This will get ignored

I know this will get ignored as it is going to be classed as a rant.

I have played every football manager since the very first championship manager (including the italian one that came out for the amiga) and i just wanted to ask does anyone play this anymore and enjoy it?

I mean i find it such a chore now and im not having fun any more.

This is supposed to be a simulation right? of real life? there are too many things wrong with it. I mean silly things happen in the game and the sliders thing is stupid, how can one slight nudge on a slider make such a difference. This is not like real life and therefore surely should not be called a simulation.

I can understand the tactics side of the game but i have looked through so many posts and printed off so much help but when i try to implement them into my game nothing works. In real life the tactics are a bit more basic and peoples personalities are more important than getting the right nudge on a slider, surely the time has come to get rid of this system and make it more realistic, imagine Harry Redknapp going into a dressing room saying, right boys today i wanna play 14 notches long ball with 13 for tempo. He wouldnt, he would say I want the ball long and try and get the passes going towards there shortest defender. (for example) Now i understand that it wouldnt be easy to have that as an option and for it to be user friendly but it would mimic real life a million times better than the current system.

Something people used to do tactic wise but i dont know if they still do, was counter what there opponent did based on there scout report. For example if the report came back they played long and fast, some people played short and slow. Now i did try this but it never worked for me, thats not the point,point being it never seemed logical. Why would you do that, say Everton V Bolton and your playing as Everton, would you change and play really short and slow one game, then say your playing Liverpool change tactics to long cos they played short, whats the logic? I mean how can you get your side playing any kind of consistancy and teams also wouldnt make such drastic changes. Everton pretty much play same way for every game, so they wouldnt adjust there own style for Liverpool then Bolton then again different for lets say Stoke (another team who like to hit it long)

So with the countering your opponents thing seeming illogical i go onto making tactics, (using other peoples is very hard to implement in your own game) Now logic says certain things work together, and they seem to, for example the "rule" that tempo is linked with passing makes sense, but why is it so intricate, it wouldnt be in real life. (going back to a point i made earlier) The more basic idea that seems to be in FMH i think makes more sense. I know people say on these forums when they post there own ideas up that this might not work for you etc but surely some of it has to work but nothing seems to, now i must admit im not the greatest playing of fm but while its in this state the enjoyment is small, compared to previous versions, i still dont know why we cant buy cheap scandinavians like i used too!!

So lets say I wanted to play as West Ham and wanted to play the way Zola does, is that going to be easy to translate into FM, i think not. From what i can see Zola likes to have his FBs push right on, almost as wing backs and have his M R/L cutting in. ( a left footer on right and right footer on left) He also likes to have a big man to knock it forward to as well. He likes the ball played down on the floor and a fair amount of movement. Now in thepry thats easy to implement but with the multitude of options when making tactics getting it slightly wrong effects the tactics too much, I know Zola likes to have the ball short but how many notches would that be? Also Zola doesnt adjust his tactics to his oppnent, like if playing Stoke still plays the same way or if playing liverpool doesnt suddenly decide to whack it long. His personality is important in getting the players fired up (something i mentioned earlier in this post) Zola does it, Redknapp does it.

Once you have a basic tactic thats logical not how many notches to left or right of something shouldnt peoples personalites come into play? and how important are teamtalks, someone suggested that for kick off its best left as nothing is said, how unrealistic is that? Before people start moaning and complaing its only a game etc, this is supposed to be a simulation of real life, so therefore you cannot use that argument. If your going to try emulate real life, which a simulation tries to fo then at least get the basics right.

What makes this game worse?

I cant put the bleeding thing down, no matter how hard i try in it tho i cant seem to do it and im now at the point where i feel like giving up, been through so many posts but its really sodding depressing

RANT OVER

I love playing it. I never get tired of success. I officially became the greatest manager of all time 8 seasons ago

im not bored of it

Its a management simulation and it tries to simulate real life but it is still a computer game and will never be either as real, complex or easy as the real thing.

The tactics are more difficult to crack than in previous versions but the tactics forum is packed with players who been successful with their own so it can be done. It has been suggested that the next version should include a set of default tactics that will have a higher level of success, without the need to tinker and adjust so much, so watch this space.

Part of the games success is its complexity and frustration and surely that mirrors the problems that todays manager face.

This game is awesome, it gets better every season!

I'm heading into season 2026/2027 soon and the hunger to succeed is still there. It's like a drug.

I think I kept going because of Carlo Ancelotti. His AC Milan side was just as dominant as my Barcelona side. We had a titanic tussle for the Hall of Fame top spot until he retired last season.

While I won't argue that the tactical side of FM is perfect, I'll vehemently disagree with people who say that it doesn't work or is totally unrealistic. In my FM08 save (and the tactical model and ME model is not wholly different in FM09), I implemented my tactical philosophy into the game well. I had a big guy up front with a little and, crucially, pacey guy alongside him. My wingers pressed their full backs in, allowing my full backs time and space to deliver crosses to my target man. I used my central midfielders well, and my centre halves were reliable without being outstanding. I also had a killer counter attacking formation, and a couple of different tactics for closing a game out - so I rarely conceeded late goals.

FM takes a little bit of work to set up your formations, but you have to have a tactical philosophy and you have to administer it well. Too many people stick a simple 4-4-2 formation together and then simply ramp the attacking mentality slider up when they want to attack and down when they want to defend and expect that to be it.

You have to tweak all the little bits and pieces, but once you have a solid base formation, you only have to tweak one or two little things before each game (and utilise the opposition instructions well) and you've got a decent chance of success if you bring the right players in.

The most annoying thing is the fact the games seems to 'replicate' those insane results where you have all the possession and chances but lose, I just played WBA and has 20 shots 10 on target and 5 clear chances but lost 2-1 because their first shot was a penalty and their secong goal was a sublime lob from 30 yards by Miller! It's just not right and happens too often and there is nothing you can do or at least it feels like the game has said 'right you are going to lose this whatever happens'

Also the whole media part is too linea and basically just an annoying thing you have to do!

Something people used to do tactic wise but i dont know if they still do, was counter what there opponent did based on there scout report. For example if the report came back they played long and fast, some people played short and slow. Now i did try this but it never worked for me, thats not the point,point being it never seemed logical. Why would you do that, say Everton V Bolton and your playing as Everton, would you change and play really short and slow one game, then say your playing Liverpool change tactics to long cos they played short, whats the logic? I mean how can you get your side playing any kind of consistancy and teams also wouldnt make such drastic changes. Everton pretty much play same way for every game, so they wouldnt adjust there own style for Liverpool then Bolton then again different for lets say Stoke (another team who like to hit it long)

Real Life Example: Chelsea vs. Barcelona; 2009 Champions League

I know Chelsea plays as a responsible defensive side, but that was definitely them adapting to their opposition.

---------

Hard to disagree with the slider part of your 'rant' (your word). I could see about 7 different slider positions ranging from Ultra/Moderately/Mildly to Neutral on both sides of the spectrum, but 20 does seem a little silly.

I personally have a had a lot of success developing tactics based on what I felt was common sense:

• Play within my teams abilities
  

Nobody set to long passes with a skill of 7. Restrict dribbling on players who score low there. Make sure my defenders who lack pace aren't joining the fray needlessly. Etc.

• Limit extremes
  

Through balls always? Maybe one guy. Always run with ball? Maybe two guys. Free Role? 1 maybe not even. Long shots? Almost all set to None unless they have a 14 or better. My one DM who has 19 Long Shots is set to Often, but is told to never run with the ball (so he holds his position first).

• Adjust based on scout report
  

Slow Dangerman? Mark him out of the game with my best marker & tight marking always. Pacey forward: Loose Marking & show to weaker foot. Slow defenders on their side? Start my pacey forward. Weak aerial defenders? Up the number of crosses into the box to my Target Man. Long field? More through balls. Short field? Shorter passes. Wide field? Best crossing wingers and all passes go there.

-------

Common sense can work. I've read the TT&M and tried adopting the "Rule of One" and all the other truly marvellous theories, but they are just that: Theory. I found it better to just watch what unfolded, look closely at my players abilities and design a strategy that worked for them.

Worked a lot better than using the presets 4-4-2 Diamond (4-1-2-1-2) that came with the game or even the TT&F 4-4-2 Diamond (Attack/Defend/Neutral) presets. Clausura League Champions & Apertura Runner-up, InterLiga Champions twice & two-time Copa Libertadore Runner-up in three seasons.

FM takes a little bit of work to set up your formations, but you have to have a tactical philosophy and you have to administer it well. Too many people stick a simple 4-4-2 formation together and then simply ramp the attacking mentality slider up when they want to attack and down when they want to defend and expect that to be it.

You have to tweak all the little bits and pieces, but once you have a solid base formation, you only have to tweak one or two little things before each game (and utilise the opposition instructions well) and you've got a decent chance of success if you bring the right players in.

I share exactly the same philosophy.

For me it's about understanding the tactic you're going to use, keeping it fairly simple to manage (I now only change passing and tempo globally... ever) and ensure that you understand what the most suitable player attributes are for each role and developing your squad accordingly.

I know this will get ignored as it is going to be classed as a rant.

I have played every football manager since the very first championship manager (including the italian one that came out for the amiga) and i just wanted to ask does anyone play this anymore and enjoy it?

I mean i find it such a chore now and im not having fun any more.

This is supposed to be a simulation right? of real life? there are too many things wrong with it. I mean silly things happen in the game and the sliders thing is stupid, how can one slight nudge on a slider make such a difference. This is not like real life and therefore surely should not be called a simulation.

I can understand the tactics side of the game but i have looked through so many posts and printed off so much help but when i try to implement them into my game nothing works. In real life the tactics are a bit more basic and peoples personalities are more important than getting the right nudge on a slider, surely the time has come to get rid of this system and make it more realistic, imagine Harry Redknapp going into a dressing room saying, right boys today i wanna play 14 notches long ball with 13 for tempo. He wouldnt, he would say I want the ball long and try and get the passes going towards there shortest defender. (for example) Now i understand that it wouldnt be easy to have that as an option and for it to be user friendly but it would mimic real life a million times better than the current system.

Something people used to do tactic wise but i dont know if they still do, was counter what there opponent did based on there scout report. For example if the report came back they played long and fast, some people played short and slow. Now i did try this but it never worked for me, thats not the point,point being it never seemed logical. Why would you do that, say Everton V Bolton and your playing as Everton, would you change and play really short and slow one game, then say your playing Liverpool change tactics to long cos they played short, whats the logic? I mean how can you get your side playing any kind of consistancy and teams also wouldnt make such drastic changes. Everton pretty much play same way for every game, so they wouldnt adjust there own style for Liverpool then Bolton then again different for lets say Stoke (another team who like to hit it long)

So with the countering your opponents thing seeming illogical i go onto making tactics, (using other peoples is very hard to implement in your own game) Now logic says certain things work together, and they seem to, for example the "rule" that tempo is linked with passing makes sense, but why is it so intricate, it wouldnt be in real life. (going back to a point i made earlier) The more basic idea that seems to be in FMH i think makes more sense. I know people say on these forums when they post there own ideas up that this might not work for you etc but surely some of it has to work but nothing seems to, now i must admit im not the greatest playing of fm but while its in this state the enjoyment is small, compared to previous versions, i still dont know why we cant buy cheap scandinavians like i used too!!

So lets say I wanted to play as West Ham and wanted to play the way Zola does, is that going to be easy to translate into FM, i think not. From what i can see Zola likes to have his FBs push right on, almost as wing backs and have his M R/L cutting in. ( a left footer on right and right footer on left) He also likes to have a big man to knock it forward to as well. He likes the ball played down on the floor and a fair amount of movement. Now in thepry thats easy to implement but with the multitude of options when making tactics getting it slightly wrong effects the tactics too much, I know Zola likes to have the ball short but how many notches would that be? Also Zola doesnt adjust his tactics to his oppnent, like if playing Stoke still plays the same way or if playing liverpool doesnt suddenly decide to whack it long. His personality is important in getting the players fired up (something i mentioned earlier in this post) Zola does it, Redknapp does it.

Once you have a basic tactic thats logical not how many notches to left or right of something shouldnt peoples personalites come into play? and how important are teamtalks, someone suggested that for kick off its best left as nothing is said, how unrealistic is that? Before people start moaning and complaing its only a game etc, this is supposed to be a simulation of real life, so therefore you cannot use that argument. If your going to try emulate real life, which a simulation tries to fo then at least get the basics right.

What makes this game worse?

I cant put the bleeding thing down, no matter how hard i try in it tho i cant seem to do it and im now at the point where i feel like giving up, been through so many posts but its really sodding depressing

RANT OVER

It's a shame you feel that your constructive feedback will be ignored, because you've raised some good and interesting points.

While I'm of the opinion that the tactical side of football is as complex or as simple as you want to make it, we do recognise that Football Manager can be difficult and complicated to understand as well as carrying a deep learning curve in some places and that's something we hope we can improve on in the future.

It's a shame you feel that your constructive feedback will be ignored, because you've raised some good and interesting points.

While I'm of the opinion that the tactical side of football is as complex or as simple as you want to make it, we do recognise that Football Manager can be difficult and complicated to understand as well as carrying a deep learning curve in some places and that's something we hope we can improve on in the future.

Really think the game should be less concerned with being a pure simulation and more a game, at the end of the day I have to watch Spurs win nothing year on year in real life so why would I want to do that on a game too? It's meant to be fun escapism and I for one think that has been lost over the last few years with too much focuis being placed upon replication.

I think there should be an arcade mode for people who just want to win. The problem with realism is that realistically most people are not good enough to manage football teams.

Really think the game should be less concerned with being a pure simulation and more a game, at the end of the day I have to watch Spurs win nothing year on year in real life so why would I want to do that on a game too? It's meant to be fun escapism and I for one think that has been lost over the last few years with too much focuis being placed upon replication.

Seriously, even though the tactical interface might seem difficult to understand, with a few simple principals, it can become quite simple really.

I've posted a few topics in T&TT over the years and read countless others. I've always found that the best approach involves some of the simplest of tactical setups, that can be tweaked easily once you gain more confidence and understanding, along with learning what player attributes work well with given positions and roles.

Something that I've tried to do most recently in my own posts is try and encourage people to look at player attributes in relation to their tactics. This helps take the emphasis away more from just tactics and towards squad building.

Once I've got a little more free time, I'm planning on writing up a guide of sorts that will hopefully simplify the way people look at tactics overall.

Really think the game should be less concerned with being a pure simulation and more a game, at the end of the day I have to watch Spurs win nothing year on year in real life so why would I want to do that on a game too? It's meant to be fun escapism and I for one think that has been lost over the last few years with too much focuis being placed upon replication.

It's all about finding the right balance at the end of the day. FM still offers an awful lot of fun for the majority but that doesn't mean we think it's perfect and we're constantly reviewing the experience in all of our titles.

Let's hope we can bring back the fun for you in the next version.

What annoys me about FM is that a great tactic can turn kuckledraggers into world-beaters and a poor tactic can turn the worlds best into inept ****.

Tactics, fortunately, don't have that kind of effect irl. Scolari got it wrong at Chelsea but they were always in with a chance of the league. O'Neill and Moyes have got it spot on but don't have the players to mount a serious challenge.

I guess my point is good players can get results irrespective of tactics and poorer players will fall short despite the abilities of their managers. If FM could model that then I would be a far happier virtual manager. Atm i'm sick of managing Barca or Inter and battling relegation if I don't use the 'right' tactic which I stumbled across by pure luck.

Players win games, not tactics!

Seriously, even though the tactical interface might seem difficult to understand, with a few simple principals, it can become quite simple really.

I've posted a few topics in T&TT over the years and read countless others. I've always found that the best approach involves some of the simplest of tactical setups, that can be tweaked easily once you gain more confidence and understanding, along with learning what player attributes work well with given positions and roles.

Something that I've tried to do most recently in my own posts is try and encourage people to look at player attributes in relation to their tactics. This helps take the emphasis away more from just tactics and towards squad building.

Once I've got a little more free time, I'm planning on writing up a guide of sorts that will hopefully simplify the way people look at tactics overall.

Problem is I have job and busy life now and so maybe don't have the time I used to that I can spend hours on the game, I used to enjoy playing and winning even if it wasn't that realistic, these days it is not a relaxing experience more an annoyance at the back of your mind that pulls you back, that will end and people will play less and less over time.

It's all about finding the right balance at the end of the day. FM still offers an awful lot of fun for the majority but that doesn't mean we think it's perfect and we're constantly reviewing the experience in all of our titles.

Let's hope we can bring back the fun for you in the next version.

When you win it is fantastic no doubt it is the best game going still in my opinion but I do think it has gone too far in one direction, it is a game at the end of the day. I'll not sit here and have a go because that is unfair I just wish the developers would take a step back sometimes and think of the end user and not just the challenge of making the game ultra realistic.

tactics wise about West Ham, I Generally agree, I find it hard to get my wingers to come inside into "the hole"...without playing them literally in that hole.

Tactically wise though, I rarely ever change my tactics and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

What I don't understand for me are people who have their own set tactics that they find works everytime before they have even started the game and people who copy good tactics from others. What's the fun in basically having someone else winning games for you?

I've never once looked up for wonderkids on Fm or even looked at training schedules or tactics, I try and run everything myself, always trying new things and I enjoy it far more...

to be honest, nothing much to do with the thread, but my own rant.

Didnt expect so many replies and very impressed that Neil replied, i have to say i think the support from SI is fantastic even if i dont agree with everything thats said.

I have tried so many times to implement tactics and it just doesnt seem to work, i think i may possibly be confusing tring to do what i percieve as realistic and what the game ME plays as, if that makes sense. Currently playing as West Ham and after a few re starts after trying thing im unfortunatly left with the same problem, anything i create doesnt work so having to use someone elses (who may i add has done a great job) Im not sure of the effects of the media tho in this and the team talks are boring now, only way to start a game and get anything like a response from my players is to tell them to do it for the fans.

I wonder if its possible for SI to explain how a slider on lets say 15 for passing it relates to real life. who in football would play that, Bolton? Stoke? Chelsea even. or would Chelsea be 14 and Stoke 16 and Bolton 18?

I agree with ejawilson it is a great feeling when you win no doubt about it but i feel using someones elses tactic and the team talks/media interaction im not really doing much really. The tactics i am using are a set of about 10 that vary depending on weather and odds etc, but the ones i tried which look similar dont work (I know its something i am doing but what im doing wrong i dont know, thats part of the frustration)

@Neil to be honest i didnt feel that it was constructive feedback i just was playing the game and needed to stop and vent my feelings on here (sort of like a theapy session this really) I understand thats it not possible to please everyone and that there are a hell of a alot of people that are loving this game more than ever, unfortunaely im not one of them, maybe i feel like the game has moved on and i havent been able to keep up with it.

People may laugh at this but i have printed off pages and pages of info off of the forums and sieved through them trying to implement certain things but nothing is works, another of my frustrations. I mean some people say make the tactic around your team, but if i pick my best west ham team then adjust everything around my teeam its all disjointed. So i do what someone else says, keep it very basic, and the players just dont play and get ripped apart! Its trying to make sense of the sliders i think that some people may find hard and how they coralte (wrong spelling i know) to the game, rather than real life.

Now lets say i just played a match and my next match was stoke, would it possible for your head coach to approach you and say "what things would you like to practice in training?" and for that week you concentrate a bit harder on dealing with long balls, on heading and on sides that are physical, i would guess teams in real life wouldnt just train the same every week, they would keep some things basic but some would be adjusted to suit there next fixture.

Any stoke fans i hope i dont offend just using you as an example as you play the long ball so well.

@heathxxx i have downloaded tactics of yours before and implemented things you have suggested, but failed.

Maybe there is help for me, i mean at the moment the team im playing are

green

neill gabbidon upson ilunga

behrami dyer parker boa-morte

ashton cole

Now with them i think i have the option of playing long ball as cole and ashton are both good in the air, but also decent on the floor, particuly ashton. Now in general i would like to play a short passing game, so would i have it on 5 for passing and 6 for tempo. decent pace in defence so d line doesnt have to be that far back, maybe 10. now if i did that and nothing else ( the basic approach) i will get ripped apart, so if i start adjusting individual things the balance goes. would have lower time wasting although read on here somewhere that could effect how you play in some way. what im saying is i feel i understand the principals of whats being said but they dont seem to happen!!!

Im also guessing that teamtalks are vital now and maybe more important than anything else. could you have an average tactic but great team talk?

Lets say its west ham team v stoke, they are gonna play longer so in theory i drop my d line so they cant get long balls over the top and reduce closing down, that to me makes sense, but what on the slider do i put the d line, is 1 too far back and 7 too far forward? its like its a grey area and you have to guess, by which time you could be a goal down anyway! Now i know to put upson to man mark Beattie cos of his threat in the air and fuller i would have mark tight by Gabbidon. Then with Etherington on the wing i would be tempted to double up with behrami as neill is so slow or just have neill sitting deep to compensate. maybe even start the game with behrami at right back as he is much faster and have someone different on right wing. Although recent when West ham played stoke and neill was playing at right back, his lack of pace didnt stop him from having etherington in his pocket. My point is i feel those basics are right and thats just from basics i rememebr reading (nbot checking my many pages of download!!

I have always wondered if d line related to players pace. i.e defender with pace of 15 you could have d line at 15, pace of 5 d line at 5 to compensate for there lack of pace.

Thank you for replying people tho

Question:

I've only been playing FM since FM05 and its always been sliders and I have never really understood what they do... So why did SI choose sliders? Could it be changed? If yes how?

People want to beat the game using a combination of gaming knowledge and real life football knowledge, but ultimately they want to beat it. When they can't they think something is wrong.

People want to win, they want to feel like they've earnt the win, but at the end of the day, they want to win.

Is any one else getting annoyed at how many of these threads there are?

My thought on it all is that it's impossible to re-create real life on FM as such.

Going back to the Scolari/Chelsea point, the thing that kept Chelsea going IMO was the other teams fearing them. Thinking the usual Mourinho/Grant-style Chelsea was coming to play and fearing them. It's part of how Manchester United have done so well these last few years and how Arsenal haven't. You see a team sheet of Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez et al and you start to worry, even if they're playing terrible, they have the advantage. You see the Arsenal team sheet and think that you CAN knock them out of their stride and win.

I've always changed tactics throughout the CM/FM's. I've gone from 4-4-2, to 3-4-1-2 (CM01/02), to 3-1-4-2 (FM05), to 5-3-2 (FM06) to 4-4-2 (FM07) and finally to 4-2-1-2-1/4-3-3 (FM08 & 09). Every time takes a nonsense game where all I do is concentrate on my tactics and what player benefits what position.

Is any one else getting annoyed at how many of these threads there are?

Doesn't that suggest that there might just possibly be something wrong though?

Doesn't that suggest that there might just possibly be something wrong though?

I think wrong is a strong word, you can't really quantify the amount of threads like this against the amount of people who are having no problem enjoying their game, as nobody posts a 6 paragraph new thread every few weeks going on about how great their game is!

I agree that we need to bring more clarity for some of the options and provide more guidance to the user and that's something we will improve on in future versions.

The tactical side of football is always going to be very subjective and difficult to represent in a game, so the trick for us is to try and find the right balance between giving enough detail for those who want to dive in deep while still making it accessible and easy to understand for those that don't.

drevil -

I'm no stranger to sifting through forums or printing helpful documents out for guidance because that's something I used to do myself many years ago before I joined the company. In many ways this isn't a new problem but it is something that has got inherently more intricate as FM has evolved and we are listening and do recognise that.

Perhaps there should be a tutorial for new players?

I can't remember if a hints tab comes up or not to help new players, but if there isnt then I think a tutorial to teach new players how to get the most out of their tactics could be a good idea. Tell them what each little thing means, what you can achieve from direct passing or long passing. How to get the most out of your Target man or what a playmaker can do for your team. These little things are often what can change a team and are what a few new players just ignore because they don't understand.

In most cases unless you come on here and ask you'd never know...

Then again this is based on the fact that i can't remember if there is a help kinda thing for players like how you find on MS Office with that damn paperclip lol.

It is difficult to develop tactics in the game because first off you have to decide and create your stlye of play, for example using target men, getting wingers in behind etc and then figure out how to translate that into the game.

For example I want to be able to get my full backs to play through balls in behind for my quick wingers to get on to so I use direct passing for the FB and often TTB and combine that with use target men run onto ball for my wingers, which is great but if I then also want to ask my CM to play the ball into the feet of my deep lying target man I can't because I have used target man option got the wingers and thus I have to try and figure out a way round it, it's like some of the options are your joker and you have to use them wisely which is a bit unfair. Maybe if each player had a 'feed to' option and a style so I could set my FB to feed their respective wingers with balls to run onto and so on through out the team.

What I would like to see is more of an overlying instruction as well.

If you have a DM man-marking an AM, and the formation changes, you need to go back into the setup and change with them, but if it goes back, then you have to re-do it. My thought is that you could have a 'when the opposition player is in this position, man-mark him' instruction

@captain planet, being a West Ham fan i understand i wont win alot of games but i wanna feel that what im doing is logical but when i go to adjust say a tempo setting im not really sure what im doing. I mean it could be on 15 and i need to slow it down to 10 or something but i dunno is it anything between 7 and 13? If i play an experimental game with chelsea or man utd i will win more but it also gives me more scope to make tactical mistakes but even when doing that i find that im not sure exactly of whats going on or how my adjustment has changed things. I tried using the assistant for help using this method, he said in some cases we are playing too long so i kept nudging it one at a time to shorter football. All of a sudden he said it was then too short!!! so its either too short or too long!!!

@padizmad I dont understand people that message things like your message. I have looked at messages in this forum and thought oh god so just ignore it, i dont message in it, it gets ignored like i expected this one to do.

@deisler I think the fact there are so many different views on football that its very difficult, what has started as a rant by me to let off steam has made me see things a little different and put things in a better perspective. The way i see West Ham play is probably very different to how the next person sees West Ham play. I have had many arguments with my brother over games who has played well etc!! My point is how i would implement a way West Ham play is different to how my brother might want to implement it. I still think the sliders system seems a little flawed but maybe they could have a few less sliders ,maybe 1-10 and an explanition against each.

@ r-dizzle in theory i can see your point, maybe it would work, and have it get harder and harder, you wouldnt want it to do things for you but just tell you perhaps if doing a tactic you ass man could say dont do such and such as it clashes with a certain thing. I.e as west ham say i wanted to play long but slow, my ass man would meesage and say that it might not be affective as it clashes so icould learn that way.

@ejawilson and deisler those would add more depth to the game agreed but i bet it would be bleeding hard to add into it and would affect the programming so much!

I still would like to know that what sort of changes to people make say if playing as west ham to arsenal, do they keep the same? if i do i get hammered so surely you lower mentality, mark up a bit, play a bit longer and on the counter. But then thats going against your own natural game. I guess im finding it harder adjusting a particular tactic to each team i face more than anything. I dont want to change too much but then if i dont really know what changes what and how it affects it then i dunno what im doing really anyway. i could be changing too much or not enough and believe me i have experimented a hell of a lot

Have you ever noticed that when you get it wrong your team does some very odd things, defenders scoring own goals for example by blasting it into another defender and the ball ends up in your goal or goalkeepers handling the ball out of the area for no apparent reason!

Whenever I look at other peoples tactics that have been successful they seem so so simple in that they use almost entirely global settings and instructions that don't seem logical i.e. def mid on run with ball and cross ball often, but they work! Also I find the best way to beat big teams is just attack as if you defend their star players will merely score from 40 yards or get a pen so if i were you just find a good attacking system and use it home and away, its not perfect the pros seem to outweigh the cons!

Personally, ive enjoyed it and still play it alot. But your entitled to your opinion. I do have one point though. Your complaining that the game is not realistic enough. Did you find the earlier versions more realistic? Because i feel it has come along miles in terms of realism since FM08.

Personally, ive enjoyed it and still play it alot. But your entitled to your opinion. I do have one point though. Your complaining that the game is not realistic enough. Did you find the earlier versions more realistic? Because i feel it has come along miles in terms of realism since FM08.

The game is more realistic in terms of the results from games and who wins the league which I believe is what you mean. It is not realistic that you essentially have to instruct your players in code! For example you have to say I want you to close down the opposition at a level of 15 out of 20 etc and not just if so and so gets the ball out wide you go close him down, which is what you would do in real life.

The only reason i am enjoying the game now is because of a tactic i downloaded (Tylerbode) a couple of weeks ago. I have never felt the need to do this previously but the game just wasnt enjoyable beforehand.

The tactic isnt a super tactic (Diablo) and you still need to put in the work to get the correct players with the right attributes to suit each position but since downloading i am right back into this game.

It takes me back to the good old days when it was more the players you signed that had an impact on the results, rather than if you have moved the tempo slider one notch too much or that the ball boy isnt happy with his current deal.

It was my last throw of the dice before i stopped playing altogether and like i said, really enjoying it now.

Maybe give it a go. It may help you enjoy this game again.

The game is more realistic in terms of the results from games and who wins the league which I believe is what you mean. It is not realistic that you essentially have to instruct your players in code! For example you have to say I want you to close down the opposition at a level of 15 out of 20 etc and not just if so and so gets the ball out wide you go close him down, which is what you would do in real life.

But when he says that he has bought all FM/CM's they have always been done like this. So why buy all the games and complain now?

What annoys me about FM is that a great tactic can turn kuckledraggers into world-beaters and a poor tactic can turn the worlds best into inept ****.

I guess my point is good players can get results irrespective of tactics and poorer players will fall short despite the abilities of their managers. If FM could model that then I would be a far happier virtual manager. Atm i'm sick of managing Barca or Inter and battling relegation if I don't use the 'right' tactic which I stumbled across by pure luck.

Players win games, not tactics!

Man City have Robinho, Fulham has Danny Murphy. Fulham are doing better. Hodgson's tactics matter.

I find even when my tactics are awful, I still will do quite well if I play as a big club, and my players have creative freedom, because they will randomly pull goals out of nowhere (cf. Ronaldo/Gerrard screamers IRL) to win games. But I will draw a lot of games I shouldn't: just like Chelsea were doing, just like Arsenal were doing. I don't know how you got near relegation.

Also, it is already hard to win the league on this game until you have world-class players: you can do well with your tactics by beating all the other teams you can, but head-to-head with the big 4 (+man city), I don't think too many people do well straight away. IRL, teams do great against man city, even though their players are in many ways comparable to Liverpool (who play a v.similar 2 DM system).

It is not realistic that you essentially have to instruct your players in code! For example you have to say I want you to close down the opposition at a level of 15 out of 20 etc and not just if so and so gets the ball out wide you go close him down, which is what you would do in real life.

They introduced opposition instructions which do this. Put the wingers to "close down always" and they always get closed down. The closing down in more the overall game plan "let's get in their faces" vs. "sit back and keep it tight" except we get twenty different ways to say it (and one notch never makes as much difference as frustrated people like to imply on these forums)

I do not adjust my tactics for home/away or based on the opposition or the weather (except perhaps, for matches against the big 4). I have mostly global settings, with a few tweaks. Set up the postitions of your tactic, and the basic instructions (TTB, RWB etc.) and then play a friendly on "Full Match." If the team are getting ahead of themselves, up time-wasting, if they're hoofing it long, lower passing. Don't rely on your AssM, look for yourself. Then when the basics work, you can make any minor tweaks (putting your playmaker to direct passing, or tweaking your attacker's creative freedom), and continue watching.

By the end of your pre-season you have a working tactic. I ignore all that TTF stuff (although I'm told it's good) about how many notches apart in closing down and mentality everyone should be. All but my striker are on the same mentality. All but my full-backs (who are most easily dragged out of position) have the same closing-down. I use the OI to make them hunt down wingers.

I'm not amazing, but I can get a mid-table team near the top, or a relegation team around mid-table in a season. That's good enough to be fun. It's the same level I was at on the earlier FMs.

Too many people pay too much attention to scouts, or the AssM or random theories instead of watching a full match and figuring it out. Dunno if this excessively long post applies to you - but I also felt like ranting a little.

@ejawilson I started off with west ham and the team wasent bonding and that was happening all the time, i have to say the funniest thing ive seen is when the ball is passed back to the goalkeeper and he does a diving header to clear it! saw it 3 times in a match just now!! Im not sure i agree with that about the big teams, my tactics usually are 11 men behind the ball and hang on from the kick off. If i even consider having aplayer on FWR i concede lol! You have my point spot on about the sliders and the game is realistic in terms of results thats almost spot on but the sliders thing is a bit silly.

@jimmywils im afraid i am having to do a similar thing except i downloaded a different set of tactics that seem to work ok. Cabt get a result away tho, any advice? With tylerbodes tactic i couldnt seem to find the players that could fit the system, the only thing that i could do with west ham was sell the squad and pretty much start again, but thats not what he had in mind, or is it?

@jim99 I have never liked the sliders thing but it was never mentioned cos i always found a way around it. Downloading other tactics was my way but now even thats flawed and for first time i tried making tactics. On fm 08 i tried a few times but gave up as it didnt seem to make sense, this time i tried over and over, many nights my fiance was left in bed while i tried to find a way to get something working but to no avail. I guess im saying that it didnt matter so much until now.

But when he says that he has bought all FM/CM's they have always been done like this. So why buy all the games and complain now?

More feedback I'd say

Man City have Robinho, Fulham has Danny Murphy. Fulham are doing better. Hodgson's tactics matter.

I find even when my tactics are awful, I still will do quite well if I play as a big club, and my players have creative freedom, because they will randomly pull goals out of nowhere (cf. Ronaldo/Gerrard screamers IRL) to win games. But I will draw a lot of games I shouldn't: just like Chelsea were doing, just like Arsenal were doing. I don't know how you got near relegation.

Also, it is already hard to win the league on this game until you have world-class players: you can do well with your tactics by beating all the other teams you can, but head-to-head with the big 4 (+man city), I don't think too many people do well straight away. IRL, teams do great against man city, even though their players are in many ways comparable to Liverpool (who play a v.similar 2 DM system).

They introduced opposition instructions which do this. Put the wingers to "close down always" and they always get closed down. The closing down in more the overall game plan "let's get in their faces" vs. "sit back and keep it tight" except we get twenty different ways to say it (and one notch never makes as much difference as frustrated people like to imply on these forums)

I do not adjust my tactics for home/away or based on the opposition or the weather (except perhaps, for matches against the big 4). I have mostly global settings, with a few tweaks. Set up the postitions of your tactic, and the basic instructions (TTB, RWB etc.) and then play a friendly on "Full Match." If the team are getting ahead of themselves, up time-wasting, if they're hoofing it long, lower passing. Don't rely on your AssM, look for yourself. Then when the basics work, you can make any minor tweaks (putting your playmaker to direct passing, or tweaking your attacker's creative freedom), and continue watching.

By the end of your pre-season you have a working tactic. I ignore all that TTF stuff (although I'm told it's good) about how many notches apart in closing down and mentality everyone should be. All but my striker are on the same mentality. All but my full-backs (who are most easily dragged out of position) have the same closing-down. I use the OI to make them hunt down wingers.

I'm not amazing, but I can get a mid-table team near the top, or a relegation team around mid-table in a season. That's good enough to be fun. It's the same level I was at on the earlier FMs.

Too many people pay too much attention to scouts, or the AssM or random theories instead of watching a full match and figuring it out. Dunno if this excessively long post applies to you - but I also felt like ranting a little.

I agree and with the work you can win but its the effort involved! My point about wingers is that when you are not playing wide men and playing a DM I want him to close them down but can't get it right the way I see it happening because of the vast combination of instructions involved and the OI does not allow for you to select the player you wish to do the specific instruction.

Added to all this if you spend time tweaking the tactics without replaying matches your squad loses faith in you too quickly and moral has such a huge effect that you can find it difficult to decide if its the tactic or the players moral and so trial and error does not work always. I also find a tactic works great for 6-9 months then drops off as the AI counters it which is not overly realistic as for example Fergie had a tactic which couldn't be stopper for years and it was 4-4-2! Teams didn't have the players to stop them and so they kept on winning.

The game is more realistic in terms of the results from games and who wins the league which I believe is what you mean. It is not realistic that you essentially have to instruct your players in code! For example you have to say I want you to close down the opposition at a level of 15 out of 20 etc and not just if so and so gets the ball out wide you go close him down, which is what you would do in real life.

How is that not realistic maybe in terms its worded it is not but if you think about it it is.

I could tell my player in FM to close down at 15. In real life translation I could specify a specific distance for this like telling my player too stay off the opposition by 2 metres roughly

How is that not realistic maybe in terms its worded it is not but if you think about it it is.

I could tell my player in FM to close down at 15. In real life translation I could specify a specific distance for this like telling my player too stay off the opposition by 2 metres roughly

But both of you know what 2 metres is, its plain english not code, which is my point, basically in the game you have to figure out two things, how you want them to play and then how to instruct them to play that way which can be infuriating at times!

But both of you know what 2 metres is, its plain english not code, which is my point, basically in the game you have to figure out two things, how you want them to play and then how to instruct them to play that way which can be infuriating at times!

I always thought that it was rather simple but I understand if people cannot work it out maybe SI should include the help thing once again to explain tactics?

I like to think I'm okay with what the tactical options are/do, but the problems I get, and I'm sure a fair few other people are the same, is when you get to a point when either you either can't work out how to do what you want, or you see things your team are doing and can't work out how to stop them. It's difficult to know exactly what combination of settings you need to use to get what you want out of your players. For example, my current goalkeepers simply refuse to use the 'defender collect' option. I even just used the exact same tactic from a different save that always used that, but they just don't do it. Maybe it's patently obvious what I need to change (it seems to be because of the defenders, they're not 'offering' themselves to the keeper, I've tried changing their settings but can't get them to come back) but it's just an example of where I can't get to where I want. I'm not saying there needs to be an overhaul of the tactical options, but I really do think there should be a very in-depth manual included with the game. These forums invariably provide the answer to these sorts of questions, but I think they should be more of a last resort than a primary source of advice, which is what it's come to be for me.

I always thought that it was rather simple but I understand if people cannot work it out maybe SI should include the help thing once again to explain tactics?

As said above no problems understanding the individual settings just the combinations and the thinking behind certain options.

Here's an example, I want my two CM to play as a destroyer and a shield, so I want my high stamina agression (Hargreaves etc) player to chase the ball down all over the midfield and I want my creative off the ball type, (Carrick etc), to mark the free CM so he can intercept the pass no matter where he is positioned, now this assumes my wingers are marking their full backs, FB on wingers etc etc so I have one CM on close down all over and one on never and both on Zonal so they don;t just leave one player alone but if their CM that I want marking had forward runs on and he is so far up field he is out of my CM's Zone' he won't mark him and conversely if he is so deep my CM won't mark him either and I can't see a way round this. Now it's just an example and I'm not suggesting a way round it even with OI of CD and TM always but its a situation where the slider system and OI etc don't quite cover it and leaves me annoyed I can't get what I want from the game.