Ball possession

Every match I play with my Barcelona side I always have the ball less than the opponent.

Most matches it is a lot less. Something along the lines of me having the ball for around 30% of the game. I still win matches though, so I am not complaining.

I am just wondering if everyone else has that same thing happening?

I've tried anything from slow short passing games to quick direct game and no matter what, I have the ball less than the opponent. Even when I play cup matches against non league teams, I have the ball less.

I am quite puzzled as to why this is happening. Tried numerous tactics during 6 seasons or so.

Every match I play with my Barcelona side I always have the ball less than the opponent.

Most matches it is a lot less. Something along the lines of me having the ball for around 30% of the game. I still win matches though, so I am not complaining.

I am just wondering if everyone else has that same thing happening?

I've tried anything from slow short passing games to quick direct game and no matter what, I have the ball less than the opponent. Even when I play cup matches against non league teams, I have the ball less.

I am quite puzzled as to why this is happening. Tried numerous tactics during 6 seasons or so.

IMO it is a small bug, it doens't really have much of an impact on the match most of the time but it can be irritating.

If you watch the full match you will see the opposition back four pass it between themseleves for minutes on end without actually doing anything with it. It's similar to a team time wasting but they aren't time wasting or at least they shouldn't be because they are losing.

I watched a full game between Roma and AC Milan, I was Roma and won 7-1, my possession was 43%. Milan had lots of possession but did nothing with it, they just passed it among themselves for ages.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

IMO it is a small bug, it doens't really have much of an impact on the match most of the time but it can be irritating.

If you watch the full match you will see the opposition back four pass it between themseleves for minutes on end without actually doing anything with it. It's similar to a team time wasting but they aren't time wasting or at least they shouldn't be because they are losing.

I watched a full game between Roma and AC Milan, I was Roma and won 7-1, my possession was 43%. Milan had lots of possession but did nothing with it, they just passed it among themselves for ages. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That explains a lot.

And yes, it is annoying but not really important.

Thanks for the info

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

IMO it is a small bug, it doens't really have much of an impact on the match most of the time but it can be irritating.

If you watch the full match you will see the opposition back four pass it between themseleves for minutes on end without actually doing anything with it. It's similar to a team time wasting but they aren't time wasting or at least they shouldn't be because they are losing.

I watched a full game between Roma and AC Milan, I was Roma and won 7-1, my possession was 43%. Milan had lots of possession but did nothing with it, they just passed it among themselves for ages. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can you call it a 'small bug' is beyond me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gerry58:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

IMO it is a small bug, it doens't really have much of an impact on the match most of the time but it can be irritating.

If you watch the full match you will see the opposition back four pass it between themseleves for minutes on end without actually doing anything with it. It's similar to a team time wasting but they aren't time wasting or at least they shouldn't be because they are losing.

I watched a full game between Roma and AC Milan, I was Roma and won 7-1, my possession was 43%. Milan had lots of possession but did nothing with it, they just passed it among themselves for ages. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can you call it a 'small bug' is beyond me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cant see how it can be anything but a small bug, as long as it doesn't affect the outcome of the matches.

If they pass the ball around, doing nothing and thus get the high possession, so be it.

As long as I win the games

Your last line is the key there!

I've had games were 3 of my opponent's midfielders have played well over 100 passes and my team just can't get the ball. Sometimes we still win, but sometimes we don't. Obviously it is a tactic, but whether it is a realistic one I don't know. Sure I can have my midfielders closing down like maniacs, but they are so in the rhythm of their triangles of passing that even then it is impossible to get hold of the ball

I think the AI's defensive tactic when losing heavily (to prevent a cricket score) or when the odds are stacked against them is maybe a little too defensive.

I think the best thing to do in this situation is alter your tactics re closing down, mentality, marking and defensive line. But even when you do this it can still become frustratingly difficult to get the ball back even against technically inferior teams, plus AI managers are lethal at exposing flaws in your tactics and pushing up the defensive line is one they love to target.

In some respects it also links to the lack of intuitiveness and control of the tactical system (having said that I can't think of an alternative to the slider system, except maybe a third layer of real life type instructions similar to the set to instructions but that in itself would pose numerous issues). The ability to choose player to player closing down instructions would be nice as well (e.g. tell your winger to close down the opposition full back always but not the opposition central midfielders) but I wonder if too much control would lead to an overly predictable match engine.

Another aspect I think this relates to is the whole pace/acceleration argument. A bigger differential in attributes might make the less technically gifted teams less likely to get away with playing 'keep ball'. Just my opinion though and I realise the whole attribute thing is a tight rope and can lead to 'breaking' the match engine (see the pacy strikers and big target men of older versions).

Then there is the whole 'real life' debate as to whether or not these behaviours are influenced by natural tendencies (some midfielders for example tend to keep it simple and more often will pass sideways/backwards than forwards) or manager instruction which then opens up the can of worms that is the concept of PPMs and whether or not a manageer can impact on these in real life, and thus whether or not PPMs should be directly influenceable by managers rather than indirectly via tutoring. Incorporated into this is the fact that the game is intentionally ambiguous with regards to the actual effect of PPMs which makes it more difficult for a gamer like myself to know for certain if we can actually control a player's tendencies via creative freedom and mentality.

i sometimes dominate other teams around 60/40.

more often than not the difference in posession is no greater than 56/44

Cant see how it can be anything but a small bug, as long as it doesn't affect the outcome of the matches.

If they pass the ball around, doing nothing and thus get the high possession, so be it.

As long as I win the games

Wow, so even if you are playing vs a ******** AI (wich passes the ball 100+ times between players even if it is losing badly) you are happy because you win! You are so smart in Denmark!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

Your last line is the key there!

I've had games were 3 of my opponent's midfielders have played well over 100 passes and my team just can't get the ball. Sometimes we still win, but sometimes we don't. Obviously it is a tactic, but whether it is a realistic one I don't know. Sure I can have my midfielders closing down like maniacs, but they are so in the rhythm of their triangles of passing that even then it is impossible to get hold of the ball </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you ever seen a real football match where the players passed the ball 100+ times?

I've no idea to be honest - I never count the passes in real life, but that's my point - I don't think it is realistic, but I can't say for sure.

It's your tactics...

But seriously it is...I average 57% domestically, 51% in Europe playing a slow, short pass 4-5-1. It isn't a bug.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

I've no idea to be honest - I never count the passes in real life, but that's my point - I don't think it is realistic, but I can't say for sure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please do the math. A game is 90 m. long: i hade a game (in FM) where two midfielders passed for 180 times, that is 2 times a minute on average. Pure crap.

I can do the maths and I'm in agreement that it is too many - that was my points. All I was saying is that I don't have actual data from real life. You could easily make 2 passes per minute if you are doing what these AI teams do and just pass it between three players in a triangle.

I had a match where the opposition MCs (only two of them) managed 285 passes between them in 90 minutes. Nothing I tried worked.

I watched the full match because I suspected they'd do it, but I was practically tearing my hair out by the end.

Put quite simply, there was nothing I could do to get the ball. Sometimes, it is just too easy for opposition teams to get away with doing that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nelsonmcjones:

It's your tactics... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is one of the only times this is the right thing to say!

It has a lot to do with what formation you play and your passing style. If I play a direct style with a 4-1-1-4 formation, I'd expect to have 40% possesion at the best of times, no matter what team I'm playing. If I use patient tactics with a 4-5-1 formation I'll see much more of the ball.

It's your team-talk... LOL

Would tight marking their MCs help at all? Not sure you would want to, but if your desperate for the AI to do something different.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Digs_473:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nelsonmcjones:

It's your tactics... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is one of the only times this is the right thing to say!

It has a lot to do with what formation you play and your passing style. If I play a direct style with a 4-1-1-4 formation, I'd expect to have 40% possesion at the best of times, no matter what team I'm playing. If I use patient tactics with a 4-5-1 formation I'll see much more of the ball. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I was playing in Italy so I was using slow tempo short passing tactics, but I don't want to tell my creative midfielders to tight mark their holding midfielders because we are the home team and I want my creative midfielders to have some space to receive the ball and play!

If this is a realistic tactic that teams in the real world use then fair enough, I guess I'd have to get my AMCs to close down, tight mark and generally do everything they can to win the ball back and then be too knackered to do anything with it!

I have been on the other end of it too. My turgid Sampdoria team who also used slow tempo short passing with a 5-3-2 often dominated possession away from home and frustrated opponents. Mind you, they dominated possession at home sometimes too and frustrated themselves by drawing 0-0

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gerry58:

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cant see how it can be anything but a small bug, as long as it doesn't affect the outcome of the matches.

If they pass the ball around, doing nothing and thus get the high possession, so be it.

As long as I win the games

Wow, so even if you are playing vs a ******** AI (wich passes the ball 100+ times between players even if it is losing badly) you are happy because you win! You are so smart in Denmark!

Wtf is wrong with you?

Why don't you go out and enjoy the sun. No need for such insults.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Digs_473:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nelsonmcjones:

It's your tactics... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is one of the only times this is the right thing to say!

It has a lot to do with what formation you play and your passing style. If I play a direct style with a 4-1-1-4 formation, I'd expect to have 40% possesion at the best of times, no matter what team I'm playing. If I use patient tactics with a 4-5-1 formation I'll see much more of the ball. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, read my OP.

I've tried several types of playing styles and tactics over my 6 seasons. None has managed to give me the main possession of the ball.

Both slow passing and quick direct styles.

So it really CANNOT be my tactics.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gerry58:

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cant see how it can be anything but a small bug, as long as it doesn't affect the outcome of the matches.

If they pass the ball around, doing nothing and thus get the high possession, so be it.

As long as I win the games

Wow, so even if you are playing vs a ******** AI (wich passes the ball 100+ times between players even if it is losing badly) you are happy because you win! You are so smart in Denmark!

Totally unnecessary.

I would ignore Gerry58 if I were you, it's typical of the current climate in these forums that a well reasoned discussion on tactics and the possible other issues affecting possession can be dragged into the gutter by someone without anything to actually offer to the debate.

I certainly don't think this issue is tactical and more match engine based. Perhaps the only issue tactically would be that "time wasting" as a tactical feature has not been implemented well and AI teams seem to ignore the urgency of the game when trailing. It's all well and good switching to 4-2-4 in the last ten minutes but maintaining the level of time wasting can defeat the purpose of the tactical change.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by berggren75:

Well, read my OP.

I've tried several types of playing styles and tactics over my 6 seasons. None has managed to give me the main possession of the ball.

Both slow passing and quick direct styles.

So it really CANNOT be my tactics. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only other factors I can think of at the moment would be:

Your playmaker (If you have one that is) - could be useless, maybe try swapping your playmaker round or getting rid altogether.

Communication - Do all your players speak the same language? I wouldn't know if it makes too much of a difference but maybe 4 midfielders who speak the same language would be better than having them speak Italian, Portuguese, Zulu and Japanese. It makes keeping possession a much easier job.

Preferred Moves - Off the top of my head, PM's like 'dwells on ball', 'tries to play killer pass often' and 'shoots from distance' wouldn't be as effective for possession as 'dictates play' or 'looks for pass rather than attempting to score'. Maybe check your players preferred moves and experiment a bit with different combinations.

These are just quick ideas so I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't have much bearing, could be worth a try though?

This also bothered me because it does appear than your team was less dominant in the match than they actually were.

So I tweaked my Team Instructions for Creativity (to Little or lowest notch of Normal) and Passing (Short or lowest notch of Mixed). Then have most of your team but in particular the MC's and/or DMC's play to your team instruction. Setting a normal or above normal defensive line and tight marking also seem to help.

This has turn around my possession in most games to 55-60%, and even to 50-50 in my FA Cup game against Arsenal away (currently playing as Leeds in the Championship). Sadly i lost due to one Emannuel Adebayor hitting a hat trick from 4 shots on target...

Having to do that completely butchers proper football tactics though! If I have to set all my players to no creative freedom and they have to all close down and everyone on tight marking it makes a total mockery of my tactics and trying to play the way I want with home advantage.

Again, if is realistic in real life then fair enough, but I don't see it, even when I watch Italian football.

It doesn't actually happen to me all that often, but I remember Fiorentia at home to Livorno - I played my usual attacking tactic, it has holes, but then that is because it is an attacking tactic, but Livorno had something like 85%+ pass completion and > 60% possession and just passed the ball around amongst themselves for most of the match, very rarely sallying upfield to trouble my goal, but when my midfielders close down they are just running in circles as the Livorno midfield and defence pass to each other just as the man on the ball is closed down.

Sure I could have gone man to man across the whole field with tight marking, but what kind of tactic is that for a creative attacking team playing at home?!

time wasting....if the AI is using slow tempo, short passing, defensive mentality, and high time wasting there isn't much you can do about it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

IMO it is a small bug, it doens't really have much of an impact on the match most of the time but it can be irritating.

If you watch the full match you will see the opposition back four pass it between themseleves for minutes on end without actually doing anything with it. It's similar to a team time wasting but they aren't time wasting or at least they shouldn't be because they are losing.

I watched a full game between Roma and AC Milan, I was Roma and won 7-1, my possession was 43%. Milan had lots of possession but did nothing with it, they just passed it among themselves for ages. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's very easily countered with tactical adjustments.

I finally managed to get 56% possession during a match.

Used a 4-4-2 tactic to do it.

It does seem though, that the game doesn't utilise wingers properly as I never seem to see Messi and Ronaldinho play to their best when in wing position.

Whenever I drop them in AMC positions, they score goals and have a lot of assists.

But on the wings, they hardly do anything during a match, despite me focusing the passong on both flanks.

Anyone else noticed that?

OK, I wasn't getting very much posession in matches, so I set my 2DMs to low CF and had them pass it around with my playmaker until an opening arose. Is this not what real teams do? Having 60% of posession is surely what passing teams - like Arsenal - aspire to. The same applies to the oposition, surely. If they are wanting to keep the ball, they can pass it around and around until the opposition is frustrated, then play a ball forward. Its the tactic used in basketball, so why not in football?

The only problem is the problem with time wasting when you are losing. Players tend to keep doing what theyve been doing right instead of trying to move quicker if your just about to lose, and this is one area that needs to be fixed. I think it ws better in 06/07 but can't remember