England's No.1 Jersey - Experiment/Sign-up

UPDATE - 27/05/09 09:00am (GMT +1)

- Experiment/Sign-up on hold due to irretrievable loss of data.

UPDATE - 13/05/09 11:30am (GMT+1)

- Season Analysis completed, see post #310.

UPDATE - 12/05/09 22:30pm (GMT+1)

- Screenshots for first Season Summary released! see post #293. Season analysis to be posted tomorrow.

UPDATE - 12/05/09 15:10pm (GMT+1)

- Experiment is underway. First season (08/09) is complete with Season Summary due tonight.

UPDATE - 8/5/09 19:50pm (GMT+1)

- Transfer Window is now closed as all positions are now filled.

Introduction:

This is my first attempt at this so it will be short and sweet...

England need a goalkeeper. Between David "Calamity" James, Chris "Sicknote" Kirkland,

Ben "Benchwarmer" Foster and a host of other not-quite's and almost-nearly's, no one has

laid definitive claim to to Englands No. 1 jersey with any surity since David Seaman (Yes

this even includes Paul Robinson who only really had it by Proxi).

What I propose is unleashing some fine young ENGLISH goalkeeping talant on the world and

seeing who rises to lay claim to a regular English spot.

Oh but there's a twist! I would like each keeper to start with a different goalkeeping

attribute maximised and see who rises to the top.

The Rules:

-keepers will be created aged 17 with a different Goalkeeping attribute maximised

and a "Control" subject with none.

-Apart from the selected maximised attribute, all other attributes will start identical.

- Participants may choose which English club to start with. (or unattached if they so wish)

- The test will run for 23 seasons (until subjects are 40), the winner being the subject

with the most international caps. (This could be extended until all subjects are retired, opinions?)

The point:

Well, I'm testing two variables.

First and most obvious is the starting maximised attribute, as I'm sure things like

Reflexes and Handling will be selected first.

Second and more curiously I personally think the starting club will be the biggest

factor. Do you choose somewhere like Man Utd where you're garanteed awsome training

and awsome coaches but also garanteed Reserve and substitute appearances, or do you

choose say Luton, where first team football is barely a whisper away?

I am unsure that I will produce some hard facts in the results, but hopefully it will create some debate and prehaps even some techniques on how to manage young keepers in game to get the best possible chance of developing the next Buffon rather than the next Gomes.

Of course I hope it'll be a bit of fun too, with seasonal updates/tables on appearances,

clean sheets, transfers, international caps and a whole host of other information. After

the final season I will do an awards ceramony including such coverted gongs as:

The Platinum Glove (least conceeded over entire career)

The Giggs award for club Loyalty

Player's player (your votes hopefully)

The Kirkland (most injured)

The Nomad (Most transfered)

The Schmeichael (most domestic trophies)

The Flop (worst player)

...and other i'll make up nearer the time. (suggestions welcome)

Datebase info:

I intend to run English leagues down to BSP with probably France/Spain/Italy/Germany/Scotland

top leagues (for later transfers prehaps?) with a small data base.

What I want from you:

First off, some feedback as to if anyone will be interested in taking part and if it's

worthwhile. Secondly, suggestions on the starting attributes of the subjects. I was

thinking something like 100CA/200PA with like 12 acorss the board for everything else.

I must admit that balanced player-creation isnt a strong point of mine so input on

this is grately appreciated.

Also suggestions of what other maxed attributes could be interesting as starting subject.

Notes:

Those who input/help the most from the begining will get priority placements

for when this kicks off.

This isnt intended to be on anything like the scale of say Bandits, just abit

on this side fun and to introduce myself to the wider community. If its popular

enough I will consider doing other similar experiments/sign-ups.

I am looking forard to your feedback, suggestions and hopeful participation.

Adam

EDIT:

I would prefer it if people didnt make submissions until i have finalised the starting template of the subjects.

To make it fair, when I am ready to accept applications i'll open a "transfer window" of sorts,

stating a date and time (as far in advance as possible) for when applications can begin, again preference to be given to those who support me the most in this "pre-season phase".

Thanks for your understanding.

Hi, your Opening post is very good

I really like the idea and I think everything you have said is fine, I think 100CA 200PA is a good start and attributes at 12 should be ok, although 10 may be more realistic at 100CA maybe (just a guess I don't actually know :o).

Good work

(If I get selected to join can I have rushing out at 20 )

Name: Davidus Solo

Club: Liverpool

Attribute: Reflexes

Think this could be interesting, Going for a lower club will get you games but will you get noticed? I'm hoping that training and loans will work for me and then I can displace Reina. Ca/Pa are fine, any higher will mean we all get in straights away

Name: James Hulme

Club: Man Utd

Attribute: One on ones

this is a gd idea, as most probably all england fans wish we had a good keeper, picking a bigger club might help the stats move up quicker but also you might get sent out to feeder clubs to get some first team action, before you get the chance when you come back. I do like the awards that look good, bet my player will win the flop knowing my luck in challenges.

I would prefer it if people didnt make submissions until i have finalised the starting template of the subjects.

To make it fair, when I am ready to accept applications i'll open a "transfer window" of sorts,

stating a date and time (as far in advance as possible) for when applications can begin, again preference to be given to those who support me the most in this "pre-season phase".

Thanks for your understanding.

I would prefer it if people didnt make submissions until i have finalised the starting template of the subjects.

To make it fair, when I am ready to accept applications i'll open a "transfer window" of sorts,

stating a date and time (as far in advance as possible) for when applications can begin, again preference to be given to those who support me the most in this "pre-season phase".

Thanks for your understanding.

EDIT: Suggestions for starting metal trait and other "hidden" attributes gratefully recieved

I really should read all the posts before getting carried away!

It really is going to be interesting as each player will have high ratings in one particular area.

Take Gomes of Spurs for an example, my 4 year old daughter looks more commanding when attempting to take a cross, but arguably he is one of the best shot stoppers in the world.

I think another interesting variable would be bravery, as this has to be a factor in a keepers attributes.

The more you think about it, the more interesting this becomes.

If you put all attributes at 12, you'll then be able to see the effects of playing versus coaching. Taking your point about starting clubs, it will give an indication of the playing/being coached debate.

Would love to be a part of this if possible

Name: James Hulme

Club: Man Utd

Attribute: One on ones

this is a gd idea, as most probably all england fans wish we had a good keeper, picking a bigger club might help the stats move up quicker but also you might get sent out to feeder clubs to get some first team action, before you get the chance when you come back. I do like the awards that look good, bet my player will win the flop knowing my luck in challenges.

Am glad people are interested because I know of cringe anytime a cross comes in to the box with James in goal, so hopefully people will have a vested interest of sorts.

I will put money on my player getting the flop, especially as i will be giving him 20 Eccentricity for a giggle!

Name: Greasy Fingers the 3rd

Club: Man City

Attribute: Command of Area

I've just edited my post no.8!

Oh! I forgot to mention reputations! Whats a good place to start?

Oh! I forgot to mention reputations! Whats a good place to start?

Not sure myself really, but you want them to have something of a chance of success. If they are beginning at a top club then they will surely need some reputation to have been taken to the club in the first place.

Not sure myself really, but you want them to have something of a chance of success. If they are beginning at a top club then they will surely need some reputation to have been taken to the club in the first place.

and needs to be high enough not effect the starting stats. Prehaps something like 3500 home and current with maybe 500 world?

Opinions please...

Edit: I will tinker a bit when i get home from work, unless there is someone able to do a quick test themselves for me with: aged 17, one GK stat at 20, the rest 12's with mental traits at 10 and Professionalism at 20, hidden attributes at 10 with injury proneness 5.

thanks

Looks very interesting. I would be very interested to join in.

Club:Portsmouth

Name:Maxim Marinovski

Attribute:Reflexes

i think the reputation might need to be a bit higher if they are going to be a premiership which most people are picking, with those low ones they'll just get released.

i think the reputation might need to be a bit higher if they are going to be a premiership which most people are picking, with those low ones they'll just get released.

Feel free to make a suggestion on how much higher

I'm liking this sign-up, it's a neat little idea...

But a couple of thing:

If you create a player with 12 on all attributes apart from one which is 20, is that not going to be a fairly high CA? What CA do you plan to put in the data editor? I'm not really an expert but would that not have to be 130-150 for the attributes not to drop too much when the game is loaded?

I've done a couple of sign-ups myself, and I dunno if you're aware, but when you load the game with generated players the CA takes precedence over attributes. Eg, if you create a player with 50CA and 5 attributes at 20 the player will have his attributes randomly lowered to a 50CA... Hope that's clear what I mean

Also in my experience, reputation doesn't do much in terms of getting to play at certain clubs...

As long as you put the players on 'Hot-Prospect' long-term contracts, they won't be released. Obviously they wont play much for a good few years, but in real life no 17 year old GK would get EPL action

If you want them to play sooner, it would perhaps be better to either have them signed for a League 2 side or lower. Alternatively, they could have contracts with big clubs, but start out with season-long loans to lower clubs?

I'm liking this sign-up, it's a neat little idea...

But a couple of thing:

If you create a player with 12 on all attributes apart from one which is 20, is that not going to be a fairly high CA? What CA do you plan to put in the data editor? I'm not really an expert but would that not have to be 130-150 for the attributes not to drop too much when the game is loaded?

I've done a couple of sign-ups myself, and I dunno if you're aware, but when you load the game with generated players the CA takes precedence over attributes. Eg, if you create a player with 50CA and 5 attributes at 20 the player will have his attributes randomly lowered to a 50CA... Hope that's clear what I mean

Also in my experience, reputation doesn't do much in terms of getting to play at certain clubs...

As long as you put the players on 'Hot-Prospect' long-term contracts, they won't be released. Obviously they wont play much for a good few years, but in real life no 17 year old GK would get EPL action

If you want them to play sooner, it would perhaps be better to either have them signed for a League 2 side or lower. Alternatively, they could have contracts with big clubs, but start out with season-long loans to lower clubs?

Hey, Thanks for some feedback!

First off, numbers quoted so far are rough idea's, althrough ive been thinking on this Idea for a week or so, i only chose today to actually impliment it so i have done no ingame testing as such. The CA I'm think starting with would be a generous 100.

Actually, you have explained how the game copes with attributes vs reputation rather well (and i am aware and frustrated by it) so i know what you mean, so i will deinately have to tinker some, prehaps starting with 10's not 12's. (experiments to be done tonight)

Ive been thinking over reputation and I certainly dont want 17 year olds strolling into top prem teams strait away, as itys counter-productive to the point of the experiment. Those who choose to go strait into top flight will risk rotting in the reserves/U 18's for seasons, thats their problem, So im happy starting with a low Rep. (as Application process hasnt actually started yet no one is tied to their previously requested teams!).

Personally, i'll be starting at a mid-tabled championship side (yet to be decided) as i want my Barthez in progress (20 Eccentricity!) to get real game time.

Again, thanks for the constructive feedback.

On a side note, what do people think should be the maximum number of people allowed to enter, considering you wil lallbe competing for the 1 England position?

Club:Blackburn

Name:Phill Keeper

Attribute:Reflexes

Club: Yeovil Town

Name: Andrew Jackson

Attribute: Eccentricity

By the way compared to Jorge Campos, Barthez is a mere 17 in Eccentricity

Now that was one crazy Mexican goalkeeper!

Assigning players to clubs, rather than unattached will make early retirements less likely. Also have you thought about which attributes you are going to set for all players? Maybe big game at 20 and injury proneness and eccentricity at 1, as the aim is for all the players to achieve a high level within the game. Would be interested in this sign up. Great op btw. Its funny how many people don't bother to read it and just whack their details in.

Assigning players to clubs, rather than unattached will make early retirements less likely. Also have you thought about which attributes you are going to set for all players? Maybe big game at 20 and injury proneness and eccentricity at 1, as the aim is for all the players to achieve a high level within the game. Would be interested in this sign up. Great op btw. Its funny how many people don't bother to read it and just whack their details in.

An experiment in its self in some ways!

Eccentricity will be an option to be put to 20, but i agree, for everyone who doesnt choose it I will set it at a modist 2. Yes, big games at 20 should be a must also, i'll add that to the list.

As for the other Attributes, will probably be somewhere between 10 and 12 depending on how my tinkering turns out when i get back from work and how the proposed stats interact with starting CA.

I'm using this time as a hopeful brainstorming process so when I do get back i have a good idea of the template I want.

Thank you for the input.

Another direction to add a bit of a twist would be not only to set an attribute at 20 but set one at 1. Don't know if you'd want to do this but just thought it was an idea

I think when you put reputation for players in the editor it's out of 200 isn't it? So just put the reptation as the same as the CA

What you should try (this is what most people including me do for signups), leave all the other attributes as 'undefined'/blank and only adjust the ones people specify (apart from hidden ones which you can do what you like with as they don't count towards CA).

The game will then automatically fill in the other attributes randomly to get the CA "filled up"...

Another direction to add a bit of a twist would be not only to set an attribute at 20 but set one at 1. Don't know if you'd want to do this but just thought it was an idea

I think when you put reputation for players in the editor it's out of 200 isn't it? So just put the reptation as the same as the CA

Reputation goes up to 10000 i think. I'll look at similar level players to the ones i want to create and get a feel for what they start at.

What you should try (this is what most people including me do for signups), leave all the other attributes as 'undefined'/blank and only adjust the ones people specify (apart from hidden ones which you can do what you like with as they don't count towards CA).

The game will then automatically fill in the other attributes randomly to get the CA "filled up"...

This was my original stance, to save effort, time etc on my part. BUT, its counter-productive to one of the points of the Experiment. If i am seeing the effects of one stat on the subject, I can not allow the randomness of leaving all other attributes 0 to affect the potenial results as the experiment is thne no longer controlled. It could give an unfair advantage to a few players who get lucky with the randomisation and hence negate the effect of the one strong attribute.

Scientifically, to get as true as a result as possible, all conditions need to be as identical as possible between the subjects. Of course, idally then i should have them all at the same club and let the best rise from that. but thats just not really viable within this testing field. Hence why i am hoping that althrough top tier clubs have better training facilities, game time in the lower tier will even it out some.

I hope that makes sense.

This idea seems to be gaining momentum.

When do you have an intention to get this off the ground?

Depending on interest and how my tinkering goes tonight, probably a 24 hour transfer window on friday.

I would say leave the reputation at random but don't let anyone start lower than league 1 as there reputation should be partially governed by ability and also by the squad they start with, this way no one retires early and they should be able to realize their potential.

I would say leave the reputation at random but don't let anyone start lower than league 1 as there reputation should be partially governed by ability and also by the squad they start with, this way no one retires early and they should be able to realize their potential.

League one idea im happy to take on board, but as stated in post 28, i'm to leave as little to random as possible to fully feel the influence of the maxed GK attribute. However, if other people support the random reputation idea i'm happy to go with it.

Thank you for your input.

Putting a fixed reputation on a player doesn't really allow their choice of squad come to life, b/c it may be too high for a lower league and they will be snapped up by a higher rep team and rot in the reserves for a couple years when the user creating them may have wanted them to get a start in the lower leagues to have a better chance of breaking into the youth squads first. That is the basic reasoning behind the random rep

Putting a fixed reputation on a player doesn't really allow their choice of squad come to life, b/c it may be too high for a lower league and they will be snapped up by a higher rep team and rot in the reserves for a couple years when the user creating them may have wanted them to get a start in the lower leagues to have a better chance of breaking into the youth squads first. That is the basic reasoning behind the random rep

Fair point well made and your reasoning fits well with the other half of the point of the experiment. However, will it adversly effect the starting attributes of the subject? ideally i want them all starting with the same basic template. Prehaps this is why you suggested league 1 being the lowest starting league?

I can't say that I have done extensive testing but I believe that the basic template should be as close to the same as possible for the different starting leagues but they should all reach the same potential anyway and the reputation shouldn't have too much of an adverse effect on the players starting attributes.

I can't say that I have done extensive testing but I believe that the basic template should be as close to the same as possible for the different starting leagues but they should all reach the same potential anyway and the reputation shouldn't have too much of an adverse effect on the players starting attributes.

Fair enough, i'll add it to my list of things to check for when i get home later.

Again, thank you for input.

Any time, always here to help a fellow FM user

Hmm, just reviewing the list of GK skills which are as follows:

Aerial Ability

Command of Area

Communication

Eccentricity

First Touch

Free Kicks

Handling

Kicking

One on Ones

Penalty Taking

Relfexes

Rushing Out

Tend. to Punch

Now, i have enboldened the Attributes i think are most relivant for this experiment (I am unsure as to the benifit of communication, kicking and tend, to punch) althrough I'm open to suggestions to add any of the others to the list (as long as you can provide good reasoning of course!)

However, as the number is so low, im proposing to have 2 of each Keeper with the same attribute maximised, but with the stipulation that they can not start in the same league together.

What are you opinions to this adaptation?

I imagine communication is the most important one that you haven't included. Would be quite useful in terms of organising the defence and defending set pieces, although im not 100% positive how that works out in the game.

You know, I just read through this and I agree with you on alot of things. I'm also a proponent of the 2 keepers with same stat maxed in the same league, nice way to keep it balanced.

If you want to avoid the rep problem just make everyone start in the same league. I think league 2 would probably be the best. (although as I prefer the lower leagues my vote would be for the Blue Square South or North )

I'm also a proponent of the 2 keepers with same stat maxed in the same league, nice way to keep it balanced.

Could you elaberate on this slightly please? You tink those with the same Attribute Maxed should be in the same league not different? if so, why?

Club: Crewe Alexandra

Name: Theo Stigarakis

Attribute: Penalty Taking

If you want to avoid the rep problem just make everyone start in the same league. I think league 2 would probably be the best. (although as I prefer the lower leagues my vote would be for the Blue Square South or North )

I considered this as an option but then we loose the debate about to we start the subject in top tier training reserve/U18 or do you go for lower tier first-team. I would like a mix to see how careers progress and then relivant chances of gaining International caps. Does the game want Player Reputation, Club Reputation, Ability, Regular Starters, etc We miss out on all that (which is half the reason for the experiment!)

Therefore i'm allowing the choice, however I'm hoping for science sake people will take a fair spread

Club: Crewe Alexandra

Name: Theo Stigarakis

Attribute: Penalty Taking

Another one who cant read.

Btw mate im liking the way you've opened this signup to discussion and careful planning, should hopefully make it work really well.

Club:Sunderland

Name:Liam Ferguson

Attribute:Reflexes

good idea

Another one who cant read.

Btw mate im liking the way you've opened this signup to discussion and careful planning, should hopefully make it work really well.

Cheers Corbs.

Job wise I have spent much time doing data analysis work so have a very good understanding of constants and variables and the potential they have on effected out-comes

and how to generally run these types of experiments/queries.

Currently I'm working as a Games Tester (not saying who for), and im currently off-project, so got some time to burn. I just hope i'm not putting to many people off with the way im addressing this experiment. I want to have a laugh over it and entertain myself really!

Could you elaberate on this slightly please? You tink those with the same Attribute Maxed should be in the same league not different? if so, why?

Well, I think that most people are going to gravitate toward the Premier or Championship anyway and by saying that people with the same 20 attribute have their choice of league taken away, you may lose some people. Now, capping it to two keepers to a stat is a great idea, but to limit league selection is something that I really can't get behind.

Well, I think that most people are going to gravitate toward the Premier or Championship anyway and by saying that people with the same 20 attribute have their choice of league taken away, you may lose some people. Now, capping it to two keepers to a stat is a great idea, but to limit league selection is something that I really can't get behind.

Fair enough, i'll take that on board. Hopefully others will comment on this also so I can get a feel for what the masses want.

thank you for your input.

Well, I think that most people are going to gravitate toward the Premier or Championship anyway and by saying that people with the same 20 attribute have their choice of league taken away, you may lose some people. Now, capping it to two keepers to a stat is a great idea, but to limit league selection is something that I really can't get behind.

If you look at DodgeeD's STI v NTI most people actually picked to be in a lower league. But I agree that there shouldn't be a limit on the leagues anybody can pick.

Adzh, In the OP I noticed that you said you would load down to the BSP, maybe you should go the whole hog and load the BSS and BSN? Also you didn't mention the Scottish leagues but a lot of players in these sign ups seem to go to Scotland so it may be worth loading them too.