The biggest flaw of FM

....

You ready....

SI have neglected to make a statement apologising to its customers or stating what is going to be done to resolve the occurring number of issues and flaws with this game. I spent $70 on this game only to find it completely faulty since day one. SI have shown customers come last and making money comes 1st.

Now you can all read this as a dig or what ever but the fact is that SI have not made any official statement to appologise. Its like me going into a shop buying a pair of jeans and they fall apart after 1 day. I go back into the shop and either get my money back or get a new pair along with an apology. What do SI give us, nothing.

They have shown as a company they treat us like we are worth nothing and come across as they don't care (i'll repeat this again encase people get the wrong idea, they COME ACROSS like they don't care, I'm not saying they don't it just seems like that). They lie to use also: they claim FM09 is faster than before. Wrong it is slower than ever before. This is on their video if you want to hear it from them.

I'm seriously annoyed at their amateurish nature of a business. I an seriously in doubt of ever buying this game again in my life time. Enough is enough. I wish they would appologise without their big ego (i.e. we have the best football managing game)! They have made an arse of FM09 there is no question, just look at the multiple daily posts about this is wrong and this doesn't work or this is a bug etc.

SI take note: you have seriously annoyed a lot of genuine loyal customers. No more am I ever putting up with your excuses.

No excuse, you sold us a faulty product! FACT.

I understand games are not perfect but yours still is far from anywhere near acceptable to being playable without coming across a bug. This to me is the worse game I have ever played seeing bug after bug after flaw.

....

You ready....

SI have neglected to make a statement apologising to its customers or stating what is going to be done to resolve the occurring number of issues and flaws with this game. I spent $70 on this game only to find it completely faulty since day one. SI have shown customers come last and making money comes 1st.

Now you can all read this as a dig or what ever but the fact is that SI have not made any official statement to appologise. Its like me going into a shop buying a pair of jeans and they fall apart after 1 day. I go back into the shop and either get my money back or get a new pair along with an apology. What do SI give us, nothing.

They have shown as a company they treat us like we are worth nothing and come across as they don't care (i'll repeat this again encase people get the wrong idea, they COME ACROSS like they don't care, I'm not saying they don't it just seems like that). They lie to use also: they claim FM09 is faster than before. Wrong it is slower than ever before. This is on their video if you want to hear it from them.

I'm seriously annoyed at their amateurish nature of a business. I an seriously in doubt of ever buying this game again in my life time. Enough is enough. I wish they would appologise without their big ego (i.e. we have the best football managing game)! They have made an arse of FM09 there is no question, just look at the multiple daily posts about this is wrong and this doesn't work or this is a bug etc.

SI take note: you have seriously annoyed a lot of genuine loyal customers. No more am I ever putting up with your excuses.

No excuse, you sold us a faulty product! FACT.

I understand games are not perfect but yours still is far from anywhere near acceptable to being playable without coming across a bug. This to me is the worse game I have ever played seeing bug after bug after flaw.

I distinctly remember they apoligised for the flaws and error when users were typing in the activation code. sigames also has brought out 3 patches to attempt to fix any current problems with the game. Nothing in this world is ever perfect for any moment of time.

So I have an idea, Buy the latest CM Product. I hear its being released sometime this month, if it hasn't been already. Play it and compare. Why do they need to apoligise for the bugs in the game ? Do you expect a game to be bugless once it is released ? 99.9% of games have some sort of bugs upon release. They (sigames) listen to the users who have these bugs and thus create a patch to fix these bugs. But by fixing some bugs, new bugs may pop up.

If you think FM09 is not good enough, then maybe you should apply to be a tester for FM10 and put your ideas into the game. Upon game release, did you submit posts about your concerns for the bugs you have appearing in your saved game and put them in the required forum areas for the testers & other sigames staff to read and give feedback on ?

Now I am not saying you are wrong, its good, very good to receive critisism, as you do not know what is wrong with the item if none comes in.

Hope this eases your mind.

SI apoligised for the steam activation problems and in my opinion don't need to apoligise for the game itself. They released a patch on the release date and have since then released two other patches. They could have just us with the original game but no they released the patches for the customers and didn't make any money off these patches. Thats customer service they've done nothing wrong.

This is just my opinion though and I may have not experienced the same bugs as you.

I feel very fortunate because I have never suffered any of the mentioned bugs in any versions of FM that I have played,

atleast nothing that I have noticed.

But upon purchasing the game you would have got the release day patch,

Which means you knew you were buying a product that wasn't bug free.

....SI have shown customers come last and making money comes 1st.

First day of business school: What is the first priority of any company?

Make money.

Jay-Producer:

Other posts you've made today:

"I wouldnt expect SI to comment, they hardly comment on any threads partly because they are too busy working out how to make more money."

"I have offered to make sound files for FM11 but SI have never commented on this so im not going to bother doing it. Secondly I want them to make an official apology for selling us a dodgy faulty game which has multiple bugs on it before I make any commitment."

You come across as the kind of person people cross the street to avoid.You need to grow up and get that chip off your shoulder. FM isn't your problem; it's you. Go away and sort yourself out.

I must say I've enjoyed the game ever since it was released.

And speaking purely for myself, thats all that matters to me.

I distinctly remember they apoligised for the flaws and error when users were typing in the activation code. sigames also has brought out 3 patches to attempt to fix any current problems with the game. Nothing in this world is ever perfect for any moment of time.

So I have an idea, Buy the latest CM Product. I hear its being released sometime this month, if it hasn't been already. Play it and compare. Why do they need to apoligise for the bugs in the game ? Do you expect a game to be bugless once it is released ? 99.9% of games have some sort of bugs upon release. They (sigames) listen to the users who have these bugs and thus create a patch to fix these bugs. But by fixing some bugs, new bugs may pop up.

If you think FM09 is not good enough, then maybe you should apply to be a tester for FM10 and put your ideas into the game. Upon game release, did you submit posts about your concerns for the bugs you have appearing in your saved game and put them in the required forum areas for the testers & other sigames staff to read and give feedback on ?

Now I am not saying you are wrong, its good, very good to receive critisism, as you do not know what is wrong with the item if none comes in.

Hope this eases your mind.

Your first point: I already pointed out I do not expect every game to be perfect. Please read my post properly. I have already explained why they need to appologise, again please read my post properly.

To address your second point: I did not in anyway state that FM is not good enough, I said I am annoyed at the flaws of the game and about the bugs it has. And plenty more that are still going around. You only need to look on the forum to see that. Fact not fiction.

To address your third point: I'm rather confused at what your pointing out. How can I comment on bugs if the game hasn't been released. I have given plenty feedback and comments on bugs that need fixed.

To address your last point: Thank you for not slamming my criticism. I know what wrong with the product. There is plenty info on the forums.

SI apoligised for the steam activation problems and in my opinion don't need to apoligise for the game itself. They released a patch on the release date and have since then released two other patches. They could have just us with the original game but no they released the patches for the customers and didn't make any money off these patches. Thats customer service they've done nothing wrong.

This is just my opinion though and I may have not experienced the same bugs as you.

I know SI have appologise for the activation problem, my post has nothing to do with that specific issue. I am also well aware they have release patches. If you had noticed the last patch was later than normal and another point is that there are still a lot of bugs going around. Way too many than normal. The amount of bugs at the beginning of the game release was ridiculous. There were near to the amount of a hundred bugs - that's one point I'm making out, the other is that there are still way too many bugs in the game. Far more than any other game I have ever played in my life.

Now answer me this - why did SI release a game with only a 50% match 3D complete? do you buy a pair of jeans that only has one leg?

SI apoligised for the steam activation problems and in my opinion don't need to apoligise for the game itself. They released a patch on the release date and have since then released two other patches. They could have just us with the original game but no they released the patches for the customers and didn't make any money off these patches. Thats customer service they've done nothing wrong.

This is just my opinion though and I may have not experienced the same bugs as you.

First day of business school: What is the first priority of any company?

Make money.

To ensure the product works. If you sell a faulty product no one buys it, or if they do they wont again. If you buy a new TV that doesn't work would you be happy? Would you want to buy it again if after 3 replacements it never worked?

Jay-Producer:

Other posts you've made today:

"I wouldnt expect SI to comment, they hardly comment on any threads partly because they are too busy working out how to make more money."

"I have offered to make sound files for FM11 but SI have never commented on this so im not going to bother doing it. Secondly I want them to make an official apology for selling us a dodgy faulty game which has multiple bugs on it before I make any commitment."

You come across as the kind of person people cross the street to avoid.You need to grow up and get that chip off your shoulder. FM isn't your problem; it's you. Go away and sort yourself out.

People have opinions. That is mines, it has absolutely nothing to do with growing up or sorting myself out. Im already grown up thanks. FM is the problem, the game is faulty with multiple bugs thats the problem!

I know SI have appologise for the activation problem, my post has nothing to do with that specific issue. I am also well aware they have release patches. If you had noticed the last patch was later than normal and another point is that there are still a lot of bugs going around. Way too many than normal. The amount of bugs at the beginning of the game release was ridiculous. There were near to the amount of a hundred bugs - that's one point I'm making out, the other is that there are still way too many bugs in the game. Far more than any other game I have ever played in my life.

Now answer me this - why did SI release a game with only a 50% match 3D complete? do you buy a pair of jeans that only has one leg?

TBH I don't see much wrong with the match engine in my games anyway it may be different for others.

There's no comparison between a consumer product and an entartainment one, if you know what I mean. If you go to see a movie and you don't like it you won't get a refund. Or if you buy your favourite band'd album but it's **** you can't go back to the store and demand your money back, or expect an apology. You just don't buy it again,or read more reviews the other time and then decide if you're buying it or not.

They (SI) released a demo, I thought it was OK, read the feedback from these forums and then bought the game. Of course I made a mistake as the game itself was far from what I was expecting and I end up playing FM07 again. But, hey, easy come easy go, it happens, I'll be more carefull the next time, but I don't demand an apology or something like that, cause it was my choise. By the way, I think they do listen to our complains, that's why I'm still here.

There's no comparison between a consumer product and an entartainment one, if you know what I mean. If you go to see a movie and you don't like it you won't get a refund. Or if you buy your favourite band'd album but it's **** you can't go back to the store and demand your money back, or expect an apology. You just don't buy it again,or read more reviews the other time and then decide if you're buying it or not.

They (SI) released a demo, I thought it was OK, read the feedback from these forums and then bought the game. Of course I made a mistake as the game itself was far from what I was expecting and I end up playing FM07 again. But, hey, easy come easy go, it happens, I'll be more carefull the next time, but I don't demand an apology or something like that, cause it was my choise. By the way, I think they do listen to our complains, that's why I'm still here.

Just to point out: I never said I don't like the game and I never once pointed out that if you buy something you don't like you can get a refund. I said if you buy something that is FAULTY or doesn't work properly you expect to get a refund. I do any way. I normally wait until January to buy FM but I thought id give them the benfit of the doubt. How wrong was I. Despite the new patches im still dissatisfied with the game and the bugs still present.

TBH I don't see much wrong with the match engine in my games anyway it may be different for others.

On the video on the home page SI say the 3D match is only 50% complete. Im glad you are enjoying it without seeing the bugs. I love the 3D without a doubt but those bugs are doing my head in. Anyway can you answer my question about thew pair of jeans please

I also share a lot of views with this person as do a lot of other people:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=119117

It's amazing what effect reading this board has on me. Before I knew of this message board I was blissfully unaware of 99% of the "bugs" in the game and just chose to accept a few minor glitches as part of the game. As soon as I read posts on here I am looking out for certain bugs and anomalies.

Lesson: Must spend less time listening to other people's moans!

There's no comparison between a consumer product and an entartainment one, if you know what I mean. If you go to see a movie and you don't like it you won't get a refund. Or if you buy your favourite band'd album but it's **** you can't go back to the store and demand your money back, or expect an apology. You just don't buy it again,or read more reviews the other time and then decide if you're buying it or not.

I have to agree with Jay Producer - if i bought the CD and didnt like the music, fine, i have blown my tenner. But if i bought the CD and it didnt play the music or it skip tracks etc. then I have bought a faulty product and I would be within my rights to take it back as it does not meet reasonable standards.

The game was released with many many errors and fair enough, a patch was released on the same day - but what about people that do not have access to the net. It is presumtuous to assume that all FM gamers are online.

I like the game alot and i do have access to the patches and i have not experienced any major or fatal errors, but I do agree that is you release any product to the public is should be as 'perfect' as possible. On this basis I do feel that SI let their punters down a bit.

I fail to see some of these bugs. The match engine runs smoothish for me, a bit jerky, but that is more to do with my laptops specs than anything else. I don't suffer not one game-breaking bug. Sure there are flaws, like the chances of winning an appeal really really low, but since 9.3 the game has been a really good experience for me. They didn't have the best start at release, but at the end of the day things are better.

Oh yeah, CM isn't coming out for ages yet.

I have to agree with Jay Producer - if i bought the CD and didnt like the music, fine, i have blown my tenner. But if i bought the CD and it didnt play the music or it skip tracks etc. then I have bought a faulty product and I would be within my rights to take it back as it does not meet reasonable standards.

The game was released with many many errors and fair enough, a patch was released on the same day - but what about people that do not have access to the net. It is presumtuous to assume that all FM gamers are online.

I like the game alot and i do have access to the patches and i have not experienced any major or fatal errors, but I do agree that is you release any product to the public is should be as 'perfect' as possible. On this basis I do feel that SI let their punters down a bit.

The only person who has actually understood what my point was about. Thanks.

I must say I've enjoyed the game ever since it was released.

And speaking purely for myself, thats all that matters to me.

This is how I see the game. I enjoy it and have since I received my copy. Okay so there are bugs in the game. That was the purpose of releasing the demo. So that they could get feedback and be able to fix problems that users of the forums flagged up for them.

The point from Jay Producer about people not having the net at home may be valid but in the UK all people have free access to the Internet at their local libraries. (I know this as I downloaded the 8.02 patch there for 08) so that isn't really an issue.

Anyway I enjoy the game as do most people on the forums and it is even more enjoyable since the 3rd patch was released.

Okay that's my two pennies worth.

On the video on the home page SI say the 3D match is only 50% complete.

Oh dear! That video was a promo to show the first graphics of the 3D ME. It was made long before even the demo was released, let alone the full game. Do pay attention

The match engine runs smoothish for me, a bit jerky, but that is more to do with my laptops specs than anything else.

Are you sure? Did you have any problems running the 2D last year, or the year before? Or even before 9.3? My specs other than my graphics card are pretty good and it still stutters for me, and judging by some other posts I've read lately a good few people are seeing the same problem now they are running 9.3. To me something in the latest patch clearly upset the way the match engine runs for some people.

I think overall that the game is much improved since the third patch (from reviewing the forums) and there are hardly any faults anymore and most of the major faults have been dealt with.

Just its a shame that despite SI's efforts, people still expect the game to be absolutely perfect, which is impossible, as mentioned countless times, all games will have bugs and glitches and there is not a single game out there that can be described as perfectly faultless.

You should count yourself lucky, CM have taken over a year to make their 09 game, and keep delaying and delaying, If SI did this, you would be moaning and moaning and thoroughly annoyed at the lack of a new Football Managing game.

Stevie's right I was gonna download the CM 09 Demo to try it but they haven't even released it as far as I can see. Also that game was due out last week and has been pushed back again. Hmm who would i prefer to give money too SI or Eidos. I think SI as they get the game out on time and then take on board all points given by forumites. What's up with me agreeing with a liverpool fan

Just its a shame that despite SI's efforts, people still expect the game to be absolutely perfect, which is impossible, as mentioned countless times, all games will have bugs and glitches and there is not a single game out there that can be described as perfectly faultless.

True, but is that really an acceptable excuse for problems people are having? I think 09 is good, but saying that other games have bugs too and you shouldn't expect it to be perfect, isn't really saying anything other than aim low and be impressed by a substandard product because it's better than you expected.

You should count yourself lucky, CM have taken over a year to make their 09 game, and keep delaying and delaying, If SI did this, you would be moaning and moaning and thoroughly annoyed at the lack of a new Football Managing game.

CM's plight ooks bad atm, but if it comes out and blows FM out of the water (unlikely, but possible) we'll all be saying that SI should accept people's disgruntlement in order to achieve perfection. Double edged sword tbh.

I feel very fortunate because I have never suffered any of the mentioned bugs in any versions of FM that I have played,

atleast nothing that I have noticed.

But upon purchasing the game you would have got the release day patch,

Which means you knew you were buying a product that wasn't bug free.

Same here.

To ensure the product works. If you sell a faulty product no one buys it, or if they do they wont again. If you buy a new TV that doesn't work would you be happy? Would you want to buy it again if after 3 replacements it never worked?

this is software. not a tv. they're not comparable. the games allways worked for me and its got better with each patch.

I have to agree with Jay Producer - if i bought the CD and didnt like the music, fine, i have blown my tenner. But if i bought the CD and it didnt play the music or it skip tracks etc. then I have bought a faulty product and I would be within my rights to take it back as it does not meet reasonable standards.

The game was released with many many errors and fair enough, a patch was released on the same day - but what about people that do not have access to the net. It is presumtuous to assume that all FM gamers are online.

I like the game alot and i do have access to the patches and i have not experienced any major or fatal errors, but I do agree that is you release any product to the public is should be as 'perfect' as possible. On this basis I do feel that SI let their punters down a bit.

it is presumtous to presum that every one is online. but not presumtous to presume that the vast majority have access to the internet. or magazines that hold patches.

very few pc games players are ignorant to the fact that patches exist.

also its important to note that back when cm2/cm3 was released i didn't know about half the bugs and i dont think i ever patched it. but i was happy with it. then later i hear that there was problems with it.

but i agree that it should be as perfect as possible. and i'm pretty sure thats SIs goal. to be as perfect as possible.

First day of business school: What is the first priority of any company?

Make money.

Not the A level business studies course I attended which clearly informed me that the first priority of a company is to provide a services. If they do this at a price that's reasonable and a quality that's satisfactory, the money will follow.

To be fair, I don't find a lot wrong with FM09. It's not perfect but that's what patches are for. I'll stick with it and probably keep getting the games in the series because I like them and they entertain me. That's all I'm after.

a company is genrally set up to make money. to make money they need to provide a good service. i suppose its a chicken and egg scenario.

is your first priority the money? in which case the best way to get it is to give a good service.

of is your first priority the service? in which case the money will follow. hopefully.

What is a "bug"?

Half-complete 3D? Empty stands and a few generic stadiums? Lack of collision detection off-pitch? Who cares. The action is on-pitch. And aside from a few animation issues, it's a very good first shot, IMO.

I've not seen anything that stops the gameplay. I've heard of a couple things that did...Italy C, Spain lower leagues...but I don't play in those countries, so they didn't effect me. What did effect me was the Winter Freeze. Anyway, they were all patched up.

So, I don't see any bugs. There's several places in the game that diverge from reality, but they are not bugs. A bug prevents the game from being played in a normal fashion. If you don't like these reality divergences, feel free to point them out, and if they weren't intentionally made for the sake of gameplay, they will be added and prioritized into a list of things they would like to fix (e.g. make more real). What's the big deal? You seem to want a game that matches reality from the off...Did you think you were going to get it? Or that that isn't SI's ultimate goal?

Not the A level business studies course I attended which clearly informed me that the first priority of a company is to provide a services. If they do this at a price that's reasonable and a quality that's satisfactory, the money will follow.

At the business school I attended they taught us the main objective of any company is continuity.

I agree with the OP to a certain point. I believe that SI should not send out a game that doesnt work properly. I couldnt care less about how many games have bugs. I bought this game and when i hand my money over i expect to be getting a game. I dont expect to have to download things to fix it, put up with all the problems or struggle to enjoy the game because of all the bugs.

I can understand having to go and download extra's. However when you need to download something for the game to work on a basic level, this is unacceptable.

However, the constant rants occuring everyday are not needed. I can understand people wanting to vent their frustration but all the things said have been said before and will know doubt be said again.

My current situation is that i had to download the latest patch to get the game to work. Like i have said above i totally disagree with this as there are some people who dont have the internet, etc. But i had to do it and i was in a fortunate enough position to be able to do it. I am currently enjoying the game and i will be purchasing FM10 but i can understand when people grow frustrated with a game that wasnt finished when released.

Alas, a majority of people who don't have internet, would not be on these forums, and I know a few people (including myself) who never noticed or recognised any bugs until they started posting on the forums.

I have gone back to 08, and I was previously happy with it, I knew nothing of bugs, but playing it again, post-forum,I am noticing bugs and what not.

You cannot suggest that people who lack internet are unhappy with the game.

I am suggesting that the people who do not have the internet cannot patch the game and therefore are left with a game that is full of bugs.

I am suggesting that the people who do not have the internet cannot patch the game and therefore are left with a game that is full of bugs.

I know that, but unless those people are familiar with bugs they will not actually spot them, unless it is really unusual.

I found bugs without looking on the forums. The first being that i couldnt see the clubs information page and i got the blue screen of death.

I agree that the forums will alert people to all types of bugs that they may not have been aware of had they not looked on here. However the bugs that i encountered were ones that i stumbled upon rather than ones i was looking for.

The patch was good for me and, touch wood, i have had no problems since being patched up.

I found bugs without looking on the forums. The first being that i couldnt see the clubs information page and i got the blue screen of death.

I agree that the forums will alert people to all types of bugs that they may not have been aware of had they not looked on here. However the bugs that i encountered were ones that i stumbled upon rather than ones i was looking for.

The patch was good for me and, touch wood, i have had no problems since being patched up.

My first thought would be that these were problems with your computer, rather than a bug.

If this is really the worst game you have ever played then this doesnt qulaify you a lot to critize this game, play games of other companies, come back and apologize. Seriously FM has its flaws, but compared to the average game it is very good and the patches always try to and mostly achieve to give you a almost perfectly playable game. I think criticizing SI for bugs in the game is alright, but this one os over the top, its not perfect but damn near. TBH is think the main problem of FM at the moment isnt the bugs , but its complexity and hard to get into overall concept. This is made worse by the interface that has reached its limit, because of all the features added since it was first introduced. So i really wouldnt mind FM 2010 getting a cosmetic overhaul, even if i am not a fan of looks and easy acces first and think the depth of FM is its main strenght.

Are you sure? Did you have any problems running the 2D last year, or the year before? Or even before 9.3? My specs other than my graphics card are pretty good and it still stutters for me, and judging by some other posts I've read lately a good few people are seeing the same problem now they are running 9.3. To me something in the latest patch clearly upset the way the match engine runs for some people.

Well 08 I was playing on basically an ancient pc, so I played commentary only.

09 I have been getting a jerky game throughout, although from patch to patch it has improved slightly.

Using a laptop, so graphics specs weren't expected to be great.

My first thought would be that these were problems with your computer, rather than a bug.

Yeah, that's not a bug, it's a hardware compatibility issue. My guess is it was fixed when you updated your direct x, java and graphics card drivers?

To ensure the product works. If you sell a faulty product no one buys it, or if they do they wont again. If you buy a new TV that doesn't work would you be happy? Would you want to buy it again if after 3 replacements it never worked?

Incorrect. You can have the best product in the world and if you are losing money your business will fail. See: Beta Max; Apple Lisa

A lot more factors go into decisions for patches, replacements or major recalls.

For example: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

You're issue, unfortunately, is in the minority. A game designer has to create for some kind of standard amid the myriad of hardware confgurations. Some may be overlooked with hopes to fix it in the future... costs permitting.

this is software. not a tv. they're not comparable. the games allways worked for me and its got better with each patch.

Yes they are comparable. Why? because they are both PRODUCTS! I expect what I pay for with my hard earned cash to be working.

this is software. not a tv. they're not comparable. the games allways worked for me and its got better with each patch.

Incorrect. You can have the best product in the world and if you are losing money your business will fail. See: Beta Max; Apple Lisa

A lot more factors go into decisions for patches, replacements or major recalls.

For example: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

You're issue, unfortunately, is in the minority. A game designer has to create for some kind of standard amid the myriad of hardware confgurations. Some may be overlooked with hopes to fix it in the future... costs permitting.

You haven't answered the question and completely went around it. Its a closed question with a yes or no answer. So buying a product that is not 100% fully working puts me in the minority bracket? No it doesn't.

It's amazing what effect reading this board has on me. Before I knew of this message board I was blissfully unaware of 99% of the "bugs" in the game and just chose to accept a few minor glitches as part of the game. As soon as I read posts on here I am looking out for certain bugs and anomalies.

Lesson: Must spend less time listening to other people's moans!

Tell me about it.

FM07 - Wasn't signed up here, didn't notice many bugs, the odd one, but wouldn't have cared tbh.

Since then - signed up and now i notice bugs left right and centre???

Coincidence...

So you've never played an sort of game before, in which I glitch or a bug hasn't existed?

The biggest flaw of FM09 was the decision by SI to advertise a complex strategy title to a causal player market. Now they are reaping the maelstrom.

JP the problem is you're trying to compare a TV and a Piece of software. Nowadays with Online gaming on consoles Etc 90% of game software for no matter what format are released with bugs which are then fixed by patches.

A T.V is a totally different thing to a piece of software. A company making a T.V can't say oh that's all right we'll patch it later can they. I'm not saying it's right but companies like SI work damn hard on their games to get them out for the release date. They may have bugs in them but at least they are released. This is why Demo versions of games are released to consumers such as you and I and everyone else on the forums who then give SI feedback on any bugs that they have found while playing I.E the injury bug.

Also one last thing and maybe I'm being pedantic but the title of the thread is slightly misleading as you're saying it's the biggest flaw of FM while not really pointing out a flaw but having a go at SI really.

Everyone seems to be going around my main topic and instead creating their own arguments. So can everyone please answer these two very simple questions, it requires a yes or no answer:

1) Would you go into a shop and purchase a pair of jeans with one leg and half a bottom end?

2) Would you accept a broken or faulty product if you purchased one? An example is this, if you go into a shop and buy a pair of jeans and after one day the threads start to come away from the linen. After only 3-days you realise that one leg has completely come away and is exposed. Do you just accept that and move on or do you go back to the shop and complain and ask for a refund or a new product that works.

Two simple yes or no questions. That way its easier to get your answer down instead of everyone over complicating the OP.

My point was about me purchasing a product that doesn't fully work properly. That's the main point. And whilst I have pointed out if you read my OP no game is perfect but FM is full of bugs and still is (the forum is evident of that). I posted up a bug and no one responded from SI - so am I supposed to take them serious? no.

Those not familiar with business: If you cant get a product that doesn't work you won't sell it. Or if you do sell it through the companies ego it has and popularity you will create a very angry database of customers who wont come back and buy the product again. Fact not fiction. Yes businesses want to make money but first and foremost the product needs to be good. FM09 is not good for the amount of bugs it has and yes I know they have released patches, but this for me personally is not good enough. They should be aiming to originally release the game near perfect first time, they failed. I make music for games so I know they have bugs to begin with so please don't lecture me on this, but I also know when the game is released there are little known bugs. The amount of bugs in FM09 was huge, no question and no denying this. We had to wait until the 3rd patch to have a fairly satisfying game to play. That for me is unacceptable.

From the comments people have made it comes across as though you all agree (apart from one) that buying a faulty product is completely acceptable so long as you get a fix for it 4-months or so down the line. If a TV company, clothing store or whatever told me that I would have to wait 4-months or longer to have an item fixed I would ask for my money back. There are laws in business protecting the consumer from purchasing faulty goods, SI no doubt have to comply with the same laws.

http://www.consumerrightsexpert.co.uk/FaultyGoods.html