average rating of 6.89. Not terribly good statistics until you factor in that Villarreal were horrible in just about every department. My goalkeeper got several ratings of 6 - not because he was rubbish, but because Villarreal couldn't defend and every time they lost they lost by 4-5 goals. However, I don't think my goalkeeper actually got more than one rating of 5 that season which was a wonderful achievement.

Villarreal came begging for him again the next season and once again he single-handedly saved them from relegation - 64 conceded, 7 clean sheets, 5 Man of the Match awards, average rating 6.97. It was around this time when I realised that I had a real gem on my hands - which 17-year-old goalkeeper could walk into a La Liga team and be a key player while playing well?

Villarreal surprisingly didn't come after him the next season (I would have jumped at the opportunity - now 19, this goalkeeper was on the verge of challenging for Italy's number one), so he went to Roma on loan and got his first cap, and was magnificent - 33 conceded, 16 (!) clean sheets and 2 Man of the Match awards, average rating 7.06. Roma finished 4th, while silly Villarreal went down conceding 79 and finishing last, 11 points off 19th.

Then Genoa tried to sneak in a loan plus future fee but I smacked them and took it off, and accepted. 27 conceded, 14 clean sheets, 2 Man of the Match awards, average rating 7.11.

By now, he was definitely Italy's number one and when he came back, he'd be mine too. Just on time, one of my goalkeepers whined about wanting a new challenge so off he went and Akinfeev became backup for my starlet regen. And he's been with me ever since. Did an FMM search on him one day - he's now a 193/195, and I suspect he would never have made it this far if I hadn't taken a risk with the loan, especially since I had a older and actually better-at-the-time young goalkeeper rotating with him in the Under-20s. This other goalkeeper turned out to be not-so-good in the end but still a very good goalkeeper - 2 caps because of my goalkeeper, but captain of struggling Inter and despite Inter's woeful form, is still worth nearly 10 million pounds and is a leader to boot.

I've always been of the opinion "if they're good enough, they're old enough!"

I actually don't worry too much about the developmental aspects that have been mentioned. In a Man Utd save I decided to use Rafael as my Nº 1 right back in the first season. His attributes developed very quickly and the coach reports put it down to his play in the first team. Unfortunately for Fabio, Patrice Evra was too good to shift from the first team for any great length of time and he developed more slowly. I've no doubt though that had I decided to make him my Nº 1 left back, he would have developed at the same pace as his brother.

So ultimately if I have a youngster that shows he can perform as well if not better than his more senior counterparts, I'll try to get them playing more, as soon as possible. One factor is that after two or three seasons, they're part of the "core" of the team and still very youthful. It gives me great pleasure to have sides with an average age less than 25 for example, especially when they're winning trophies and you know that the core of the team still has the best years ahead of it.

I also agree with most eople saying if hes good enough hes old enough. I often sacrifice having really strong good backup for the sake of having youngsters as backup. For instance in my newcastle game Messi is getting injured regularly, but the good thing is its giving a great opportunity for my 19 year old right winger whos starting to develop steadily.

the thing ive noticed is how much player development differs, i have one left winger who was world class at the age of 19 and cost me 23M to buy, whereas some player can just be horrible at that age, but by the time they hit 23 they become magic.

I have one striker whos 19 and regularly gets my team a win with super sub goals. I try and give players under 20 with potential at least 10 games as a sub as well as starting cup games. Most of the time you od really notice an improvement.

I think the best thing for any club is to have a feeder club in the championship, as there is a huge amount of games played so you have a good chance of your player making a lot of appearences, and if they do fairly well there over a season or 2 you know they are ready to step up to your senior team.

I also agree with most eople saying if hes good enough hes old enough. I often sacrifice having really strong good backup for the sake of having youngsters as backup. For instance in my newcastle game Messi is getting injured regularly, but the good thing is its giving a great opportunity for my 19 year old right winger whos starting to develop steadily.

the thing ive noticed is how much player development differs, i have one left winger who was world class at the age of 19 and cost me 23M to buy, whereas some player can just be horrible at that age, but by the time they hit 23 they become magic.

I have one striker whos 19 and regularly gets my team a win with super sub goals. I try and give players under 20 with potential at least 10 games as a sub as well as starting cup games. Most of the time you od really notice an improvement.

I think the best thing for any club is to have a feeder club in the championship, as there is a huge amount of games played so you have a good chance of your player making a lot of appearences, and if they do fairly well there over a season or 2 you know they are ready to step up to your senior team.

I agree with the last thing you siad. I have Nottm Forest as a feeder and it's great experience for my young players. One of my USA regens became the best AMC on the team there at 19 years old and played lots of games. Now he's come back and I made him backup for Giovinco and he's played really well in cup matches.

i don't know how it works at a top club but at lower levels i always use top gun youngsters especially goalkeepers try him out and if he has low eccentricity then go for it it might work

of course it helps if your strikers can score a bag full of goals so you win even if you concede 2-3 goals

but play him and see how he behaves in game

I like loaning my young keepers to teams in which their goals get hammered. Won't get more experience than that . If I don't intend to sell them that is, low match ratings won't help me sell him.

I like loaning my young keepers to teams in which their goals get hammered. Won't get more experience than that . If I don't intend to sell them that is, low match ratings won't help me sell him.

usually only 1 or two good goalkeepers come from the youth academy in several years so you wont lose much either buy selling them on low price

i hate when a regen looks bright and promising then he's got an eccentricity of 15 grrrrrrrrr

I have had a 18 year old regen in my squad for nearly 2 seasons, now whilst he is only my back up he has been getting games. Especially towards the end of the season just gone, where i thought i couldnt get promoted, i was sitting just outside the playoff places but my form was poor all season. So for the last 5 games i played him over my established 30yr old and he managed to keep 5 clean sheets! & i sneaked in to 2nd place.

Now i did also play him in cup games, but lower league most games are tough fought, but he still managed to hold it together. Now for my maiden season in the Championship he will be my 1st team keeper whilst getting tutored off my newly 31 yr old keeper.

That is encouraging to read. I hope I have similar results!

Start of last season I signed a 16 year old DC with huge potential. First game of the season, away at Chelsea, my main DC gets sent off so on comes the 16 year old. He plays excellently so I decide to risk starting him in my next game, away at Arsenal. (Schedulers are cruel). He again played a blinder. After this I decided "if he can play like that against the big teams, maybe I should give him a prolonged run".

By the end of the season, he'd played 45 games, scored 10 goals (without the corner exploit) and averaged well over 7.00. Think I have a legend in the making. He's English too.

No I don't think so, I have played keepers of that age in the team, gives them great experience.

Blimey. I can't recall ever getting a regen that progressed to anywhere near my first team, going back to CM 01/02 and covering management at all levels bar the absolute giants.

Have I been horribly unlucky, clueless about youth development or (deep breath of anticipation) has FM09 (which I've not tried yet) made this aspect of the game more workable?

There are a "few" (I mean, very rare) regens that just have a superstar quality immediately. Wolves have a 19-year-old defender/midfielder called Carlos Manuel who would have walked into most teams when he was 16 on my game, and I have a midfielder called Giuseppe Cannavaro who is so good he's actually playing emergency right wing due to injury even though he's a centre-mid.

It generally only applies to the Lionel Messi/Wayne Rooney quality type of regens - and usually you can spot the ones who will make a first-team impact on the strength of their physical stats.

Saying all that, for a Goalkeeper, 17 is very, very young. I personally don't purposefully play a 'keeper before the age of at least 21. Remember, 'keepers actually peak in their 30's!

Saying all that, for a Goalkeeper, 17 is very, very young. I personally don't purposefully play a 'keeper before the age of at least 21. Remember, 'keepers actually peak in their 30's!

Yep. I rarely buy anyone over the age of 25/6 these days, but I just splashed out over £20mil on a 30 year old GK, knowing he's got 6-8 good years in him still.

Blimey. I can't recall ever getting a regen that progressed to anywhere near my first team, going back to CM 01/02 and covering management at all levels bar the absolute giants.

Have I been horribly unlucky, clueless about youth development or (deep breath of anticipation) has FM09 (which I've not tried yet) made this aspect of the game more workable?

yep, I think FM09 has certainly improved Regen development.

They were so bad on FM08, the game was over after the real players had retired